Commuting - Building a Surly Cross Check...slowly

I know there are a million threads like this, but I figured I'd chime in..

I commute from Chicago to the suburbs 14 miles each way to work. I started in May and have been loving it ever since. I average 3-5 days a week. Anyway, I've started assembling pieces for a Cross Check build over the winter that will hopefully emerge in the Spring as my full-time ride.

Here's what I've got so far:

Wheels - Front & Rear Deore LX M580 hubs laced to Salsa Delgado X 36h rims ($184 (http://www.aebike.com) for this wheelset!!!)
Brakes - Tektro CR720 Canti's, Stem Cable Hanger
Stem - Dimension 100mm 107 degree black 1 1/8"


I've got my eye on (ebay):

Shimano front FD 4400 & rear RD 4400, Shimano Tiagra double crankset, shimano bar-end shifters, tiagra 9 speed cassette 12-23.

Any and all suggestions are welcome! I'm definitely on a budget, and would love to find the derailleurs, cassette and cranks for under $200 total.


Oh, and I'm buying the frame next week from universal cycles.

I'll post updates as they come!

You didn't mention whether or not your ride is flat or hilly. Guess what I'm getting at? If you're really on a budget you can save a bunch of money foregoing the shifters and derailleurs and building a single speed. Of course you already have a rear wheel which is intended to hold a cassette. In that case, how about a a single chain ring up front? Won't save you as much, but then you've already got the rear wheel.

I was running an 1x8 speed on my Crosscheck (single ring up front, cheap twist shifter on the bar and an Shimano LX MTB derailleur out back) till I threw my chain and gouged up all the drive side spokes and they began to fail one by one. I dug out my old single speed rear wheel and put it on while I was waiting for spokes to rebuild the geared wheel. That was about six months ago. I'm digging the SS thing again - and I have a 30 mile, hilly commute to work.

DanO

great rims, love mine.

i second the 1 x 8 idea and really want to do that to my old beater soon. i'd consider it on the salsa if i weren't loving the double so much...

great rims, love mine.

i second the 1 x 8 idea and really want to do that to my old beater soon. i'd consider it on the salsa if i weren't loving the double so much...

Assuming his terrain is pretty flat then I'd 3rd the 1X8 Idea. On my main commuter which is a MTBC I find myself on my largest ring 98% of the time as Houston is nearly flat as the rise from sea level is only 10 to 20 feet. However, if he's got hills I'd even consider a road triple.

thanks for asking. my commute is actually totally flat. i've ridden it on a single speed/fixed conversion since may - which is a great ride and very smooth, albeit too small a frame for me :/. so part of the reason for the gears is that i've gotten pretty good at understanding and maintaining a single speed set up - chainline, tension, cleaning, etc. i feel like i want to get a broader scope of biking and learn how front and rear derailleurs work, as well as how to correctly maintain them. i'm planning on doing most of the building at a nearby co-op called working bikes.


anyway, i've also considered the 1x8 or 1x9 setup, but i keep getting hung up on the need for a "bashguard" or people talking about "throwing their chain" - it seems like too much trouble and that it would end up costing just as much. if i could get a good idea of EXACTLY what i'd need to buy to make a 1x8 work, i'd be up for considering it - cassette gearing to rear derailleur to crank and front chainring count. any ideas?

also, i hope to do some touring next summer, along with some century rides - i know i could do some of that single speed, but it seems more interesting with gears.

anymore thoughts on a 1x8 idea?

Well I can tell you exactly what I run on my Crosscheck - when I'm running the 8 speed rear, that is.

Originally I was running a nice single speed set-up when I decided to try the 1x8. I already had a nice FSA double carbon road crank with Spot 42 tooth chainring in on the inside, and a matching bash ring on the outside. Bus as nice as that stuff was, and still is, I needed to try out the 1x8 as cheaply as possible. So here's what I bought.

REI had a 700 size 'comfort bike' rear wheel (no-name rim laced to a Deore hub with 32 straight gauge spokes) on sale for like, $50.
Nashbar was having a sale, as usual, and I got a 8 speed cassette ($15) and a Shimano LX derailleur ($25 or so).
The cheapest 8 speed Shimano twist shifter the LBS had ($12) fit on my weird mustache style handle bars, which are actually MTB diameter.

I had plenty of derailleur cable on hand, from all the Bell bicycle tune-up kits I've bought at WallMart and only used the brake cables for my single speed. It took all of an hour to mount the rear wheel, derailleur and twist grip, then run a cable.

Originally, I just ran the cable in a full length housing and ziptied it to the frame, so I could convert the bike from geared to single and back again in a few minutes. But given the sophistication of the components I was using, this resulted in less than stellar shifting. So I ran the cable in shorter sections of housing and used the routing provided on the frame. Much better shifting, and the bike can still be converted in under an hour.

All in all, I think the 1x8 or 9 is a blast, and I can only imagine building one with kick ass components. But speaking of budgets. One suggestion I have for you if you're having trouble sourcing an affordable 'bash ring', is to get a worn chain ring and just file the teeth off it.

DanO

awesome info. thanks!

i'm still trying to understand why there is a need for the bash ring. on a 1x9 setup, would i HAVE to have 2 chainrings (a teeth + bash ring) or could i just use a single speed chainring/crankset with a 42mm chain line? would i have to have a short or medium or long cage rear derailleur, or would that depend on the number of teeth in my cassette range? i guess these are all questions that show how much i have to learn!

that said, i definitely want to build this up right - no shortcuts, etc. if there was any part of this end result i wasn't happy with, i'd feel like i might as well buy the complete and upgrade it, but i kind of want it to be mine from the get-go and to be reliable. just throwin that out there - that's why i have so many questions!

In my experience, I would occasionally drop the chain when shifting down onto the smallest cog in back - hence, a bash ring on the outside helped to prevent this. Some riders have the opposite problem (dropping the chain on the inside as they shift up onto the larger, inside cogs) and run a fixed front derailleur. Of course this isn't the most attractive solution. After all, isn't the whole point to simplify things and get a cleaner look by eliminating that in the first place? There are also smaller, purpose built chain guides that prevent this.

Also: one advantage to the 8 speed is that you can run 8 speed chain, which works on dedicated single speed chain rings which are not 'ramped'. This feature aids in shifting from one front ring to another, which in our case simply aids in dropping the chain when shifting to either the extreme inside or outside rear cogs. You want to find chain rings which are not ramped.

One thing you want to achieve is a good chain line. The front chain ring should be lined up with the center of the rear cassette. On a nine speed it should line up with the 5th cog and on an 8 speed it should line up between the 4th and 5th. I run a 135mm wide mountain bike rear hub, and I figured that a bottom bracket with a 113mm wide (mountain bike) spindle would put the inside chain ring on my road crank in the right place. I lucked out. Your Deore LX hubs are MTB, so the above recipe should work... if you're using an ISIS type bottom bracket, that is. If you're looking into a crank with bearings which are outside the BB shell, I you need to talk to a mechanic about the chain line on those.

DanO

Also: one advantage to the 8 speed is that you can run 8 speed chain, which works on dedicated single speed chain rings which are not 'ramped'. This feature aids in shifting from one front ring to another, which in our case simply aids in dropping the chain when shifting to either the extreme inside or outside rear cogs. You want to find chain rings which are not ramped.


I'm running my crosscheck 1x9. The nine speed chain fits fine over my single speed (non ramped) chainring. I'm not running a bashguard or chain guide of any sort and haven't had any problems dropping the chain.

The gear range is more than enough for commuting with a 43 up front and 11-34 in back. Gives me a range from 34 to 106 gear inches.

this is all helpful, as it's going to require me to learn much more than i have about these things..."ramped" "isis" etc.

is there anything to look for when finding a crankset to match the tiagra front and rear derailleurs?

here's my shopping list, and i'll update this again when i've got something to show for it!!

http://aebike.com/images/library/catalogs/soc/prodt/CR3761.jpg (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=CR3762) FSA (Full Speed Ahead) FSA Vero Compact JIS Sq 175 34/50 Crankset Black
(CR3762) $67.99 $67.99 http://aebike.com/images/library/catalogs/soc/prodt/RD4404.jpg (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=RD4404) Shimano Tiagra RD4500-GS 9sp Rear Der
(RD4404)

$55.99 $55.99 http://aebike.com/images/library/catalogs/soc/prodt/FD4422.jpg (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=FD4422) Shimano Tiagra FD4500 9spd 31.8/ 28.6mm Front Der
(FD4422)

$38.99 $38.99 http://aebike.com/images/library/catalogs/soc/prodt/CR5366.jpg (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=CR5367) Shimano Shimano UN54 68x110mm BB
(CR5367)

$23.99 $23.99 http://aebike.com/images/library/catalogs/soc/prodt/CH4032.jpg (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=CH4032) Shimano Shimano CN-HG53 chain 9 speed
(CH4032)

$19.99 $19.99 http://aebike.com/images/library/catalogs/soc/prodt/BR7210.jpg (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=BR7210) Tektro Tektro R200A Ergo Brake Levers Black/Silver
(BR7210) $19.99 $19.99 http://aebike.com/images/library/catalogs/soc/prodt/LD0704.jpg (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=LD0704) Shimano Shimano SL-BS77 9-speed double/triple bar end shift levers
(LD0704)

$66.99 $66.99 SRAM SRAM PG-950 9spd 12-26 cassette
(FW6176) $30.00 $30.00


+ Nitto Noodle Handlebars, Cloth Tape, Shellac, Brooks B-17

I was glad to read this thread. It took me over 4 months to slowly piece together a cross check, so now I don't feel like like such a slacker, even though it's mostly true. After I got the frame, I cleaned out my parts collection. I re-used some platform pedals, nitto albatross bars, a seat post, Brooks B17, some Avid canti brakes, a Shimano M563 front MTB hub, Shimano MTB canti brake levers. All those went on the bike.

I bought a Dimension stem, Velocity Dyad rims, Shimano Nexus 8 internal hub, DT spokes, Shimano Alfine trigger shifter for the nexus hub. I built up the wheels and finished finished off with a Sugino singlespeed crank and bottom bracket, Surly steel chainring and nashbar (kmc) chain. Last items were 700-35 Pasela tires and nashbar tubes.

The slow, pay as you go method works fine for me. I'm never in a hurry to do things, and it gives me time to change my mind as I go along. One thing I don't like is the Avid brakes on front, need to replace with Tektro CR720 to kill the squeal. I do like the clean drive train of the internal 8 hub. This is my backup commuter bike and primary errand bike. Will use this anytime the weather is lousy around here (not very often). I am such slacker I hate to mess with cleaning cassette cogs and derailers after riding in rain, so the internal hub is just the ticket.

If you're buying the frame from Universal use the VIP15 code - it'll save you 15% and the frameset will only come to around $335 with free shipping. DEAL.

Here' mine BTW:
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3770/surlycrosscheckbuild003sn8.jpg

I just pulled the trigger on a Brooks Swift saddle which will go on next week. Never ridden a Brooks before but I'm excited. I think you'll enjoy building and riding your Surly. Everyone I know that has one loves it.

I'm biased on this- but echo the 1x8/9 set up suggestions; especially in a flatter area on a commuter focused ride. I live in a pretty hilly area and get by quite well with 34 t chain ring and 11-34 cassette.
Have a dog fang on the inside to prevent chain drop and a salsa ring dinger on the outside, cannot recall the last time I dropped a chain. the ring dinger helps also helps keep from getting snagged on the chain ring. I commute with this set up, run errands, pleasure & charity rides, did a sagged tour across NY- put W106 tires on it during the winter and ride all winter.

don't forget about a headset. you kind of need that

Great thread! I'm building a Soma Double Cross 1X9. Keep the info coming!

what does everyone have against front derailleurs? :)

is 1x9 the new 1x1 ?

headset - check. when i get the frame i'm taking it to yojimbos (chicag) to get it faced, chased, frame saved and have the steerer fork cut (if needed...?) and headset installed. no way am i taking the risk with that stuff. plus i trust that shop's work more than any other place i've encountered in the city.

oh no - i thought i was good to go on this.

since this will be more of a distance bike for long rides, touring and nice-weather commuting (saving my single speed/fixed gear for winter, grocery & rain riding) i'm considering the long haul trucker frame instead (fortunately, everything i've bought would transfer to it). i also would plan to run the cross check geared for the whole time anyway - with full panniers and a rear rack, so maybe the lht is the way to go. gah. decisions!

what does everyone have against front derailleurs? :)

is 1x9 the new 1x1 ?

headset - check. when i get the frame i'm taking it to yojimbos (chicag) to get it faced, chased, frame saved and have the steerer fork cut (if needed...?) and headset installed. no way am i taking the risk with that stuff. plus i trust that shop's work more than any other place i've encountered in the city.

Those guys look interesting, thanks!

Michael

This is my build;

I'm starting with this, the Soma Double Cross;

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/dcross_blk06.jpg

See: http://www.somafab.com/frames.html

Purchased it here: http://www.bikemania.biz/Cyclo_Cross_Frames_s/346.htm for $310

I would like to finish with this;

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll210/wildcat-bucket/dcrossblkbike.jpg

I got a complete set of used CX parts from eBay, including the 1 X 9 group, Handlebars & stem, CX fork and wheels & tires for $205 : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260259199206&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=016

I already have two wheel-sets, first these new Fuji Cross take off's (below) for $96 shipped: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=130236509663&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=003

these will be mounted with 700x28 Gatorbacks for fast weekend rides.

A second, new 36 spoke French wheelset (built to 29er specs) for $109 shipped: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350080220426&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=022

These will be mounted with 700cx38 Armadillo's for commuting in Chicago.

The next part is to build her up! I'm expecting it to come in at around 22 lbs when finished.

Michael

Just remember if you are 54" or under on the LHT you will be needing 26" wheels for it.

so to set up the 1x9 gearing, can i just get a double chainring crankset up front, and put a chainring guard on the inside or outside chainring? is it more complicated than that?

FYI to the original poster, unless you are getting a tiny frame universal cycles is currently on back order for cross checks.

metrico - i'm looking at this one (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=8939&category=2157) in 58cm - says they have 10+...?

metrico - i'm looking at this one (http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=8939&category=2157) in 58cm - says they have 10+...?


AH yes, i missed that one

work has been slow, so i've been doing a lot of research on 1x9 setups. given my situation and location, i'm going to go with a cross check geared to a 1x9 or 1x8 setup. thanks for all of the recommendations to look into this route! now, knowing this, i have two options:

a typical 1x9 with rear derailleur, double chainring, bashguard on the outermost chainring and chain guide on the inside.

or

1x8 nexus internal geared hub


are there pros or cons to each one? i'm hoping to ride through the winter. and either way would most likely end up with north road/albatross type bars with MTB shifter. i guess i'm just weighing which setup would be cheaper, longer lasting and/or less hassle (i know..pick two, right?)


any thoughts would be appreciated!

This is my Cross-Check, putting on finishing touches. I don't know much about bikes yet, certainly not components - the guy I bought it from did the initial build. I've just been tweaking - today added the Selle Italia seat to match the frame and orange bottle cages to match the grips. I wanted to do an orange chain guard as an additional accent but LBS guys say the frame wouldn't take a guard very easily. I think an orange chain would be cool in a nerdy-kid sort of way but no one makes them. Debating a rack. I know it's de rigueur for commuters but I've never liked stuff rattling around behind me - I'm a backpack guy. So this may be about it.

I'm more excited about this bike than any car I ever bought.

If you're buying the frame from Universal use the VIP15 code - it'll save you 15% and the frameset will only come to around $335 with free shipping. DEAL.

Here' mine BTW:
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/3770/surlycrosscheckbuild003sn8.jpg

I just pulled the trigger on a Brooks Swift saddle which will go on next week. Never ridden a Brooks before but I'm excited. I think you'll enjoy building and riding your Surly. Everyone I know that has one loves it.

Unfortunately it says in Bold Red on the bottom of the description that they can not honor the codes for that item. Still, no tax and free shipping is a decent deal.

Unfortunately it says in Bold Red on the bottom of the description that they can not honor the codes for that item. Still, no tax and free shipping is a decent deal.

Actually I just ordered this yesterday with with the VIP15 code with no problems. The VIP15 code is not the one that's listed on the page that doesn't work (HDY15 is what they list on the page as invalid). Just over $330 shipped for me. Though it does look like they upped the price on the black framesets by $30 since yesterday. Still not a bad deal.

I'm doing about the same kind of build as the OP myself, and am super excited about!

-jay

Any updates on the build?

I love the idea of single speeding my Cross Check except for two things: 1) I have a wicked, two story ramp in and out of the parking garage, and 2) I use this bike for everything from road rides, touring, to commuting and feel that I'd lose that flexibility if I ran only one gear. I run a Truvative Elita double up front (39/48) and an XT cassette (11-34) in the back. I use the small ring only when climbing the aformentioned ramp, otherwise I'm in the 48 99% of the time.

I built mine reletively inexpensively but have recently started to bling it up a little bit as it fills so many roles I feel I can justify it. Here's the current parts list:

58 cm Cross Check frame/fork
Mavic Open Pro's (36 spke)
XT fr/rr hubs
XT cassette (11-34)
Truvative Elita cranks (39/48)
Shimano 540 pedals
XT rr. der
Ultegra fr. der
Dura Ace downtube shifters
Crank Bros Opium headset
Surly seatpost clamp
Avid Shorty 6's with Jagwire pads
Easton seat post
Performance saddle
Ritchie stem
Sette drop bars
Dia Comp road brake levers
Continental tires (?) 700 x 28
SKS full fenders (winter only)
Planet Bike 10 w. headlight
Rear blinkie

This has been the perfect setup for all my varied types of riding, handles well, fast, comfy, reliable. I was going to replace my recently worn out rr. hub (at about 20k miles) with Chris Kings but my mechanic had already ordered the XT. So, next it'll be a Nitto silver seat post, randoneur handlebars, and (probably) a pedal replacement as well. Let us know how your build goes.

I'm a little late to the show, but I have some experience down this road, too...have a Xcheck that was once a flat bar SS, a drop bar SS, a drop bar 1x8, an A-bar SS and now an A-bar 1x8.

To the OP: 1x8s are great and all, and I couldn't tell you why they're so popular, but if you're going to do some light touring with your rig heavily consider getting a triple up front.

I have a 1x8 by default. I bought my Xcheck used, and it came with 144BCD cranks and a Salsa SS ring on it. It made engineering anything for it kinda difficult. The crank is a vintage double, so I could put two new rings on it, but that costs money ;) I had an 8 speed cassette lying around, and have been gifted XTR and XT rear mechs. I do have an old LX front mech and a XT front mech I could slap on there if I had a triple, but again, that would mean spending money on new cranks.

Also, it's more work to go to SS from a 3x8 than from a 1x8. For a 1x8 I just removed cabling, derailleur and shifter (10 min.) and switch the cassette for my SS kit (or just do a rear wheel swap). It can be done in 30 min. If I had a triple to remove:

a) it would be counterproductive to use cheap, square taper systems

and

b) I would have to change either cranks or rings everytime AND front mech, cabling and shifter.

I'm happy with my 1x8, it's pretty simple and gets me what I need, but I might do a front triple just because.

As for bashguards, if you like the 1x8 idea, but want to have the possibility of a triple for touring in the future, then buy a triple and put BBG bashguards on the inside AND outside and sandwich your ring between them. It's a $20 sandwich and it looks very nice.

I like IGHs ok, but I honestly think a well maintained derailleur setup will serve you better. This after much time spent abhorring derailleurs. For winter, yeah, mechs get gunked and it can be a pain...that's why I run SS in the winter. For summer the light weight and transparency of a derailleur setup is amazing. In other words, I would recommend staying away from the Nexus 8, especially for a commute as long as yours.

As far as the LHT goes, it's a great bike, but I think it's an overkill bike for most people and most riding. Unless you're planning on "kitchen-sink" style touring I think it's just way too much bike. If you want some of the capabilities you can put Soma's IRD 'cross fork on down the line for low-rider rack braze-ons. My opinion is that you don't need it, though. For me a loaded rear rack and a well weighted front rack bag does the trick for some good overnighters.

my cc, fixed:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/mike.beganyi/SHFfjKI2qjI/AAAAAAAAFAk/MGtQYFlIk9U/s800/IMG_5001.JPG

As for an update, i actually have nearly completed a build up of a Surly LHT. After much deliberation, I pulled the trigger on an olive 58cm and am building it up touring style for some trips around lake michigan next summer. Sorry for asking all of this advice and not using it!