Mountain Biking - Need help making own clipless shoe

I read on a website that you can convert this waterproof hiking shoe to a clipless shoe. You're supposed to mount a plate into the shoe, then attache the cleat to the plate to prevent it from ripping.

But it looks like SYTACE doesn't make the mounting plate anymore. Anyone know how to get put the cleat in so it won't rip through the sole?????

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=18641&storeId=1&catalogId=1&langId=-1&parentCategory=3815&cat4=2074&shop_method=pp&feat=bc

well, i never tried anything like this... but in theory it shouldn't be too hard.

i think the best option would be to drill/cut 2 holes (or 2 slots as most bike shoes have) all the way through the shoe. then get a relatively thin metal plate, say 2" x 2" and put it in the shoe. then you probably need some kind of a spacer to take up place where the sole was and then screw the cleat into the plate... the only real problem with this simple solution is that the nut will be ABOVE the plate and even through the insole might be noticeable on the foot.

a better solution would be to somehow screw/weld the nuts or another holder under the plate...

an old pair of bike shoes i had/have (i think Specialized Rockhoppers from '97) was basically this "design": there are 2 slot holes in the sole and a thin plate with nuts integrated into the underside of the plate. you simply take out the insole, put the plate in the shoe, screw the cleat on to the plate from the outside and then put the insole back. of course the screws need to be the right length so they don't protrude into the foot area.

i think your biggest problem will be sealing the sole for waterproofness with the holes in the sole... i suppose you could try gluing a rubber piece from the inside, but not sure how well it would work.

you could probably make some sort of U shaped bracket that covers the width of your sole and have the tabs come up the side of the shoe. Drill a hole all the way through the sole and throw a skinny bolt through it. My buddy was thinking of doing something similar to his snoboard boots. The tabs that clip into the binding are on teh side of the boot and are made of plastic so he was going to fab something out of aluminum for it.

i think your biggest problem will be sealing the sole for waterproofness with the holes in the sole... i suppose you could try gluing a rubber piece from the inside, but not sure how well it would work.

nathank
I found instructions on the web on how to do this...but no waterproofing. Hmmmm...what about some waterproof sealant that they use for electrical connections?

http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/boots.html

Just buy some "Goo" and coat the inside of the sole with it. That or some silicone sealant from an Automotive store like some RVT.

L8R

Let us know how it goes. I was thinking of doing something similar with a pair of shoes for the office - trainers aren't really approved but a chunky soled shoe would be fine.

yeah, do let us know how it goes. i have recently decided that it is about time to retire my hiking shoes and buy new ones - they're 9 years old and have seen LOTS of use and the tread on the sole is wearing down and they're no longer fully waterproof despite waxing, but they are in good shape AND i have been using them this winter as my really cold weather boots (they are MUCH warmer than my Gaerne winter cycling shoes)... so making them into winter bke shoes seems like a good use for them...

i probably won't get around to doing the work until next year, but let us know how it works out.

Let us know how it goes. I was thinking of doing something similar with a pair of shoes for the office - trainers aren't really approved but a chunky soled shoe would be fine.

The shoes arrived today and the soles look like this. I've got the sheet metal. But I don't know exactly where to drill the holes? Thought I could take my other shoe (the inner sole pads are exactly same size). and just line it up to drill the hole. But the boot is much thicker all around.

Any idea how to get an accurate copy of where to drill the SPD holes in the shoes?

well, i never tried anything like this... but in theory it shouldn't be too hard.


*** See previous post on the shoe mentioned in this posting! ***

The local bike shop said it'd never work because the sole is not hard, so you'd keep having to tighten them until they just rip out of the sole.

He said the SPD adapter that goes inside the shoe to stabilize the whole thing, would raise the level of the shoe and that the foot would be uncomfortable.

Of course, he had "just the shoe" on sale. Whatever he had didn't look like it could hold up to anything. So he added...o add those goretex sox and some booties and you'll be good to go...

Didn't have the heart to tell him, that I already "bought the farm" on those gadgets and with wind resistance, they just don't cut it.

At 20F, going 35mph on a long decent the wind chill is well below zero... guess I'm hozed on this clipless setup. :(

The local bike shop said it'd never work because the sole is not hard, so you'd keep having to tighten them until they just rip out of the sole.
yes, this is a concern. so i think the plate should be relatively large -- i think a FULL metal insole would NOT rip through. and as i mentioned before, the sole is probably much thicker than regular cycling shoes so you will probably need some kind of spacers, washers and/ maybe another metal plate on the outside of the sole so the srcews don't rip through the rubber. and the holes/slots should not be drilled any larger than they need to be.


He said the SPD adapter that goes inside the shoe to stabilize the whole thing, would raise the level of the shoe and that the foot would be uncomfortable.[/vrkelley]
this is an issue, but i think you could make it work, by 1) trying to keep the plate thin and bolts small (or better fusing the bolts to the underside as i mentioned in a previous post) and 2) using a relatively thick insole. i personally have long but not very voluminous feet so i usually use 2 insoles in hiking boots anyway...

[quote=vrkelley]Didn't have the heart to tell him, that I already "bought the farm" on those gadgets and with wind resistance, they just don't cut it.

At 20F, going 35mph on a long decent the wind chill is well below zero... guess I'm hozed on this clipless setup.
agreed! like i said, i have Winter shoes that i wear with thick hiking socks, gore-tex socks and neoprene overshoes... and when it's really cold my feet still get cold as this sock + shoe + overshoe is still not as thick and insulating as a pair or insulated hiking boots.

i still think it could work. if i get the chance to pick up some sheetmetal i think i will give it a shot (that could be months)

The shoes arrived today and the soles look like this. I've got the sheet metal. But I don't know exactly where to drill the holes? Thought I could take my other shoe (the inner sole pads are exactly same size). and just line it up to drill the hole. But the boot is much thicker all around.

Any idea how to get an accurate copy of where to drill the SPD holes in the shoes?
that sounds about right. the important part is to allign the cleats relative to your FOOT, not the shoe, so using the insole is good. although it may not be that easy: ideally you could put the insole in the shoe and drill the outline of the slots, but from most hiking boots i know, you will not be able to drill/cut from the inside of the shoe! so you will then probabaly have to "guess" by feel/markings with the insole inside and then drill from the outside (or put the insole in, then take it out and try and put it in the same spot on the outside, then drill the outlines)

if for some reason the above is too hard... another possiblity (which may not work is the sole is stiff) is to figure out where you foot is in the shoe from the outside, by looking at where the boot bends, but like i said if the sole is really thick or stiff, may not work.

if you go with the slot method, then all you need to worry about is the left-right allignment - spacing is easy with the old insole or the cleat itself.

although it's probably BEST if you drill single holes instead of a plate... although you could just try 2, test it and then if it's off by a bit, drill 2 more holes (still less material removed than the slot method). also drilling holes is probably easier than cutting slots.

*** See previous post on the shoe mentioned in this posting! ***

The local bike shop said it'd never work because the sole is not hard, so you'd keep having to tighten them until they just rip out of the sole.

<snip>
:(

hey vrk,

have you thought about taking the shoes into a cobbler? they can slice the soles down and insert a metal plate into the sole and basically turn them into a good winder riding clipless set of shoes. may cost a bit but it sounds as if it may be worth it to you. they probably even have or can get all the gear you'd need to do it.

just a thought.

cheers
kat

With the dearth of good winter foot gear out there, it seems like someone would sell a carbon or fiberglass insole. You could then epoxy some gripnuts to, or use some nutserts on the insole, silicone or shoe goo it into the boot (after clearing a hole in the sole), and it would seem you'd be good to go. I wonder if a podiatrist could get you a generic fiberglass insole?

With the dearth of good winter foot gear out there, it seems like someone would sell a carbon or fiberglass insole. You could then epoxy some gripnuts to, or use some nutserts on the insole, silicone or shoe goo it into the boot (after clearing a hole in the sole), and it would seem you'd be good to go. I wonder if a podiatrist could get you a generic fiberglass insole?

Fiberglass you say...hmmm never heard of it...Maybe I'll hang on to those boots another day or so and sort these good ideas out. Unlike the store shoes, the toebox is wider and would give good airflow. Appears warm.

The shoe cannot rip out, esp in traffic. That'd be pretty bad.

hey vrk,

have you thought about taking the shoes into a cobbler? they can slice the soles down and insert a metal plate into the sole and basically turn them into a good winder riding clipless set of shoes. may cost a bit but it sounds as if it may be worth it to you. they probably even have or can get all the gear you'd need to do it.

just a thought.

cheers
kat

This might just work. Seems they adjust shoes all the time for people with one leg shorter than the other!

[QUOTE=nathank]yes, this is a concern. so i think the plate should be relatively large -- i think a FULL metal insole would NOT rip through. and as i mentioned before, the sole is probably much thicker than regular cycling shoes so you will probably need some kind of spacers, washers and/ maybe another metal plate on the outside of the sole so the srcews don't rip through the rubber. and the holes/slots should not be drilled any larger than they need to be.

QUOTE]
The bike man said that the screws would poke through the sole and dig into the foot. Haven't figured out how to get around that. Perhaps that's where that fiberglass sole should go between the fussy sole and the metal plate. See the attached drawing. And excuse it's crudeness.

The bike man said that the screws would poke through the sole and dig into the foot. Haven't figured out how to get around that. Perhaps that's where that fiberglass sole should go between the fussy sole and the metal plate. See the attached drawing. And excuse it's crudeness.
actually Buzzbomb (i think) and i kind of addressed that already.

first option is to use small nuts and cut the screws as short as possible (maybe even bore a recessed area for the nuts) and then use thick insoles to hopefully cover up the nut protrusion.

the better option is to mount the nuts on the UNDERSIDE of the plate-insole. this way they do not protrude at all! here there are basically 2 options 1) fuse (glue/weld) the nuts to the underside of the sole (although MUST be strong so glueing probably won't work but welding should be ok, but then not everyone can eld something!) or 2) use other screws where the head comes from the top through the plate so the head is flush with the plate and thus secure the nuts. here you'd be "building" something and it would weigh a little more, but probably not a concern with winter shoes.

the better option is to mount the nuts on the UNDERSIDE of the plate-insole. ... 2) use other screws where the head comes from the top through the plate so the head is flush with the plate and thus secure the nuts. here you'd be "building" something and it would weigh a little more, but probably not a concern with winter shoes.

hmmm... When you say:


<where the head comes from the top through the plate?


what do you mean from the top? do you mean from the inside to the outside? If the nuts go on the outside, won't that block the actual cleat nut? Or are they one in the same..

ok, so i got to the do-it-yourself store and bought the following:
* sheet of Aluminmum
* tin snips
* razor cutter

i took out the insole and used it as a template and cut an insole from the aluminum - about 3/4 from the toe to the lower foot, but not the heel. i also filed the sharp edges smooth.

then i used my other shoes and the insoles and measured and marked the holes for the cleat.

then i used the knife cutter to cut away the thread in the area to make it flat.

then i placed the aluminmum insole in the shoe and drilled the 2 holes through the sole from the outside, through the sole and the aluminum.

then i scrwed the cleats on and tried it...

except it didn't work becaue the sole was too thick and "spongey" so the cleats had too much play...

so this is what i did.

i measured and cut another piece of aluminum that fits inside the outter sole in the flat inner part of the sole from the toe to mid-foot. i then drilled 2 holes in the top and bottom and drilled through the sole and the aluminum insole.

the i screwed the outer plate and the insole together using the 2 screws and finally screwd the cleats on (oh, i also drilled these hole in the outer plate).

the scrwes i used were a little too long, so the ends protruded a little into the shoe. luckily these hikign boots are VERY volumous, so i did the following: first placed some foleded newspaper over the screws, and then used an extra insole plus the regular insole... and i can barely feel that something is under there, but not bad.

i tried the pedals and found the cleats were too close to the aluminum plate so i used the shims that came with my Eggbeater cleats for this exact purpose.

TEST!!

anway, today i tried out the shoes and went on a 5 hour mountain ride in semi-muddy conditions on my local trails... and the shoes were AWESOME. ok, today wasn't really all that cold, but the shoes were great. i mounted the right cleat a touch too close to the crank but it is ok and the left cleat is a touch too far to the back. both of these things i could live with, or i could extend the holes a little.

the main thing i need to do is go to the hardware store and buy new screws as the ones i hacve a too long. and maybe adjust the cleats as stated above (but maybe i'll just leave them?) as soon as i do that my shoes should be perfect!!!

i was really not sure what to expect, but they are solid. another plus is the hiking shoes were originally really flexy and now with the 2 aluminum plates they are a lot stiffer which is good for biking. i had to walk a few spots (log crossings and such) and the shoes are WAY more comfortable than even my "hiking" style MTB shoes and of course way better than my race shoes... i'll have to see how they hold up through time. hopefully the outer aluminum plate will be tough enough for walking on rocks and stuff. i thought about buying steel but decided the aluminum would be easier to work with and lighter...

i'll report back in a few weeks after i've put some miles on them... for winter they are DEFINITELY the way to go and even for regular MTBing or Freeriding where you have to walk/hike a lot they might be superior to biking shoes...

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=10571
photo 1: left shoe done, right shoe withe the tread cut away for the outter plate.

SPD_Hiking_Shoe_02.JPG
photo 2: from left
extra insole
aluminum insole
outer aluminum plate
screws
SPD_Hiking_Shoe_03.JPG
photo 3: close-up of the outer plate with the cleat mounted
SPD_Hiking_Shoe_04.JPG
photo 4:
after the first 5 hour test-ride - one shoe from the side, other shoe of the bottom

nathank! You be 'd man! Ultra-cool!

(try images again)
photo 1: left shoe done, right shoe withe the tread cut away for the outter plate.

photo 2: from left extra insole aluminum insole outer aluminum plate screws

photo 3: close-up of the outer plate with the cleat mounted

photo 4: after the first 5 hour test-ride - one shoe from the side, other shoe of the bottom

>i need to do is go to the hardware store and buy new screws as the ones i have are too long

Wow your shoes are really cool!
To get the exact size, you can probably saw them off. Don't know what would work the best. Maybe a hack saw?

>have you thought about taking the shoes into a cobbler?

Vix,
I did not find a shoe cobbler within even 40miles..! So Guess what I'm doing while reading this forum! :)
That's right cutting the sole and filing down the shoe.

Wow your shoes are really cool!
To get the exact size, you can probably saw them off. Don't know what would work the best. Maybe a hack saw?
yeah, i used a metal saw to cut off the too-long screws, although this time i mounted the cleats without the shims and on my platform/clipless pedals the cleats are too far recessed so the thread prohibits the cleat from clicking in... so now i have to buy more extra long screws to re-mount the cleats with the shims (as i already cut the other screws to the length without the shims)

so tonight they should FINALLY be complete!

yeah, i used a metal saw to cut off the too-long screws, although this time i mounted the cleats without the shims and on my platform/clipless pedals the cleats are too far recessed so the thread prohibits the cleat from clicking in... so now i have to buy more extra long screws to re-mount the cleats with the shims (as i already cut the other screws to the length without the shims)


I made the plates and cut off the tread for the outer plate. The cleat is still too high. Haven't figured out how to shave off more of the shoe so it is a level surface for the cleat and plate.

For the outter shim, I see that you sort of seated it in the surrounding (remaining) tread. Does that shim shift or flop at all or is the placement of the screws by the goes and arch keep it pretty stable?

For the outter shim, I see that you sort of seated it in the surrounding (remaining) tread. Does that shim shift or flop at all or is the placement of the screws by the goes and arch keep it pretty stable?
by the design of the shoe tread it is VERY stable. the outer sole was higher and the inner area already recessed with just a few knobs that i shaved off.

so after i shaved them off so it was flat, there was a large flat recessed area and the "walls" of the surrounding tread are over a 1/4 inch thick so the plte does not move at all ("walled" over 90% of the circumference)

i think even if you have another tread pattern, if you cut the inner area flat it should in effect be "recessed" and the remaining outer tread should hold the plate pretty well.

although even if there are no "walls" i think it should stay in place relatively well as there are a total of 4 screws between the 2 plates... and if they are tight it should be relatively secure.


I made the plates and cut off the tread for the outer plate. The cleat is still too high. Haven't figured out how to shave off more of the shoe so it is a level surface for the cleat and plate.
as i started i thought about this a bit... i actually bought some wood-cutter tools with which i had planned to "carve" out the area btu then didn't need them. i bought a kit for like $10 - another alternative but not as cheap would be to use a Drimmel tool (it's a high-speed drill-like tool with various heads that allows you to carve out all kinds of stuff in various materials - should easily cut through a rubber/vibrum sole)

The 10-32 flat head screws that I got seemed to fit OK But the nut is just too lumpy even with 2 liners in it. It looks like the nut is the same size as pictured. I'm gong to go back and try to get narrower ones.

i am using 4mmx30mm - i have now done it so the "head" plus a washer is on the inside of the shoe and the nut with locknut on the outside (in pictures different). the "head" is a flathead screwdriver so i used one of the "s" screwdrivers to hold it in place while i tightened the nuts from the outside. and then i cut the screws to be flush with the nut with a saw...

so there are 4 head-washers above the inner aluminmum plate. At first i had newspaper + 2 insoles in the shoe... but it was too tight. today i have ONLY the originial insole and the shoes are comfortable (i am wearing them all day at work)

i actually did not expect them to turn out SO well!! they are great to walk in as the cleat is recessed more than on regular shoes. the shoes are stiff with the 2 metal plates... and the shoes are warm as well as very "normal" looking plus i can walk on marble and other hard-floors without the clip-clop of most clipless shoes... (only on uneven surfaces like cobblestone or gravel do the cleats contact)

heck i'm even considering using these as my touring shoes as they are so comfortable to walk in!! but i'll have to see with time if they are as good to ride in as they seem to be...

[QUOTE=nathank]
i actually did not expect them to turn out SO well!! they are great to walk in as the cleat is recessed more than on regular shoes.
QUOTE]

I've attached the cleats similar to what you tried but have not screwed down the outerplates My success has been limited. Lots of clinking and clanking. Sounds like the metal inersole is flexing and then the outer sole is flexing.

I shaved off about 2mm so the cleat will sit in there better. Screwing dwon the inner and outer plates will certainly stabilize the whole thing, but do you think it'll stop the clinking?

Maybe Epoxy would be better?

well, after re-adjusting the cleats again with another set of spacers... i rode 4 hours Sunday in cold temps and snow and then 3.5 hours Monday in 5" powder on top of hard-pack with temps about -4C (25F)... and the shoes are AWESOME. even with my feet completed covered in snow (from pushin the bike up steep inclines in POWDER where i was sinking to mid-calf) and the cold temps my "always-cold" sensitive feet were warm! and with the Crank Brothers Mallet C pedals the cleats stayed very snow-free (my friend with Shimanos had MAJOR problems with ice crunks). and the clip-in and release was absolutely perfect. stable, secure, stiff enough... wow! i might even stark using the boots for all my tours where weight is not a factor (they are obviously heavier than MTB shoes)


Screwing dwon the inner and outer plates will certainly stabilize the whole thing, but do you think it'll stop the clinking?
not sure. i used washers and locknuts and bolted the 2 plates pretty tightls together -- the sole/tread "bends" just a little from the tightness. so this provides a VERY stabil platform to which i secured the cleats. so yeah, try and screw the 2 plates together as tightls as possible. if they are secure with the sole between then they should stay fixed relative to each other and the shoe and then the cleats can be firmly attached...

i hope it works for you. mine are AWESOME!

<snip>

</snip>
another alternative but not as cheap would be to use a Drimmel tool (it's a high-speed drill-like tool with various heads that allows you to carve out all kinds of stuff in various materials - should easily cut through a rubber/vibrum sole)
if you go w/ a dremmel (very cool tool btw) you can get several types of attachments for it. some of them come w/ a pen like hosing that you can use the tip like a pencil. if you get that type make sure it's detachable as: 1.)cleaning and re-oiling it are much simpler and 2.) you can remove it and place the dremmel into a drop sleave like attachment that will gadge the depth of the tools grinder. very cool for making sure you don't over/under carve, and making a nice smooth surface to work with.

cheers
kat

i hope it works for you. mine are AWESOME!

Here's what I"m trying: Post and Screws that look like this. http://www.adss.net/1001099.aspThe chamber holds the screw independent of the sole. No sore feet because the head is flat against the steel plate

Here's how:
=======================
1. Insert the The flat end of a 3/8" post from the inside of the shoe.
2. Put a dash of LockTITE Meadium Strength thead lock on the threads
3. Now assemble the cleat and plate
4 Insert the black countersink screw throw the post and cinch down with a hex screw driver.
5. Let it dry.

It was 32F (0C) today. The goretex socks barely cut it. I really need to get these shoes done.

so after i shaved them off so it was flat



NaThank,
How thick would you say the sole is where the cleat sits? Mine is 1/2inch (1.2cm) and I need to shave off about another 1/4inch (.6cm) to make the cleat recessed.

I'm using the post and screw idea but still wondering how far I can to before the thing will be too weak?