Foo - Should I feel bad for hitching off someone's wifi?

Usually I use my home network router, which uses a 786/128 kbps speed, but after using the laptop in my room and scanning the area, of it 5 networks available, including mine, only ONE other network was unsecured. So for kicks I hitched off that network. As I went to google.com....hot damn did it go FAST!

So of course I go to speedtest.net and check their speed. Well the final result was 5200/1100ish kbps!

Hoo damn, I just entered downloading heaven. Right now I'm downloading a movie at 585 kB/s...usually I download around 90kB/s at home, but woho!! Now I still use my home network for non-downloading actions. I feel bad :innocent:

Should I feel bad for hitching off someone's wifi?Yes. You're stealing. They paid for it...you didn't.

they might have a maximum gb/mo. that you're cutting into :-/
mine goes roughly 1mb/s down and 100kb/s up and I like to keep the network secured for that exact reason. I actually managed to hit the max gb/mo. cap a few times.

speaking of which, I see some new computers I've never heard of on the router IP table...
time to change the pw and hack those other computers :D

It's porno isn't it, admit it... that's what you're downloading.

No. It's their damn problem for not securing their wifi.

No. It's their damn problem for not securing their wifi.

+1 If you leave your network open you should be prepared for people to piggyback. I leave my network open in a sense. I use mac filtering and display a message to anyone who opens up a browser while connected to my access point. They can't get any further than that. :)

actually it was all TV shows that don't air here, internet radio talk shows, gaming and maybe a little bit of porno on the side :rolleyes:

seriously these TV shows are massive, 720p, 300~500mb for 24mins each. that's like 19~31 episodes collectively that I can watch before it maxes out. :mad:

It's porno isn't it, admit it... that's what you're downloading.


ROFL

Use your judgement on this. I personally don't do it, but I am lucky enough to have either a wireless AP (WPA2/PSK, 63 character password) at home, and I can plug my laptop into my cellphone, use it as a router.

Just don't do something that will get the owner into trouble. A lot of open APs that were left open deliberately (where the owner "forgot" to close it) are now closed because people abused the heck out of them.

You're fine, as long as you don't feel bad when they (or others on the network) read your email and steal your passwords.

actually it was all TV shows that don't air here, internet radio talk shows, gaming and maybe a big honking chunk of porno all night long to fill up my 1500gb external brick :rolleyes:

The thing is, technically they shouldn't leave their door open but you shouldn't be walking into the house and eating the pie either...

drink drugs. stay in milk. and don't do school.

I wish I had a 1500gb external brick...
too bad it's 95gb/mo. here.

I wish I had a 1500gb external brick...

You're telling me! I filled up my 150gigs FAST!

I hate when people secure their wifi in large cities. I mean, I'm trying to use my iPod touch Maps app to show/find my location, and I can't even find a open free wifi spot.

I hate when people secure their wifi in large cities. I mean, I'm trying to use my iPod touch Maps app to show/find my location, and I can't even find a open free wifi spot.

Wah.

The question is, will you feel bad after their RIAA suit?

Should I feel bad for hitching off someone's wifi?

yes...and for all of the other evil things you do....

The thing is, technically they shouldn't leave their door open but you shouldn't be walking into the house and eating the pie either...+1. It's their stupid choice to leave the door open, but it doesn't justify eating the pie. Besides, depending on your location piggybagging may be simply illegal (around here it is).

--J

You should feel bad. Should you cease and desist? That's up to you. If only they had a shared printer in there, you could have some real fun...

Or open shared NAS...

I would say it's ok to use it. But...the massive amounts of downloading will negative effect. Back in my apartment we used to have someone who had an open network (named "donate to apt something something",donations were optional). One of the guys in my apartment caught wind of this and started downloading his tv shows. This led to the network being shutdown : [. So do things in moderation lest the network switched to a protected one. The sad thing was that this happened twice (two different networks).

enabled mac filtering and wpa2 after changing to a more powerful router.
Had a few more visitors then, but yes......Those networks left open
I consider public. Doesn't mean U have to abuse it!

Yes. You're stealing. They paid for it...you didn't.

:rolleyes:


No. It's their damn problem for not securing their wifi.

:thumb:


i did it for +/- 8 months until, one by one, my neighbors secured their accounts.

No. It's their damn problem for not securing their wifi.
I don't buy this logic at all. You shouldn't take advantage of people just because they're not sophisticated users.

Just because something is easy to take doesn't mean it's OK. Thankfully, most waiters realize this when you hand them a CC and they go off where they could do anything they wanted with it.

I dont. If you see a twenty dollar bill blowing down the road
do you stop to pick it up. If its in the air, it fair game despite
what a profit ubber alles corp. might want you to believe.
More progressive cities are making the whole city free but
monopolies like Comcast(Very bad, off topic rant to ensue)
charge a lot for it. Conversely, if I was ever in a situation
where I had to pay I would label my network something that
would invite people to use it.

Usually I use my home network router, which uses a 786/128 kbps speed, but after using the laptop in my room and scanning the area, of it 5 networks available, including mine, only ONE other network was unsecured. So for kicks I hitched off that network. As I went to google.com....hot damn did it go FAST!

So of course I go to speedtest.net and check their speed. Well the final result was 5200/1100ish kbps!

Hoo damn, I just entered downloading heaven. Right now I'm downloading a movie at 585 kB/s...usually I download around 90kB/s at home, but woho!! Now I still use my home network for non-downloading actions. I feel bad :innocent:

Considering you can go to jail for it, I would be looking over my shoulder...

No. It's their damn problem for not securing their wifi.

Leaving the front door of your house open is not a de facto invitation for someone to come in and steal all of your stuff.

There were three users: a Windows user, a Mac user, and a Linux user...

I dont. If you see a twenty dollar bill blowing down the road
do you stop to pick it up. If its in the air, it fair game despite
what a profit ubber alles corp. might want you to believe.
More progressive cities are making the whole city free but
monopolies like Comcast(Very bad, off topic rant to ensue)
charge a lot for it. .
Have you tried getting a connection in very many of these cities? Except in airports, I normally find these free services to be close to useless.

Taking wifi on the grounds that people are being dopes isn't different from justifying installing spyware on the grounds they should know what's going on. Only in the computer world is a lack of knowledge on the part of individuals routinely used to justify taking advantage of them.

Have you tried getting a connection in very many of these cities? Except in airports, I normally find these free services to be close to useless.

Taking wifi on the grounds that people are being dopes isn't different from justifying installing spyware on the grounds they should know what's going on. Only in the computer world is a lack of knowledge on the part of individuals routinely used to justify taking advantage of them.

Actually, that's the norm everywhere. If someone doesn't know cars, real estate, etc... there are plenty of people willing to take advantage of that.

If it's not locked down it's yours....just don't take up all the BW downloading movies and such, be a courteous bum.

Usually I use my home network router, which uses a 786/128 kbps speed, but after using the laptop in my room and scanning the area, of it 5 networks available, including mine, only ONE other network was unsecured. So for kicks I hitched off that network. As I went to google.com....hot damn did it go FAST!

So of course I go to speedtest.net and check their speed. Well the final result was 5200/1100ish kbps!

Hoo damn, I just entered downloading heaven. Right now I'm downloading a movie at 585 kB/s...usually I download around 90kB/s at home, but woho!! Now I still use my home network for non-downloading actions. I feel bad :innocent:

No if the person is computer literate at all they should realize the unit can be secured and secure it!

Do most routers log connections and attempted connections? I've got my router password secured, but have not done any MAC address filtering at this time. I'm kinda curious about whether or not anyone's tried to use it.

I had some trouble setting the new router up at first, so I called their tech support line. The person sounded like they were in another country, which by itself isn't a big deal. He walked me thru a setup that included disabling every security function the router had and using something easy like my telephone number as a password. From that point, I was able to figure out how to turn on the "high-powered" password stuff. But I wonder how many people are still out there with no security whatsoever? I know this is like anything in that if someone wants in badly enough they'll figure out a way in. But some people seem to have rolled out a red carpet.

Leaving the front door of your house open is not a de facto invitation for someone to come in and steal all of your stuff.

I'm gonna call BS here.

Just using their network...that THEY put out there with no restrictions to public access...is not stealing anything. By not securing it, they have created a public network - don't matter if they knew they were doing so or not...stupid is not an affirmative defense.
Now if you try to gain access into their file systems and take their files, or intercept/modify/redirect their data packets, yes you are stealing and breaking the law.

speaking of which, I see some new computers I've never heard of on the router IP table...
time to change the pw and hack those other computers :D

Have a little fun with them.. http://ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html :D

No. I don't even feel bad for logging into their router interfaces because they couldn't take some time to change the default username/password.

I don't CHANGE anything though. That would be messed up.

Do most routers log connections and attempted connections? I've got my router password secured, but have not done any MAC address filtering at this time. I'm kinda curious about whether or not anyone's tried to use it...
I use a combination of secured authentication and MAC address filters. Since then, no-one has been able to get into my network without me authorizing it.

Then again, I'm in a rural area so I haven't seen any attempts in my AP's logs to get in by anyone other than the two wireless cards I've authorized for it....

And yes - there are a few other unsecured networks in range from my home, but I don't connect to them because I don't want some Tom, Dick or Harry getting into my files. Not to mention if I have to print from the lappy, that has to go through my network, so if I'm on someone else's network, I can't get to my printer.

To WilliamK1974:

Do you live in an urban city? If so, it might be a good idea to turn on MAC filtering. Keep in mind that Linux users have the ability to clone MAC addresses, and if your network is encrypted using WEP, that information could be sniffed out.

Usually, I implement WPA, as it's been shown to be VERY difficult to crack in a reasonable time frame. I want to use WPA2, but the wifi card on my Ubuntu laptop is too old to support it. (It doesn't even support WPA, so I'm using WEP right now. Thinking about MAC filtering.) If you want to kick it up a notch, hide the SSID (though I'm sure the name can be discovered through packet sniffing...if it's unsecured, which a lot of hidden SSIDs are). You could even go one notch further and implement a free VPN login kind of thing, but that might be a little much.

As per logging, most commerical routers have support to log inbound and outbound connections. This is actually useful to detect if anyone's trying to gain access to your stuff. Though you shouldn't have this problem if your ports are closed and your router has a half-decent firewall.

To WilliamK1974:

Do you live in an urban city? If so, it might be a good idea to turn on MAC filtering. Keep in mind that Linux users have the ability to clone MAC addresses, and if your network is encrypted using WEP, that information could be sniffed out.

I live in a suburban neighborhood. 50s ranch houses, neighbors on either side are older but more than a few homes are owned by younger people. Neighborhood used to be full of unsecured routers. Not so much these days.


Usually, I implement WPA, as it's been shown to be VERY difficult to crack in a reasonable time frame. I want to use WPA2, but the wifi card on my Ubuntu laptop is too old to support it. (It doesn't even support WPA, so I'm using WEP right now. Thinking about MAC filtering.) If you want to kick it up a notch, hide the SSID (though I'm sure the name can be discovered through packet sniffing...if it's unsecured, which a lot of hidden SSIDs are). You could even go one notch further and implement a free VPN login kind of thing, but that might be a little much.

I'll double check, but I'm pretty certain I've implemented the WPA. My laptop's a Macbook that's a few months old, wife's is a newer Dell Inspiron running Vista. I have an Ubuntu box but it's plugged into the router. I'll look into doing the MAC address thing.


As per logging, most commerical routers have support to log inbound and outbound connections. This is actually useful to detect if anyone's trying to gain access to your stuff. Though you shouldn't have this problem if your ports are closed and your router has a half-decent firewall.

I'm gonna call BS here.

Just using their network...that THEY put out there with no restrictions to public access...is not stealing anything. By not securing it, they have created a public network - don't matter if they knew they were doing so or not...stupid is not an affirmative defense.
Now if you try to gain access into their file systems and take their files, or intercept/modify/redirect their data packets, yes you are stealing and breaking the law.

So if the neighbourhood kids decide to use your backyard as part of their soccer pitch, that's OK right? If you didn't put a fence around it to restrict public access then it must mean you don't care if everyone else uses it.

So if the neighbourhood kids decide to use your backyard as part of their soccer pitch, that's OK right? If you didn't put a fence around it to restrict public access then it must mean you don't care if everyone else uses it.

Bad analogy. My yard is private property...the frequencies that carry wifi are public frequencies. If you're gonna make your network available to public frequencies...you just created a public network. If you want a private network...secure it. Duh.

So if the neighbourhood kids decide to use your backyard as part of their soccer pitch, that's OK right? If you didn't put a fence around it to restrict public access then it must mean you don't care if everyone else uses it.Perhaps a better analogy would be the neighbors hooking a hose to your water faucet and using your water that you paid for to irrigate their garden. If you didn't put a lock on it, it's fair game...right?

We're talking the internet and computers here. Shouldn't the endless analogies involve cars?

I think if you just checking email or other non high bandwidth stuff, its fine, unless you cancel your internet because you now have free connection.

If you're downloading huge files, I consider it stealing no matter what.

Mac filtering and turning off the SSID beacon are useless. It is very easy to spoof a MAC and find wifi that's not broadcasting the SSID.

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/Ou/index.php?p=43

If they leave it unsecured, that's their problem. If you use it, don't download anything that could incriminate them and don't be a bandwidth hog.

I personally don't feel that sorry for people that leave it unsecured. Routers these days all come with a setup wizard that even the most ignorant person can stumble through. It's kinda like someone listening to music with the windows open. You can choose to listen or not. Are you stealing their music if you listen? They chose to leave it unsecured. They have to expect that people will squat on it. Just be respectful and don't hack.

We're talking the internet and computers here. Shouldn't the endless analogies involve cars?

You can't play soccer in a car, and no matter how much you water it, it ain't gonna grow.:innocent:

You can't play soccer in a car, and no matter how much you water it, it ain't gonna grow.:innocent:

Clearly we have the answer right here!!! It is OK to hitch off someone's wifi while drinking some water and kicking a ball around. Nice. :D

Usually I use my home network router, which uses a 786/128 kbps speed, but after using the laptop in my room and scanning the area, of it 5 networks available, including mine, only ONE other network was unsecured. So for kicks I hitched off that network. As I went to google.com....hot damn did it go FAST!

So of course I go to speedtest.net and check their speed. Well the final result was 5200/1100ish kbps!

Hoo damn, I just entered downloading heaven. Right now I'm downloading a movie at 585 kB/s...usually I download around 90kB/s at home, but woho!! Now I still use my home network for non-downloading actions. I feel bad :innocent:On my secured network, I've been getting 20+ Mbps down lately. I'm guaranteed to get 10Mbps by my ISP. Uploads are limited to ~1Mbps.


Perhaps a better analogy would be the neighbors hooking a hose to your water faucet and using your water that you paid for to irrigate their garden. If you didn't put a lock on it, it's fair game...right?That's also a bad analogy. The neighbors would have to trespass to access the faucet. My neighbors' WiFi signals are accessible in my loft, I don't have to trespass to access them, if I were to try (they're pretty much all secured, though).