General Cycling Discussion - Cyclist shoots motorist...

This was just sent to me over the 'Fixed Gear Mailing List'.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGACVA1QGQD.html

sounds like the truck driver deserved it.

...dumb to be carrying a weapon in the first place and a terrible shot at that at almost point blank range...

George

Justified in my opinion.

Spur of the moment reply. I shouldnt have said Justified just yet. None of us know the entire story.

How is it justified?! The point at which shots were fired, there was no real physical threat, at least not described in the article. The driver apparently told the cyclist to get off the road, wherein the cyclist flipped him off, whereupon the driver turned around - but did what? The cyclist should have just pedaled away and/or evaded the driver after he turned around- side streets, woods, alley, etc. Or, confronted verbally in an argument (I have the right to use this road, etc) Instead, the cyclist produced a d**m firearm. Obviously the driver stopped the vehicle - because the cyclist reached in and fired. After the shot was fired - the driver gave chase and rammed or attempted to ram the cyclist. From parsing the article - the shooting was not justified.

Definitely not justified, but both of those guys should be under arrest.

...dumb to be carrying a weapon in the first place

George

Yup, that's why I do not carry a firearm. There is no doubt that I would shoot someone who tried to clip me. I'm not going down that way!

This gives all law biding citizens, cyclist, and gun advocates a black eye.

From what little info there is, the shooter should go to jail.

(I do understand the emotional "he deserved it" comments, though).

it sounds like there is something missing from that story. why would the cyclist shoot the guy if he didn't feel his life was in danger? and why the f*** was he packing heat in the first place?

This gives all law biding citizens, cyclist, and gun advocates a black eye.

From what little info there is, the shooter should go to jail.

(I do understand the emotional "he deserved it" comments, though).

I agree with everything except I don't understand the "he deserved it comment"

The only two that know the whole store are the two people involved. I mean, really, do you think the truck driver turned around just to say hello? Do you really think he's going to admit that he tried to run someone down? No. But did he? I'll bet so since he ended up getting shot for it. But neither should have acted the way they did. Unfortunately, only one of them will pay for their transgression.

There have been plenty of times I've been sufficiently threatened on a bike that I'd like to have gunned down the driver. . . and that's why I shouldn't pack heat.

"Know your limits," is sage advice.

Now just by leaving the weapon at home he could sure shed some unneeded pounds. How much you want to bet he spends tons of money to take fractions of grams off of the overall weight of the bike. Carrying a weapon will diffidently hurt his performance against the clock on any climb. Of course if opponents challenge him my guess is he will come out on top. But in all seriousness he could shed a little weight by only putting one bullet in the gun. :D

I used to carry a knife around and have ditched it for anger reasons. I wouldn't like to be in a situation like this guy where I get mad enough to actually hurt someone.

I agree with everything except I don't understand the "he deserved it comment"

That is because you are too nice of a guy, which is meant a compliment. An angry frustrated cyclist who has been run off the road many times may respond with that hasty comment, but not mean it literally (I hope). At least that was my interpretation of the remark.

True not justified by the story. But who knows what the driver had in mind. He had to do something to scare the cyclist. I have been chased for giving the bird. People have actually made threats to me and followed me home. We dont know the whole story because the news media doesnt tell the whole story. "Just Cyclist shoots driver." Whay did the driver stop or turn around if he or she wasnt planning to do harm or confront the cyclist? :rolleyes:

I pack everywhere I go.

AND,what did the driver do to get the bird that "initiated" the whole incident? While I have flipped off quite a few people, I have never done it without good reason, certainly not just because someone passed me. (Except in a groupride, during a sprint, so it probably happens a lot. :eek: )

Don't forget, just because someone has a 2 ton truck pointed at you, you shouldn't fight back unless you are actually ran down first!

Last time I checked, giving someone the high one, isn't reason to run them down, beat them, or threaten them. I also don't think we have the full story here, and it doesn't seem justified from the short article.


I bet this thread is going to turn into a real hottie!

Last time I checked, giving someone the high one, isn't reason to run them down, beat them, or threaten them. I also don't think we have the full story here, and it doesn't seem justified from the short article.

It's just about impossible to glean the full story from such a brief article. That said, giving someone "the bird" isn't really justification for running them off the road. However, nor is running someone off the road justification for a shooting. In anycase, I'd like to know what (if anything) happened before the original "giving the bird" incident. Personally I find "giving the bird" to be a pretty stupid and futile action at the best of times, but I'd like to know what led to it.

Sounds to me like we have two morons here. I say put them both away indefinitely.

I'm usually cool and level headed, but I shot the ole one finger salute to a pickup that right hooked me while I was giving the signal to move left! :mad:
This is the first time since I have started riding that I have made the gesture. I beleive in playing down a situation, but this got the better of me. The bad thing is this moron never gave any kind of signal for the right turn, I was watching in my mirror!
People are just soooo disrespectful of each other. That day I was guilty of elevating a situation. :eek:

The cyclist is the worst kind of dangerous fool: one attempting to save face. Any credibility he had he threw away once he produced the firearm. Here's hoping the law sees fit to teach him the lesson of consequence.

No...its not justified...that cyclist better not have been sane...cause that something you just dont do....

yeah can't tell much from the article... but it is unlikely that the cyclist was is life-threatening danger so the shooting is probably unjustified... although i suppose it is possible that the pickup truck driver had the cyclist in front of the grill and revved the engine and threatened to run him over... although i still think you could try and ride off or get in a fist-fight rather than shooting someone, but then i'm old-school (only wimps use weapons) unfortunately lots of other wimps have weapons and don't care.

Or he the driver could have a had tire tool or knife or a gun of his very own. Duh...... Germans..............

As some of you noted there's really not enough detail to assess what actually took place. It sounds to me like two morons both armed with deadly weapons, were intent on doing serious bodily harm to one another. The courts will decide if any of it was justified.

"Nicoletti rammed Urick off his bike..." Driver should have been arrested for assault...or even assault with a deadly weapon. His actions are not justified, either. Can't chase someone down and then claim self-defense. If the system works (hah), they can clear up their differences in the clink.

"Nicoletti rammed Urick off his bike..." Driver should have been arrested for assault...or even assault with a deadly weapon. His actions are not justified, either. Can't chase someone down and then claim self-defense. If the system works (hah), they can clear up their differences in the clink.

My guess is that if he goes to prison, "ramming from behind" will take on a whole new meaning. :D

Steve, I agree with you, if the trucker was using his vehicle as a weapon to harm the cyclist, then said cyclist has the riqht to protect him self with what ever means availiable. The only part of the story that doesn't make since is the shots being fired point blank. Sounds like the driver pulled up next to the cyclist, that being the case the shoot doesn't sound justified. I have had a few brush backs while cycling as has everyone, the rage builds so fast, I am glad I didn't have a gun!

as i read it, the driver was flipped off by the biker initially. it wasn't till he turned the truck around that he was shot. and the driver didn't ram the biker till he was shot.
the biker said that he instigated this entire incident because the driver yelled at him to get off the road.

sticks and stones people. sticks and stones.

the biker is the instigator of physical harm here. no one here can defend the biker. truly. if i threatened physical harm and followed through enough to pull a trigger...hell, if i was packing heat (you only draw a weapon for one reason...to use it)

this was a premeditated incident. if he was riding all the time, leaving home saying...ok...i've got my spare, my spoke wrench, my pump, water....oh yeah...my gun. almost forgot my gun.

sorry. this one is on the biker. no defense here. the driver turned around then must have slowed enough to stop or almost stop so the biker could reach into the truck and shoot. the driver didn't ram him (his first contact with the biker) till AFTER he was shot.

am i missing something here?

as i read it, the driver was flipped off by the biker initially. it wasn't till he turned the truck around that he was shot. and the driver didn't ram the biker till he was shot.
the biker said that he instigated this entire incident because the driver yelled at him to get off the road.

sticks and stones people. sticks and stones.

the biker is the instigator of physical harm here. no one here can defend the biker. truly. if i threatened physical harm and followed through enough to pull a trigger...hell, if i was packing heat (you only draw a weapon for one reason...to use it)

this was a premeditated incident. if he was riding all the time, leaving home saying...ok...i've got my spare, my spoke wrench, my pump, water....oh yeah...my gun. almost forgot my gun.

sorry. this one is on the biker. no defense here. the driver turned around then must have slowed enough to stop or almost stop so the biker could reach into the truck and shoot. the driver didn't ram him (his first contact with the biker) till AFTER he was shot.

am i missing something here?

I am in now way defending the actions of the cyclist. However, unless the driver reasonably believed his life was in danger when he rammed the cyclist with his truck, then he should be charged with some degree of assault.
I don't believe the driver's life was in danger at the time of the ramming, since he is quoted as saying he chased him down. In my experience, if your life is in danger you usually are not the chaser, but the chasee.

I shot the ole one finger salute to a pickup that right hooked me while I was giving the signal to move left! :mad:


I think most right hooks happen because drivers are impatient AND don't realize just how fast bicycles are actually moving.

Quit packing the bird, and maybe you won't need the gun.

It is easy to say "Quit packing the bird", but sometimes it just happens.


A shout, a gesture, then the driver turned the truck around???? For a nice friendly chat I suppose?? You have to lay a little blame on the driver. Why did he feel compelled to turn around?

Just my 2 cents

Unless the driver had a weapon other then the truck the bicyclist is at fault. The truck was next to him and stopped when he shot. I feel the driver had every right to run him down after being shot. Apparently he did not hit him very had because the Pittsburgh paper said the bike rider had no reported injuries. The law may see it differently though. One other point that has not be mentioned is that the cyclist probably did not have a concealed carry permit because he is also being charged with weapons offenses.

Story in the Pittsburgh paper (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04040/270970.stm)

My thoughts?
Some Folks are alive just because its illegal to kill them. obviously these 2 fit that description.



------I'm Not Serious-------Poor Joke but couldn't help it.
Obviously from the story, with many facts perhaps missing, it appears neither one should be carrying and/or driving.

Personally if I'm packing with CC and I flip some guy off cause he just blew by within 2" of me, that's my business to flip him off. If this guy turns around and starts heading directly at me, I'll swerve out of the way. If then he turns around and starts charging at me again from behind, I'd feel compelled to swerve away and then disable his truck. If that doesn't work, I'm aiming for the head, the tire marks can tell my story.

In any event, if a situation does seem that desperate, I'd rather be warm and in jail than cold and 6ft under.

It is easy to say "Quit packing the bird", but sometimes it just happens.


A shout, a gesture, then the driver turned the truck around???? For a nice friendly chat I suppose?? You have to lay a little blame on the driver. Why did he feel compelled to turn around?


Laying the blame is one thing, however, taking appropriate action to redress the situation is another. This is my issue with flipping the bird, it's basically a futile overly-emotional reaction that simply is not going to solve the problem. What we need is cold, calculated action. The way I see it, there are two options. Either let it go and wait for Darwinism to catch up with the driver, or write down a number and pay a visit to the police station on the way home. You can bet that a "discussion" with a police officer is more likely to change the behaviour we're trying to eradicate that seeing the middle finger of a cyclist.

Unfortunately I'd have to give up the sweet sweet feeling of flipping the bird and agree with ChrisL, might as well have my tax $$ put to good use and leave a longer lasting impression on the driver...

"Officer officer, he almost ran me off the road AND he gave ME the bird :( "

Unfortunately I'd have to give up the sweet sweet feeling of flipping the bird and agree with ChrisL, might as well have my tax $$ put to good use and leave a longer lasting impression on the driver...

I can think of an even sweeter feeling. Try this: When you get abused by a driver, watch them impassively. Chances are they are looking in the mirror waiting for you to react. If you're riding fast enough to keep watching them (but don't change your pace while you do this, or it becomes obvious), watch their face bend and screw into all kinds of funny expressions as they realise they aren't getting the reaction they were trying to.

It upsets them far more than flipping the bird ever could, and you get a good laugh out of it too! :D

Haha true. I see some guy roar pass me doing 50 on a city street only to be stopped by a light 2 seconds later. Sometimes I see them eye'ing me in their rear view mirror. If I'm feeling particularly playful I'd sneak pass the light, get some momentum and pedal backwards as I'm coasting. Then they'll roar pass me again, start honking, and I'll see them at the next light... In manhattan, you can keep this up for literally 100 blocks if you have enough patience not to just blow by him in traffic. Next time I'll look over, tap on my watch and be like, "come on, hurry up and get with it!"
Poor people and their metal cages.

Next time I'll look over, tap on my watch and be like, "come on, hurry up and get with it!"


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Just my 2 cents

I feel the driver had every right to run him down after being shot.

I realize that Minnesota, being so close to the badlands and all, may still be ruled by frontier justice (or hockey justice for that matter). But in most jurisdictions, unless you are acting in self-defense, the right to ram somebody with your vehicle does not exist.

I bet this thread is going to turn into a real hottie!


Closly tied to this thread (see link below) and couldn't have happened at a better time. But I'm stayin' out of it as THIS thread says it all! :D

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=43841

Digger

Steve, I agree with you, if the trucker was using his vehicle as a weapon to harm the cyclist, then said cyclist has the riqht to protect him self with what ever means availiable. The only part of the story that doesn't make since is the shots being fired point blank. Sounds like the driver pulled up next to the cyclist, that being the case the shoot doesn't sound justified. I have had a few brush backs while cycling as has everyone, the rage builds so fast, I am glad I didn't have a gun!


Bingo! Been there.

Digger
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=43841

Definitely not justified, but both of those guys should be under arrest.

Agreed! What would have happened had the cyclist not pulled out the GUN? Additionally, the pickup driver used his truck as a weapon to stop the fleeing cyclist. The way I see it, both these guys belong in jail.

Originally Posted by Schiek
I realize that Minnesota, being so close to the badlands and all, may still be ruled by frontier justice (or hockey justice for that matter). But in most jurisdictions, unless you are acting in self-defense, the right to ram somebody with your vehicle does not exist.


He only hit him hard enough to stop him. Not even hard enough to injure him. That sounds like reasonable force to stop someone who just shot him. No different then cops hitting another car in a high speed chase to stop it. No intent to kill just to stop the person and then let the courts take care of it. If this sounds too harsh to you and everyone else out there then it explains why crime is so high in D.C.