Advocacy & Safety - Stupid cop

I was riding down Main Street in my city a few minutes ago at around 20mph. This is a two lane road marked as a 'Bike Route,' defined as a road that is shared by bikes and motor vehicles. I was coming home, trying to beat an approaching storm, when a police cruiser pulls up beside me and says something. I don't hear what he says, so I ask him to repeat. He says, 'the bike lane on main street is the sidewalk!' I am incensed and almost positive he is wrong, but since I don't know for sure I quickly hop on the sidewalk to appease him. I have to slow almost completely because there is no path to get down off the sidewalk. :mad:

I just looked up what 'Bike Route' meant in my city, something I already assumed because of the miles and miles of bike routes where there are no sidewalks. I wish I would have challenged this dolt more, but I will be calling the police office tomorrow to let them know some of their police need to brush up on traffic laws.

Just wanted to vent.

(edit) The speed limit on Main Street is 30 or 35. I can't remember what it was at that exact location.

Stupid, maybe. Seemingly misinformed though it is always possible that, by ordinance, the sidewalk is a bike route in that location. I hope for just a misinformed LEO.

One not need to be a genius to be a good cop, but one does have to be willing to endure continuously unhappy and stressful situations.

If he wanted to talk to you he should have pulled you over. I'd wager they even have written procedures to that effect. Conversations with people in moving cars next to you are ridiculously distracting, and far more dangerous than anything you were doing. Whether or not he was correct, he didn't handle it very well. I'd be calling his superior officer.

If he wanted to talk to you he should have pulled you over. I'd wager they even have written procedures to that effect. Conversations with people in moving cars next to you are ridiculously distracting, and far more dangerous than anything you were doing. Whether or not he was correct, he didn't handle it very well. I'd be calling his superior officer.

No kidding. He was also holding up traffic more than I was :lol: I wish I would have asked for his name, but it's all over now...

I was so confused by what was happening that I couldn't think of anything to say. A few weeks back someone posted an incident that happened here about a crazy lady getting out of her truck during a charity ride and confronting a group of cyclists. My mom was in a car accident two weeks ago, right after that event, and the officer taking her statement in the hospital had a bike patch sewn on his uniform. He told me she had been 'dealt with.' I thought cops in my town were very aware of bike laws...

I was riding down Main Street in my city a few minutes ago at around 20mph. This is a two lane road marked as a 'Bike Route,' defined as a road that is shared by bikes and motor vehicles.

FYI, I know of no state who's laws say that any public road that does not explicitly prohibit cyclists is not a road shared by cyclists and motorists. Basically, if it's a public road and there's no sign saying cyclists are prohibited, it's perfectly legal for you to use it, regardless of what ill-informed police officers might think (and I've talked to quite a few of them). Bike route signs are mainly posted so that city planners can pat themselves on the back and get photo-ops.

See if you can do what I did for another issue I had; look up the local and state laws on the www, and when you find the specific ordinance relating to your issue, get the ordinance #. Go to the city clerk's office (or whatever they call the equivalent there), and get an 'official' copy. Read it, learn it, and use it. When they're in the wrong the next time, get the squad car's #, call desk sgt. right away, and report it, giving location as close as you can get.

I was high-tailing it to beat the storm home from the airport earlier you speak of... I know exactly what your talking about with cops in norman and the way many, but not all of them deal with cyclists. For the most part, those residing here convey a very un-welcoming feeling for cyclist. And yeah the bicycling signs in norman are a complete joke, they are on just about every narrow two-lane, curbed, rough, and heavy traffic road here. Like joejack951 said, it really seems their only purpose is to appear "bike friendly", which couldnt be further from the truth in some areas.

barerider, I'm sure you have dealt with OU campus police. A couple friends and I were cuffed and harassed by what became 5 squad cars and 6 officers for 30 min. one night for riding our bikes to the top of a vacant parking garage to watch the sunset. Granted there are signs stating no bikes, but 6 squad cars full of hot-head cops yelling in your face how you are a criminal, I mean really...

Anyways, enough of my *****ing. Norman is acutally pretty nice to ride through due to campus and all the residential neighborhoods around it. There is just so much un-tapped potential for it becoming a true "bike friendly" town, it makes me wish we could do more

FYI, I know of no state who's laws say that any public road that does not explicitly prohibit cyclists is not a road shared by cyclists and motorists. Basically, if it's a public road and there's no sign saying cyclists are prohibited, it's perfectly legal for you to use it, regardless of what ill-informed police officers might think (and I've talked to quite a few of them). Bike route signs are mainly posted so that city planners can pat themselves on the back and get photo-ops.

City planners don't get the photo-ops, its the politicians. Been there, done that from the planning side for 20 years.

Often a Policeman will say something apparently stupid just to get a reaction. Maybe you blew a light and the police officer didn't quite see it, possibly you fit the description of a suspect they're cruising for. So whenever they say anything you think is daft, don't immediately assume you're dealing with an idiot, pull the wind out of their sails by immediately complying, and think on what it might be that has caused them to interact with you.

If it is really annoying write a letter of complaint. Main thing to remember is not to argue with the officer in the street with no other witnesses about.

See if you can do what I did for another issue I had; look up the local and state laws on the www, and when you find the specific ordinance relating to your issue, get the ordinance #. Go to the city clerk's office (or whatever they call the equivalent there), and get an 'official' copy. Read it, learn it, and use it. When they're in the wrong the next time, get the squad car's #, call desk sgt. right away, and report it, giving location as close as you can get.

Agreed, except I'd start making calls as soon as you've done your research, which should be now. Call the police HQ, city council, the mayor, and any other elected official over the cop. Be polite, and ask that the cops be told about cyclists rights at roll call or other trainings.

main st. norman? if so, which part. the only part i remember thats 2 lane is between classen and sooner. or are you talkin way west?

Often a Policeman will say something apparently stupid just to get a reaction. Maybe you blew a light and the police officer didn't quite see it, possibly you fit the description of a suspect they're cruising for. So whenever they say anything you think is daft, don't immediately assume you're dealing with an idiot, pull the wind out of their sails by immediately complying, and think on what it might be that has caused them to interact with you.

If it is really annoying write a letter of complaint. Main thing to remember is not to argue with the officer in the street with no other witnesses about.

Wow. This is precisely the wrong attitude to have when talking with an officer who has no apparent reason to stop you, and who has not identified the reason that you are being talked to.

Unless you are being detained by the police (pulled over and stopped) for a specific reason articulated by the officer, you have no legal responsibility to answer them or otherwise interact with them. You can avoid further trouble by giving them the most basic of responses, but you should never assume that they are always right and just comply. That is the kind of attitude that has led to officers thinking that they can get away with intimidating citizens into giving up their rights, and to citizens inherently mistrusting all officers.

I am not saying you should be argumentative or confrontational. Know your rights, and don't give them up. Be calm, confident and assertive in what you are saying. If there is a dispute between you and the officer concerning the law, have them get their immediate superior on the horn to confirm it. However, if that doesn't work, and they are hell-bent on giving you a ticket or worse, take note of everything that transpires, lawyer up and get the "charges" dropped.



barerider, I'm sure you have dealt with OU campus police. A couple friends and I were cuffed and harassed by what became 5 squad cars and 6 officers for 30 min. one night for riding our bikes to the top of a vacant parking garage to watch the sunset. Granted there are signs stating no bikes, but 6 squad cars full of hot-head cops yelling in your face how you are a criminal, I mean really...

That is when a corroborating letter from each person to the department, supplying names and badge numbers if available, and detailing the incident of harassment, is in order. A letter to the local paper or news channel is a must as well. Hold the few bad apples responsible for their bone-head actions, and make sure the press puts pressure on them as well.

Argue with him. I argue with cops all the time when they are wrong. Just signal him to pull over and calmly but forcefully ask him what authority he has for making you get off the street. Ask him for the statute or ordinance. Most cops, while unlikely to admit they are wrong, won't push it if they are wrong. If he continues to insist, ask him to call his LT and get him involved.

pull the wind out of their sails by immediately complying, and think on what it might be that has caused them to interact with you.

Why should I have to do that? I wouldn't mouth off to an officer, and I wouldn't throw a tantrum, but I would not shrink away in immediate compliance, either. Tell him/her politely but firmly that he/she is wrong and that you are within your right to be using the roadway. . . that is, if you are certain of your facts.

My son was recently stopped in his car by a policeman at 3:00 AM in the morning. He was not speeding, not under the influence, and does not use (and did not possess) any controlled substances.

Now, we all know that officers are on the lookout at that hour for DUI, but that does not give the officer the right to simply stop a driver just to check. One must act in a manner to raise suspicion or commit some infraction, even if trivial.

In my son's case, it is clear the cop was quite disappointed that he found nothing. We are pursuing the matter . . . in this country, a cop cannot simply pull you over and interrogate you as to your purpose on the road, the contents of your vehicle, where you are going, where you have been.

Unless we commit some infraction, we have the absolute right to enjoy unrestricted use of public roadways. While (as I hear beaten around here quite a lot) operating a motor vehicle is a privilege, that privilege cannot unreasonably be withheld or interrupted by a police officer or any other government official. If you qualify for a motor vehicle license, states cannot unreasonably deny you one.

If you are operating your bike on a public roadway that has no special restrictions regarding vehicle class, then no one (not even a policeman/woman) has the right to interfere with your use of that roadway.

You are not required to comply with unreasonable requests of police officers. In this case, if I read the OP correctly, the officer did not order the OP to the sidewalk, just made a statement that implied he should be riding on the sidewalk, not in the street. Perhaps the officer is ignorant, was having a bad day, or just felt like messing with the OP's head, we'll never know for certain. What we do know is that he was wrong.

Caruso

I was high-tailing it to beat the storm home from the airport earlier you speak of... I know exactly what your talking about with cops in norman and the way many, but not all of them deal with cyclists. For the most part, those residing here convey a very un-welcoming feeling for cyclist. And yeah the bicycling signs in norman are a complete joke, they are on just about every narrow two-lane, curbed, rough, and heavy traffic road here. Like joejack951 said, it really seems their only purpose is to appear "bike friendly", which couldnt be further from the truth in some areas.

barerider, I'm sure you have dealt with OU campus police. A couple friends and I were cuffed and harassed by what became 5 squad cars and 6 officers for 30 min. one night for riding our bikes to the top of a vacant parking garage to watch the sunset. Granted there are signs stating no bikes, but 6 squad cars full of hot-head cops yelling in your face how you are a criminal, I mean really...

Anyways, enough of my *****ing. Norman is acutally pretty nice to ride through due to campus and all the residential neighborhoods around it. There is just so much un-tapped potential for it becoming a true "bike friendly" town, it makes me wish we could do more

That turned out to be quite the storm. I've only lived in Norman since May, I was in Edmond for the past four years. I've had no problems here other than this and in fact was very happy to meet a policeman who had a bike sewn onto his uniform, at another time. I have never felt like a cop thought I didn't belong on the road, until last night.


main st. norman? if so, which part. the only part i remember thats 2 lane is between classen and sooner. or are you talkin way west?

Should have been more clear. It was two lanes going east bound, by the old Hobby Lobby, a little west of University st. This is right before it turns into a three lane, one way road.

And no, I hadn't run any lights or committed any traffic violation. I was riding out in the center of the lane because there are parked cars lining the street. I knew I could ride on the road (or any road) but because I couldn't quote anything I just did what he said and then immediately got back on the road. Hopefully there won't be a next time for this. If there is, I will be more firm.

In north coastal San Diego County, we had a somewhat similar situation on southbound Coast Highway 101 through Cardiff-by-the-Sea. There is a berm-separated MUP, generally full of dog walkers, board-toting surfers, and contraflow cyclists. adjacent to the 4-lane highway. Faster bicyclists consistently ride in the right lane, 3 to 5 feet away from the cars parallel parked along the berm. We used to hear tales of individual or group riders being ticketed by sheriff's deputies, but we have apparently solved the problem by diplomatically asserting our rights and working up the chain of command.

As you may have already discovered, the city ordinances of Norman, OK expressly allow you to ride in the street.

Section 20-401 expressly gives you all of the same rights to ride on a street as the driver of a motor vehicle:

Sec. 20-401. Traffic laws apply to bicycle riders. Every person riding a bicycle upon a street shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this chapter, except:

(1) As to those special provisions contained in this article; and

(2) As to those provisions of this chapter which by their nature can have no application.Section 20-204 explains your duties regarding positioning when riding in the street:

Sec. 20-404. Riding on streets. (a) Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at less than normal speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway, except under any of the following situations:

(1) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or vehicle proceeding in the same direction.

(2) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway.

(3) When reasonably necessary to avoid conditions including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects, parked or moving vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals or surface hazards.

(b) Any person operating a bicycle on a one-way highway with two (2) or more marked traffic lanes may ride as near the left-hand curb or edge of such roadway as practicable.

(c) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway shall not ride more than two (2) abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside for the exclusive use of bicycles. Persons riding two (2) abreast shall not impede the normal and reasonable use of traffic and, on a laned roadway, shall ride within a single lane.

(d) A person riding a bicycle across a roadway and within a crosswalk shall walk the bicycle as a pedestrian and have all the rights and duties applicable to a pedestrian under the same circumstances.Section 20-403 permits, but does not require, you to ride on the sidewalk. Note, however, that there are apparently places in Norman where riding on the sidewalk is expressly prohibited. (Or, at least, the ordinance allows riding on the sidewalk to be prohibited. Whether or not the appropriate authority has actually prohibited riding on any sidewalks, I can't say.)

Sec. 20-403. Riding on sidewalk. (a) No person shall ride a bicycle or skateboard upon any sidewalk or sidewalk area where such riding is specifically prohibited by signs.

(b) Persons exempt from the provisions of subsection (a) of this section are police officers on bicycles in the normal course of police duties who are exercising due caution.I haven't had a chance to look up the Oklahoma statutes, which would preempt the local ordinance if more restrictive, but my quick Google search indicated that Oklahoma passed a 3 foot passing law in 2006, so I'm guessing that the statute is not any more restrictive about the cyclist's right to the road than this ordinance.

Edit:

The Oklahoma statute also gives you the right to ride in the street:

§47‑11‑1202. Traffic laws apply to persons riding bicycles or motorized scooters.
Every person riding a bicycle or motorized scooter upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this title, except as to special regulations in this article and except to those provisions of this title which by their nature can have no application.

The cop didn't pull you over, or "detain" you. He didn't put on his lights. He was simply expressing his opinion. Cops have the same right to freedom of expression, just like street artists. There are a lot of stupid people in this world. Pretty much an unlimited supply of them, actually. Some of them happen to be cops.

P.S. I would have done the same thing in your situation.

The cop didn't pull you over, or "detain" you. He didn't put on his lights. He was simply expressing his opinion. Cops have the same right to freedom of expression, just like street artists. There are a lot of stupid people in this world. Pretty much an unlimited supply of them, actually. Some of them happen to be cops.

P.S. I would have done the same thing in your situation.

It's quite different when some stranger pulls up to me and tells me the bike lane is the sidewalk and a cop does it. They do have authority and even though he wasn't ordering me to do anything, I perceived it as an order at the moment. If I encounter this situation again I won't get on the sidewalk.

This obviously wasn't a big deal in the grand scheme of life, I was just ticked off that he sat there and tried to have a conversation with me while we were moving at 20mph and that I didn't state my case.

As you may have already discovered, the city ordinances of Norman, OK expressly allow you to ride in the street.

Section 20-401 expressly gives you all of the same rights to ride on a street as the driver of a motor vehicle:


(1) As to those special provisions contained in this article;



I have read the Norman and Oklahoma statutes before, but I wasn't sure if there was some special provision for Main St. It seemed extremely unlikely but I thought since I didn't know I might as well just get him to leave me alone and then continue on my merry way.

You did the right thing. Just the way it is. What are you gonna do, argue with the guy? What for? He'll just cite you for failing to obey a police officer. Did you know that in some jurisdictions, you can be found guilty of failing to obey an officer or even fleeing and eluding an officer if the officer has made some mistake and he's not giving you a lawful command? Sounds silly, but it's true.

...I am incensed ...

Incensed? Really? I guess if I were in your situation, I'd be little ticked off or irritated, but incensed?

By the way, I don't dispute that the cop was wrong, etc. But it just seems an over reaction to a situation like that to be angered so highly.

SideWHAT?

Do any of you guys remember a news story a few years ago about a guy who applied to become a police officer but was turned down because his IQ was too high? I gotta find that story.

EDIT: LOL, looks like people with high IQs are turned away:

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/Insight/viewContentItem.do?contentType=Article&hdAction=lnkhtml&contentId=872402

http://friendfeed.com/e/8eeeb010-3850-11dd-9a5d-003048343a40/CONNECTICUT-Judge-Rules-That-Police-Can-Bar-High/

Imagine you work at a job where they actually refuse employment to smart people!

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You did the right thing. Just the way it is. What are you gonna do, argue with the guy? What for? He'll just cite you for failing to obey a police officer. Did you know that in some jurisdictions, you can be found guilty of failing to obey an officer or even fleeing and eluding an officer if the officer has made some mistake and he's not giving you a lawful command? Sounds silly, but it's true.

Yes, that does seem silly. Which jurisdictions would those be, and what is the statute that allows you to be charged?

The cop didn't pull you over, or "detain" you. He didn't put on his lights. He was simply expressing his opinion. Cops have the same right to freedom of expression, just like street artists. There are a lot of stupid people in this world. Pretty much an unlimited supply of them, actually. Some of them happen to be cops.

P.S. I would have done the same thing in your situation.

I would respectfully disagree. I police officer in uniform in his vehicle can be assumed to be operating in an official capacity. As such, the police officer does not have the "same right to freedom of expression" because there is a strong implication that whatever he says has official and legal sanction.

If the officer wants to exercise his rights of freedom of expression, he can do it on his own time.

I lived in Oklahoma City north of Norman for two years and now live north of San Francisco. I have had Cal state and local police stop and divert motor traffic to make life easier for us bikers when they did not have to. It has been 24 years since I have had any grief from a cop. At that time I pulled out a Caltrans map and leaflet showing that I had a right to be biking where I was biking he immediately backed off. It does help that the Sonoma County Bicycle Coalition has a full time paid director who keeps all the various authorities aware of cyclists' rights. I've backed her up in court twice now.

Incensed? Really? I guess if I were in your situation, I'd be little ticked off or irritated, but incensed?

By the way, I don't dispute that the cop was wrong, etc. But it just seems an over reaction to a situation like that to be angered so highly.

They don't call me the Incredible Hulk for nothing.









OK, so no one calls me that. :(

They don't call me the Incredible Hulk for nothing.
:(

You mean you have to pay them?;)

Do any of you guys remember a news story a few years ago about a guy who applied to become a police officer but was turned down because his IQ was too high? I gotta find that story.

EDIT: LOL, looks like people with high IQs are turned away:

http://www.emeraldinsight.com/Insight/viewContentItem.do?contentType=Article&hdAction=lnkhtml&contentId=872402

http://friendfeed.com/e/8eeeb010-3850-11dd-9a5d-003048343a40/CONNECTICUT-Judge-Rules-That-Police-Can-Bar-High/

Imagine you work at a job where they actually refuse employment to smart people!

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeez, this explains the tendancy for cops to be unreasonable in the face of logic, they really are screened to be stupid.
Pretty crazy, wouldn't you Want the smartest people possible to be the ones supposedly protecting you?

They seem to mention the reason they do that is because they're afraid smart people would get bored with routine patrol work and leave the job... wouldn't someone who is less intelligent just get bored faster for lack of mental discipline? This probably explains why so many cops are jerks who just sit around doing nothing till they feel like harassing people and feeling self important...

You mean you have to pay them?;)

You notice in the bottom of the post I said no one calls me that. I don't make enough to get people to call me that. :) Reminds me of the Seinfeld where George wants to be called T-Bone, but Kruger ends up calling some other guy that instead. Then George gets stuck with Koko :lol:

They don't call me the Incredible Hulk for nothing.

OK, so no one calls me that. :(

Sorry I was kind of jerking your chain on that one. I had a knee jerk reaction to the word. My wife is always she's "incensed" or "livid" about things when she's really just kind of pissed. Things that she doesn't like taste "horrid" or "awful" when really they just don't suit her. So I've developed this bad habit of giving grief when people exaggerate stuff like that.

Maybe you should have gone all IH on the guy though!:thumb:

I will object on principle.



...I've only lived in Norman since May, I was in Edmond for the past four years. I've had no problems here other than this and in fact was very happy to meet a policeman who had a bike sewn onto his uniform, at another time. I have never felt like a cop thought I didn't belong on the road, until last night.


-And you ran (rode) right here to call someone "stupid." Did you post a "Cool Cop" thread for the guy with the bike patch?

Maybe you did, I would hope so.

I did catch the one for the guy who didn't run over your headlight, so I know you can do it. Oh and I saw the one where you advised us "...there ain't no way..." you're stopping for STOP signs when you've decide that it's safe.

Well, at least you're preaching to the choir here. The view from the moral high ground must be wonderful. :thumb:



Jeez, this explains the tendancy for cops to be unreasonable in the face of logic, they really are screened to be stupid.
Pretty crazy, wouldn't you Want the smartest people possible to be the ones supposedly protecting you?

They seem to mention the reason they do that is because they're afraid smart people would get bored with routine patrol work and leave the job... wouldn't someone who is less intelligent just get bored faster for lack of mental discipline? This probably explains why so many cops are jerks who just sit around doing nothing till they feel like harassing people and feeling self important...


So the OP's deal was with the New London Police?

-Oh wait, I get it, all police are the same. Like all cyclists, or all black people, right? :rolleyes:

What a terribly progressive bunch.

I'm feeling that I may not belong here, because I actually make mistakes sometimes. Plus, I was taught, if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. Even if I know that all the other kids will chime in and say, "Yeah dude!" :rolleyes:

-Oh wait, I get it, all police are the same. Like all cyclists, or all black people, right? :rolleyes:

What a terribly progressive bunch.


The situation with cops is different from cyclists and blacks because with the cops, we actually have something Quantifiable to base the fact that they are All stupid on: they all took IQ tests and ones that were too high were rejected for hire (see article above).
This is fact, not something made up like stereotypes against a skin color. :thumb:

The situation with cops is different from cyclists and blacks because with the cops, we actually have something Quantifiable to base the fact that they are All stupid on: they all took IQ tests and ones that were too high were rejected for hire (see article above).
This is fact, not something made up like stereotypes against a skin color. :thumb:



Actually, what we all have, and by "we" I mean those of us that read the article (And you actually had the ignorance-fueled audacity to type, "see the article..." :roflmao2:) is the knowledge that there is a lawsuit against the New London Police Department regarding its hiring practices. I don't know how many officers New London has, but I'd wager you could count them on a few hands.

There are nearly five hundred thousand police officers in the United States.

All American policing is local, and all communities get exactly the police that they deserve. If a community doesn't like things, they may change them instantly at the ballot box. Period. The police answer to elected officials. Always.

So, please keep talking about "they" and "they all."

That's not a "made up" stereotype at all, right? "We" know the "facts." :thumb:

edited: spelling/grammar

So, please keep talking about "they" and "they all."


No.

I Win. :lol:

I will object on principle.





-And you ran (rode) right here to call someone "stupid." Did you post a "Cool Cop" thread for the guy with the bike patch?

Maybe you did, I would hope so.

I did catch the one for the guy who didn't run over your headlight, so I know you can do it. Oh and I saw the one where you advised us "...there ain't no way..." you're stopping for STOP signs when you've decide that it's safe.

Well, at least you're preaching to the choir here. The view from the moral high ground must be wonderful. :thumb:





So the OP's deal was with the New London Police?

-Oh wait, I get it, all police are the same. Like all cyclists, or all black people, right? :rolleyes:

What a terribly progressive bunch.

I'm feeling that I may not belong here, because I actually make mistakes sometimes. Plus, I was taught, if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. Even if I know that all the other kids will chime in and say, "Yeah dude!" :rolleyes:

:lol: Glad to see you follow my posts which I don't doubt contradict one another. I was just blabbing my mouth in that red light thread, I stop for almost every sign and light, running them only occasionally.

I came here to ***** because I didn't have the balls to stand up for myself out there in the real world. I admit my weaknesses. That doesn't mean I do anything about trying to fix them :p

Anyway I don't always follow the 'if you don't have something nice to say...' rule. Apparently it's ok to make some mistakes, but not others. Way to go, Mr. High Horse.

Was it a marked car? I mean was it a real police car with the complete graphics pack and lights on top... or just a car with a PA system?

Was it a marked car? I mean was it a real police car with the complete graphics pack and lights on top... or just a car with a PA system?

The whole shebang. I would've had awful deja vu of John Cusack in Better Off Dead when those two dudes roll up next to him with the PA, commentating on their own race. I couldn't have managed anything but a laugh in that case.

I knew when I posted this that many would agree with my frustration and that some would think I should just let it go. I was mad (not, like Camilo pointed out, incensed) but it has made me start thinking about actual prejudice against cyclists and perceived prejudice. This particular officer was mostly concerned about the fact that some motorists might be angry because I was on a busy road, at least that is what I imagine. I don't think that any of my rights were really violated, as some have pointed out that I wasn't ordered to the sidewalk and I agree (even if a police officer commands authority, it doesn't mean you must do everything they say if you know it to be wrong).

We sometimes get quite carried away in this forum because every time we go out to do something we enjoy, our lives are taken out of our hands. I for one told myself when I started to develop a victim complex to just settle down and understand that it's not all that much different from when in a car -- I am much more vulnerable and many have negative perceptions of cyclists, but very few people are out to get you (unless you live in Raleigh, NC, apparently). My interaction with motorists has been almost nil, unlike some people; maybe people in Oklahoma just keep it to themselves, or maybe I don't hear it when they yell out their windows. Whatever the case, I hate having a victim complex just because I ride a bike. Most people that find out how much I ride think I'm a bit nuts but that's the way of the world sometimes.

I don't care much about bike lanes or bike advocacy. All I care about is conscientious drivers who will wait to pass when it is unsafe, pass safely when they can, and refrain from honking or yelling. It's really not that difficult, and most folks around here seem to understand that. I'm thankful for that.

Sorry for the long ramble. Take it with a grain of salt. I might change my mind tomorrow.

FYI, I know of no state who's laws say that any public road that does not explicitly prohibit cyclists is not a road shared by cyclists and motorists. Basically, if it's a public road and there's no sign saying cyclists are prohibited, it's perfectly legal for you to use it, regardless of what ill-informed police officers might think (and I've talked to quite a few of them). Bike route signs are mainly posted so that city planners can pat themselves on the back and get photo-ops.
There are some places (like Maryland) that require bikes to use bike paths or side paths where available, although a sidewalk is a bit of a stretch. Some of the towns in NOVA have signs that say "Bike route on sidewalk" and the police sometimes enforce it.

There are some places (like Maryland) that require bikes to use bike paths or side paths where available, although a sidewalk is a bit of a stretch. Some of the towns in NOVA have signs that say "Bike route on sidewalk" and the police sometimes enforce it.

Local ordinances cannot trump state law. Those signs should be taken down. Do you have a link for that Maryland law? I'm pretty sure MD does not have a mandatory sidepath law. They do have a mandatory shoulder-use law which is much like a bike lane law with a few exceptions.

Local ordinances cannot trump state law. Those signs should be taken down. Do you have a link for that Maryland law? I'm pretty sure MD does not have a mandatory sidepath law. They do have a mandatory shoulder-use law which is much like a bike lane law with a few exceptions.


Not true. Local governments may pass ordinances concerning local streets that are not state or federal roadways that limit use by certain vehicles, including bicycles. It may vary from state to state.

Local ordinances cannot trump state law. Those signs should be taken down. Do you have a link for that Maryland law? I'm pretty sure MD does not have a mandatory sidepath law. They do have a mandatory shoulder-use law which is much like a bike lane law with a few exceptions.

Maryland State Code 21-1205.1 (b)(1) sorry I can't post text, my cut/paste isn't working.
Maryland's law does not require use of a sidepath unless it is actually connected to the road (part of a bike lane or a paved shoulder). I've only heard of it being enforced a couple of times.

Even though Virgina is under the Dillon Rule, the State Code allows bikes on roads except where prohibited by local ordinance, and then it needs to be posted. Some towns do on some roads and it either has been upheld or not contested in court.

I would respectfully disagree. I police officer in uniform in his vehicle can be assumed to be operating in an official capacity. As such, the police officer does not have the "same right to freedom of expression" because there is a strong implication that whatever he says has official and legal sanction.

If the officer wants to exercise his rights of freedom of expression, he can do it on his own time.

+1

A cop's opinions assume the role of public policy when those opinions are communicated while said cop is on duty/in uniform. Just as I, a high school teacher, would be way out of line for telling a student, "your parents are idiots for letting you act the way you do," that cop is out of line in opining ANYTHING TO ANYONE regarding matters of law. I certainly do THINK the aforementioned thought about some parents sometimes, and yes, in principle I do have the right to hold that opinion, but I have NO right to impose that opinion upon them or their kids while I am functioning as a public-paid servant. Do the job, the whole job, and NOTHING BUT the job when you're on the job.

In north coastal San Diego County, we had a somewhat similar situation on southbound Coast Highway 101 through Cardiff-by-the-Sea. There is a berm-separated MUP, generally full of dog walkers, board-toting surfers, and contraflow cyclists. adjacent to the 4-lane highway. Faster bicyclists consistently ride in the right lane, 3 to 5 feet away from the cars parallel parked along the berm. We used to hear tales of individual or group riders being ticketed by sheriff's deputies, but we have apparently solved the problem by diplomatically asserting our rights and working up the chain of command.

This is the way to do it. The smartest policy is to comply with a direct police order, and then complain about it later.

Maryland State Code 21-1205.1 (b)(1) sorry I can't post text, my cut/paste isn't working.
Maryland's law does not require use of a sidepath unless it is actually connected to the road (part of a bike lane or a paved shoulder). I've only heard of it being enforced a couple of times.

Even though Virgina is under the Dillon Rule, the State Code allows bikes on roads except where prohibited by local ordinance, and then it needs to be posted. Some towns do on some roads and it either has been upheld or not contested in court.

Here's the Maryland code:

(b) (1) Where there is a bike lane paved to a smooth surface or a shoulder paved to a smooth surface, a person operating a bicycle or a motor scooter shall use the bike lane or shoulder and may not ride on the roadway, except in the following situations:
(i) When overtaking and passing another bicycle, motor scooter, pedestrian, or other vehicle within the bike lane or shoulder if the overtaking and passing cannot be done safely within the bike lane or shoulder;
(ii) When preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into an alley, private road, or driveway;
(iii) When reasonably necessary to leave the bike lane or shoulder to avoid debris or other hazardous condition; or
(iv) When reasonably necessary to leave the bike lane or shoulder because the bike lane or shoulder is overlaid with a right turn lane, merge lane, or other marking that breaks the continuity of the bike lane or shoulder.

I think we're just struggling over terminology. The definition I'm using of a sidepath is a path that is much like a sidewalk but wider and intended for use by cyclists. It is not on the same level as the roadway like a shoulder or bike lane would be. Your definition seems to at least include shoulders and bike lanes, hence my confusion.

I need to read up more on the local ordinance deal and figure out exactly what is and is not allowed in terms of restrictions. I spoke a little too soon, probably because the thought of towns banning cyclists from roads "for their own good" really pisses me off.

I think we're just struggling over terminology. The definition I'm using of a sidepath is a path that is much like a sidewalk but wider and intended for use by cyclists. It is not on the same level as the roadway like a shoulder or bike lane would be. Your definition seems to at least include shoulders and bike lanes, hence my confusion.
Example: One Maryland road that I often ride is MacArthur Blvd, from DC to/from Potomac. There is a bike lane/side path/bike path on the east-bound side of the road. Sometimes it is like a shoulder, other times like a bike trail or sidewalk with a planted strip. I've been told by the MoCo Police (who sometime enforce the rules) that bikes are supposed to be in the bike lane when it is connect to the road, but can take the road when the path is separated by the grassy strip. That's how I usually ride it east-bound. Supposedly they want the west-bound bikes to also take (and stay on) the path/bike lanes, but most (including me) take the road instead.

Stupid, maybe. Seemingly misinformed though it is always possible that, by ordinance, the sidewalk is a bike route in that location. I hope for just a misinformed LEO.

One not need to be a genius to be a good cop, but one does have to be willing to endure continuously unhappy and stressful situations.


That can describe a lot of jobs.

Example: One Maryland road that I often ride is MacArthur Blvd, from DC to/from Potomac. There is a bike lane/side path/bike path on the east-bound side of the road. Sometimes it is like a shoulder, other times like a bike trail or sidewalk with a planted strip. I've been told by the MoCo Police (who sometime enforce the rules) that bikes are supposed to be in the bike lane when it is connect to the road, but can take the road when the path is separated by the grassy strip. That's how I usually ride it east-bound. Supposedly they want the west-bound bikes to also take (and stay on) the path/bike lanes, but most (including me) take the road instead.

Ah, yes, clueless law enforcement suggesting wrong way riding. I thought we killed that idea in the 1970's. Apparently there are still some holdouts.

Cops have the same right to freedom of expression, just like street artists.


I disagree. police on the job do NOT have the same 'freedom of expression' as street artists. :rolleyes:

that doesn't stop some of them from acting like jackstraps.