Training & Nutrition - 12,000 calories a day?

I find it difficult to believe that Michael Phelps could be burning ~9000 calories a day in the pool, allowing for 3000 a day for BMR and incidental calorie burn. The figures I've seen for Tour de France riders suggest they consume 7000 to 8000 calories a day during the tour. This would mean he's burning about 50% more calories per day in training than tour riders are burning during the race. I'm not buying it.

Swimming in a very intensive sport, how it compares to riding I dont know any exact numbers. In my option it is right their with biking in intensity if not a little more cause swimmers uses more of their body. Not bashing riding in any way but thats based on my past experances when I did swim for awhile. They have a lot of differences between them.

However lets look at this, Phelps is a machine and is not your average swimmer in my option. I would honestly compare it to how Lance compared to other riders body had a advantage in the way it worked.

I suspect these sorts of numbers have a lot of "fudge" in them (based on assumptions and variables), so I wouldn't put too fine a point on it.

- Mark

In his peak training he is swimming 80,000 meters a week, minimum.

That is a freakin ton of swimming. Plus an hour a day of dryland training.

And, the dude is big. 6'4'', 200 pounds. and 21. What is the average tour rider, 150 pounds maybe?

His metabolism would be off the charts at that size and age.

I suspect also that he needs to eat that much to be more buoyant in the water. Esp fatty food, they float and he loves to eat out. I recall this from those hydrostatic fat test. So hes lighter in water then heavier in total weight so he floats with more momentum.

Now he just signed up to be in a Frosted Flakes box. I love that cereal and it gave me 6-lbs while I did 60 miles a week. Since I quit and doubled up the miles, Im back to my usual weight.

In his peak training he is swimming 80,000 meters a week, minimum.

That is a freakin ton of swimming. Plus an hour a day of dryland training.

And, the dude is big. 6'4'', 200 pounds. and 21. What is the average tour rider, 150 pounds maybe?

His metabolism would be off the charts at that size and age.

spot on.

later.

And, the dude is big. 6'4'', 200 pounds. and 21.

Not mention, NO BODY FAT. The guy is a freak of nature. It would be hard to compare this to the norm.

8 hours of swimming is more work than 8 hours of bike riding. Swimming is like running.

A hilarious article in today's Globe & Mail (a Toronto newspaper)...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080819.wlphelps20/BNStory/lifeMain/home

A journalist who's approximately Phelps' height and weight attempted to consume 12,000 calories in a day. He came up well short, as one might imagine.

http://images.theglobeandmail.com/archives/RTGAM/images/20080819/wlphelps20/0820phelpsgraphic400big.jpg

And, the dude is big. 6'4'', 200 pounds. and 21. What is the average tour rider, 150 pounds maybe?

His metabolism would be off the charts at that size and age.

Yep, if you are over the age of 25, think how much your metabolism changed (slowed down) from 21 to 25 or worse yet, 30.

Not mention, NO BODY FAT. The guy is a freak of nature. It would be hard to compare this to the norm.

I'm under the impression that swimmer's body fat % is higher than most weight-restricted athletes. Something to do with buoyancy and the HR range of the activity.

8 hours of swimming is more work than 8 hours of bike riding. Swimming is like running.No, it depends on how hard you push yourself. Lance, Jan and Miguel on the bike in a lab can burn O2 at rate comparable to other top athletes. So they are getting every bit as good a workout, and using the same number of calories.

No, it depends on how hard you push yourself. Lance, Jan and Miguel on the bike in a lab can burn O2 at rate comparable to other top athletes. So they are getting every bit as good a workout, and using the same number of calories.

Well, that's not the only variable. A cyclist training in Belgium and a cyclist training in Mallorca or Australia from November through February are going to burn vastly different calories from day to day due simply to temperature. Swimmers have a lot of basal metabolic increase as well (due to tons of time spent in cool water) as the calories burnt indicated in a lab via vapor testing.

bicycle riding used more calories than swimming, aside from circut training nothing burns more calories. I read different accounts of what he eats, oddly enough they keep getting larger and larger like a talltale

he started at something like 4000kcal (the headline said 12000 though). I guess they figured out that his meals where nowhere close to 12000 calories so they added more food (larger portions) to the supposed menu. then I still did not add up to 12000 so added more drinks to the supposed menu. oh brother!

Ignore it.

If they are claiming 5 hours of training a day for him there is no way he is burning 8000 calories in 5 hours. Thats allowing 4000 calories for BMR + incidentals which is also generous.

He should be doing the equivalent of three marathons per day then.

Right.

I would believe that in any intense cardiovascular sport, an elite-level athlete would be consuming at least double the standard intake (i.e., 6,000 calories). Yes, their BMR might be less than 3500 calories, but hours of practice in the pool, on the bike or during an intense run can easily take up 2000 calories within a few hours.

I know that in my 80 mile ride to Nyack, I easily burn about 2000 calories. That's just going by the standard caloric output of a moderate ride, which is about 500 calories/hour.

I would believe that in any intense cardiovascular sport, an elite-level athlete would be consuming at least double the standard intake (i.e., 6,000 calories)..

i don't see what the big deal is 'bout 12000kcal.

during the school year when i was doing my thing at school + biking + weight lifting, i was consuming 4000 - 5000kcal/day. i have a friend who did a lot of swimming. he was on a similar diet as me. around 5000kcal/day. all the other guys were in around 2500kcal/day, and the girls down at 1800 - 2300kcal/day.

i don't see why it's so hard to believe that a pro would consume 12000kcal.

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the picture in jefferee's post brought me much laughter... but how can you eat that much for breakfast? i eat practically nothing for breakfast. small breakfast + constant snacking 'till lunch is my route. i usually have a massive lunch + large dinner. i find it really difficult to consume more than 1000kcal at breakfast... no problem with lunch... or dinner, though.

i don't see what the big deal is 'bout 12000kcal.

during the school year when i was doing my thing at school + biking + weight lifting, i was consuming 4000 - 5000kcal/day. i have a friend who did a lot of swimming. he was on a similar diet as me. around 5000kcal/day. all the other guys were in around 2500kcal/day, and the girls down at 1800 - 2300kcal/day.

i don't see why it's so hard to believe that a pro would consume 12000kcal.

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the picture in jefferee's post brought me much laughter... but how can you eat that much for breakfast? i eat practically nothing for breakfast. small breakfast + constant snacking 'till lunch is my route. i usually have a massive lunch + large dinner. i find it really difficult to consume more than 1000kcal at breakfast... no problem with lunch... or dinner, though.

try to eat 12000 a day and get back to us. :thumb:

later.

bicycle riding used more calories than swimming, aside from circut training nothing burns more calories. I read different accounts of what he eats, oddly enough they keep getting larger and larger like a talltale

he started at something like 4000kcal (the headline said 12000 though). I guess they figured out that his meals where nowhere close to 12000 calories so they added more food (larger portions) to the supposed menu. then I still did not add up to 12000 so added more drinks to the supposed menu. oh brother!

Ignore it.

that is true. I have followed swimming for a while and I remember the number used to be 10,000/day a year ago.

either way, not too tough for me to believe. I think I was putting down 5000/day at 21 and I wasn't doing anything except playing college football.

try to eat 12000 a day and get back to us. :thumb:

later.

i didn't say i could eat 12000kcal in a day... and now i'm eating less than i did during the school year (probably only hanging around 3000kcal/day).

maybe when the school year starts up again, though. just for something to do ;).

I don't see the big fuss.

What many people do not figure is that when you swim you are in the water. The water is colder than the body. The body expends calories to maintain its elevated temperature.

Besides, Phelps caloric consumption is not that extraordinary. I recall being told of a study on caloric consumption among workers. The tops were lumberjacks in Michigan winters and they ran 12,000 calories per day (I think this was before the job was mechanized).

What many people do not figure is that when you swim you are in the water. The water is colder than the body. The body expends calories to maintain its elevated temperature.


Even if that were true, it's a whole different ballgame when it comes to exercise. Once you get moving enough to break a slight sweat your body is producing more than enough heat.

While I burn 500-700 cals/hour when I workout or train, I can hardly eat more than 2500 calories in a single day (3500 TOPS...and that's when I go out with buddies to eat for dinner or something).

Wouldn't it depend on the type of workout? Some workouts are more intense than others.

While I burn 500-700 cals/hour when I workout or train, I can hardly eat more than 2500 calories in a single day (3500 TOPS...and that's when I go out with buddies to eat for dinner or something).


really? do you count calories? just wondering, because i find it pretty easy to eat 2500 calories. the numbers really start to add up when you count them. i mean everything that goes in. later.

Wouldn't it depend on the type of workout? Some workouts are more intense than others.

That may apply to anaerobic workouts like weight lifting and 100 m sprinting, but for longer events the intensity of the workout only depends on how hard you breathe. To expend calories you burn them with oxygen. Top endurance athletes use a little over 6L O2 per minute at maximum effort. Bigger athletes tend to have a slightly higher VO2 max (peak oxygen burning capacity) than smalller ones, so it is often reported corrected for weight. The best way to know for sure if Phelps works harder in the pool over the course of 5 hours, than Lance does on the bike over 5 hours, is to measure their oxygen utilization while performing. Phelps probably has a slightly higher VO2 max than Lance only because he is bigger. But if Phelps trained on a bike as well as swimming, and as long as he got his legs used to pedalling, he would have the same VO2 max in both settings, since for endurance sports it is how fast you can deliver oxygen to the muscles and clear away CO2 that is the limiting factor, not what kind of actions you are performing, or which muscles you are using.

I find it difficult to believe that Michael Phelps could be burning ~9000 calories a day in the pool, allowing for 3000 a day for BMR and incidental calorie burn. The figures I've seen for Tour de France riders suggest they consume 7000 to 8000 calories a day during the tour. This would mean he's burning about 50% more calories per day in training than tour riders are burning during the race. I'm not buying it.

List your expertise in olympic-level swimming, please.

Okay, I'm trying to get factual.

According to one website, calories (kcal) burned per minute equals the litres of oxygen consumed per minute multiplied by 5.

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/caloricexp.html

So Lance and Jan, whose VO2 max measures are slightly over 6 L/min at peak effort, burn about 30 kcal per minute, or 1800 kcal per hour at maximum aerobic effort. If they could sustain that for 5 hours, it would equate to 9000 calories. Of course you don’t sustain maximum effort for 5 hours. Coyle calculated that at 83% maximal effort (5 L O2 per minute, 1500 kcal per hour) Lance puts out 400 watts of power. So if Lance trained for 5 hours, cruising at an average 400 watts output, he would need to consume about 7500 kcal to fuel the workout, in addition to whatever else he needed to eat for that day.


As for Phelps, Popular Mechanics http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/sports/4275469.html claims that his VO2 max and other physiologic stats “are kept secret” but they claim that “Swimmers consume 1000 kcal per hour in training”. However presumably Phelps puts out more power and consumes more calories per hour than any other swimmer. So quite likely he falls in the same range as the most elite cyclists in the amount of energy he expends and the amount he eats in training.

12,000 calories would be about 5 double QP w/cheese super-sized meals with Triple Chocolate shake:

Double Quarter Pounder® with Cheese = 740
Large French Fries = 500
Chocolate Triple Thick® Shake (32 fl oz cup) = 1160
-----------------------------------------------------
2400 kCals/meal.

I'm intellectually disgusted, but my taste buds are strangely aroused. :D

12,000 calories would be about 5 double QP w/cheese super-sized meals with Triple Chocolate shake:

Double Quarter Pounder® with Cheese = 740
Large French Fries = 500
Chocolate Triple Thick® Shake (32 fl oz cup) = 1160
-----------------------------------------------------
2400 kCals/meal.

I'm intellectually disgusted, but my taste buds are strangely aroused. :D


:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

later.

i'm just guessing here...

sure you may burn 1000kcal doing something for an hour... but doesn't your body use more than 1000kcal in the process? basic metabolic needs aside, don't you need energy for "rebuilding" what you have destroyed in training? aren't you growing?

anyone know anything about this?

i'm just guessing here...

sure you may burn 1000kcal doing something for an hour... but doesn't your body use more than 1000kcal in the process? basic metabolic needs aside, don't you need energy for "rebuilding" what you have destroyed in training? aren't you growing?

anyone know anything about this?

Your basic metabolic needs just for being alive are probably around 1500 kcal/day, or about 60 kcal/hr. The thousand calories you might burn during an hour of Olympic-level exercise includes that 60, so in that case the exercise required 940 kcal above your basic need. If you eat a thousand calories after an hour of intense exercise you replenish what you used.

Presumably you may also need to take in additional energy to fuel any healing of strained muscles or growth of muscle tissue stimulated by the exercise, but I don't know how much you need to eat for that purpose. Probably very little compared to the 940 calories needed to power your exercise.

"List your expertise in olympic-level swimming, please."

I don't need to be an expert on olympic level swimming to have a good layman's understanding of thermodynamics... like the guy who posted this ...

"So Lance and Jan, whose VO2 max measures are slightly over 6 L/min at peak effort, burn about 30 kcal per minute, or 1800 kcal per hour at maximum aerobic effort. If they could sustain that for 5 hours, it would equate to 9000 calories. Of course you don’t sustain maximum effort for 5 hours. Coyle calculated that at 83% maximal effort (5 L O2 per minute, 1500 kcal per hour) Lance puts out 400 watts of power. So if Lance trained for 5 hours, cruising at an average 400 watts output, he would need to consume about 7500 kcal to fuel the workout, in addition to whatever else he needed to eat for that day. "

Training for relatively short duration swimming events likely does not involve averaging 5+ hours per day of continuous sustained near maximal aerobic output.