Living Car Free - Trian Conductors vs Cyclists

So this morning on SEPTA, the transit system of brotherly love, I move to the last seat like always and often a few minutes had the jerk-off conductor point at my handlebars and say, "They can't be there." He claims it was blocking the door the the front/engineer area. Then he opened the door at tissue and walked through without difficulty. Figuring all was well I continued to read. After he came back through the door--without incident--he again claims that it is blocking the door and proceeded to shoot down every alternative position I attempt. His pettiness was only satiated when I propped it upright on the seat, BLOCKING THE EMERGENCY EXIT!

This irony could not go unshared.

How bike-friendly are other city's train systems?

Around here it is awful. I once wanted to take the commuter train at 5.30 in the morning, leave the bike at my brother's and walk to the airport bus. At that hour, every single car of the train was completely empty, but the conductor had the nerve to tell me that I couldn't bring my bike because of fire safety regulations. I asked him if he thought it would self-ignite, but the issue seemed to be that if the train caught fire (something that has not happened once since my father moved to the area in the 40's), my bike would block the masses of people (all zero of them) scrambling for the exit.

So this morning on SEPTA, the transit system of brotherly love, I move to the last seat like always and often a few minutes had the jerk-off conductor point at my handlebars and say, "They can't be there." He claims it was blocking the door the the front/engineer area. Then he opened the door at tissue and walked through without difficulty. Figuring all was well I continued to read. After he came back through the door--without incident--he again claims that it is blocking the door and proceeded to shoot down every alternative position I attempt. His pettiness was only satiated when I propped it upright on the seat, BLOCKING THE EMERGENCY EXIT!

This irony could not go unshared.

How bike-friendly are other city's train systems?

Try the "vestibule" in the middle of the cars - there's usually plenty of room in there to put the bike. Also try the rear car (instead of the first car). Or just ask them "where can I put my bike?". put it on them.

Well, if there was an emergency stop, I wouldn't want bikes flying all over the car. Also, there are issues like space, and dirty bikes rubbing against passengers and their clothing.

If enough people want to take bikes on the train, the management should make special arrangements for them. Some lines have special cars for bikes, and others have bike racks or bins inside the cars, or even outside.

So this morning on SEPTA, the transit system of brotherly love, I move to the last seat like always and often a few minutes had the jerk-off conductor point at my handlebars and say, "They can't be there." He claims it was blocking the door the the front/engineer area. Then he opened the door at tissue and walked through without difficulty. Figuring all was well I continued to read. After he came back through the door--without incident--he again claims that it is blocking the door and proceeded to shoot down every alternative position I attempt. His pettiness was only satiated when I propped it upright on the seat, BLOCKING THE EMERGENCY EXIT!

This irony could not go unshared.

How bike-friendly are other city's train systems?

Septa's kind of funny.

They want all full size bikes in the Vestibule or they will give you trouble. Folding bikes are allowed inside the cabin.

Septa has hired a lot of rude and grumpy employees.

I don't envy them, though - can't be too easy working for a major city's underfunded public transit system.

The particular train I am talking about used to be much better. When my father was young each train had a freight-car where you could check in heavy luggage or bicycles. Each car also had a sort of balcony at the front and rear. Those were the days.

BUS: since a couple of years back, no bikes allowed on our local commuter buses because there is "no designated bike space available". (yes, I was peeved enough to ask them). Those busses have roll-in height floors, and space for baby trams and whatnot. They provided nice bail-out system in case of bigger mechanical bike problems, I used that a couple of times. Long distance buses take bikes in the separate downstairs cargo compartment, for a fee.

TRAIN: on commuter trains, OK for a fee, but not during rush hours. Long distance trains, OK for a fee except the high-speed ones. The bike racks in trains are reasonably well designed, but their capacity is sorely lacking. The fee structure needs urgent re-thinking (not sure about the "re-" part, actually).

SUBWAY: OK, free of charge, no bikes allowed during rush hours.

On the whole, I don't see a real determined push to make it easier to mix bikes and public transport. Nowadays most communities around here have bike action plans and such, but the effort is put in facilities. I suppose mixed mode transport is lower in priority.

--J

So this morning on SEPTA, the transit system of brotherly love, I move to the last seat like always and often a few minutes had the jerk-off conductor point at my handlebars and say, "They can't be there." He claims it was blocking the door the the front/engineer area. Then he opened the door at tissue and walked through without difficulty. Figuring all was well I continued to read. After he came back through the door--without incident--he again claims that it is blocking the door and proceeded to shoot down every alternative position I attempt. His pettiness was only satiated when I propped it upright on the seat, BLOCKING THE EMERGENCY EXIT!

This irony could not go unshared.

How bike-friendly are other city's train systems?

GTFO SEPTA and bike. Almost every route follows some major road (bikeable usually) or other alternative. R3 media/elwyn follows Baltimore Ave/Pike way out to Wawa and the Norristown train follows the Tow Path/Valley Forge path, R5 follows Lancaster Ave, etc..

For the "multi-modal commute" a folding bike is really the way to go. I take my folding bike on NJTransit or LIRR trains twice every day, and have never had any problem with conductors. Oh, and I also ride the bike 16 miles each day, that's no problem either.

Here in Sydney Australia you can take your bike on the train any time with the only condition being that you have to buy a child fare for the bike during morning and evening peak hours Monday to Friday. Other than that nobody (employees) says a word. There's even a special extra wide gate to accommodate bikes & prams at the major stations.

...Fun fact: We have one of the largest metro rail systems in the world.

GTFO SEPTA and bike. Almost every route follows some major road (bikeable usually) or other alternative. R3 media/elwyn follows Baltimore Ave/Pike way out to Wawa and the Norristown train follows the Tow Path/Valley Forge path, R5 follows Lancaster Ave, etc..

do one better and grab onto the bus as long as it has the same route as you :roflmao2:

Try the "vestibule" in the middle of the cars - there's usually plenty of room in there to put the bike. Also try the rear car (instead of the first car). Or just ask them "where can I put my bike?". put it on them.

By vestibule do you mean the two seats that have walls in front and back? I usually use the handicapped areas no issue, in accordance with their policy, but most days I take the R7 and all the people going up to NYC seem blind to the over head racks for their bags and fill up the handicap spots. As for the rear car, there have are times I have been told to go up to the front by the engineers on a power trip with no explanation.

I will be the first to say that most times I only get an annoyed attitude and sans the irrational demands to move. Bottom line is that it is just frustrating to get the attitude on the off peak trains.


GTFO SEPTA and bike. Almost every route follows some major road (bikeable usually) or other alternative. R3 media/elwyn follows Baltimore Ave/Pike way out to Wawa and the Norristown train follows the Tow Path/Valley Forge path, R5 follows Lancaster Ave, etc..

I take the R7 to Croydon from 30th most days, you can bike through North Philly all you want but it's not my cup of tea. The other days I take the R5 to Doylestown 30+ miles one way as the bird flys.

I wish I could pull it off but I know myself.

For the "multi-modal commute" a folding bike is really the way to go. I take my folding bike on NJTransit or LIRR trains twice every day, and have never had any problem with conductors. Oh, and I also ride the bike 16 miles each day, that's no problem either.

I should look into one but as of now I am fiscally constrained to a single bike.

I wouldn't ride 60 miles each day.

With an electric motor to help me, I could do it though.

Fact remains, bike+bus is a really good option for some people and SEPTA drivers shouldn't be rude about it.

Well, if there was an emergency stop, I wouldn't want bikes flying all over the car. Also, there are issues like space, and dirty bikes rubbing against passengers and their clothing.

If enough people want to take bikes on the train, the management should make special arrangements for them. Some lines have special cars for bikes, and others have bike racks or bins inside the cars, or even outside.

My bike never moves anywhere as I secure it down with a same strip of cloth which I have with me. I use the cloth to tie around my right pant leg to keep it out of the chain while riding.

I am not talking about a subway, rather, I refer to a commuter train with seats for everyone. There is an official policy for taking bike on the trains, which I respect and follow, yet you catch the occasional disgruntled employee who dislikes cyclists. I was venting about those bad-apple employees and wondering if such bike-despising train employees exist all over the country and abroad--as I suspect.

I take the R7 to Croydon from 30th most days, you can bike through North Philly all you want but it's not my cup of tea. The other days I take the R5 to Doylestown 30+ miles one way as the bird flys.

I wish I could pull it off but I know myself.

When I lived at Temple I rode through North Philly at literally every hour of the day, not even a heckle, ever. I have much more heckling and shady glares in West Philly at 3 pm. Just sayin', maybe it's not as bad as you think it is.

Doylestown, I will say, is very far away.

Just sayin', maybe it's not as bad as you think it is.


Definitely possible, I've made trips to Temple frequently but never ventured much farther north on Broad by bike. My main experience with North Philly was back in high school driving down from Cheltenham and I had little experience with the city at that point and perhaps have a false impression of the neighborhood. I lived on the edge of Mantua for a year and never felt my safety was at risk but many people ask how the hell I survived north of Spring Garden. I guess I just can't get past the bark of North Philly or the bias of my first impressions from yesteryear.

I should give it a shot since I often take Girard out to Port Richmand and perhaps I can figure a route via Northeast to save some $$ on the trialpass. Anyone know a good bike route from West Philly to Bristol?

Anyone know a good bike route from West Philly to Bristol?
Frankford Ave / route 13 is possible. maybe not a "good" route though.

I rode out to Burlington from philly, but I rode across to camden first so that won't help you much.

Definitely possible, I've made trips to Temple frequently but never ventured much farther north on Broad by bike. My main experience with North Philly was back in high school driving down from Cheltenham and I had little experience with the city at that point and perhaps have a false impression of the neighborhood.

I bicycle commuted from West Oak Lane to Center City in the 70's. In the 60's I collected rent from my father's rental at 20th and Diamond and rode my bicycle through North Philadelphia to South Philadelphia to visit my Grandmother. Your impression of North Philadelphia is not mistaken.

Frankford Ave / route 13 is possible. maybe not a "good" route though.


Not good in the road conditions sense or in the welcome to Kensington not good?

I bicycle commuted from West Oak Lane to Center City in the 70's. In the 60's I collected rent from my father's rental at 20th and Diamond and rode my bicycle through North Philadelphia to South Philadelphia to visit my Grandmother. Your impression of North Philadelphia is not mistaken.

I once had a fun experience grabbing beer at a corner deli around 15th & Diamond at dust and would not want to be at 20th & Diamond after dark. However, I feel that North Philly was much worse in the 70s. In general the city is better compared to back in the day now that half the population has moved out and would argue that the Southwest has claimed the not-quite honor of worst section of Philly nowadays. Again though, this is completely anecdotal and I have nothing to back it up.

I've never really had a reason to venture to north philly but the "kids" would throw rocks at every cyclits head in west philly.

I've never really had a reason to venture to north philly but the "kids" would throw rocks at every cyclits head in west philly.

What part? Starting from north of Drexel I used to regularly ride to 46th & Baltimore taking (more or less) Powelton to 43rd and 43rd to Baltimore with out such issues.

However, I feel that North Philly was much worse in the 70s. In general the city is better compared to back in the day now that half the population has moved out.

Well some neighborhoods were "improved" ala the Raymond Rosen Homes method in 1995, i.e. demolished by the city, the rest wrecked by the residents.

Well some neighborhoods were "improved" ala the Raymond Rosen Homes method in 1995, i.e. demolished by the city, the rest wrecked by the residents.

Large projects like the one pictured are no good for anyone. They demolished the project two blocks over from my old place and I would bet good money that less people have been shot this last year versus two years ago.

Meanwhile, at the initial topic of the thread:


TRAIN: on commuter trains, OK for a fee, but not during rush hours. Long distance trains, OK for a fee except the high-speed ones. The bike racks in trains are reasonably well designed, but their capacity is sorely lacking. The fee structure needs urgent re-thinking (not sure about the "re-" part, actually).
Helsinki trains seem bike friendly. Similar policy as SEPTA, non-peak only, but no indication from the poster of generalized hostility from employees.

Here in Sydney Australia you can take your bike on the train any time with the only condition being that you have to buy a child fare for the bike during morning and evening peak hours Monday to Friday. Other than that nobody (employees) says a word. There's even a special extra wide gate to accommodate bikes & prams at the major stations.
Sydney trains also appear bike friendly and have taken a very American approach and charge a fare for bringing a bike on during peak times. Bravo.

Well, if there was an emergency stop, I wouldn't want bikes flying all over the car. Also, there are issues like space, and dirty bikes rubbing against passengers and their clothing.
If enough people want to take bikes on the train, the management should make special arrangements for them. Some lines have special cars for bikes, and others have bike racks or bins inside the cars, or even outside.
Detroit (guessing) metro has some accommodations but it appears that at least one rider is not pro-bikes on trians.

Is this hostility to bikes on trains an American thing? Can we fix it by charging extra and using the revenue to create bike-friendly accommodations? I wonder if you could make a bike-friendly weekly pass work, would they need to make them for a specific time and line specific (for rush hour commuters) with a quota per week? Hmmm…

So here is SEPTA's policy on bikes on regional rail (http://www.septa.org/service/bike_ride.html):


On weekdays, weekends, and major holidays bicycles must occupy areas designated for wheelchairs. If passengers in wheelchairs are occupying all designated wheelchair areas, cyclists will not be allowed to board. If a passenger in a wheelchair boards after a cyclist, and the space is needed to accommodate a wheelchair, the cyclist must vacate the space and leave the train unless another designated wheelchair area is availableIronically, that same page says, "SEPTA welcomes customers who ride their bicycle for part of their journey, and offer several amenities for bicyclists." The policy doesn't seem very welcoming.

I am not talking about a subway, rather, I refer to a commuter train with seats for everyone. There is an official policy for taking bike on the trains, which I respect and follow, yet you catch the occasional disgruntled employee who dislikes cyclists. I was venting about those bad-apple employees and wondering if such bike-despising train employees exist all over the country and abroad--as I suspect.

Have a copy of the official policy printed on a little laminated card. If a functionary gives you trouble, show him the card. Then fire off, as soon as you can, an e-mail documenting the incident to the head of the company.

Well, if there was an emergency stop, I wouldn't want bikes flying all over the car. Also, there are issues like space, and dirty bikes rubbing against passengers and their clothing.

If enough people want to take bikes on the train, the management should make special arrangements for them. Some lines have special cars for bikes, and others have bike racks or bins inside the cars, or even outside.

We're only allowed to have bikes in the train at the ends of the cars (Except no bikes at an occupied operators cabin... ie: The front of the first car)

http://www.rtd-denver.com/SpecialRides/B_n_Ride/index.html

http://www.rtd-denver.com/SpecialRides/B_n_Ride/images/lrt1.jpg
http://www.rtd-denver.com/SpecialRides/B_n_Ride/images/lrt3.jpg

Most countries I have been do not allow bicycles on public transportation at all. Sure, someTRAINS do, but not inner-city transport like subways, local rail, and buses.

I noticed that some Chicago rail allows up to two bicycles per car, but it is obvious that once ridership starts to grow, that won't be practical anymore.

Bicycles in crowded trains and crowded train stations just don't mix - at least not with the presently designed stations. Imagine bicycles in a Tokyo rail station or in London's tube - I sudder to think.

A better solution, if you are a regular commuter is to have a bicycle parked at both stations; to and from home/work.

So here is SEPTA's policy on bikes on regional rail (http://www.septa.org/service/bike_ride.html)
I know they reserve the right to kick you off for handicap individuals and respect that. However, this is SEPTA and I think there are ~5 handicap accessible routes out of all the stops. They only have the handicap spots to satisfy federal mandates. In the same vein, they have an official policy as a formality.

Update: Almost not let on the train home yesterday because some tourists from Spain decided that either luggage was to good for the overhead racks or the language barrier they face constituted a handicap necessitating the occupation of handicap seats.

In their defense, I don't know if it is clearly posted that those seats are for the handicapped and plenty of knowledgeable riders selfishly occupy the seats on emptier trains. And the conductor wasn't a dick about it this time, I just found the timing coincidental.




A better solution, if you are a regular commuter is to have a bicycle parked at both stations; to and from home/work.

Leaving a bike overnight is not an option.

A better solution, if you are a regular commuter is to have a bicycle parked at both stations; to and from home/work.

That's assuming that there's someplace inside the station where they'll let you keep your bike; you certainly don't want to leave your bike locked to a post somewhere outside where it can get rained and snowed on. Not to mention that it might not be there the next time you need it.

Our issues are very different than yours. All trains are allowed 16, 32, or even 64 bikes. The problem being that 16 is almost never enough, and the capacity is not predictable. While it seems bad to whine when our situation is comparatively excellent, lack of reliability can submarine the best setup. So we are currently involved in some political action with Caltrain.

http://www.sfbike.org/?caltrain

In Chicago, our CTA trains allow, I believe, 2 bikes per car, wherever you can fit them, except during rush hour, when there's no bikes allowed. Occasionally, I stop by the train station at 5 PM because my bank's got an ATM in the lobby, and the employees holler, "you can't bring that on the train!", so it's definitely enforced.

Our Metra suburban-commuter trains allow bikes, but they have to be tied to a railing that's only exposed if you fold up like 4 seats. Not sure about their rush hour policy. I can actually sorta feel for the non-bike people on this one, because that's a loss of a lot of seating space for each bike.

CTA buses have racks that fit 2 bikes apiece and are really easy to use, although you're not allowed to lock your bike to the rack, so it's feasible that someone could yank it off of there at a stop sign. . .

Our issues are very different than yours. All trains are allowed 16, 32, or even 64 bikes. The problem being that 16 is almost never enough, and the capacity is not predictable. While it seems bad to whine when our situation is comparatively excellent, lack of reliability can submarine the best setup. So we are currently involved in some political action with Caltrain.

http://www.sfbike.org/?caltrain

Different cultures I guess. What is the arrangement for the bikes (i.e., a bike rack per car, car dedicated to bikes, etc.)?



Our Metra suburban-commuter trains allow bikes, but they have to be tied to a railing that's only exposed if you fold up like 4 seats. Not sure about their rush hour policy. I can actually sorta feel for the non-bike people on this one, because that's a loss of a lot of seating space for each bike.


I was referring to our equivalent to commuter rails called the regional rail. We stick our bikes in the handicapped section which works fine when you don't have a disgruntled employee but I actually saw a man in a wheel chair get on Sunday night when I was taking a train out of the city. First time I have ever seen some one with a disability--other then laziness and large luggage--need the space. I was fortunately able to walk to the next car back before anyone told me to get off since I saw him getting let in.