Living Car Free - Threw a rod, going car-free

I am here for advice.

The Story: My wife and I are 25 and have a 3 month old son. I have never had a driver's license. My wife has usually had a car, and we've been together for the last 6 years. About a week ago, the car that we had threw a rod, and is not worth replacing. So we decided that it would probably be a good time to invest into bikes. We have family and friends around ready to help us out, and we might even be sharing a veggie oil VW Rabbit with her father. Our minds are made up.

The Problem: We don't have bikes!!! I don't really know what to get. We're willing to spend at most $1000 each. We'll probably be riding 30 miles at a time maximum. I mean max. That's the round trip I would have to make to go buy beer (we live in a dry town in KY). Normally we can get everything we need within 5 miles. There is a 10 mile commute that we might try to make on a fairly regular basis I just got convinced looking at roadbikes that we needed roadbikes, and fairly nice ones. Then I came across this thread, and saw the pictures of car-free people's bikes, and thought maybe I had jumped off the deep end into the high-end bike consumer pool.

Trying not to ramble on too long: Any suggestions? We're planning on trailering the baby, and I might end up hauling a good bit of wood and other supplies on a trailer. I just want us comfortable and safe.

Breezer (http://www.breezerbikes.com/index.cfm?CFID=52281510&CFTOKEN=51533426). Look long and hard at Breezer bicycles, specifically their town bikes (http://www.breezerbikes.com/bikes.cfm).

Internal geared hubs are better than external derailers when it comes to commuter/work bikes.
They are easier to use, less adjusting and maintenance, they can be shifted while at a stop, and don't wear out chains, chain rings, and cogs, at nearly the rate that external derailers do.
Fenders are a very good thing to have.
Chain guards are also nice.

Ortlieb (http://www.ortliebusa.com/) makes the best panniers, Arkel (http://www.arkel-od.com/) makes the second best.
Tubus (http://www.ortliebusa.com/cartgenie/subcategory.asp?category=3) and Old Man Mountain (http://www.oldmanmountain.com/) are the two top rack makers.

Hub generators > bottle generators.
The Shimano dyno hub (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Shimano3N70.asp) is the best bang for the buck.
The B&M Fly IQ (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schmidt-headlights.asp#fly) light is the best dyno powered light.

There is no better saddle than Brooks (http://www.brookssaddles.com/). For an upright bike, look at the sprung Brooks, like the B67 (http://clevercycles.com/store/galleries/brooks_saddle_b67-2.jpg).

Schwalbe Marathon (http://www.schwalbetires.com/marathon_supreme_home) tires are very good, flat resistant, commuter tires. Michelin Transworld City (http://www.michelinbicycletire.com/michelinbicycle/index.cfm?event=city.view) tires are good too.

I agree with everything except the part about the Brooks saddle.

I prefer this:

http://hobsonseats.stores.yahoo.net/easyseat.html

You may also want to look into a trailer, both for the child and for heavy cargos. There are a lot out there, or if you are at all good with tools there are plans on the Internet.

Oh, on line retailers--these are all mom & pop stores.
Wallingford (http://www.wallbike.com/)--Brooks and other bicycle esoterica. Great return policies.
The Touring Store (http://www.thetouringstore.com/)--Wayne is just flat out nice, good selection on panniers and racks.
Harris Cyclery (http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/)--St. Sheldon's old employer. A real on-line LBS.
PeterWhite (http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/)--Peter has crappy phone skills, but builds top notch wheels. Master of bike lighting systems.

I am here for advice.

...We'll probably be riding 30 miles at a time maximum. I mean max. That's the round trip I would have to make to go buy beer (we live in a dry town in KY)...

BYOB - Brew Your Own Beer.

For what you need bikes for, I'd advise against racer-type road bikes; yes, they're fast and fun, but expensive, and not very good for carrying stuff. The Breezer's a good practical bike. In fact, all kinds of similar bikes are on the market now. If you want something that's a little faster but can still carry big loads, you might want to consider touring bikes. Go to bike shop and do a lot of test rides before you let anyone talk you into anything, though. (In my experience, many sales staff at bike shops aren't much more reliable than car salesmen; they just want to make a sale and get you out the door.)

BTW, I have family in KY, and have seen the roads down there, and the people who drive on them. If you have to drive on a road with no shoulder, don't do it after dark. I get the impression that some people driving these roads drive faster than they ought to, and they don't seem to be at all used to sharing the road with people on bicycles. (In fact, besides myself, the only people in all of KY that I've even seen riding bikes at all were in or near Lexington.)

I live in the rural South too.
The roads don't become death traps after dark, and sometimes city folk don't realize how much traffic slacks off after dark (living where one never sleeps and all). You do have to be mindful, but trying to ply through traffic in Atlanta day or night is real craziness to me.

Late night during the summer can be some of the nicest times ever to ride (saying you have good lights).
You can feel the cool air pool at the bottoms of hills, hear the crickets, and often for me I'm the only one on the road at all.

Well, I'll just jump in and say what most are going to say, "more info please"
Purely on street riding? Bike trails? Any off road? Hills? ( Mountains??!! ) Condition of road? Weather?
Where are you located? Are you going to ride in Winter? IS there Winter ( i.e. snow ) where you are?
Don't forget to budget for lights, fenders, racks, Pumps, patch kit, Helmets, (optional for some) LOCKS! If you are going to be clocking up the miles, some tools, ( which ones depends on how close your LBS is and how much you want to pay them )

If you're going to be trailering, get a second hitch kit for the other bike so you can swap. Depending how much and how often you carry stuff, maybe an Xtracycle rather than trailer?

Edit: Sorry, typed it out then got swamped, some of what I said was superseded, some I should have read your question better.

I would shy away from "city" or "towny" bikes personally. The internally geared hubs are great and low maintenance but hard to repair and do not offer the amount of gears or the range of gears that a derailer can. If these are to be your only mode of transportation then I highly suggest getting something with more gears as they add flexibility. A 30 miles ride is a pretty good round trip and I would not want to do it if there was a hill in the way without a dereailer. Furthermore, internally geared hubs do not hold up as well and are sometimes not strong enough for pulling heavy loads such as trailers full of wood/beer/babies. Thats why people who do bike tours do not use them. Check out a touring bike, or a true commuter bike like the shwinn world that already comes with rack/fenders/generator/derailer and are on sale last i check at performance bikes for under $600. Maybe buy one towny style bike and one more serious commuter bike. That way you can grab the rig that fits your preference and since you need two anyways. Unless you and your wife require vastly different frame sizes.... Go to the commuting forum for good ideas on what makes a good commuter.

The advice I wish I'd been given is to test ride as many bikes as possible before spending big bucks to buy a new one. And by a test ride I don't mean once around the block, I mean ride it until something starts to hurt. (Note: it's good to tell the salesman that's what you plan to do, so they don't start worrying!)

I would look at touring bikes base on your needs. Something like a Trek 520, which will last a long time has plenty of gears to get you carrying whatever up almost anything and if you buy used definitely in your price range. or maybe a surly touring bike.........also test as many bikes as you can as said before..................good luck!

I haven't been on here in a while, but I remember now how great the responses are. Thanks.

I've been planning on brewing my own beer, maybe this will help with the motivation.

We should be on the road exclusively.

I'm not scared of riding in the dark around here (Berea, KY). I did a morning paper route starting when I was about 10 yr/old in WV. Dark hilly roads on a bike (on ice in the winter). And I rode a bike between Bed-Stuy Brooklyn and Midtown Manhatten for about 4 months. That was scary.

Those Breezers do look nice. A bit pricey to me though. I also saw the Jamis Commuter 3.0 on Harris Cyclery. They seemed to think it was pretty good, and it was a bit cheaper.

This definitely has opened my eyes to a whole other area of searching. I will keep looking around, and will check back here for more good ideas.

Oh, the closest good bike shop I know of is about 40 miles away. I am fairly competent at maintaining bikes, but there is alot I don't know. Of course, I know how to search Sheldon Brown's archives.

Thanks!!

Another bike to take a look at might be the Redline R530 (http://www.redlinebicycles.com/adultbikes/R530.html). I have found that Redline dealers seem to be a lot more plentiful than Breezer dealers. YMMV.. They are about $600 out the door. Only down side that I have found is the saddle and no generator hub. Also if you get the chance and get near a big city bike shop that deals with trade ins check them out. I have gotten several excellent deals that way. Also take a look at older steel major brand MTB's. They can quite often be converted to a very durable commuter bike and are available for very reasonable prices. Giant and Trek are a couple of brands to look for.

Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/42239/2590987330066886751S500x500Q85.jpg

I'd recommend one of the cheaper commuters by Jamis. I've got a Coda, and the MSRP is $475, which seems very good for a bike of its caliber. I almost walked out with a road bike because I thought that was what I needed. Fortunately, someone brought out the Coda, and it felt far more comfortable, due to the flat bars, trigger shifters, and more upright position. I ride it all around town, and it doesn't give me any trouble. So if your LBS sells Jamis bikes, they might be worth a try.

http://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/bikes/08_bikes/images/08_bike_images/08_CODA.jpg

I don't think you'll be happy for long with the Breezer or anything like it. These are city bikes, and best for shorter distances on flatter terrain.

The touring bikes and hybrids that others have mentioned are definitely worth looking at. Cyclocross bikes are also very popular with commuters, and would be a good choice. Don't dismiss road bikes just because people on this subforum (including me) are a little biased against them.

Personally, I think you should consider a hardtail mountain bike. You can get a good one for $400 or less. They're sturdy and stable, widely available, good for short and moderate commutes, and have good gearing for the hills you have there. You can add slick tires, fenders and racks.

But I think the most important consideration is availability. If at all possible, it's best to buy from a good local bike shop. I doubt if they have more than two or three of those in Berea. They won't have a big variety in stock, although they can special order for you. (Obviously, they won't want to special order 5 or 6 bikes so you can try them all out.) You will most easily find MTBs, road bikes, a few hybrids and comfort bikes. Your selection of touring bikes and cyclocross bikes will be extremely limited.

I too like the jamis coda line. I have the sport myself. Steel frame, braze-ons front and back for racks, and just all around great bike.

I'm going to take the unpopular opinion and advise you to not spend any money at all.

If you live near a place that offers earn-a-bike programs, like this : http://www.communitycycles.org/programs/earn-a-bike.html, then this would be your safest bet for a bike. A lot of people stop bicycling once they realize that it's a lot more then pressing down a pedal. It kinda sucks fighting headwind, up a hill, sweating in your nice clothes, trying to make an appointment on time (while getting flats because someone up there needs a laugh).

So I say take advantage of any earn of bike programs, if you town have one. If it turns out it's something you want to continue, then you can spend the big bucks on something that will last a lifetime and you have your 'free' bike that you can use for backup.

There have been some great recommendations here, but you may want to err on the side of caution and start cheap. What works for anyone else may not be what works for you. Thus, only you can discover what works for you.

The general rule is that the purpose of your first bike is to teach you what you want and need in your second bike.

Meaning that no matter which bike you buy, you'll soon discover it's not quite the right bike and you'll be looking for another.

A strategy that incorporates this might be to buy something used or a fairly cheap new bike. I was a total n00b, and decided new was a better bet, since I didn't know how to repair anything. I started with a $380 Giant. Best decision I ever made. I put 3,500 miles on that bike, replacing only wear parts (tires, brake pads, chain, etc). It taught me that I really wanted a road bike.

My second bike was at $100 Craigslist special. As my first road bike it taught me I was on the right track, but that a slightly relaxed geometry would be better.

I emptied my accounts on my third bike, and love it to death, and see no reason to change it. Less than a year old, I've put over 4,000 miles on it both in town (in all four seasons) and have taken it on two vacations.

If I'd shot my load on the first bike, there wouldn't have been money left for the second and third bikes. And I wouldn't have picked the bike I own and love so much now.

BTW, the same applies for lights, racks and accessories.

There have been some great recommendations here, but you may want to err on the side of caution and start cheap. What works for anyone else may not be what works for you. Thus, only you can discover what works for you.

The general rule is that the purpose of your first bike is to teach you what you want and need in your second bike.

Meaning that no matter which bike you buy, you'll soon discover it's not quite the right bike and you'll be looking for another.

A strategy that incorporates this might be to buy something used or a fairly cheap new bike. I was a total n00b, and decided new was a better bet, since I didn't know how to repair anything. I started with a $380 Giant. Best decision I ever made. I put 3,500 miles on that bike, replacing only wear parts (tires, brake pads, chain, etc). It taught me that I really wanted a road bike.

My second bike was at $100 Craigslist special. As my first road bike it taught me I was on the right track, but that a slightly relaxed geometry would be better.

I emptied my accounts on my third bike, and love it to death, and see no reason to change it. Less than a year old, I've put over 4,000 miles on it both in town (in all four seasons) and have taken it on two vacations.

If I'd shot my load on the first bike, there wouldn't have been money left for the second and third bikes. And I wouldn't have picked the bike I own and love so much now.

BTW, the same applies for lights, racks and accessories.

Excellent advice. My first bike was a used walmart bike that I (over)paid $30 for. It literally fell apart after about a month. Since then, the bikes I've bought--mountain and road--are typically gently used ones that I pay $150 to $200 for. I have a great pawn shop that fixes the bikes before they sell them. But most places don't do that--not even the LBSs here in town.


A drawback to a used bike for a novice is that you don't usually get the expertise in selection and fitting that you'll get from a good LBS. If (big if) there is a good LBS in your town. Another drawback is that if you get a crappy first bike, you might just give up on bikes right at the start.

The notion of buying a cheap new bike from a LBS ($300 to $400) is a great one. This will work for MTBs and hybrids, but you probably won't find a road bike or the more exotic bikes in that price range.

My view is that for rides or commutes that approach 30 miles round trip, you need some kind of road bike with drop bars. This comes from experimenting with different kinds of bars on my 30 mile round trip commute and always going back to drop bars.

It doesn't have to be a fancy new road bike. Anything from the 80's or 90's with a steel frame and 700c wheels will do.

The best deal is always to get a used bike. I would argue for an 80's road bike or an old mountain bike, at least for your first purchase. They cost almost nothing. Just make sure to buy something that was good when it was first released! If it was good enough then, it probably still is. A well treated bike lasts almost forever.

Thank you, THank you.

To be clear, there is no LBS in Berea. None. I have searched this town for a cone wrench to borrow before, and given up. There is probably a crappy bikeshop up the road in Richmond, but the closest good bikeshop is in Lexington, about an hour's drive away.

There is a campus bikeshop similar to the earn-a-bike program at the College here in Berea. They will not be open for another month or so, and I'm not sure that they are really supposed to be open to the public, beyond helping with bike repair.

I'm all about not spending the money. When I was in NYC I went to the Freegan Bike Workshop and learned to put my own bike together from the parts and tools they had scavenged from around the city. I'm still no expert, but I feel competent. I rode that bike all over the city, and kept going back to help out.

I've ridden many bikes in my life, and have some idea what I want. But right now I know that what I don't want to deal with is a used bike that has not been well taken care of. I've ridden enough bikes with dirty rusty stretched chains, troublesome rear cogs, corroded brake systems, and that weigh a ton.

I read a really good thread (either here or on roadbikereview.com) discussing whether to buy online (especially used bikes) or at your LBS. I can't find it now, but it was extensive. It sounds like buying used is the right way to go for us. But we will get to our (not so L)LBS.

It does sound like touring bikes might be the right idea. At the same time, hills don't scare me much. I'm from West Virginia, the hills here in Kentucky just aren't the same (being in them doesn't have the same comforting effect, and riding up them just isn't as hard). So I feel like the commuter bikes might handle the task just fine.

When I was looking at the raodbikes really hard I found the classified ads at roadbikereview.com looked really good. Anybody know of any other good online bike classifieds? (maybe I should start a new thread for that?) craigslist is kind of slow in KY compared to the big cities, yard sales etc around here are mostly going to have junk walmart bikes. I've been through those.

Thanks again!!

fully built xtracycle. You can get a fully equipped Marin Novato 2007 S.U.B. for $999.

Then buy a second electra townie or something for $400-500.

However, 3 months old is too young to put a kid in a trailer. Might want to wait 7-8 months and see if you can limp along bumming a ride, or buying cheap car to see you through.

However, 3 months old is too young to put a kid in a trailer. Might want to wait 7-8 months and see if you can limp along bumming a ride, or buying cheap car to see you through.

The Dutch and Danes do it all the time. If they can, why can't we?

The Dutch and Danes do it all the time. If they can, why can't we?

different culture, different set of rules relating to helmets, i.e. many jurisdictions require children to wear helmets. Children under 12 months generally don't have the neck strength to support their head and a helmet:

http://www.ibike.org/education/infant.htm

you might want to check out bikesdirect.com if you already have experiance building bikes. They come almost fully assembled and are dirt cheap. Maybe go to the website and check out what you are interested in, then go on a drive and test ride all of them at the store in lexington. Go back home and order it! Why buy from a LBS if you will never take it there? Buying used can be a good way to go but as you said, sometime they are too used... You can get a brand new Windsor Tourist, a true touring bike that is an exact clone of the highly regarded Fuji Touring, for $599 with shipping. Check it out!

Or buy a frame and do a mix-and-match build--this sort of seat, this sort of handlebar, this sort of drivetrain, etc.

tsl's advice is right on. Roody might well be right about what would suit you guys too, and inexpensive mountain bikes/hybrids make good starter bikes. I'm also Nthing the advice to ride as many bikes as you can. Yes, it's a huge pain in the ass, but it really will help. If the bike hurts after less than 5 miles of riding, it is Not The Right Bike.

Don't plan on you and your wife needing the same kind of bike. My partner and I happen to have very similar builds (we're both short leg/long torso types), but he's happiest on a pretty stretched out road bike, and I prefer to be pretty upright. He likes a fairly racy bike, and I have a blatant "mommy bike" with cargo capacity oozing out. I put on a lot more miles than he does, so he's been very willing to throw money at the problem of making my bike work. (I think it's in self defense... he knows from experience that if I can't manage on my own, he *will* be helping :D) It's really important to have the bike fit the rider and the rider's style. And no, you won't really get the fit right without putting in a lot of miles.

Keep in mind that good kid trailers are not cheap. Burleys run about $500 list, so unless you really luck out, a trailer might take up a *lot* of your budget... and your baby is *not* replaceable (on the bright side, a kid trailer can haul an amazing amount of stuff). Cheapish hybrids and mountain bikes run $300 to $500. Rack and a set of panniers runs about $100-150. Good enough helmets are $20-30. Fenders are $30-40, and you can pick up decent lights for $50-60. If Berea has no local bike shops, odds are racks aren't all that common either, so you'll want decent chains for locking up.

Check out the Surely "Big Dummy". Also Trek and Kona are coming out with their own to go against the Surely.

It is my understanding that the Kona Ute does not take Xtracycle accessories, nor does the Yuba Mundo. From what I have heard, the Trek may not either.