kuf
08-23-08, 01:12 PM
umd raced at San Ardo today and won the Cat 4B race.
"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - He Raced. He won.
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08-23-08, 01:18 PM
good for him
umd
08-23-08, 01:41 PM
that was fun. Results are cluster-f'd... Still waiting :mad:
umd
08-23-08, 02:34 PM
I got my $20 and my t-shirt :D
Lithuania
08-23-08, 03:31 PM
way to go :beer:
mkadam68
08-23-08, 03:44 PM
zzzWillzzz had told me I should do that one. Maybe I should have :D
Chucklehead
08-23-08, 03:54 PM
Outstanding. Congrats!
Wanderer
08-23-08, 03:55 PM
Congrats - wish I could do that.
Snuffleupagus
08-23-08, 03:59 PM
How'd it play out?
urbanknight
08-23-08, 04:17 PM
Nice job!!! How about a play-by-play report?
merlinextraligh
08-23-08, 04:29 PM
congrats
Naterider
08-23-08, 04:30 PM
That purple and pink shirt is quite possibly the ugliest thing I have ever seen. But I crashed and am bitter. Congrats!
UmneyDurak
08-23-08, 04:36 PM
Congrats. Doing University tomorrow?
merckx89
08-23-08, 05:43 PM
How'd it play out?
Indeed, you know were expecting a race report.
Indeed, you know were expecting a race report.
wanders
08-23-08, 05:49 PM
kuf, while umd is still basking, how about some details.:)
mooseracer
08-23-08, 05:51 PM
It's too bad VP split the 4s field into two groups when we only had 2 riders over the 65 rider limit. The 4(a) group had 40 riders and the 4(b) group had 27 riders.
Chucklehead
08-23-08, 06:20 PM
It's too bad VP split the 4s field into two groups when we only had 2 riders over the 65 rider limit. The 4(a) group had 40 riders and the 4(b) group had 27 riders.
Did you win the 4a race?
Did you win the 4a race?
redal
08-23-08, 06:22 PM
Did you win the 4a race?
Read post #1. Chuckles, I expect to see you in the Pro/1-2-3 race tomorrow.
Read post #1. Chuckles, I expect to see you in the Pro/1-2-3 race tomorrow.
Chucklehead
08-23-08, 06:27 PM
Read post #1. Chuckles, I expect to see you in the Pro/1-2-3 race tomorrow.
I was asking mooseracer, who seems a little bitter about umd winning.
And dude.. I'm fat. I'd barely keep up with the 4/5's right now. I'm gonna TRY to hang in with the 3's, but I'm carpooling and the dude who's driving won't want to stick around for the P123. If this was a month ago, I'd jump right in, but I've really fallen off since the last Ontario.
I was asking mooseracer, who seems a little bitter about umd winning.
And dude.. I'm fat. I'd barely keep up with the 4/5's right now. I'm gonna TRY to hang in with the 3's, but I'm carpooling and the dude who's driving won't want to stick around for the P123. If this was a month ago, I'd jump right in, but I've really fallen off since the last Ontario.
urbanknight
08-23-08, 06:35 PM
Oh yeah, does this mean you guys are going to upgrade to 3 for next year and give us pack fodder a chance? (Actually, I have a long way to go no matter what)
umd
08-23-08, 07:09 PM
First, no on University. Although Ironically that race should play more to my strengths thn San Ardo, a) I've heard its a crash-fest, b) it is a 4/5 race with a field limit of 50, and c) it was full :p
Here is the play by play. I'm going to put this on my blog also so Im writing it somewhat geared toward that.
Lemonade
When life, or in my case today, the racing officials give you lemons, make lemonade. I had driven up with a friend Bill with the hopes of racing with him. I also had some other friends in the race. No teammates though, they were all in other categories. We lined up a few minutes early and I met pelikan (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?u=36657) and some of his Roaring Mouse teammates. I noticed a few teams with good numbers: there were 4 Roaring Mousers, 4 Webcorers, and 5 or so Colavitians. Then there was me, my friend, and a few friends from UCSB.
However, none of that mattered because we were two riders over the field limit, and the official decided to split the field by bib number. Riders 241 and up, you are field B. I look over to Bill and his number is 240. What's my number? 246. Crap. Everyone else I knew was still in the first field. They go off and all that was left were 11 of us. 11. "This is going to suck", I thought. As it turned out, there was one guy from our field (245) that left with the first field.
Now this is a flat race. I'm a climber so I wasn't even planning on doing it but my teammates insisted that I can't waste my current form. Who am I to argue? I was pleasantly surprised that there was a bit of a climb. Not much, just about 200 feet in 3 miles, but it led up to the finish at about 4% before turning onto a side road for .1 mile to the line.
The first lap was fairly uneventful. With such a small group the pace was initially slower than I was used to in a cat 4 race. I felt like I could have gone faster but of course didn't want to pull the whole race and burn myself out. Once we left the initial hilly part and entered into the endless flats and rollers, the pace picked up quite a bit as the big guys pushed things along. I spent most of the first lap watching people and experimented. A few times I intentionally caused a gap to see how people would react, how well/quickly they would close the gap, etc. I took relatively short pulls on the flats but pushed up the rises to put people in difficulty. I could tell who had trouble when the road pitched up as they were huffin' and puffin', pedaling squares, jumping out of the saddle and/or shifting to their small chainring. There were a few guys who were not having trouble and I knew early on that they would be the ones to watch for at the finish. Somewhere along the first lap I realized that I was in a good situation and could win the race if I played my cards right.
Three interesting things happened in the second lap. First, we popped 3 riders going up the "climb". Second, we picked up #245. Third, we were neutralized by the Masters 1/2/3 field when they came by. The moto official that told us that we were going to be neutralized recognized that #245 was from the first field and told him that he could ride with us but he had to pull off before the finish. After we were neutralized, we started to catch the masters again but eventually they picked up their pace and we lost sight of them. I spent more time this lap testing people for weaknesses. Of course up the rollers but also took some hard pulls on the flats to see if anybody was just hanging on by a thread. The result was that there were several people that seemed ripe to be popped if pushed hard enough. It was on the second lap that I knew I could win.
The third lap was about trying to whittle the field down. Another guy and I hit the hill hard to try to pop some people, but although they were clearly just hanging on, it wasn't long enough to do sufficient damage, and we weren't willing to dig deep enough to force the issue. About 1/3 of the lap in, one guy we were calling "socks" (because he had stylin' knee-high argyle socks) rolled off the front and I covered him. He started to form a bit of a gap and I attacked. I got a good bit up the road and went into TT mode holding at a bridgeable distance off the front. I was hoping that somebody would come across but nobody did. After a few minutes of that I decided there was no point in burning myself out, eased up and fell back to the field. About 2/3 of the way in, I tried a few times to get something going again but either nobody would go with me or we would get swallowed up quickly. On the third lap, depsite not being able to get a break going, I knew I should win.
Approaching town it was clear nothing was going to stick so I stopped trying, instead conserving energy for the inevitable sprint finish. Coming through town I wanted to be near the front but up to this point I had shown a little too much of my hand and I was marked by everyone, and they pretty much kept me in front. It was a game of cat and mouse all through town, swerving all over the road, looking back, etc. We were even going pretty slow. I figured If I was going to be in the front, it was going to be on my terms. A few times someone would made a move and I would sit on their wheel. Going into the feed zone at the start of the climb, I ramped up my effort past LT and pushed hard toward the turn to the finish. I wanted to be second wheel going into the turn and ended up neck-and-neck on the inside of socks. As soon as I hit the corner I was out of the saddle and hit full afterburned to the line. I could tell that nobody was near me as I approached so I looked back and considered a victory salute. I thought better of it and crossed the line with both hands on my bars, but "punched the air" immediately after and held up both hands in victory after I passed the gathered crowd.
Everybody congratulated me. Socks got second and the guy I tried to form a break with a few times and worked with to pop people on the hill got third. They told me later that I was the strongest in the race and it was all they could do to stay on my wheel through the feed zone, by the time the sprint came they had nothing left. I won by a very convincing margin.
Here is the play by play. I'm going to put this on my blog also so Im writing it somewhat geared toward that.
Lemonade
When life, or in my case today, the racing officials give you lemons, make lemonade. I had driven up with a friend Bill with the hopes of racing with him. I also had some other friends in the race. No teammates though, they were all in other categories. We lined up a few minutes early and I met pelikan (http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?u=36657) and some of his Roaring Mouse teammates. I noticed a few teams with good numbers: there were 4 Roaring Mousers, 4 Webcorers, and 5 or so Colavitians. Then there was me, my friend, and a few friends from UCSB.
However, none of that mattered because we were two riders over the field limit, and the official decided to split the field by bib number. Riders 241 and up, you are field B. I look over to Bill and his number is 240. What's my number? 246. Crap. Everyone else I knew was still in the first field. They go off and all that was left were 11 of us. 11. "This is going to suck", I thought. As it turned out, there was one guy from our field (245) that left with the first field.
Now this is a flat race. I'm a climber so I wasn't even planning on doing it but my teammates insisted that I can't waste my current form. Who am I to argue? I was pleasantly surprised that there was a bit of a climb. Not much, just about 200 feet in 3 miles, but it led up to the finish at about 4% before turning onto a side road for .1 mile to the line.
The first lap was fairly uneventful. With such a small group the pace was initially slower than I was used to in a cat 4 race. I felt like I could have gone faster but of course didn't want to pull the whole race and burn myself out. Once we left the initial hilly part and entered into the endless flats and rollers, the pace picked up quite a bit as the big guys pushed things along. I spent most of the first lap watching people and experimented. A few times I intentionally caused a gap to see how people would react, how well/quickly they would close the gap, etc. I took relatively short pulls on the flats but pushed up the rises to put people in difficulty. I could tell who had trouble when the road pitched up as they were huffin' and puffin', pedaling squares, jumping out of the saddle and/or shifting to their small chainring. There were a few guys who were not having trouble and I knew early on that they would be the ones to watch for at the finish. Somewhere along the first lap I realized that I was in a good situation and could win the race if I played my cards right.
Three interesting things happened in the second lap. First, we popped 3 riders going up the "climb". Second, we picked up #245. Third, we were neutralized by the Masters 1/2/3 field when they came by. The moto official that told us that we were going to be neutralized recognized that #245 was from the first field and told him that he could ride with us but he had to pull off before the finish. After we were neutralized, we started to catch the masters again but eventually they picked up their pace and we lost sight of them. I spent more time this lap testing people for weaknesses. Of course up the rollers but also took some hard pulls on the flats to see if anybody was just hanging on by a thread. The result was that there were several people that seemed ripe to be popped if pushed hard enough. It was on the second lap that I knew I could win.
The third lap was about trying to whittle the field down. Another guy and I hit the hill hard to try to pop some people, but although they were clearly just hanging on, it wasn't long enough to do sufficient damage, and we weren't willing to dig deep enough to force the issue. About 1/3 of the lap in, one guy we were calling "socks" (because he had stylin' knee-high argyle socks) rolled off the front and I covered him. He started to form a bit of a gap and I attacked. I got a good bit up the road and went into TT mode holding at a bridgeable distance off the front. I was hoping that somebody would come across but nobody did. After a few minutes of that I decided there was no point in burning myself out, eased up and fell back to the field. About 2/3 of the way in, I tried a few times to get something going again but either nobody would go with me or we would get swallowed up quickly. On the third lap, depsite not being able to get a break going, I knew I should win.
Approaching town it was clear nothing was going to stick so I stopped trying, instead conserving energy for the inevitable sprint finish. Coming through town I wanted to be near the front but up to this point I had shown a little too much of my hand and I was marked by everyone, and they pretty much kept me in front. It was a game of cat and mouse all through town, swerving all over the road, looking back, etc. We were even going pretty slow. I figured If I was going to be in the front, it was going to be on my terms. A few times someone would made a move and I would sit on their wheel. Going into the feed zone at the start of the climb, I ramped up my effort past LT and pushed hard toward the turn to the finish. I wanted to be second wheel going into the turn and ended up neck-and-neck on the inside of socks. As soon as I hit the corner I was out of the saddle and hit full afterburned to the line. I could tell that nobody was near me as I approached so I looked back and considered a victory salute. I thought better of it and crossed the line with both hands on my bars, but "punched the air" immediately after and held up both hands in victory after I passed the gathered crowd.
Everybody congratulated me. Socks got second and the guy I tried to form a break with a few times and worked with to pop people on the hill got third. They told me later that I was the strongest in the race and it was all they could do to stay on my wheel through the feed zone, by the time the sprint came they had nothing left. I won by a very convincing margin.
umd
08-23-08, 07:17 PM
It's too bad VP split the 4s field into two groups when we only had 2 riders over the 65 rider limit. The 4(a) group had 40 riders and the 4(b) group had 27 riders.
The whole situation was f'd up. I think that they weren't even over the limit. They SOLD 67 places but I'll bet there were a lot of noshows. If they counted we probably would have been under the limit. Anyway, there were 11 guys in the 4B field. Numerically, there should have been 27, so there were either 16 guys that were in the wrong field, didn't show up, or some combination thereof. Well, I know there was at least one guy in the wrong field...
Regardless, I don't think that the smaller field takes away from my victory. If anything it was a harder race than the 4A. At least harder fought. There was no hiding in the pack and there were a lot less people to share the work.
Here (http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/6585904) is the data. It took us a few minutes more to do the 70 miles than the 4A group, which is to be expected considering our field was 1/4 the size.
The whole situation was f'd up. I think that they weren't even over the limit. They SOLD 67 places but I'll bet there were a lot of noshows. If they counted we probably would have been under the limit. Anyway, there were 11 guys in the 4B field. Numerically, there should have been 27, so there were either 16 guys that were in the wrong field, didn't show up, or some combination thereof. Well, I know there was at least one guy in the wrong field...
Regardless, I don't think that the smaller field takes away from my victory. If anything it was a harder race than the 4A. At least harder fought. There was no hiding in the pack and there were a lot less people to share the work.
Here (http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/6585904) is the data. It took us a few minutes more to do the 70 miles than the 4A group, which is to be expected considering our field was 1/4 the size.
umd
08-23-08, 07:20 PM
Oh yeah, does this mean you guys are going to upgrade to 3 for next year and give us pack fodder a chance? (Actually, I have a long way to go no matter what)
All my teammates are gone. Chester is a 3. Seth was a 3 but got second today and is going to upgrade after University (that means he is going to do Everest as a 2). I'll upgrade when I can. I expect to get a few points out of Everest, but I may upgrade on experience when I have enough races, especially now that I have at least won a race.
All my teammates are gone. Chester is a 3. Seth was a 3 but got second today and is going to upgrade after University (that means he is going to do Everest as a 2). I'll upgrade when I can. I expect to get a few points out of Everest, but I may upgrade on experience when I have enough races, especially now that I have at least won a race.
Chucklehead
08-23-08, 07:25 PM
Still an outstanding job. You've got yourself a win and I bet a big boost of confidence to go along with it:thumb:
umd
08-23-08, 07:32 PM
I just looked it up, a win in a field of 11-20 is 7 points :D
jmechy
08-23-08, 07:36 PM
Well earned, congrats again.
umd
08-23-08, 07:38 PM
Well earned, congrats again.
Thanks, and that sucks what the moto ref did to you when your race got neutralized.
Thanks, and that sucks what the moto ref did to you when your race got neutralized.
mooseracer
08-23-08, 07:39 PM
Hi Chucklehead. I wasn't trying to cheapen umd's win. A win's a win. I was just venting about VP not letting us race as one group. It seemed pointless considering that there was bound to be a least a couple DNPs due to flats.
umd
08-23-08, 07:40 PM
That purple and pink shirt is quite possibly the ugliest thing I have ever seen. But I crashed and am bitter. Congrats!
What race were you in? I heard from Cody of a crash of a few riders in the P/1/2 race but other than that I hadn't heard of anything...
What race were you in? I heard from Cody of a crash of a few riders in the P/1/2 race but other than that I hadn't heard of anything...
umd
08-23-08, 07:41 PM
Hi Chucklehead. I wasn't trying to cheapen umd's win. A win's a win. I was just venting about VP not letting us race as one group. It seemed pointless considering that there was bound to be a least a couple DNPs due to flats.
I don't think it was VP's call, it was the officials. A similar thing happened at Sisquoc last year when the 5s were oversold. I think the 5B race was less than 10 people. Were you in the A's or the B's?
I don't think it was VP's call, it was the officials. A similar thing happened at Sisquoc last year when the 5s were oversold. I think the 5B race was less than 10 people. Were you in the A's or the B's?
jmechy
08-23-08, 07:47 PM
Thanks, and that sucks what the moto ref did to you when your race got neutralized.
Velopromo seemed to drop the ball in numerous ways today, I'm glad that they only do norcal races.
Velopromo seemed to drop the ball in numerous ways today, I'm glad that they only do norcal races.
daytonian
08-23-08, 08:07 PM
good job umd. first win?
umd
08-23-08, 08:08 PM
good job umd. first win?
yes
yes
mooseracer
08-23-08, 08:23 PM
I was in group A. I did win, but didn't do any work the entire race. I moved up through the field with 5K to go, then took off under the overpass. Sitting at the back and coming to the front at the end is the only game I have. I don't have enough fitness to be active at the front and place well.
You definitely earned your victory. Good job!
You definitely earned your victory. Good job!
umd
08-23-08, 08:36 PM
I was in group A. I did win, but didn't do any work the entire race. I moved up through the field with 5K to go, then took off under the overpass. Sitting at the back and coming to the front at the end is the only game I have. I don't have enough fitness to be active at the front and place well.
That is certainly a valid tactic. :thumb:
You definitely earned your victory. Good job!
Thanks. :beer:
That is certainly a valid tactic. :thumb:
You definitely earned your victory. Good job!
Thanks. :beer:
pelikan
08-23-08, 09:57 PM
Congrats on the wins! VP's logic to not add in the two riders was lame.
I got a top 15, not bad for my first road race in a year. Good times, though lots of driving.
btw, Argyle Socks was from SJBC - Maurice? Fellow trackie.
I got a top 15, not bad for my first road race in a year. Good times, though lots of driving.
btw, Argyle Socks was from SJBC - Maurice? Fellow trackie.
redal
08-24-08, 01:22 AM
I was asking mooseracer, who seems a little bitter about umd winning.
And dude.. I'm fat. I'd barely keep up with the 4/5's right now. I'm gonna TRY to hang in with the 3's, but I'm carpooling and the dude who's driving won't want to stick around for the P123. If this was a month ago, I'd jump right in, but I've really fallen off since the last Ontario.
Yeah, I read that wrong. I'll still probably see you since I should be there during the 3s race.
And dude.. I'm fat. I'd barely keep up with the 4/5's right now. I'm gonna TRY to hang in with the 3's, but I'm carpooling and the dude who's driving won't want to stick around for the P123. If this was a month ago, I'd jump right in, but I've really fallen off since the last Ontario.
Yeah, I read that wrong. I'll still probably see you since I should be there during the 3s race.
Red Rider
08-24-08, 02:10 AM
It's too bad VP split the 4s field into two groups when we only had 2 riders over the 65 rider limit. The 4(a) group had 40 riders and the 4(b) group had 27 riders.
VP is weird.
VP is weird.
umd
08-24-08, 03:01 AM
Congrats on the wins! VP's logic to not add in the two riders was lame.
I got a top 15, not bad for my first road race in a year. Good times, though lots of driving.
btw, Argyle Socks was from SJBC - Maurice? Fellow trackie.
Round trip: 4:00-4:15 (12.25 hours)
=========================
driving up: 4:00-6:15 (2.25 hours)
waiting fo registration, warmup: 6:15-8:20 (2 hrs)
race: 8:20-11:30 (3 hrs)
waiting for results: 11:30-12:30 (1 hr)
driving to lunch: 12:30-1:00 (30 min)
lunch: 1:00-2:00 (1 hr)
driving home: 2:00-4:15 (2.25 hours)
I got a top 15, not bad for my first road race in a year. Good times, though lots of driving.
btw, Argyle Socks was from SJBC - Maurice? Fellow trackie.
Round trip: 4:00-4:15 (12.25 hours)
=========================
driving up: 4:00-6:15 (2.25 hours)
waiting fo registration, warmup: 6:15-8:20 (2 hrs)
race: 8:20-11:30 (3 hrs)
waiting for results: 11:30-12:30 (1 hr)
driving to lunch: 12:30-1:00 (30 min)
lunch: 1:00-2:00 (1 hr)
driving home: 2:00-4:15 (2.25 hours)
Racer Ex
08-24-08, 05:04 AM
Regardless, I don't think that the smaller field takes away from my victory. If anything it was a harder race than the 4A. At least harder fought. There was no hiding in the pack and there were a lot less people to share the work.
It doesn't. You were essentially in an 11 man break. Now you know what it feels like.
And hey guys, cut Robert some slack. Smaller Cat 4 fields are never a bad idea for safety and competition's sake.
As I once told a teammate who was dissecting all the things he could have done better in his win:
"You DO realize you WON, right?"
ENJOY the heck out of it. The next one might be in your next race. Or never.
That purple and pink shirt is quite possibly the ugliest thing I have ever seen. But I crashed...
It can't be worse than the bright orange shirt I got from Esparto.
Congrats UMD!
It doesn't. You were essentially in an 11 man break. Now you know what it feels like.
And hey guys, cut Robert some slack. Smaller Cat 4 fields are never a bad idea for safety and competition's sake.
As I once told a teammate who was dissecting all the things he could have done better in his win:
"You DO realize you WON, right?"
ENJOY the heck out of it. The next one might be in your next race. Or never.
That purple and pink shirt is quite possibly the ugliest thing I have ever seen. But I crashed...
It can't be worse than the bright orange shirt I got from Esparto.
Congrats UMD!
tbrown524
08-24-08, 06:59 AM
Congrats. Now get out of Cat 4 and give the rest of us a chance to win.
pelikan
08-24-08, 08:12 AM
Round trip: 4:00-4:15 (12.25 hours)
=========================
driving up: 4:00-6:15 (2.25 hours)
waiting fo registration, warmup: 6:15-8:20 (2 hrs)
race: 8:20-11:30 (3 hrs)
waiting for results: 11:30-12:30 (1 hr)
driving to lunch: 12:30-1:00 (30 min)
lunch: 1:00-2:00 (1 hr)
driving home: 2:00-4:15 (2.25 hours)
You still beat me home. I got home at 5pm, had to unload, devoir whatever food I had, shower then have a 1 hour conf call for work...then I had to work!!!
=========================
driving up: 4:00-6:15 (2.25 hours)
waiting fo registration, warmup: 6:15-8:20 (2 hrs)
race: 8:20-11:30 (3 hrs)
waiting for results: 11:30-12:30 (1 hr)
driving to lunch: 12:30-1:00 (30 min)
lunch: 1:00-2:00 (1 hr)
driving home: 2:00-4:15 (2.25 hours)
You still beat me home. I got home at 5pm, had to unload, devoir whatever food I had, shower then have a 1 hour conf call for work...then I had to work!!!
waterrockets
08-24-08, 09:08 AM
Again, nice work umd. You really raced an intentional race and animated it. Congrats!
DannoXYZ
08-24-08, 11:05 AM
Hey congrats on the good job! :) :thumb::beer::cheers:
Nachoman
08-24-08, 07:14 PM
Ditto. Congrats!
umd
08-25-08, 06:48 AM
ENJOY the heck out of it. The next one might be in your next race. Or never.
Thanks everyone. I am enjoying basking in the victory for now. I got a lot of congrats from teammates and friends who heard about it through the grapevine on the training ride yesterday. One of the winners of another category (Masters Cat 5 I think) was also there and we compared notes. Hopefully it is one of many more to come but unfortunately the season is winding down. I have to consider balancing how far I want to drive to get a few more races in against disrupting the last few weeks of training for Everest Challenge. :notamused:
Thanks everyone. I am enjoying basking in the victory for now. I got a lot of congrats from teammates and friends who heard about it through the grapevine on the training ride yesterday. One of the winners of another category (Masters Cat 5 I think) was also there and we compared notes. Hopefully it is one of many more to come but unfortunately the season is winding down. I have to consider balancing how far I want to drive to get a few more races in against disrupting the last few weeks of training for Everest Challenge. :notamused:
MDcatV
08-25-08, 07:53 AM
very nice. congrats on the win and definitely enjoy it. a secret that you'd never know from reading the BF road bike racing forum ... most racers have never won a race. you no longer have that distinction.:)
cmh
08-25-08, 10:41 AM
Very nice win UMD. Thanks for the race report.
umd
08-29-08, 02:39 PM
From today's paper :D
http://www.photoscene.com/kimandsteve/images/3493.jpg
http://www.photoscene.com/kimandsteve/images/3493.jpg
jmechy
08-29-08, 04:07 PM
lol, there is a cycling section in the paper? which one?