Advocacy & Safety - Speed tickets, anyone?

Today's news: one of the wealthier Finnish citizens was caught speeding a couple of days ago. He was driving 80kph at a 40kph zone. Speeding fines in Finland vary according to offender's income level, so the officer on the scene routinely run a query from the Finnish IRS database. Turns out this guy earned about 7 million euros last year, so the officer signed and handed over a cool 170 000e (USD 210 000+) slap on the wrist. :D

(If the offender thinks that for some reason his last year income is grossly misleading he may appeal and get his fine slashed. One such offender got his fine reduced by 95% after being able to show his current income was far less than last year's records indicated.)

--J

Today's news: one of the wealthier Finnish citizens was caught speeding a couple of days ago. He was driving 80kph at a 40kph zone. Speeding fines in Finland vary according to offender's income level, so the officer on the scene routinely run a query from the Finnish IRS database.

--J

So, if I sped in Finland, comrade Juha, I would be fined 35 cents and a couple of buttons, because, I am a poor toothless cog in the great economic engine? Please get some palm trees and warm black sand beaches, as I'm emigrating!

So, if I sped in Finland, comrade Juha, I would be fined 35 cents and a couple of buttons, because, I am a poor toothless cog in the great economic engine? Please get some palm trees and warm black sand beaches, as I'm emigrating!
i'm pretty sure there's a minimum fine and the income-relative only comes in to play for the wealthy.

i think it's a great system -- as in this case, if the guy earned 7million last year, is he really even going to think twice about a €200 fine, or even €2000? or if his insurance quadruples? any "normal" fine is simply not an effective INCENTIVE for him not to break the law... and simply because someone is rich should not mean they can effectively ignore driving laws (as in virtually the case in the US and Germany although in Germany with multiple offenses would face the serious possibility of losing your license, the US i doubt it - you can pay the right attourneys and pay some huge fines but for millionaiere, big deal)

You are talking about twice the allowed speed. If he could have been in a more restricted zone, Maybe he could have been fined 1.000.000 euros...1/7 his income.Not bad.
Probably has couple hundred million in the bank..Not enough. I recall how fast those high powered Mercedez's move on the payeges'.. That is one reason is Europe to use public transit..Speed deamons make American's almost look tame. You can't go under 100 mph, even in the slow lane.

I recall how fast those high powered Mercedez's move on the payeges'.. That is one reason is Europe to use public transit..Speed deamons make American's almost look tame. You can't go under 100 mph, even in the slow lane.
well, i don't know what kind of rules they have in Finnland (probably max about 130km/h or 82mph)...

but in Germany i must say the Autobahn is AWESOME - while it's not exactly environmentally friendly to drive at such high speeds, the Autobahn works VERY well. Since there are predictable rules that are enforced (no passing on the right and you must move to the right if feasible -- given no traffic jam) it is as or much more safe than the US Interstates where people weave in and out of traffic and pass on the shoulder and all that (I'm originally from Texas, so YES, it happens frequently)...

and gas is taxed very heavily (costs 3 to 4 times as much as in the US, so $3/gal would be really cheap here - actually prices are more like $4/gal) as are big engines (auto registration taxes based roughly on engine displacement) so the people who drive over 200km/h (125mph) really pay for the priviledge...

my relatively efficient wagon cruises well at 160km/h (100mph) at a little over 30mpg (113 horsepower Mitsubishi Lancer wagon - kind of like a front-wheel drive Subaru - between Impreza and Legacy in size), better mileage if i drive more slowly...

BUT, when there is a speed limit it is more heavily enforced than in the US (unmanned speed traps where a photo is taken are allowed here)

German/European drivers are also generally more skilled/careful as a) driver training is actually difficult and requires one to think and learn and b) you loose your license quite quickly/easily unlike the US ("but judge, how can i get myself to work and the 3 kids to school?") the only MAJOR compliant i have about German drivers is that they tailgait badly. and increasing numbers are becoming more "American" and abandoning public transit/walking/biking for the "comfort" of the car...

oh, and plus, the Autobahn ENDS at the city limits so there are no huge multi-lane freeway running through city, urban and residential areas. there are by-passes that go around the cities for long-distance travel but they do not develop the "retail-centers" that you get in the US along most Interstates in urban/suburban and even rural areas... (there is at least one in every major in the US)

Yes, there is a minimum fine for "poor toothless cogs", students etc. But if you earn pretty much anything, it will add to the minimum fine. I tend to agree: it's a good system.

Why this guy did not temporarily lose his license is beyond me. Circumstances must have been really convincingly on his side.

We don't have autobahns here, it's all 120, 100 or 80 km/h, so driving in Germany IS a bewildering experience. Some people drive really fast there. Usually people with red Italian-made sports cars... my rental Peugeot sedan was not much of a match. But it was red, too! :D

--J

oh, and plus, the Autobahn ENDS at the city limits so there are no huge multi-lane freeway running through city, urban and residential areas. there are by-passes that go around the cities for long-distance travel but they do not develop the "retail-centers" that you get in the US along most Interstates in urban/suburban and even rural areas... (there is at least one in every major in the US)
nathank...I always am so taken aback at how healthy European cities look compared to American..The desolate downtowns with nothing going on.I blame this on the Wallmarts and shopping malls at freeway interchanges outside of the cities.
We claim to come from such and such a city, but often no city exists..Just shopping malls. It is a relief to visit small retailers with more diverse offerings. With people milling about and acitivity going on in locations where people are supposed to live- one feels considerable safer.
Of course, so many of our cities are just abandoned. No one has to be there guess you are safe. We have hosted innumerable foreign visitors through cultural exchanges.
The comments so often are, 'where are the people'.
But then I find shopping malls sterile. Consumer choices limited. I blame this on the automobile..
I once read the small paterisies of Europe are beginning to disappear because people are beginning to buy their morning pastries at 'Starbucks' kinds of outlets.Shame, if that is so..

I once read the small paterisies of Europe are beginning to disappear because people are beginning to buy their morning pastries at 'Starbucks' kinds of outlets.Shame, if that is so..
well, we're getting a little off-topic here, but whatever...

yes, Germany especially is undergoing a big change in shopping/stores (i think more than France or Italy or many other European cuontries) where more and more people are "discovering" discount stores and massive stores with more selection outside of the central shopping districts... like Ikea for example (the 2nd one in the Munich area just opened some 15km from downtown - oh, unlike the US, for Germany 10 miles from downtown of a 1.5 million city is a LONG way) -- but there are now more US-style shopping centers (a big parking lot with 3+ businesses like a super-size grocery store, Home Depot type store, and discount store) popping up everywhere... and nationally the store hours have been somewhat relaxed (M-F 8am-8pm and as of Jan 1 2004, Sat 8am-6pm (was Sat 8am-4pm)) -- i sometimes shop at these places as i also sometimes did in the US althouh i try to go to the smaller inner-city places - but the central shopping disctricts like in center city Munich are HARDLY lacking for business and most people even if like me they sometimes shop in the discount/auto-oriented stores, most ENJOY shopping more in a pedestrian-oriented traditional shopping zone.

as part of the change, the types of stores that are successful in the traditional pedestrian areas are changing... more chains like Starbucks (actually San Francisco Coffee that i never heard of is the common one) and more high-dollar boutique-type stores as other than daily grocery/bakery type items, many people are now choosing to buy items at the discount stores (Walmart is here, although it is much more Europeanized meaning not SO big and not SO much parking -- although apparently Walmart is really loosing out to Aldi which is the European equivalent as their prices are lower than Walmart)

so yes, there is definitely an increase in chains and a decrease in small stores, but nothing like the US where virtually all you see nowadays is chains - New Jersey looks like Ohio which also looks like Nevada with the same Starbucks, Borders, McDonalds, Wal-mart, Crate&Barel, Gap, Blockbuster, Home Depot, etc.

but the local bakery in general i think has little danger of dying out from what i see... (Germans are particular about their bread and NO ONE buys pre-packaged bread - my girlfriend, ex-girlfriend and many friends make fun of me for occaisonally buying what for an American is not even normal bread: full corn bread sliced and wrapped in plastic... white bread is here laughable)

Since there are predictable rules that are enforced (no passing on the right and you must move to the right if feasible -- given no traffic jam) it is as or much more safe than the US Interstates That's the law on pretty-much every two-lane (in each direction) thoroughfare in pretty-much every jurisdiction in the United States. The difference? Of the 200 million + car drivers in the US, about eleven know about it, and about seven of them actually observe it.


German/European drivers are also generally more skilled/careful as a) driver training is actually difficult and requires one to think and learn and b) you loose your license quite quickly/easily unlike the US ("but judge, how can i get myself to work and the 3 kids to school?") "Ding-ding-ding, Don, tell 'im what he's won!" (Sorry, oblique reference to American TV game shows; translates to "you hit the nail on the head".) Again, probably about eleven drivers in this entire country consider driving the privilege that the law defines it to be, and not the right that most drivers claim it to be (by their actions, at least). In WI, when your license is up for renewal, you answer a few questions, they make sure you can see a few letters on a screen, and they renew you for eight years. No one I've asked (and admittedly, I haven't asked many) has ever mentioned having questions about pedestrians or bicycles on their driving tests. And here in the birthplace of cr@ppy American beer (WI's "Tavern League" is one of the state's most powerful lobbies), you pretty-much have to jump the curb and kill a nun while guzzling an Old Milwaukee with one hand to get your license taken away for DUI. The state only lowered the BAC threshold from .10 to .08 because they would have lost a boatload of federal money if they didn't.

No one I've asked (and admittedly, I haven't asked many) has ever mentioned having questions about pedestrians or bicycles on their driving tests.
yeah, watching for bicycles and pedstrians is a MAJOR part of driver training here in Germany. it freaked me out when i first got here: car drivers actually SAW me because they were actually EXPECTING bicycles (every driver looks right BEFORE making a right turn soas not to perform the "right-hook") - and probably 99% of drivers actually do it!

but yes, in the US you occasionally see the "Slower Traffic Keep Right" signs but in my Texas driver's education as well 2 driver safety courses (once for a ticket, once for insurance -they were actually good) it was never once mentioned to move to the right lane if open --- although i personally learned this from my father (a native Texan) --- and i have never heard of anyone getting a citation for NOT moving to the right -- and about half of drivers in Texas will stay in the left lane at all times with the rational, "I'm doing the darn speed limit so I can drive wherever the heck i want" - this is most often seen by a driver in a large pickup or SUV! (note: i also drove a '73 GMC pickup in college so i'm not trying to slander trucks)

I like it; the more expensive it is to commit a potentially deadly violation of motoring law the better.

Regarding the "Slower Traffic Keep Right", if you're running the speed limit, you can drive on any side of the road since no one should be passing you.

There was a case in South Carolina where a Charleston man was ticketed for "impeding traffic". He was driving 55 mph in a 55 posted zone in the left lane. His lawyer and he argued all the way to the SC Supreme Court that he could not have been impeding traffic, since he was driving the posted speed limit, thereby everyone else was speeding. The Court agreed with him, and officers can't issue impeding tickets unless the car is traveling less then the posted limit in the left lane.

Brilliant, DD! It would be good to see the "impeding speeders" law tested in all 50 states. Otherwise it's just an easy-out to the terribly difficult intellectual feat of comprehending a two-digit number on a roadside sign..........

The first time a human-powered vehicle (in this case a unique tandem bicycle with a fairing) officially broke the then-prevailing 55mph national highway speed limit, a California Highway Patrol officer presented the riders with a ceremonial speeding ticket.