Tandem Cycling - Calfee Update #11: The Penultimate Update

For those who are interested, Update #11 to our Calfee Journal is now posted.
http://www.thetandemlink.com/calfee_tandem_11.html



This update will most likely be the next to last journal entry I make before the final 'Year in Review' this December. This is actually a good thing, as it indicates I've finally finished fiddling around with the new tandem and have otherwise resolved all of the little nits and noises that often times come with a new bicycle or tandem.

In this update you'll find out how it felt to ride the steel Erickson tandem the Calfee displaced as our primary tandem and see what we've changed since our last update in late May. I've also included my somewhat unscientific wheel spin-down test graphs and some final thoughts on the entire building process.

Very informative article!

I noticed you did not have anything more on your experience with the disc brake. With such close tolerances with the disc, do you find it is difficult to replace the wheel without scratching the stays?

Did the old excentric actually slip when installed with carbon assembly compound? Or, did you change because it is easier to adjust?

I noticed you did not have anything more on your experience with the disc brake.

That's because I have not had any reason to install the disc beyond the initial fit checks and, well, it's also due in part to having a preference for our Topolino wheels which are not disc compatible. However, even for our local mountains -- which include some double-digit technical descents -- the Campy rim brakes are more than adequate for our sub 300lb team weight.

If and when we head off for a week or two in some unfamiliar mountain terrain I'll install the disc and wear it in before we depart. Based on what I saw with the fit checks on the workstand and while riding near our home I'm confident the Avid will not present any problems.

With such close tolerances with the disc, do you find it is difficult to replace the wheel without scratching the stays?

I've sold the one wheelset with the White Ind MI6 hub that had the very tight fit and both the Rolf's and the newer White Ind. Daisy hubs which use a thread-on adapter have adequate clearance. Regardless, cosmetic damage to the stays is a non-issue given our Calfee has an unpainted frame.

Did the old excentric actually slip when installed with carbon assembly compound?

On our first two rides and then now and again as I fiddled around with different bottom brackets, I found my timing chain would go slack during a ride as the eccentric rotated under pedalling loads over a 30-40 mile ride. However, once I found the sweet spot between having the bottom bracket cups 'tight enough' but not so tight that they were overwhelming the two fixing bolts on the original eccentric the eccentric stayed put.

In restrospect, I'm not sure the carbon assembly compound is the best way to go with the Calfee eccentric. In fact, I suspect the best approach would be to clean both the eccentric halves and the eccentric shell with a 50/50 mix of water and rubbing alcohol and skip the use of the new compounds, new or old eccentric shell design.

... did you change because it is easier to adjust?

Ultimately, the reason I had them change the eccentric is because they could. I've used the Bushnell eccentrics for over a decade and simply given the choice between the Bushnell and the Calfee design -- which works just fine once you figure it out -- I opted to go with the familiar.

Mark:
Noticed your 'preference for the Topolino wheels' . . .
A couple years ago, before your Calfee, you sort of downplayed Topolino . . . however once you try 'em . . . you love 'em!
Rudy/zonatandem

Mark:Noticed your 'preference for the Topolino wheels' . . . A couple years ago, before your Calfee, you sort of downplayed Topolino . . .

Yes and maybe. While I am guilty of gushing over the Topolino wheels in this more recent update, I remain mindful of the value proposition and repairability issues, which is true for most of the high-end and/or go-fast wheelsets.

What appears below is a screen shot of my April comments from Update #8 along with a May update that express what is still a valid critique.




Therefore, unless someone already has a nice set of conventional wheels and a wad of cash burning a hole in their pocket, I'd be hard pressed to recommend buying a set of Topolino wheels for their tandems... or for that matter a set of Rolfs. Remember, mine have already gone back to Topolino once and may make a second trip. We know of a few teams who had spoke breakage issues with very low miles. In all cases, I believe we all were experienced tandem teams who owned other sets of wheels and didn't have any down time while the wheels made trips back to Connecticut for some quick-turn service. I'm not aware of any secondary spoke issues on the part of the other owners and the service and support I received from Rafe and his team at Topolino Technology was excellent. However, I still have a front hub noise that needs to be resolved at some point.

Bottom Line: If you have the coin and want to have what are clearly some really light, robust, and exotic wheels that will take the sting out of less than perfect roads as a supplement to your regular wheelset, the Topolino's clearly get an enthusiastic thumbs-up from me. Just be mindful that they ARE exotic, hand-made wheels using cutting edge technology that are not immune from minor issues that in most cases will need to be addressed by the home office.

Certainly hi-zoot wheels are pricey . . . such unique wheels cannot readily be fixed by the roadside; ask the folks with Sweet 16s, Rolfs, etc.
Personally have owned a set of Topos on my single since almost day one of the wheelset introduction and am impressed/happy.
At Interbike a few years back, Craig and I did some ear bending to get Topo to build tandem-rated wheels; don't know how much influence we had, but Crag did have folks testing a modified pair of single bike Topos on one of his Calfee twicers.
Said he: these 2 guys doing the testing can destroy any wheelset, but so far they have not done that to the Topos and have 5,000 miles on them. Also, a set of Topos was used on RAAM . . . certainly not your average riders/conditions, without any issues.
If someone has the $$ to spend and wants some excellent light wheels for a top-o-the-line twicer, we'd certainly recommend the Topolinos.
Sounds like you also fit in that category, Mark!
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Sounds like you also fit in that category, Mark!

One of the things I miss the most about Tandem & Family Cycling Magazine are the reviews by David Morgan, as David would usually draw an analogy between whatever tandem he was reviewing and a recognizable brand and model of car relative to character, performance and cost.

If I were to do the same with the wheels, it would look something like this...


White Ind / Velicity Fusion = BMW Z4


Rolf's = Porsche 911 Carrera S Cabrio


Topolino = Wiesmann MF3 Roadster

Rudy's auto analogy for Topolino tandem wheels . . .

Rudy's auto analogy for Topolino tandem wheels . . .

????????????? I'm at a loss ??????????????????

Here's what at least one automotive journalist wrote about the R-R Drophead Coupe:


First of all, forget what your eyes are telling you as you gaze upon these images--in the flesh and up close, the Phantom Drophead is much, much bigger than it appears in pictures. It's a shade under nineteen feet long, and it weighs in at a colossal 5776 pounds. The Drophead Coup is based on the massive Phantom sedan, although it is shorter by 9.8 inches. It also weighs about 155 pounds more than the sedan, thanks to extra chassis bracing that makes up for the absent roof.

Once inside, you are in a world of exquisite detail that makes the staggering $412,000 price seem (slightly) less breathtaking. As you climb in over the wide sill, you'll encounter the aluminum knob of the umbrella that resides inside the fender. And there are chrome highlights just about everywhere, even on the seat tracks. In a reversal of common mass-production standards, even the surfaces that you can't see--such as the inside of the center console--are covered in the finest butter-soft leather. As in the sedan, there's a switch in the glove box that lowers the Spirit of Ecstasy mascot into the grille, a process that's hugely amusing.

This mighty V-12 really does suit the Rolls. With 75 percent of engine power available from only 1000 rpm, the car's throttle response is relaxed but potent--0 to 60 mph is achieved in just 5.7 seconds, according to the factory, and the top speed is limited to 149 mph. With a shorter wheelbase than its sedan sibling, the Drophead turns in with a bit more agility, but this car does not by any stretch provide a sporting experience.

To each their own... The Drophead seems to be more analogous to something like a 48h gold-plated Phil Wood wheelset built up on gold-plated Sun Rhynolite XL rims, with titanium spokes and gold-plated nipples, shod with a set of tires made from the hides of Japanese Wagyu cattle.

Even an Aston Martin DB9 Volante would be too portly to represent the Topolino's minimalist design and innovative use of composites to achieve the lightest, most comfortable performance tandem-specific wheelset on the market which, while expensive at $1,350.00 a set, is certainly less expensive than LEW, Lightweight, or some of the other exotics built around Zipp rims.

Like Topolino wheels you'll not see see one on every block . . .
Attention to detail . . .
Like the looks . . .
Best service . . .
Pricey . . .
Pedal on!
Rudy

Like Topolino wheels you'll not see see one on every block . . .
Attention to detail . . .
Like the looks . . .
Best service . . .
Pricey . . .
Pedal on!
Rudy

Since we're the only two playing around in this thread, I'll indulge you on this one...

I'll grant you, the Rolls does embody those characteristics; however, the Rolls is just so far over the top when it comes to the excesses, sheer mass, and arrogance that it just doesn't capture how the Topolino's humbly blend proven technologies into a new form where the looks defy the weight and performance.

Since I am a bit of a automobile enthusiast and, like most auto enthusiasts, I'm addicted to the BBC's show Top Gear; let me share some links to previous shows captured on YouTube where both the Drop Head and the Wiesmann MF 3 are reviewed.

First up, the Rolls... in all of it's $.5M USD glory and excess.

Rolls-Royce Phantom Drop Head Coupe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHLEGB6wlGw)

Now, here's a real treat. It just so happens that the Wiesmann was reviewed along side the TVR Tuscan and, as luck would have it, these two roadsters embody some of the same performance characteristics that I found when comparing my Topolino AX 3.0T wheelset with the new and improved '08 version of Rolf's Prima Vigor Tandem wheelset (remembering, my '07's are just fine, thank you very much). Again, the key to the Wiesmann's relationship to Topolino is how they took proven technologies -- the running gear of a BMW M3 -- and repackaged it into an entirely unexpected new form to create an amazing product whose performance seems almost improbable: lightweight, comfortable, distinctive looking, devoid of fluff and farkle and perfectly balanced handling... all for a price that while certainly not inexpensive, is certainly affordable when compared with the far-more exotic roadsters and spiders from Ferrari, Lamborghini and Porsche.

Wiesmann MF 3 (Topolino) vs. TVR Tuscan (Rolf Prima Vigor) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVOU2ZORiPw)

Disclaimer: Next to our very affordable Honda S2000, the Wiesmann is my favorite contemporary pure roadster.

Well, asides from tandems we also have Honda in common! Wouldn't mind owning the Euro version of Accord Wagon!
Do enjoy eyeballing older collectible cars, RR, Bentley, Pierce Arrow, MBs, Alfas, even the odd MG and Bugatti. Never had the yen (or $$) to own one!
Will be out of touch for a few days as we are headed north, and eventually south, back to Tucson. had a great 3 months in Logan, UT, with some good tandeming!
Pedal on!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

With such close tolerances with the disc, do you find it is difficult to replace the wheel without scratching the stays?



I'll chime in on this one. Our Calfee frame IS painted and we are running a rear disc 100% of the time and we do have a couple of minor cosmetic scratches from removing replacing the rear wheel.

The fix - some touch up paint (good news is that it is on the inside of the stay and mostly out of view) and now when I remove or replace the rear wheel, I slide a rag in between the disc and the stay.

Dan

That Shimano XTR M960-965 in-line gear position indicator looks pretty interesting. Currently my stoker is my gear position indicator and something like this might be useful. Where would I get one of these? I looked on the Shimano site and couldn't find them.

Where would I get one of these?

I've gotten one from Universal Cycles (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=16743&category=1613) and a second one from Cambria Bicycle Outfitter, who had a much better price. However, it would seem I bought Cambria's last one from inventory as I remember trying to buy 2 and receiving a back-order notice. I settled for the one they had in stock and just noticed they don't have it on their Website at the moment.

The only caveats I need to provide:


The first is, given you're most likely running Campy on your Rodriguez, the ferrules on these things are made for Shimano's 4mm cable housing, not Campy's 5mm housing. On my first indicator I reamed out both the entry and exit ferrules by hand with a drill bit (it's relatively soft plastic) so that I could accommodate Campy housing on both ends. However, the lower ferrule proved to be too thin and cracked when I was turning the handlebars to load the tandem in our truck. On the second try I only reamed out the top ferrule and elected to use Shimano's 4mm housing for the short segment that ran into the head tube's integrated cable stop.

The second is, you need to have a clean cut on the end of your derailleur cable before it will feed through the little orange indicator that sits inside the clear tube. Moreover, I found I needed to pop off the top ferrule and hand thread the cable through the indicator to keep from damaging the cable end AND I also needed to manually position the indicator on the cable so that it would fall in the right graduated segments of the clear tube when it was in the granny, middle, and big rings. Once it's set-up right, everything seems to stay put quite nicely. It's been wonderful to have that little helper for the front chain rings. I really don't need an indicator for the cassette as I can usually figure out if the chain is in the upper 1/3, middle 1/3, or lower 1/3 of the cogs once I know which chain ring I'm in.

Given how your Rodriguez most likely uses standard downtube cable stops, I don't think you'll have any problem finding a convenient place to put the indicator as there's a lot of visible cable between that stop and the handlebar tape. On the Calfee, there just wasn't a lot of housing to work with. The final installation actually turned out just fine and should make it for the long haul.

Tandem Geek,

I very much appreciate the sharing of the design and subsequent evaluation and tweaking of your Calfee experience. Even when the comments are subjective, I enjoy reading your perceptions.

Bloomington, IN

Where would I get one of these?


I've gotten one from Universal Cycles (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=16743&category=1613) and a second one from Cambria Bicycle Outfitter, who had a much better price. However, it would seem I bought Cambria's last one from inventory as I remember trying to buy 2 and receiving a back-order notice. I settled for the one they had in stock and just noticed they don't have it on their Website at the moment.

I've checked the Universal Cycles website and it appears that they only have one in their Portland warehouse. They want $12.00 - which doesn't bother me - but the shipping is $8.50! The shipping-to-price ratio seems a bit much for an item that you could send in a envelope.

I did a google search and found several 9- and 10-speed inline gear indicators, but no more 3-speed ones. Are there any differences between them other than the number of gradations on the indicator? In other words; would a 9-speed indicator work as a 3-speed indicator just by noting whether the orange line was at either end or in the middle? Also, how is the orange indicator attached to the cable? Is it a friction fit or does it tighten on somehow? Since once installed it's inside a clear plastic tube, how do you adjust it to indicate properly? Thanks.

Are there any differences between them other than the number of gradations on the indicator? In other words; would a 9-speed indicator work as a 3-speed indicator just by noting whether the orange line was at either end or in the middle?

I use a nine speed indicator on both sides and they work great...for the front derailleur position you simply note where it is at on the 9 speed indicator, just as you stated. The little orange thingy is a friction fit that goes over the cable so no lube in that area of the cable. These indicators have been dead reliable for us and are have saved my bacon many times when I've lost track of exactly where I'm at on the gears. Good luck

Bill J.

Quick tip - don't spend hours trying to thread the cable through as I did. The ends of the gear indicator just pull off, then you can thread it in 1 minute.

Personally I use a rear deraileur indicator only as I have an automatic front deraileur indicator. The stoker usually asks me 'we have been going uphill for a while now, do you really want to be in the big ring?'.

Quick tip - don't spend hours trying to thread the cable through as I did. The ends of the gear indicator just pull off, then you can thread it in 1 minute.

+1. This "end" of the indicator is what I was referring to as the "top ferrule" in my earlier posting. It takes a little bit of effort, but they do pop off.

Huh? It is a 2-minute job, at worst. Just have a good clean cable end, and it goes right through.

Huh? It is a 2-minute job, at worst. Just have a good clean cable end, and it goes right through.

If that was your experience then lets go with the usual caveat, "individual results may vary".

IF you find that for whatever reason your derailleur cable doesn't want to cleanly feed through the little orange donut indicator DON'T force it, as you'll find yourself with deformed cable strands. Instead, pop off one of the ends / ferrules, extract the little orange donut and twist it onto the end of your cable to get it started. After that, just pull a foot of cable through the donut, reinsert the cable and donut in the indicator housing, and snap the end /ferrule back on.

Note to Calfee owners- The "spud" bolts in my single came loose, and I started a thread on it over on the Calfee forum. I assume the tandems use the same system in the rear dropout, but if not please excuse my waste of bandwidth.

http://www.bikefanclub.com/forum/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/9927/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1

dan

Note to Calfee owners- The "spud" bolts in my single came loose.

In case anyone wants to know what 'spud' bolts are and how they figure into the construction of a Calfee's rear drop-out design I threw together some details at the following linked webpage (just click on the image below):


(http://www.thetandemlink.com/Images/Calfee/spuds.jpg)

In the event it's not obvious from my comments on the Web page what 'spuds' are, they are the M5 bolts you see holding the various stays to the titanium drop-out.

Well, it finally happened. I put the first scuff marks on the unpainted carbon frame this past weekend and, per Murphy's Law, the marks were right smack-dab in the middle of my top tube where I'm forced to look at it all the time.

As it was with the dent that I put in the Erickson last June, it was one of those things where the tandem's stoker bars were leaning up against a post in the garage (this time while putting air in the tires before heading out for a ride) when the tandem rolled backward causing the frame to come in contact with the post. On the bright side, the part where it actually hit the post is padded to protect car-doors from getting nicked and dented. However, the padding stops about 2' from the garage floor and it was the top tube sliding down against the steel pole that created the scuff marks and scratches as the tires slid out from under the bike on the smooth concrete floor.

While I was somewhat surprised at how soft the carbon was, I did find some comfort in recognizing I was still in better shape than I would have been had the frame been painted or clear-coated. Before following my instincts and 'cleaning up' the scuff marks on my own I double-checked with James at Calfee who confirmed it was rather straight forward. Fifteen minutes later, some light sanding with a fine-grit scuff pad followed up by some medium steel wool and then fine steel wool had removed 99% of the blemish. A little solvent to clean things up and then a healthy re-coating of the frame with UV protectant (RaggTopp is still my preference over 303) and its good as new.

Again, this little episode reaffirms going with the unpainted / nude finish on our Calfees was the right choice for us. They don't have that eye-popping bling you'll see on the translucent & clear-coated carbon frames, but I really like the raw, unfinished look as well as the durability / repairability of the finish. The latter has also allowed us to have the rework mentioned in this latest journal update performed for minimal cost and in minimal time as there was no paint work required.

Bottom Line: Raw carbon is NOT impervious to nicks and scratches; however, despite being a bit softer than I expected it is very easy to live with.

Fifteen minutes later, some light sanding with a fine-grit scuff pad followed up by some medium steel wool and then fine steel wool had removed 99% of the blemish.

I'll try this with our dings from the rear disc. They are not noticable however since they are on the inside of the chainstay. I'm now using the soft rag disc removal process as suggested by colotandem and it seems to be working.

I'll try this with our dings from the rear disc.

Just to be clear, this was for a superficial blemish... something analogous to hitting a light scuff mark on a car's clear coat with some rubbing compound by hand.

Just from my little touch-up it was pretty clear that you could quickly remove a lot of material if you used more aggressive materials or a heavy hand, and that would be a bad thing.

Again, best to check in with the folks at Calfee (James for repairs) before taking it upon yourself to address anything out of the norm with one of their frames... if only to ensure you do not inadvertently void any part of your 25 year frame warranty.

Just from my little touch-up it was pretty clear that you could quickly remove a lot of material if you used more aggressive materials or a heavy hand, and that would be a bad thing.


True. I would think if you expose some of the carbon fiber, water could be absorbed, which could then cause delamination.

True. I would think if you expose some of the carbon fiber, water could be absorbed, which could then cause delamination.

Actually, I thinking more along the lines of creating stress risers or simply removing too much material in critical places. Regardless, best to check in with the home office before taking matters into your own hands.

Before I installed the rear disc on my CoMo - I put some clear vinyl guard "tape" that MotoX guys use on their bikes. It's similar to the stuff that is used for chain guards on bikes - but is about twice as thick. Still clear and you can't see it - but certainly protects the area from scratches or scrapes from the disc.

Before I installed the rear disc on my CoMo - I put some clear vinyl guard "tape" that MotoX guys use on their bikes. It's similar to the stuff that is used for chain guards on bikes - but is about twice as thick. Still clear and you can't see it - but certainly protects the area from scratches or scrapes from the disc.

We're talking about very narrow clearances here. If it is thick enough to protect, it will have to be removed or it will rub. The disc will cut through thin and/or soft plastic.

Another thing I learned is that ordinary adhesives will not stick to bare carbon.

We're talking about very narrow clearances here. If it is thick enough to protect, it will have to be removed or it will rub. The disc will cut through thin and/or soft plastic.

Another thing I learned is that ordinary adhesives will not stick to bare carbon.

Well I certainly don't know what the clearances are - but my disc won't cut this stuff that easily. It's probably 1mm thick or so and the adhesive is pretty strong. Just a suggestion.

Well I certainly don't know what the clearances are - but my disc won't cut this stuff that easily. It's probably 1mm thick or so and the adhesive is pretty strong. Just a suggestion.

I think it's the 303 protectant that gives it a slippery surface causing nothing to stick to it. I would like to use that tape on my other bikes though.

Here's a picture of the clearance from TandemGeek's Calfee Journal.

Well, it finally happened. I put the first scuff marks on the unpainted carbon frame this past weekend and, per Murphy's Law, the marks were right smack-dab in the middle of my top tube where I'm forced to look at it all the time.

Since I mount the tandem by leaning the bike away from me and stepping over the top tube I knew that I would occassionally kick the tube and damage the paint, so the shop put two chainstay protectors on it for me. I know that it's kind of like using plastic seat covers to protect upholstery but it's not all that noticeable and works pretty good. I would like to use something like this to keep the cable housings from eventually wearing though the paint where they go around the headtube. It's too late now, but I wish I there was something I could have done to protect the dropouts (I miss the old chrome-plated dropouts.)

I would like to use something like this to keep the cable housings from eventually wearing though the paint where they go around the headtube.

The last time I bought any of those clear, stick-on chainstay protectors the brand I bought -- Stay Tuff -- would always have six clear, stick-on round discs for just that purpose included in the package. If they don't still come that way you can certainly buy one of the clear chainstay protectors and them cut it up into however many smaller pieces you need to protect the contact spots. I've also used color-keyed small strips of vinyl electricians tape and a few other more obscure products to protect frame finishes.

I wish there was something I could have done to protect the dropouts

Yeah, the top coat gets buggered up but the primer coat seems to hold up well as I've never seen any rust develop around the steel drop-outs on our Ericksons... photo of our 10-year old fork that had about 13,000 miles on it before being set aside for a carbon fork sitting next to our spare Alpha Q.

Must be nice to have money to spend on dream bikes instead of scraping by day to day.

Must be nice to have money to spend on dream bikes instead of scraping by day to day.


:thumb:

I count my blessings daily, take care of first things first, try not to take things for granted, and live for today while being mindful things can change in a hurry.

Now that the fall weather is upon us, I finally did a full-fledged installation of the Avid BB7 Road rear disc brake on our Calfee as we'll be running the disc compatible 36° White Ind / Deep-Vs until next spring. As in the past, installation was a no-brainer because of the caliper positioning (CPS) bolts and add-on compression spring.

We were able to get in a pretty good ride yesterday where I intentionally over-used the rear brake to accelerate the bedding-in process over our 30 mile / 2,300' regular loop ride from the house and by the time we were headed back down the 8% grade into our community I was able to get the rear wheel to lock using only the rear brake on the descent. Today we did an in-town ride with three other couples. For those who don't know, the city of Atlanta and its surrounding communities north of I20 are actually quite hilly in many areas. Anyway, as I did yesterday, I intentionally overused the rear disc brake and by about 1/2 way through the ride the stopping power was well on its way towards what I would call "normal" for an Avid BB7 with 203mm rotor. It's been over a year since we'd ridden our '02 Erickson which also had the Avid BB7 and it was nice to have a really grippy rear brake back on the tandem. We really don't need it for most of the rides we do locally, but it's wonderful to have when we head up to Chattanooga, TN, which is only about a hour and a few minutes to the North.

[/URL]

My previous installation was simply fit checks with the Rolfs and the White Ind MI6 when we first took delivery of the tandem. As you'll recall, the MI6 rear hub with the bolt-on rotor made for a tight fit up against the Calfee's rear chainstay (http://www.thetandemlink.com/Images/Calfee/avidbb7.jpg). I'm pleased to report there's more than enough room now that I'm back to using a thread-on DT adapter with the White Ind Daisy hub.

[URL="http://www.thetandemlink.com/Images/Calfee/avidrotor.jpg"]

As you'll recall, the MI6 rear hub with the bolt-on rotor made for a tight fit up against the Calfee's rear chainstay (http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=80101&d=1220487458). I'm pleased to report there's more than enough room now that I'm back to using a thread-on DT adapter with the White Ind Daisy hub.



So, how easy is it to install and remove the wheel with the rotor without scratching the chainstay?

So, how easy is it to install and remove the wheel with the rotor without scratching the chainstay?

Very easy... since there's no paint or clear coat to scratch.

If I really slammed it in there I suspect I could create some cosmetic scuff marks on the inside of the stay but that's about it. A quick cleaning a re-coat with RaggTopp (similar to 303 but lasts a lot longer and doesn't leave a grease slick when it gets wet) would likely make any scuff marks disappear.

However, if our frame was painted or clear coated it would be prudent to put on a narrow strip of clear protective frame tape along the inside of the chain stay as the rotor clearly has a 50/50 chance of making light contact when I install or remove the rear wheel with the rotor attached.

However, if our frame was painted or clear coated it would be prudent to put on a narrow strip of clear protective frame tape along the inside of the chain stay as the rotor clearly has a 50/50 chance of making light contact when I install or remove the rear wheel with the rotor attached.

First thing I did after getting my tandem home was to put a thick piece of clear frame tape on the chainstay opposite the disc. I used stuff that is thicker than the usual stuff for bikes, I got it at a motorcycle shop.

TG,

I’ve read all your posts about your Calfee tandem, and I couldn’t find anything about a shipping case for your coupled Calfee. Did you receive your frame in a shipping case; something like a S&S hard case that Santana uses? Have you travelled with, or shipped, your Calfee tandem yet? Does Calfee sell a packing system that is comparable to the Santana travel case packing system?

Cheers,
Geocyclist

I’ve read all your posts about your Calfee tandem, and I couldn’t find anything about a shipping case for your coupled Calfee.

I kept the cases that I acquired for our Erickson travel tandem:

[/URL]

You can find a plethora of information about how we packed the Erickson and our switch from a pair of the original S&S hard cases to the Parker hard case & S&S softside backpack case [URL="http://www.thetandemlink.com/articles/ericksontravel/Ericksonpack.html"]HERE (http://www.thetandemlink.com/articles/ericksontravel/Ericksonpack.html).

Calfee and other travel tandem producers sell what S&S offers and, in some instances, derivatives like our pull-behind, ribbed case.

Having done a lot of looking around at the various case options, I suspect Parker is probably the same company from who S&S and Santana source their cases.

I suspect anyone who was so motivated can obtain the same foam inserts in sheet form and an extra wide case like the one Santana uses for it's "Safecase" and then make their own shadow-box for the frame parts. Cost would likely end up on par with the Safecase as there aren't a lot of deals to be had on specialty cases like this when you're buying a one-of instead of a EOQ buy as Santana or S&S would likely do. Co-Motion lists what they call a hybrid case which may or may not be an S&S offering which is also worth a look-see.

I would note that I did send off the padded velcro frame covering material with our Erickson so I must still decide what I will do to protect our frame inside the case. Given how the weight limits keep coming down, I suspect I'll go with a set of custom-made shadow-box foam inserts that will accommodate the frame pieces and perhaps the handlebars in the hard case and continue to use the soft case for my wheels, saddles, crankset and tool boxes.

I kept the cases that I acquired for our Erickson travel tandem:

[/URL]

You can find a plethora of information about how we packed the Erickson and our switch from a pair of the original S&S hard cases to the Parker hard case & S&S softside backpack case [URL="http://www.thetandemlink.com/articles/ericksontravel/Ericksonpack.html"]HERE (http://www.thetandemlink.com/articles/ericksontravel/Ericksonpack.html).

Calfee and other travel tandem producers sell what S&S offers and, in some instances, derivatives like our pull-behind, ribbed case.

Having done a lot of looking around at the various case options, I suspect Parker is probably the same company from who S&S and Santana source their cases.

I suspect anyone who was so motivated can obtain the same foam inserts in sheet form and an extra wide case like the one Santana uses for it's "Safecase" and then make their own shadow-box for the frame parts. Cost would likely end up on par with the Safecase as there aren't a lot of deals to be had on specialty cases like this when you're buying a one-of instead of a EOQ buy as Santana or S&S would likely do. Co-Motion lists what they call a hybrid case which may or may not be an S&S offering which is also worth a look-see.

I would note that I did send off the padded velcro frame covering material with our Erickson so I must still decide what I will do to protect our frame inside the case. Given how the weight limits keep coming down, I suspect I'll go with a set of custom-made shadow-box foam inserts that will accommodate the frame pieces and perhaps the handlebars in the hard case and continue to use the soft case for my wheels, saddles, crankset and tool boxes.

Thanks for your reply TG,

I am aware of all the case options available for packing tandems; however, I have yet to find Calfee specific packing system. I could cut my own foam packing; however, I was trying to avoid the long period of trial and error in search of the perfect fit.

Cheers,
Geocyclist

I have yet to find Calfee specific packing system. I could cut my own foam packing; however, I was trying to avoid the long period of trial and error in search of the perfect fit.

Fortunately or unfortunately, with all but the Santana Stow-aways & their optional safecases you're left to come up with the best packing solution for your travel tandem and it does take a few hours sitting there with your disassembled tandem to figure out the best way to make it all fit. And, frankly, the reason I have the photo show illustrating how our Erickson was packed was to give me a guide when we travelled as I had those photos taped to the inside lid of our case. Having those pictures eliminated the guess work and always insured the tandem was packed correctly.

Now, that said, I'd bet you a beer that a fairly stock Calfee tandem would fit right into a Santana Safe-case with little or no modifications... assuming it was built with the S&S couplers installed on both ends of the stoker compartment. If you were really interested in that type of packing system I'm sure you could call Santana and provide them with the frame dimensions of your Calfee and they'd be able to say yes it will or no it won't fit. If it did, I'm sure they'd gladly sell you one.

Frankly, I'm not all that clear on how they adjust the shadow boxes for the different size frames aside from having four different sets of dies for cutting the foam. But, in any case, the biggest difference that comes to mind would be positioning of top tube on the front triangle, the positioning of the seat stays on the rear triangle, and of course the extra 3/4" of boom & top tubes. You'd have some extra cut-outs in the Safe-case for the Santana's internal tube if you've got one of the newer Calfee tandem with the open frame, but beyond that they should be pretty close with one other exception: I'm not sure if the Safe-case assumes all stokers use bull-horns or if they are designed to accommodate two sets of drop-bars.

The counterpoint here is, Santana's case is oversized both in its dimensions and weight by the current standards and there's not much you can do about that aside from reducing some of the weight by putting the wheels in wheelbags, etc... Of course, once you start to do that you diminish some of the value of the Safe-case.

Now, having lived with our Erickson travel tandem, using the padded velcro stuff was the real PIA when it came to packing and unpacking and probably consumed more time than the actual disassembly and assembly of the tandem, noting I'm pretty good with erector sets. On the other hand, it did a really good job of protecting the frame both during the disassembly / assembly process (assuming you tailor it such a way that it can stay on the frame throughout the process) and when the frame is packed in the case. With a padded case and painted frame, you must now take extra care in how you handle and move the frame during the assembly and disassembly process so as not to bang an unprotected tube into something or scuff it up by laying it on an unpadded surface. The latter is again one of the reasons that I found the unpainted carbon to be an attractive option for a travel tandem, noting that here-to-fore I always thought an unpainted titanium frame was top dog for durability and damage resistance as a travel tandem. It was the cost-prohibitive nature of the domestic-made titanium frames that put us on a painted steel frame in the first place and were it not for the lower price of the new open Calfee frame designs I'm not sure we'd have gone down that road either. As it is, a Calfee frame with couplers is about the same price as a non-coupled domestic titanium frame.

But I digress.... Again, I've yet to decide if I'll buy some more of the padded velcro material for our Calfee, or if I'll do my own safe-case foam inserts as previously mentioned. Once I do you can rest assured there will be a photo guide to packing and you'll be free to plagiarize it. Good hunting.

[QUOTE=TandemGeek;7736757]Now that the fall weather is upon us, I finally did a full-fledged installation of the Avid BB7 Road rear disc brake on our Calfee as we'll be running the disc compatible 36° White Ind / Deep-Vs until next spring. As in the past, installation was a no-brainer because of the caliper positioning (CPS) bolts and add-on compression spring.


I see in your photo you added an auxiliary return spring in your brake installation. Has it provided you any benefit? I ask because I included that spring in my initial installation on the Santana but could notice no benefit. So I removed it. I didn't get that spring in the BB7 brake set from Alex for the Ventana. The Ventana brakes feel just right without the auxiliary spring.

I see in your photo you added an auxiliary return spring in your brake installation. Has it provided you any benefit?

It's not as dramatic as it was on the '02 Avid BB7 installation on our Erickson travel tandem as I suspect SRAM/Avid has beefed up the spring. However, it's a subtle difference but the rather beefy compression springs I use allow me to put a little more preload on the brake cable and that seems to have two benefits:


1. It gives the Campy levers we use a nice, consistent feel through the full range of motion and eliminates the little bit of slop that seems to exist over the first .5" of the lever stroke without the compression spring.

2. It ensures the actuating arm / outboard pad always pulls back smartly and eliminates even minor rotor rub.

Definitely not a stock Avid part, just my own little tweak.

Definitely not a stock Avid part, just my own little tweak.

What with Dia-Compe 287V brake levers on the road bike and vintage XT levers on the MTB my Avid brake setup is not too stock either.