Living Car Free - Family over Personal Values?

So. I think I have a unique question.

I stopped driving to work in May. I'm really fortunate to be able to live, work, and play all in the same neighborhood, so I've all but sold my car. I keep it around now for taking the dogs to the beach and family visits on the other side of town.

Now, this is the thing. My mom is all about doing "stuff" this summer with my neices. Ya know, museums, boat rides, fests and the like. But, she sold her car last year (Land Rover), because she discovered a car that big and expensive and with such a poor service history just doesn't make sense.

I'm so proud of remaining relatively carless this summer. And (I know I'm preaching to the choir here) the independence blah blah and self-reliance blah blah that comes from being able to go anywhere on your bike is second to none. BUT, I can't help but feel a twinge of guilt when I say I'm going to ride and meet up with them at said museum, fair, or festival instead of coming to pick them up.

Finding parking. And how much it costs. Or worrying about feeding the meter. And traffic. (Yes, I know. Preaching to the choir) And gas. Then taking them back home on the other side of town?! I don't want to deal with it.

Should I feel like a selfish, inflexible jerk for not compromising my principles for my family and putting my 65 year old mom and neices (3 and 14) on the bus? Usually though, my neices mom (my sister) drops them off.


What makes it a bit interesting is that my sister is repulsed by the bus. (And justifiably so, in some neighborhoods) She's a die hard motorist and doesn't want her kids taking the bus. Isn't that crazy?

I'm hoping I can get answers from both sides.

I say if you want to drive, then drive - but don't feel obligated to do so.

Your sister knows your mom doesn't have a car and leaves them anyway. Seems like the decision has been made. I mean, how else are they supposed to get around?

I'd probably consider this an opportunity to expose the kids to their alternatives and leave it as that.

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If it got to the point that your sister wouldn't leave the kids and you were doing it to help your mom out, that would be different.

Thanks. I never wanna drive. I use a quarter of a tank round trip when I go out there. With Chicago's gas prices, that's about $15. If anyone has other comments, I'd like to hear them.

I say if you want to drive, then drive - but don't feel obligated to do so.

Your sister knows your mom doesn't have a car and leaves them anyway. Seems like the decision has been made. I mean, how else are they supposed to get around?

I'd probably consider this an opportunity to expose the kids to their alternatives and leave it as that.

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If it got to the point that your sister wouldn't leave the kids and you were doing it to help your mom out, that would be different.

I think this really sums it up. It seems unfair for your sister to drop off her kids at your mothers house knowing she doesn't drive and expect them to get around without the bus. There is no obligation for you to drive. Plus, I think it's good for kids to lean to use public transportation. I have friends who had never used it before because they really just didn't know how it works, where to look up where it goes, ect. Nothing wrong with exposing them to it.

Sounds like your sister's the more selfish one. Families are weird.

Just a FYI most public transportation systems are fairly safe as the people that might commit crimes on them face hard FEDERAL time not easy state time. Max is 20 years per count.

If your sister is a die-hard motorist, then let her worry about making sure her kids are chauffeured everywhere. It isn't your job to be their driver.

I sounds like your mother is trying to broaden the kids horozions by showing them new interesting things so why not include the bus as on of those interesting things. when kids sit in the car they learn nothing. when they sit on the bus they see people from all different walks of life. i'll also second that the bus is a very safe place.

I'm so proud of remaining relatively carless this summer. And (I know I'm preaching to the choir here) the independence blah blah and self-reliance blah blah that comes from being able to go anywhere on your bike is second to none. BUT, I can't help but feel a twinge of guilt when I say I'm going to ride and meet up with them at said museum, fair, or festival instead of coming to pick them up.

...

Should I feel like a selfish, inflexible jerk for not compromising my principles for my family and putting my 65 year old mom and neices (3 and 14) on the bus? Usually though, my neices mom (my sister) drops them off.

You are willing to spend quality time with your family, including your nieces, and you question if you are selfish?!? Ditch the guilt-trip.

The fourteen year old is old enough to bike. The three year old can go in a trailer or trail-a-bike. Is your mother too infirm to bike? If not, you might get a tandem for her and the teen, with a trailer for the little one; or a triplet with you, your mother, and your older niece with the little one in a trailer. If the old lady is can't bike any more, get a Bakfiest. She can ride in the box, the little one on a child seat mounted to the rear rack, and the older girl can follow along on her own bike.

If you can afford it...get a Baksfiet (http://hankandme.blogspot.com/2008/07/day-69-13-july-2008.html) to cart the younger kids in, along with the paraphernalia. But as others have pointed out, it isn't really your problem. "Family; can't pick them and it is illegal to shoot them":innocent:

Aaron:)

I would say that you are helping to provide them with a wonderful education..one I wish I'd have learned...that you can live your life and do fun and exciting things without depending on cars. You may have two future bike commuters in the making!

Since Chicago's mass transit seems fairly decent, I'd use it. Kids need to know how to use mass transit so they can get around. Of course the 3 year old shouldn't use it on her own, but (with permission) the 14 year old could. (the reason I say with permission is kids vary... some are confident and can handle most sorts of adults, and others are more timid and will do what an adult says even if it's a bad idea. so if the 14 year old is the more timid sort, she might not be ready to go out on her own.)

As the little one gets older, she'll be able to use a trail-a-bike and you won't have to use mass transit all the time. I wouldn't get a box-bike or other specialized bike for this unless you'd use it in your daily life. Kids grow quickly. If your mom would like to bike with the three of you, it's great. More adults make it easier to teach traffic safety. Both nieces will benefit from learning traffic rules before they learn to drive. They'll have an easier time with the rules of the road since they'll be used to using them.

Driving may be useful sometimes. But it probably shouldn't be your default.

Thanks folks. You make good points. Especially since my sister *chooses* not to come.

I'll add this: First my sister doesn't exactly drop the kids off and keep it movin. Its more my moms idea to round everybody up for a day of fun.

And this: though, I love biking and you love biking, everybody comes into it at their own time. This was not supposed to be a "how do I get my family on bikes" thread. Plus, I don't wanna come across as the self-righteous biker saying biking is better. After all, this is big city and while I can do the twelve miles downtown and back in almost a 'snap', their route would be more like 20 miles.

Is your Mom still able to drive?

If so, then offer to sell her your car for a low, but fair, price.

We never had a car growing up and always used public transit. I knew how to travel on the buses, streetcars, and subway from the time I was 10 taking my brother to school, meet my mom after work, go out during the summer, and get to the beach. Yep, I survived. Never an incident. Most of my friends did the same thing (only a small handful had their own car at age 16,17, or 18. Most not until after university or even until they're mid 20s did anyone have a car). Yep, we made it through unscathed going back and forth to school.

I can understand your sister's reluctance but I bet your nieces and mom are having tons of fun getting to places on the bus. I mean, for a 3 year old looking out the window as the scenery goes by, seeing different people, and seated higher than usual in the bus than car, is pretty much heaven. 14 year olds can entertain themselves fairly easily with magazines, books, music players, video games, rich fantasy life, and be able to tolerate a long bus ride. Grandma's will put up with just about anything to hang out with the grandbabies.

20 mile bus trip? No reason to feel guilty. I bet they are having fun. Buses are pretty safe places and rarely get into accidents. I've ridden through some rough neighbourhoods and have never had a problem or difficulty.

The family activities described by the OP (museums, fairs, festivals) seem to be transportation intensive. It might be possible to choose activities with a better proximity factor. Discovering and using all the hidden local resources of a neighborhood is part of the joy of car free living.

Also, there may be an unquestioned car culture based assumption that activities are something you "go to" rather than "do". There are lots of play, sport and craft activities that can be done in a back yard or a local park.

I don't get it - you live in Chicago, and she's worried about not-driving?

Why don't you tell her how many kids have died as passengers in cars over the past year in Chicago, and compare that to the number who died on the bus/train/El?

I've taken all public transit modes in Chicago and have found them to be pleasant, efficient, stress free and fun. Maybe you should tell your sister to lighten up on the bus service and have concern for her kids safety - where is Mothers Against Driving when you need them?

BTW I have driven in Chicago too, and it's not been so bad either... Haven't been killed yet, even though someone tried on Lower Wacker (such a great name :)).

Unfortunately I have not had the chance to ride in Chicago, but my understanding is that cycling is pretty good there too - maybe that is be your best option.

Finally - I suggest you take the kids to the museums, Chicago has some of the best in the world.

Based on the very limited info available, I'd say your sister is being the difficult one. You live in Chicago, where the public transportation is apparently decent; rather that looking like a zealot and buying everyone a bike, I'd stick with that. In the right environment, public transportation can't be beat. If your sister has a problem with that, then the onus is on her to provide the car and the parking fees, especially as she (apparently) sees the whole affair as free babysitting.

I grew up with a mother like your sister, but I have a totally good attitude towards non-car transport, at least in part because I spent a couple summers with my aunt in Germany. My aunt's family had a lot of cars, because they had a car dealership, but they didn't use cars much themselves, because fuel was expensive even then, parking cost money, and traffic was a hassle. We walked a lot and took buses, but mostly we just rode trains. It was fun as a 12 year old to figure out schedules and people-watch, then get to our destination and walk around at will, and I never forgot it. Later, in college, and now, as a car-free old guy, those early experiences turned out to be a valuable reference point. You're providing your nieces a valuable service by doing precisely what you're doing right now.

I just lost my mother after caring for her for the last 5 years. Her favorite
activity was to go for car rides even though she was wheel chair bound and
needed to make frequent bathroom stops. Since you are saving gas
already in so many ways do not feel constrained about using a car
for recreation and family bonding. The time will come when you will
reminisce about your times with your mother and what you could have
done to spend more quality time with her.

Well, a healthy 65 year old could run a marathon so why wouldn't she be able to ride a bus? 65 is young but for elderly people around here in Scandinavia (with one of the highest standards of living in the world) public transportation is certainly the norm, regardless of personal finances.

Taking bus trips with grandparents seems like the very definition of childhood.

i'll also second that the bus is a very safe place.

Considering the possibility of accidents (and the safety record of most professional bus drivers, combined with the large size of buses) you might be safer on the bus than in a car.

Well, since car-free is an ideal, and you are doing real well in that regards, I'd cut yourself some slack and take your Mom and nieces around. It will be unforgettable family time that you'll really appreciate not only now, but for years to come. And your sister will owe you big time.

I'm pretty sure that God won't send you to hell for consuming a few gallons of gas in such a worthy cause.

So. I think I have a unique question.

Should I feel like a selfish, inflexible jerk for not compromising my principles for my family and putting my 65 year old mom and neices (3 and 14) on the bus? Usually though, my neices mom (my sister) drops them off.


What makes it a bit interesting is that my sister is repulsed by the bus. (And justifiably so, in some neighborhoods) She's a die hard motorist and doesn't want her kids taking the bus. Isn't that crazy?



I too am repulsed by buses, I won't use them since they literally make me sick. When the subway and rail system won't get me were I want to go, I take a cab, limo, rental car or plane. If your sister doesn't want her kids taking the bus, she should perhaps drive them.

OTOH, if your sister is driving them and your mother at least half the time and you own a car and have the money to operate it, it wouldn't hurt you to drive them occasionally. You mother has perhaps stopped driving a little early but better too soon than too late. If you own a perfectly serviceable car, telling your mother to take the bus could be interpreted by many (not on this board though) as a lack of the appropriate filial concern.

I just lost my mother after caring for her for the last 5 years. Her favorite
activity was to go for car rides even though she was wheel chair bound and
needed to make frequent bathroom stops. Since you are saving gas
already in so many ways do not feel constrained about using a car
for recreation and family bonding. The time will come when you will
reminisce about your times with your mother and what you could have
done to spend more quality time with her.

You took the words out of my mouth.

Those of us who lost our mothers would kill to be on the OP's place. I will spend the rest of my life thinking of the opportunies lost not spending more quality time with my mother. The good news is the OP can still reverse the situation instead of spending his life in regret.

Oystercatcher you have my condolences.

I think one must make compromises for one's family. It's just an instance of the general rule that having a relationship of any sort requires compromise. And, I've found that bending a bit every now and then is good for me. It gets my focus off "me," is occasionally enlightening, and sometimes reinforces my ideas.

I agree that the CTA is a fine way of getting around. My mom, who hated the city in her middle age, has come to enjoy the independence the train/CTA connection gives her. She has gotten a kick out of introducing her friends to it.

But whether the CTA is good or not your mom is 65, and if she's not willing to learn new ways of living, help her out occasionally. She apparently wants to show her grandkids a good time and spend time with you. And, it's better in the long run for everyone if grandma spends time with the kids and grandkids. Not only is it positive for the grandkids and maybe for you, many of the alternative ways seniors have to spend time are pretty awful - watching tv all day? complaining about their relatives? calling incessantly because they want company? worrying about mystery or real ailments? Eventually you may find yourself trying to get your mom into a car, out of the house, and doing almost anything.

If you feel compelled to do something that coincides more with your principles - as I often am - get your niece and nephew on bikes - isn't there a rental place near the zoo? Or, if it's conceivable, get your mom on the lakefront path. If she's not terrified, she might even enjoy it.

( My mom's 75, rides across a couple states every year, and has accumulated several loaner bikes for visitors to ride around town. She just told me she's doing the Pullman history ride soon. )

http://www.wicycle.com/special_needs_extra_large_bicycle_trailer.php

This trailer will take people up to 5'10"/150 lbs, so you could put your mother in it and put the 3-year-old in a trailer behind the 14-year-old's bike, and off you go.

i vote for puttin' 'em on the bus.

Thanks folks. You make good points. Especially since my sister *chooses* not to come.

I'll add this: First my sister doesn't exactly drop the kids off and keep it movin. Its more my moms idea to round everybody up for a day of fun.

And this: though, I love biking and you love biking, everybody comes into it at their own time. This was not supposed to be a "how do I get my family on bikes" thread. Plus, I don't wanna come across as the self-righteous biker saying biking is better. After all, this is big city and while I can do the twelve miles downtown and back in almost a 'snap', their route would be more like 20 miles.

wtf's wrong w/ public transport, unless your ma has bad knees, or something.