Folding Bikes - Birdy Rohloff...now? Or wait for the new Rohloff speedhub (2009!)

Hi, I am bikeless at the moment, and need to get a replacement. I loved the ride on the Birdy Rohloff and it seems ideal for an all round leisure, commuting and fun bike. Plus I wanted a bike I could enjoy a fully upright position on.

However, I've been reading about this new Rohloff hub which is going to have a range of up to 580% (not so important since I'm not planning on going up any mountains!) and is 20% lighter and smaller (important for commuting in London and fitting it into the tube during rush hour).

Any advice on whether I should wait till the new hub is out or go ahead with this one if my next test ride (this time with the comfort to stem and hopefully the Rohloff)? I am going to be adding the rack and marathon plus tyres which is going to make it heavy enough as it is (not to mention 10kg backpack with water, food etc).

Thanks for any advice. I will probably be spending the next 10 months paying for this bike, but it's my graduation present to myself :)

Last I read, this so called 2008 Rohloff hub is only due to begin testing in 2009 so who knows when it will be out for general purchase. Also, at least the current rohloff hub is tried and tested for its quality, durability etc.

Thanks

Last I read, this so called 2008 Rohloff hub is only due to begin testing in 2009 so who knows when it will be out for general purchase. Also, at least the current rohloff hub is tried and tested for its quality, durability etc.

Thanks

Answered your own question there! Taking on a brand new product could mean you risk teething problems. Also given that you aren't exactly going for weight saving on the other components, the 20% saving isn't such an issue for you. The current gearing range of the Rohloff should prove more than sufficient for your needs. Marathon pluses are very good tyres and almost bomb-proof if fitted properly. Best to get Schwalbe tubes too.

Thanks for the quick reply. I just wanted to be sure since I'm not really an expert on biking technology. Nwo, the only issue I have is since this is my first folder, and from reading posts such as that on the "why are folding bikes so slow" thread where mrbrown wrote:


In addition, there is the safety issue where a foldie can decide to fold up on you while you are going 30mph downhill. I read somewhere it happened to some dude and not only did the folding bike fold up while he was riding, the sparks from the friction ignited the flammable liquid used to lubricate such bikes and the whole thing exploded into a ball of fire and sulphur.

Should I be worried thinking I am spending £2000+ on something which is probably going to let me down one day and cause me injury?

Thanks for the quick reply. I just wanted to be sure since I'm not really an expert on biking technology. Nwo, the only issue I have is since this is my first folder, and from reading posts such as that on the "why are folding bikes so slow" thread where mrbrown wrote:



Should I be worried thinking I am spending £2000+ on something which is probably going to let me down one day and cause me injury?

Nothing to worry about. If that is even true, it's a freak accident. Plenty of full sized bikes have serious accidents where frames crack etc. That extract is really a load of codswallop to be honest :D

Haha you are kidding :roflmao2:
No serious, if you havent been aware - this post you read, about security was just joking around.

But to your question:
Since you are without bike/Folder: Buy a Folder now!
don't buy a Birdy!
Buy a different folder now, one that is not made for going with the Rohloff so well like the Birdy.

Why?
You don't have to make that difficult decision about the hub now.
You can wait for your Birdy with new Rohloff hub until others have matured it.
You start with a simpler chick and see how folding is and what you really need.
You have a spare later
You will end up with a bunch of different folders anyway.
You will finally have a folder and regret whole "without folder life" - better stop that ill status soon.

The Birdy is an excellent Folder which makes very good sense with a Rohloff. So in principle that's a good idea to go for. And to the new Rohloff being not only lighter (which is good not only because of the overall weight savings but having so much weight at the rear which can be a hassle while folding/folded and going uphill) but also smaller in diameter and in width makes a lot more sense for a folder as it will help stabilize wheels/the short spokesline and also with (other folders like Brompton) with narrow rears than the actual Rohloff.

Haha you are kidding :roflmao2:
No serious, if you havent been aware - this post you read, was just joking around.

But to your question:
Since you are without bike/Folder: Buy a Folder now!
don't buy a Birdy!
Buy a different folder now, one that is not made for going with the Rohloff so well like the Birdy.

Why?
You don't have to make that difficult decision about the hub now.
You can wait for your Birdy with new Rohloff hub until others have matured it.
You start with a simpler chick and see how folding is and what you really need.
You have a spare later
You will end up with a bunch of different folders anyway.
You will finally have a folder and regret whole "without folder life" - better stop that ill status soon.

The Birdy is an excellent Folder which makes very good sense with a Rohloff. So in principle that's a good idea to go for. And to the new Rohloff being not only lighter (which is good not only because of the overall weight savings but having so much weight at the rear which can be a hassle while folding/folded and going uphill) but also smaller in diameter in width makes a lot more sense for a folder as it will help stabilize wheels/the short spokesline and also with (other folders like Brompton) with narrow rears than the actual Rohloff.

Beat me to it.

I would get a cheap folder for the time being. Even when you eventually get your $3K (US) Birdy in the future, there will be times when a cheap one will come in handy.

Thanks for the quick reply. I just wanted to be sure since I'm not really an expert on biking technology. Nwo, the only issue I have is since this is my first folder, and from reading posts such as that on the "why are folding bikes so slow" thread where mrbrown wrote:



Should I be worried thinking I am spending £2000+ on something which is probably going to let me down one day and cause me injury?


The Birdy doesn't have a folding frame. That's part of its beauty; the more weight you put on it, the tighter the joints.

Why not get one with a Nexus 7 if you are not climbing any mountains?

Why not get one with a Nexus 7 if you are not climbing any mountains?

Because the Rohloff seems to be the best one in terms of long term reliability and maintenance free attributes. Is there any performance loss in using the Rohloff to NOT climb mountains?

My lifestyle at present is pretty fixed so I don't see the need to have 2 bikes. I need a bike to get around within a 3-5mile radius for leisure/socializing/shops/work etc.

I need to be able to cycle up to 7 miles to the tube station, pack it in during rush hour, and cycle a few more miles at the other end. Reverse journey, I wanted a fast, easy bike since I don't have much stamina and generally feel wasted at the end of the day (I was ill a couple of years ago, it's left me pretty underweight and I can't seem to build myself back up. I've only just stabalised my weight.) That in mind, I suppose I wanted a "fun" bike to enthuse me into cycling back alertly, and also with the option of packing on the tube on days when I feel exhausted or need to attend an evening course (a random course I find fascinating which will never help my employment prospects!) at a university in central london since I finish that at like 8.30pm.
Incidentally I am still looking for a job in central london! I still work within a 5mile radius as I did before graduating.

Also, I wanted a bike which allowed me to sit perfectly upright (back/neck issues from car accident a few years ago) and to offset the fact that this means that all the bumps etc are transmitted directly into the spine, I suppose I needed suspension.

Birdy seems to fit the bill on all accounts. I suppose I could go with the touring model. I've mentioned my (amateur) reasons for so far preferring the Rohloff hub though.

Still somnatash does make a compelling and humorous post. lol. I was told by my LBS that is might actually cost more to fit the Rohloff later on though (once labour is taken into account).

Hi thewatcher.



Did you take a look at the Birdy City with the very nice Shimano Nexus hub? It's literally half the price and fulfils all your needs including the excellent Birdy frame and suspension. This gives you 8 well spaced gears, more than enough in my opinion. The Rohloff hub is very nice indeed but designed for longer journeys and a wider variety of terrain that you are using currently. It might prove to be an expensive luxury you never use fully.

If you have the time I highly recommend a little trip down to Bath to Avon Valley Cyclery (www.foldingbikes.co.uk (http://www.foldingbikes.co.uk)). They are right behind bath station and exceptionally helpful staff. They also carry a lot of Birdys in stock as well. Bike Friday and Birdy are close contenders for your needs They also stock the 24 speed Bike Friday Tikit which has nice suspension and an ideal fold for your commute-and go needs. I'd have recommended the Brompton which I use but not in terms of suspension and front vibrations on rougher London roads. I'd also have recommended the excellent Dahon Jetstream P8 but it doesn't have the hub gears you prefer. I'm a big fan of hubs myself, especially for commuting purposes.

Her advise is good on the fact that the new Birdy hub will be perhaps worth waiting for but not to be a Guinea pig yourself for the initial launch.

Because the Rohloff seems to be the best one in terms of long term reliability and maintenance free attributes. Is there any performance loss in using the Rohloff to NOT climb mountains?

Hi again,
I can see you are somehow booked on the Rohloff Birdy and if thats where your heart is, its probably the way to go...but I am still not convinced that this is the best solution. The Rohloff is perfect for long distance touring and mountains. And yes, Rohloff has a good long term reliability (120.000 km - how much time will you need to cycle that?) and is mostly maintenance free. I feel it might be a bit overkill for your intended city use and as a newbie to cycling. If you don't need to go many mountains there are lighter hub solutions, so that can be regarded as a performance loss in using the heavier Rohloff.


My lifestyle at present is pretty fixed so I don't see the need to have 2 bikes. I need a bike to get around within a 3-5mile radius for leisure/socializing/shops/work etc.

I take it that you are not keen on doing much maintenance yourself? Well, sooner or later there will be the need to fix something broken on the bike. That is when the spare folder comes into play. You are free to leave your folder at the lbs or fix it at the weekend and still be able to cycle.


I need to be able to cycle up to 7 miles to the tube station, pack it in during rush hour, and cycle a few more miles at the other end. Reverse journey, I wanted a fast, easy bike since I don't have much stamina and generally feel wasted at the end of the day...

tube rush hour and daily/frequent packing - hmhm - that is a challenge for any folder! While the "7 miles" you speak of is a walkover for any folder. The birdy has a reasonable small fold but it is not so very tiny. In fact if you happen to carry it around a lot and say, you are not the strongest then the birdy might feel actually quite clumsy. You want an easy bike? There are other bikes which are more "easy" to lug around which can do the 7 miles fast enough. You are in London? Why not go for the nearest possibility and still the champ in multi-modal travel - the brompton? (mulleady is right you would probably have to upgrade it with suspension) Or a lightweight dahon? Perhaps even CarryMe? Yes rear suspension would be fine in your case. A thudbuster or big apple tires can do that for you.
Anyway, keep us informed about the decision process :-)
Somna

Mulleady your brommi still lacks suspension? Shame on you lazy fellow!

The 6 speed Brompton is a wonderful bike but cannot be judged on one test ride. The Brompton is partly hub (3 speed) aided by a 2 speed non-hub gearing.

If you like hubs it might be worth speaking to Sammyboy from Velochocolate as the 8 speed Downtube Mini 2009 is a very compact bike with front suspension and hub gearing. You just need to add mudguards in a wet place like London! See the excellent review:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=218634&highlight=review+downtube+mini

Here is my thought process thus far.

With respect to weight, this is what one LBS (well not too far a commute for me) site writes (r&m site spec in brackets):

Birdy Light : 11.3kg (10.9kg)
Birdy City : 11.7kg (11.9kg = city, 11.7kg = city premium)
Birdy Touring: 11.7kg (11.8kg)
Birdy Speed: 10.4kg (10.3kg)
Birdy Rohloff 11.3kg (11.6kg)

Looking at those values, and considering:
1) I only weight 50kg myself (male here) and am on a mission to gain weight anyway
2) I pack my bag with glass bottles of water, metal thermos food flasks, flask with tea, glass jars of snacks (nuts/seeds) when I go to work etc anyway approx 7-10kg

I don't see much benefit in weight, except maybe a heavier model might help to toughen me up from lugging it around. I could do with some upper body strength development anyway.

I could go with the city or touring model but in both instances I would actually then be going with a heavier model than th Rohloff. Also, I am thinking that perhaps it is prudent to either upgrade later on to the new Rohloff or purchase a new one. Does Anyone know of any reason why the new rohloff hub would not fit on current Birdy frames? Or will it definitely fit without too much modification being needed?


One thing putting me off Bromptons etc is that for now, this will be my main bike for everything, not just commuting, and I did enjoy the ride on my old hybrid, so I want a performance machine that folds rather than a small folding package which rides.

However, I know realistically that a 20" model like the airnimal joey will not be suitable for commuting when I do find a job requiring it.

I suppose ideally I would have a moulton tsr30 for local commuting (pending a test ride!) and a birdy with the new rohloff hub for commuting into and around the city. In theory those two should last for at least a decade.

If you can easily afford a Birdy Rohloff then by all means go for it. These hubs are already so good it's not super necessary to wait for an upgrade which may be some years away before it reaches the Birdy line. You will have a bike that can tackle anything at all. Just be warned: If you leave it outside it will get stolen before you can say 'lock'. Cuff it to your arm.

If you can easily afford a Birdy Rohloff then by all means go for it. These hubs are already so good it's not super necessary to wait for an upgrade which may be some years away before it reaches the Birdy line. You will have a bike that can tackle anything at all. Just be warned: If you leave it outside it will get stolen before you can say 'lock'. Cuff it to your arm.

If I were taking it somewhere where I need to lock it, I would use my thatcham approved on guard beast chain. If it's approved for motorcycles by the insurance companies, I am sure it will be suitable for a bicycle.
Also, what about this info from earlier?:


And to the new Rohloff being not only lighter (which is good not only because of the overall weight savings but having so much weight at the rear which can be a hassle while folding/folded and going uphill) but also smaller in diameter in width makes a lot more sense for a folder as it will help stabilize wheels/the short spokesline and also with (other folders like Brompton) with narrow rears than the actual Rohloff.I wonder what the resale value is like for the current Rohloff hubs if they only do a few hundred miles a yr? I suppose I could always sell the hub in 3-4years and upgrade then?

I wouldn't say I can easily afford it. However, I did want something huge after being stuck for 6 years studying for my degree. I'm pretty frugal in terms of some luxuries in that I don't:
own a car, eat out, party, smoke, drink, get high, go to movies (or watch tv) etc. I got a pretty simple diet whereby spending £4 on mung beans and rice will feed me for 2 weeks.
I am going to be charging this bike to a credit card which I have 10months interest free on.
You say that the new Rohloff hub won't make it to the Birdy range for a while (perhaps). However, what about me just fitting it later on to a current model?

Don't forget Dahons. Unless you have a dislike of derailleur gears, there are several models that could suit you well, and save you an arm and a leg. You could import an '08 Jetstream XP (a good match if not better than the Birdy in many respects, not available in UK sadly), have a Mu SL as a (very) high speed runabout, and still have change compared to the Birdy Rohloff. And the Airnimal Joey has 24" wheels, not 20".
I'd rather spend time exercise by riding on the bike rather than carrying it, personally (only 59 kg myself).
Don't confuse wheel size with folded size- the two do not necessarily match up, and ease of folding is important too.
Rohloff is most definitely an aftermarket-fit option as well.

thewatcher

If you do buy a Birdy Rohloff and budget is not an issue go for it seriously, Jur is right. Don't choose it over the city though as the weight difference is negligible being 0.5kg at the most. I agree the Brompton would not be as good a multi-purpose bike as good as it is.

One word of advice though and I don't mean to be pessimistic. If you lock such a bike outside in London and many urban areas of the UK, it will get stolen eventually. Some professional thieves would even steal to order. Did you see the documentary 'Gone in 60 seconds'? Of course I'm sure you would insure such a beauty but it's the hassle even if you were compensated and the high probability of it being such a thief magnet if locked outside on a regular basis.

Had you a Birdy dealer in mind yet?

Hi Mulleady. I have been using the dealers page on the R&M site and have pretty much decided on bixfix. For me to get there in case of any problems it's the quickest (I live in zone 6). Not exactly local, but the quickest and cheapest (in terms of travel cost) one for me to get to out of all the dealers listed on the manufacturers site. I also had my test ride at their shop and staff seemed knowledgeable and helpful.

I've spoken to my Dad about getting it added to the house insurance. It's cheaper than getting a specific policy just for the bike. Only downside is the excess I would have to pay for a claim (hopefully on £50 though). I don't plan on letting it out of my sight though...most the time. The only time I would leave it locked is round my town as opposed to central London.

Do professional bike thieves really operate like the car thieves in gone in 60 secs? Complete with scoping out bikes beforehand etc. Pretty scary!

Just in case I do go the cheaper option, any benefits in the touring over the city model? (considering the extra £100)

Edit: By the way, thanks to everyone for taking to time to read my overly verbose posts and reply back with some really sound advice. I have pretty much set my mind on a Birdy due to the fit and comfort as well as the overall build quality /performance etc.

Now I just need to work out a pros and cons for the city vs the touring vs the Rohloff models.
I already know the £1000 extra con for the rohloff! Weight is pretty small between the 3 (0.4kg = less than 5% difference in weight).

With respect to derailleur gears, I am just somewhat apprehensive about it about it being damaged due to how low the bike is and if it hits a curb or something.

Don't forget Dahons. Unless you have a dislike of derailleur gears, there are several models that could suit you well, and save you an arm and a leg. You could import an '08 Jetstream XP (a good match if not better than the Birdy in many respects, not available in UK sadly), have a Mu SL as a (very) high speed runabout, and still have change compared to the Birdy Rohloff. And the Airnimal Joey has 24" wheels, not 20".
I'd rather spend time exercise by riding on the bike rather than carrying it, personally (only 59 kg myself).
Don't confuse wheel size with folded size- the two do not necessarily match up, and ease of folding is important too.
Rohloff is most definitely an aftermarket-fit option as well.

I don't think he wants the bike to fall apart under him. ;-) There is value in quality as well!

I have waaay over 10,000 miles on my Birdy (odometer has been broken for a while) and it hasn't complained a bit. My friend's Dahon Jetstream XP is on it's 7th (no joke) hinge, has had 10 or so spokes replaced (not cheap in those imitation Rolf wheels), and creaks like hell. Moreover, he only weighs about 130 pounds or so and is in his 60s.

I am over 180 pounds and do a fair amount of off road touring on my Birdy. I would never do that on a Dahon, not even one with suspension.

My old Mu Sl was lighter, but my Birdy is nonetheless faster, thanks to the quality of NYC streets.

There is a lot to be said for German engineering, I suppose. I would just go for the current model.

There is a lot to be said for German engineering, I suppose. I would just go for the current model.

You mean I should pick the current Birdy Rohloff rather than going with the touring/city model and upgrading/retrofitting when the new Rohloff is available?

There is a lot to be said for German engineering, I suppose. I would just go for the current model. Is it wise to trust the Germans? I have just received a strange looking 16" wheel in the post from the Ruhr district in Germany! :P (Joke!)

No +1 tom pm124's comments above to some extent. I've test ridden a Birdy and it appears to have longevity built into it, a bit like the Brompton really. Not as good a fold of couse but a much better all-purpose bike. I'd never use a Brompton off-road or on canal towpaths for instance. Also thewatcher you make a good point that this the Birdy an excellent compromise if you are going to own one folder. I believe the Birdy Touring is simply the Birdy with a 24 speed derailleur system on it. The Birdy City sports the Shimano Nexus 8 speed hub and it's a pretty good one. Would more than suffice for your needs. The Rohloff is a great gearing system but I suspect you really don't need it. You would ahve the change left to buy a Brompton as well for commute and go needs!

Yes thieves do steal to order as well as having surprising knowledge of what makes a quick and big killing on Gumtree or down Brick Lane. Wise not to let it out of your sight. My Brompton never leaves my side.

Is there some difference in the highest gear of the rohloff vs nexus vs 24 speed derailleur? I read somewhere that the rohloff goes over 100" (range: 20.4" to 110.5 ") for the gearing inches which would make it really fast? In terms of being able to maximise the use of my muscles for straights.

The only cyclist in my family is still adamant that folding bikes are primarily used by people for driving up to the congestion charge zone, pulling it out the trunk/boot and the cycling around london rather than taking them on the tube during rush hour. He is still pushing me to purchase a decent hybrid and bike it all the way into London (12-18miles depending on location). I am still fixated on folders, and especially a performance one so I have the option of a mix of public transport and cycling to save money and the option of experimenting with the commute the entire distance from time to time.
I don't see it happening too often as I do feel dead after work and don't fancy 90mins of cycling...would probably lead to a dip in awareness which could be dangerous whilst cycling. By the way, foldingbikes.com is £250 cheaper than the dealer I mentioned earlier plus their accessories are all £10 or so cheaper (mudguards, expedition rack, slip on cover....). In all I stand to save nearly £300 if I purchase it from them :)

I suppose the reason I favour either the 24 speed derailleur (I gather it's a mix of the two systems, hub and derailleur) or the rohloff over the 8 speed hub is because I have always ridden mountain and then hybrid bikes so am used to at least 18 gears.

To Rohloffs and Theft: don't be surprised to find your little birdy be an involuntary heart donor

To Rohloffs and Theft: don't be surprised to find your little birdy be an involuntary heart donor

and heartbreaker!

I live 19 miles outside London. I'm pretty fit and cycling mad and I wouldn't fancy doing this every day! I advise commute and go. Having said that the Birdy is well capable of this mileage.

One quick question. I imagine that the Rohloff birdies aren't purchased that often. If i placed an order online which is delivered in 24hours, how do I know the dealer isn't sending me one they've had sitting in the warehouse for a couple of years...e.g. the 2006 models which had problems with the handlebar stem breaking....(paranoid i know!)

I suppose this is where ordering from the shop and paying £200 more but knowing they are getting it from their supplier (r&m in UK i imagine) brand new is better even if it takes 2-4 weeks. On the upside, they were willing to throw in £100 worth of extras free so far (rack, mudguards etc) and perhaps with some more pushing I can close the gap further.


I live 19 miles outside London. I'm pretty fit and cycling mad and I wouldn't fancy doing this every day! I advise commute and go. Having said that the Birdy is well capable of this mileage.

misincredible cycles 50miles a day on her birdy for her daily commute! That being said, there is no way my commute will be as scenic as hers seems. Instead I can enjoy "a roads", extreme pollution and jam packed streets.

The new Rohloff hub will have the same number of gears [14] as the current one which means the gears will be spaced further apart. If you are only riding in town you won't be using the full gear range of a Rohloff to begin with so a wider gear spacing won't be beneficial.

A lighter hub would be nice, but Rohloff has said they won't warranty the new hub for really hardcore uses and it won't have the same lifespan as the existing hub.

All in all I'm not particularly excited about the new hub and since Rohloff hasn't announced any official release date for the new hub I won't be holding my breathe until it comes out.

While a Rohloff hub doesn't require as much maintenance as a derailleur drivetrain there are still some things that must be done - such as:

- clean/lube chain
- replace chain when worn out [you can flip the whole chainring/chain/cog over and use it again]
- adjust/replace shifter cables
- replace oil in hub every 5000kms

Also keep in mind that if your derailleur bike has issues you can take it to any bike shop for a fix. If your Rohloff hub needs servicing/adjustment you'll have to find a bike shop that is familiar with them. Where I live there are no LBS that are Rohloff savvy so I have to figure things out myself.

Thanks Vik. Nice to see a current Rohloff users thoughts on the new version.

Living in London, I am pretty sure I will be able to find someone who has a working knowledge of the Rohloff hub, although it sounds like your situation will probably be useful in making one more self reliant and aware of how to service/maintain their ride. I can barely mend a puncture, sometimes damaging 2-3 tubes in the process!

Plenty in London just make sure Bikefix service hubs too. If not Velorution do just off Oxford street.

Birdy Light : 11.3kg (10.9kg)
Birdy City : 11.7kg (11.9kg = city, 11.7kg = city premium)
Birdy Touring: 11.7kg (11.8kg)
Birdy Speed: 10.4kg (10.3kg)
Birdy Rohloff 11.3kg (11.6kg)

Anybody else find this hard to believe? Although I guess other components could change to compensate for the Rohloff's weight.

We all have different preferences. My own anecdotal experience is that many utility cyclists find a second "junker" bike pretty useful. But there is no sin in going your own way.

Good luck! :)

I don't think he wants the bike to fall apart under him. ;-) There is value in quality as well!

I have waaay over 10,000 miles on my Birdy (odometer has been broken for a while) and it hasn't complained a bit. My friend's Dahon Jetstream XP is on it's 7th (no joke) hinge, has had 10 or so spokes replaced (not cheap in those imitation Rolf wheels), and creaks like hell. Moreover, he only weighs about 130 pounds or so and is in his 60s.

I am over 180 pounds and do a fair amount of off road touring on my Birdy. I would never do that on a Dahon, not even one with suspension.

My old Mu Sl was lighter, but my Birdy is nonetheless faster, thanks to the quality of NYC streets.

There is a lot to be said for German engineering, I suppose. I would just go for the current model.
You really don't like Dahon, do you? I can understand that, your friend has my sympathy. Neither you or I can say whether his bad experience of the model, or my good one, are typical. Unhappy owners tend to make more noise about it (and quite right too!). My XP creaks a bit, but no bother otherwise, ditto its genuine Rolf front wheel. It doesn't mind the odd bit of off-roading- it's done farm tracks no bother. It's had plenty of use- previous owner was doing 60 miles plus a week for two years, I've put another 500 or so on already. If I wasn't happy with it, I wouldn't just have bought another Dahon or be spending money upgrading and servicing it, that's for sure.
And you mention German engineering: well, Birdys are made in Taiwan (like my XP), and the new XP has suspension by German-A. And Schwalbe tyres :)
I'm not having a go at Birdy, btw- excellent bikes, I'm sure I'd be happy with one and sure watcher will be if he gets one.

Anybody else find this hard to believe? Although I guess other components could change to compensate for the Rohloff's weight.

We all have different preferences. My own anecdotal experience is that many utility cyclists find a second "junker" bike pretty useful. But there is no sin in going your own way.

Good luck! :)

I can probably get my old claud-butler urban 400 moded for me to use upright (stem extension & cruiser handlebars), put in a spring bound seat (to make up for lack of rear suspension which is useful for a fully upright seating), replace the gears before they go altogether and change the front tyre. Then it will be a "junker" which is good as a backup. However, I don't fancy it being my main "chick" so I would rather get a bike that fits right and rides amazingly to fit that role :)

Having said that, when I used to get punctures or my bike was out of use, I would normally just use public transports and/or a lift from someone in the house (3 other drivers here) and didn't need a 2nd bike. Space is a premium in our garage

You really don't like Dahon, do you? I can understand that, your friend has my sympathy. Neither you or I can say whether his bad experience of the model, or my good one, are typical. Unhappy owners tend to make more noise about it (and quite right too!). My XP creaks a bit, but no bother otherwise, ditto its genuine Rolf front wheel. It doesn't mind the odd bit of off-roading- it's done farm tracks no bother. It's had plenty of use- previous owner was doing 60 miles plus a week for two years, I've put another 500 or so on already. If I wasn't happy with it, I wouldn't just have bought another Dahon or be spending money upgrading and servicing it, that's for sure.
And you mention German engineering: well, Birdys are made in Taiwan (like my XP), and the new XP has suspension by German-A. And Schwalbe tyres :)
I'm not having a go at Birdy, btw- excellent bikes, I'm sure I'd be happy with one and sure watcher will be if he gets one.

I like their component selection (and marketing) a lot. They sell a lot of bikes, so perhaps that explains the frequency of grumbling one hears. Would be nice to see them make one without a frame hinge.

Rattling on a bike is almost always fine. But creaking is scary...it's usually an indicator of metal fatigue.

BTW, anyone notice that they changed out the frame on the magnesium XXV model? They are all aluminum now.

I like their component selection (and marketing) a lot. They sell a lot of bikes, so perhaps that explains the frequency of grumbling one hears. Would be nice to see them make one without a frame hinge.

Rattling on a bike is almost always fine. But creaking is scary...it's usually an indicator of metal fatigue.

BTW, anyone notice that they changed out the frame on the magnesium XXV model? They are all aluminum now.

Captain Spalding's XP creaks as well- I think it's the carbon handlebar, he reckons it's the break in the frame. But his bike and mine are fine, so I'm not too worried about it. Thor confirmed the XXV's aluminium now over on the dahon.com forums. Some guy said he wouldn't buy one because it wasn't magnesium any more.....each to their own.

They also stock the 24 speed Bike Friday Tikit which has nice suspension and an ideal fold for your commute-and go needs.


The Tikit does not have any suspension.

I've ordered my Blue birdy rohloff. should be here tomorrow. Still not sure if I should have gotten black (covers the scratches, less eye catchy so less likely to be stolen?) but figured that the visibility with the blue will be better (positive side of the eye catchiness of it...especially when approaching roundabouts I hope).

Now to find a better paying job, I've only got 10 months to pay for this bike!

Thanks for all the advise. Sorry if I'm going against some of it. Hopefully I made the right choice.

Congratulations, let us know how you get on. With the bike that is, not paying for it....:)

Please give us an update.

I've ordered my Blue birdy rohloff. should be here tomorrow.
Congrats to such a nice bike! :thumb:
Please post pics and a review.

well the review will have to wait till tomorrow, since I spent all evening after work trying to first unfold it initially. What's with the german instructions! Although Avon did provide an english translation...
Also, I messed up refolding it a few times. I KNOW this is going to toughen me up, lol.

At the end of the folding session, I was left with the following part lying in the grass under. I am unsure if it's part of the bike or some random piece of junk which ended up there. please advise so I know if I can take the bike to work tomorrow. After work tomorrow I should be able to give a proper (amateur) review.

[/URL]
(http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture001ts6.jpg)

[URL="http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture004fp9.jpg"] (http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture003zd6.jpg)

I'm really sorry for the poor picture quality...

It's about the size of a 50pence piece in diameter, like a bowl and it seems to scrw into something.
Diameter is 33mm, depth of it is 14mm.

I'm just a bit worried that in all the battling to unfold it something might have broken off.
Like I said, it could just be some random junk in the garden...

One more confusion. it says the green elastomer offers a stiffer ride. Does that mean it absorbs more shocks than the yellow one which is "for light riders and maximum sensitivity".

I got a real hassle getting this bike insured too. They want to know every detail e.g. make and model of locks(!). In short, they want it secured even in my workplace in case an employee steals it from the staff room! Still, it will push down the premium. I am adding it under house insurance as I think this is cheaper than a dedicated policy.

well the review will have to wait till tomorrow, since I spent all evening after work trying to first unfold it initially. What's with the german instructions! Although Avon did provide an english translation...
Also, I messed up refolding it a few times. I KNOW this is going to toughen me up, lol.

At the end of the folding session, I was left with the following part lying in the grass under. I am unsure if it's part of the bike or some random piece of junk which ended up there. please advise so I know if I can take the bike to work tomorrow. After work tomorrow I should be able to give a proper (amateur) review.

[/URL]
(http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture001ts6.jpg)

[URL="http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture004fp9.jpg"] (http://img169.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture003zd6.jpg)

I'm really sorry for the poor picture quality...

It's about the size of a 50pence piece in diameter, like a bowl and it seems to scrw into something.
Diameter is 33mm, depth of it is 14mm.

I'm just a bit worried that in all the battling to unfold it something might have broken off.
Like I said, it could just be some random junk in the garden...

One more confusion. it says the green elastomer offers a stiffer ride. Does that mean it absorbs more shocks than the yellow one which is "for light riders and maximum sensitivity".

I got a real hassle getting this bike insured too. They want to know every detail e.g. make and model of locks(!). In short, they want it secured even in my workplace in case an employee steals it from the staff room! Still, it will push down the premium. I am adding it under house insurance as I think this is cheaper than a dedicated policy.



That looks like a plug.. check your handlebar ends to see if the holes are plugged.. next check your crank arms to see if a plug is missing.. depending on your steering stem, it might also go there.. it's decorative, so even if you can't find a spot, it won't make any difference to riding it... if you haven't already, the Aussie sight is quite good and offers a manual..

http://www.birdy.com.au/downloads.htm

A stiffer elastomer will transmit more road shock but will bob less.. they are easy enough to change.. if you have all of them, just try them all and see which one you like best..

Thanks. I had a quick look for at the bar ends, none missing there. Also checked out the cranks, but they don't have any. It looks almost burnt if you look at pic 2. The way plastic burns and moulds.

Thanks also for the link to the australian birdy site. The suspension download gave me some insight. At my weight of 50kg, the red elastomer is equivalent to the green elastomer for most people (i.e. more sports than comfort orientated). I would rather change the elastomer 1st before I try a more expensive saddle (a brooks for comfort).

Any ideas where I can order them from in the UK? Else I might just ask the supplier if they can also ship me the other 2 elastomers since they have already asked birdy (r&m?) to ship me a pair of 18" marathon pluses.
I will either do my review tomorrow (rain, only a 1.5mile x 2 commute) or on sunday (should be sunny with a 4 mile x 2 commute).
So far I love the Rohloff itself, but need some more time with the whole package.
I did manage to obtain my (almost) ideal riding position (fully upright - 90%) but want to try moving the seat forward a bit more on sunday morning before my 2 x 4mile ride and then critique it.

p.s. I wish now I'd gotten it in black. The blue isn't as nice in real life. Well mine isn't anyway. looks more like a dark purple. :(

Does that plastic insert go under into the steering axle just above the front wheel perhaps?

Does that plastic insert go under into the steering axle just above the front wheel perhaps?

That's where the headset adjustment lives .. an inverted aheadset affair.. perhaps the mystery continues.

p.s. I wish now I'd gotten it in black. The blue isn't as nice in real life. Well mine isn't anyway. looks more like a dark purple. :(

Dark purple sounds terrific :thumb:.. hope your upcoming pics displays the color accurately..

Dark purple sounds terrific :thumb:.. hope your upcoming pics displays the color accurately..

hehe, thanks for the encouragement. I'll just stick it out and hope it grows on me. I suppose the ride is the important thing. I'll get to ride to work in a few mins so should be fun. I might ask about getting it resprayed black at some point if it's scratched after a year or 2. Assuming this is feasible and not too costly.

The black plastic thing, still mystery. I thought it might slot into the front suspension at one point yesterday. I'll look under the handlebars stem too. I reckon it must be some random junk, maybe thrown from next door. It really does look like it's been burnt in places! My mum was skeptical because she does a little gardening daily and hadn't seen it. But she never wears her glasses so it's still a strong possibility it's nothing to do with the Birdy.

I just hope I don't get stuck folding it and end up being late at work! Yesterday at one point I got stuck unfolding it for several minutes. Same thing happened folding a couple of times.

Best times are about a minute for both operations thus far

I just hope I don't get stuck folding it and end up being late at work! Yesterday at one point I got stuck unfolding it for several minutes. Same thing happened folding a couple of times.

Best times are about a minute for both operations thus far


It'll get faster folding and unfolding as you get used to it.. personally, first, I fold the rear wheel under, drop the seatpost to secure the rear wheel, release the front end pulling it back and securing it and then drop the handle post... and the opposite when unfolding... with a derailleur, it's best to be in the smallest cog, with a Rohloff you get to eliminate that step.. once you get around to taking pics, I'd be interested in seeing the bike in the folded configuration to see how the chain tension is addressed.. good luck with it and happy riding..

Dark purple does sound good. And if you really like black ... well, that will just encourage you to ride more and get it a bit dirty.

Well instead of the test ride/review, I called my retailer today and told them I wasn't really happy with the colour. Not their fault of course. Unfortunately, at the LBSs I had only seen anthracite and orange. Orange does look nice but I'm not taking any more risks! I will ship back to them this week and they will hopefully ask r&m to get a black one for me. Boring maybe. But I can't go wrong with black, and like invisible said, maybe I will want to cycle it more! I did assume that scratches would be less likely to show up on black.

I know it's stupid to nitpick over colour of all things. But I figure that after spending so much (credit) on this, I might as well pick a colour I can ignore, and focus on enjoying the bike for the ride rather than the aesthetics. Most the websites I visited seem to put the blue birdy as the display pic for some reason. Some nifty marketing? Or perhaps they all prefer that colour too.

Shipping back to me will cost me another £25 or so, but they said they will pay for the shipping of the new model to me. On the plus side, now I can ask them to fit the marathon pluses for me so saving £10 in labour I suppose. This time, I will also ask them to get the other 2 elastomers from r&m and ship that too.

Any words of discouragement about a black birdy? By the way Bruce, what colour is your model?
How about grey vs black based on this thread:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=450096

On a side note, I wonder if this was a model that had already been previously returned? The saleman told me they had a blue birdy in stock with front and rear rack, kickstand, mudguards already fitted. They just removed the front rack and sent it to me. Why would they keep a model with all that on it just for display? None of the other display birdies at the shops I saw were like that. & i don't see r&m sending it to them in boxes with all that kit already attached?

Possible 3 week waiting period :(
Still at least it's coming direct from the manufacturer so if it still doesn't ride as well as I had hoped, I will assume that's just how folding bikes are (for me anyway).


UPDATE:
I was just messing with the camera, thinking I could at least post some pics for the forum before it gets sent back, and I saw how EVERY picture looked just like the blue birdies online. Both from professional sites, and from owners. It suddenly goes from a dark purplish blue to a bright electric blue. I'm sure flash is a major culprit. It was was just remarkable when I looked at the pic, taken by myself of the bike I was disappointed in, and saw the very same coloured bike I was expecting to come out of the box when I ordered a blue birdy.

I really hope they do carry through with their offer to exchange it for me. I am now stuck walking 8miles (2x4miles) to my voluntary work tomorrow (2.5hours of conservation). I have also been looking on their site to see if they sell the lights which I wanted for the bike so they make a little more money off my purchase. I really should have just gone the 111 miles to their showroom I guess and circumvented all this.

The missing piece is just something that was in the grass. Here is a demo for how to fold the bike: http://www.kinetics.org.uk/assets/multimedia/birdfold.mpeg