Touring - has anyone actually had their frame break and then welded while on tour?

Just to reopen the aluminium vs steel frame yet again...

One of the pro-steel arguaments is that if your frame breaks while on tour, you can get it welded pretty easily....................but I'm not entirely sure if thats true (welding a broken bike back together is a bit more complicated than they make out) and I've yet to come across someone mentioning that they've done it themselves.

So, oh experienced and bike abusing masses, has anyone ever actually had it done and survived to tell the tale?

Never on tour but I've replaced dropouts on bikes before and I have snapped a frame before and had it re-welded. It is pretty easy.

Also remember aluminums fatigue rate compared to steel when doing he old alu vs steel thing.

Yes, my steel-frame broke while on tour and was quickly fixed, details here: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=3Tzut&page_id=44266&v=3o

No, but I have had the unfortunate pleasure of a steel triangle separating from an alu downtube (chemically bonded originally) when I used an old Raleigh Technium for touring. I can't recommend Techniums for this reason.

I know there was one other person on these boards did mention they had a rack mount re-welded -but I'm also of the mind that given the cost and time involved in re-welding (e.g. finding a good welder, paying for a good paint job) I'd not have any problem using an alu frame as probably the costs are going to be very similar unless you have a really boutique frame. I know this isn't necessarily true either, but I'd also have a problem riding a bike knowing it had to be rewelded as well.

I'd also be interested about people's experiences with having to have frames rewelded as well.

In Laos and again in Vietnam.

http://www.vwvagabonds.com/Bike/images/BrokenBikeWelding6.JPG

http://www.vwvagabonds.com/Bike/images/BrokenBikeWelding7.JPG

My aluminum frame cracked but was not welded:
http://www.mvermeulen.com/oneyear/Photos/gallery/gallery4/457.htm

The crack went ~3/4 way around the chain stay. I flew home from Australia, picked up a replacement bike, flew back and continued my circumnavigation.

Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly's book "Off the Rails" described their bicycle trip across Russia in 2001/2002. In that book, they describe having one of the bike frames fail and get welded again.

Ideally you want a frame that won't break, which is an advantage for steel. And repair is also an advantage.

I think a person could possibly splint an alloy frame with stuff from wood to carbon fiber and a small epoxy kit. It is the drops on Al bikes that worry me, the smaller parts are the less chance there is of repair.

The crack went ~3/4 way around the chain stay. I flew home from Australia, picked up a replacement bike, flew back and continued my circumnavigation.



Wouldn't it have been cheaper easier and quicker to buy a bike in Australia? Australia isn't exactly the third world. I'm sure there are plenty of places that would sell you whatever you wanted unless you are very particular and insist on a specific custom builder.

Wouldn't it have been cheaper easier and quicker to buy a bike in Australia? Australia isn't exactly the third world. I'm sure there are plenty of places that would sell you whatever you wanted unless you are very particular and insist on a specific custom builder.

In Melbourne
Surly LHT ~$1600
Cannondale T800 $2200
Fuji or Allegro $1500 (no longer avail. as Fuji)
Vivente Touring $1800 (inc. racks and dynohub and lights!)

Still cheaper than flying back.

I just carry a tube of Mighty Putty with me on tour and then I can fix steel, aluminum or even plastic bikes.

I just carry a tube of Mighty Putty with me on tour and then I can fix steel, aluminum or even plastic bikes.

This is a fantastic idea! So simple but I probably would have never thought of it. It could also be used to fix broken racks, fenders, handlebar bg brackets, water bottle cages or whatever.

[QUOTE=Losligato;7333082]In Laos and again in Vietnam.

http://www.vwvagabonds.com/Bike/images/BrokenBikeWelding6.JPG



I wouldn't trust any welds made by that guy in this picture. He's 'stick' welding and wearing no helmet. He'll be lucky to get any weld metal where it belongs. He sees only a bright light . . . or he's already blind.

DON

If I was going to try to fix a steel frame, I'd want to be in SE Asia. There are lots of cheap welders there. Here in the USA.....frankly I bet you'd be screwed. Welders/frame builders aren't cheap and it would likely be weeks before thay got around to doing it.

A Surly frame costs $420 new-- it would hard to repair a frame for that.

Wouldn't it have been cheaper easier and quicker to buy a bike in Australia?

At the time I was told there was a model switch and it would be multiple weeks to get another Cannondale frame my size in Australia. The crack happened near Shark Bay ~600km north of Perth. I cycled 280km with duct tape to first bike shop in Geraldton. Certainly not anything my size in Geraldton. Perhaps I would find something if I went through enough shops in Perth but I'm not convinced quicker would have applied since the flight needed only a few overnights before return. Air fare also wasn't particularly expensive and I was picking up an existing touring bike I already had.

I wouldn't trust any welds made by that guy in this picture. He's 'stick' welding and wearing no helmet. He'll be lucky to get any weld metal where it belongs. He sees only a bright light . . . or he's already blind.
DON

Yeah, you're right. That weld broke after a few hundred miles. It was welded again in Danang by a guy who was repairing a carnival toy. He refused to take any payment. The weld is still holding.

The problem with aluminum is not that it can't be welded, it's that the weld needs to heat treated to work back again. To me the argument in favor of steel is that it's comfy.

I've had a crack in the down tube of steel frame welded just the day before I left on a month long tour - it was the only alternative to buying a new bike, and it worked just fine, holding for the tour and getting me home, where I had the whole tube replaced by Andy Gilmour in Tucson.

As for the relative ease of repair in the steel vs. aluminum debate, there's no doubt you can get steel welded easier. However, you can use Magic Putty or, my favorite, JB Weld, to stick together most anything...for a while. Given a choice, I'd go with steel, but I'd ride most anything if I had the time and the opportunity to tour. The point is to go, and for inspiration I offer this link:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1169972883721&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout

Here's the first line from the story: "Seeking the greatest spiritual experience in a Muslim's life, a 63-year-old Chechen criss-crossed 13 countries on his rusting bicycle to join nearly three million Muslims from across the world in performing hajj."

Since his bike was rusting, I'd presume it was steel.

Just to reopen the aluminium vs steel frame yet again...

One of the pro-steel arguaments is that if your frame breaks while on tour, you can get it welded pretty easily....................but I'm not entirely sure if thats true (welding a broken bike back together is a bit more complicated than they make out) and I've yet to come across someone mentioning that they've done it themselves.

So, oh experienced and bike abusing masses, has anyone ever actually had it done and survived to tell the tale?

Actually, yes! This happened to us just a few weeks ago in Cambodia. We found a great welder who did a fantastic job on Andrew's frame. Here are the before and after pictures. Total repair cost just $25!

http://travellingtwo.com/gallery2/d/26325-2/dsc08098.jpg
http://travellingtwo.com/gallery2/d/26328-5/dsc08101.jpg

has anyone ever actually had it done and survived to tell the tale?

Herman Veldhuizen's trip from Norway to Nepal had his frame break three times:

First time it broke in Ukraine and was welded: http://www.hermanveldhuizen.com/wp/?p=141

This weld lasted until a little past the Kazakhstan border where Herman's trip report says, "Also my frame breaks again at the same place as before. It is my own made enforcement of the rear triangle which keeps the frame together." : http://www.hermanveldhuizen.com/wp/?p=145

He continues further through Kazakhstan when "My back wheel swings from left to right. I get off my bike and I see that my rear triangle is now broken on both! sides.": http://www.hermanveldhuizen.com/wp/?p=146

At that point he gets a replacement bicycle shipped to him to complete the rest of the trip.

The late Sheldon Brown had a great story about a frame that failed on tour:http://sheldonbrown.org/images/moulton-deluxe.jpg
Read the whole story (http://sheldonbrown.org/moulton-deluxe.html), he was a great writer.

"I wouldn't trust any welds made by that guy in this picture. He's 'stick' welding and wearing no helmet. He'll be lucky to get any weld metal where it belongs. He sees only a bright light . . . or he's already blind."

It isn't as simple as that. I did ask myself what he was doing, and we now know the fate of the weld... Still, there isn't anything wrong with stick welds, better than MIG in a lot of cases and a lot of frames are migged. Neither process lets you adjust the heat and the filler feed on the fly, so they have their problems. But if you want a guy with the wrong welder to tack you back together, it is unlikely he is going to run an endless bead because the heat will get to be too much for the frame. The best he can do is what would amount to some tacks, and you don't see much when that is happening anywhat. You can't see what is happening with the hood down and the rod unstruct, and by the time you can see it you probably need to stop. I have a self darkening helmet so at least it is convenient, but I start it up with my eyes closed in case it isn't charged at first and because 1/25 000 of a second still seems like too much particularly if I am starting and stopping.

Brad over at Atomic Zombie does all his wild bikes with a 3/32" rod on a DC stick welder. Mostly he isn't working with Chromo, but I wouldn't bet against him if he was.


"I just carry a tube of Mighty Putty with me on tour and then I can fix steel, aluminum or even plastic bikes."

I wouldn't bet against you either, but one can't reglue steel bikes, even with lugs. Epoxy could be mighty useful for splinting. Look at how those bamboo bikes are glued together with hemp twine. But the glue is fluid and good quality.

"
"I just carry a tube of Mighty Putty with me on tour and then I can fix steel, aluminum or even plastic bikes."

I wouldn't bet against you either, but one can't reglue steel bikes, even with lugs. Epoxy could be mighty useful for splinting. Look at how those bamboo bikes are glued together with hemp twine. But the glue is fluid and good quality.

I do hope most realize that I was being facetious to some degree. I didn't mean the epoxy was meant to be a permanent fix but we have used it to temporarily mend a problem so as not to ruin a tour. Oh and you're right Spinnaker, we once used it to repair a broken rear rack which saved the day out in the middle of nowhere.

[QUOTE=Losligato;7333082]In Laos and again in Vietnam.

http://www.vwvagabonds.com/Bike/images/BrokenBikeWelding6.JPG



I wouldn't trust any welds made by that guy in this picture. He's 'stick' welding and wearing no helmet. He'll be lucky to get any weld metal where it belongs. He sees only a bright light . . . or he's already blind.

DON

That's why I've always thought that the argument of 'oh, well a steel frame can be welded by anybody anywhere, pretty much' didn't hold water. some two-bit operation isn't going to do any long-term job on your frame, and when you find someone with proper equipment and knowledge, chances are they can repair your aluminum frames. A friend of mine, a military engineer, was on a tour in Australia, and repaired his and his wife's aluminum mountain bike frames several times. (when he had access to equipment, of course)

[QUOTE=Losligato;7333082]In Laos and again in Vietnam.

http://www.vwvagabonds.com/Bike/images/BrokenBikeWelding6.JPG



I wouldn't trust any welds made by that guy in this picture. He's 'stick' welding and wearing no helmet. He'll be lucky to get any weld metal where it belongs. He sees only a bright light . . . or he's already blind.

DON

One of the best bike frame welders ever didn't wear a helmet on most occasions. He worked at a little place called Proteus.

Also, what the **** are you supposed to do in Laos? You can't really be picky.

[QUOTE=dwood;7335629]

That's why I've always thought that the argument of 'oh, well a steel frame can be welded by anybody anywhere, pretty much' didn't hold water. some two-bit operation isn't going to do any long-term job on your frame, and when you find someone with proper equipment and knowledge, chances are they can repair your aluminum frames. A friend of mine, a military engineer, was on a tour in Australia, and repaired his and his wife's aluminum mountain bike frames several times. (when he had access to equipment, of course)


My original criticism of the 1st picture was not that he was "stick welding", but that he was wearing no helmet and therefore could not see what he was doing. Having said that, the best way to repair any [weldable] bike frame is by TIG welding.

The odds of finding a TIG weldor in the outback are probably pretty slim. To get going again after a frame break . . . you'll probably have to settle for stick or MIG welding which if done right can be a very good repair.

As for aluminum frames . . . yeah they can be welded, but as another poster pointed out, that is not the problem. The problem is that your aluminum frame that was originally in the equivalent of T6 heat treated condition, will now be "T-zero" in the heat-affected zone both sides of the weld. Dead soft.

As for JB Weld and similar products: as someone who has had to remove that crap prior to welding, after some homeowner has smeared it all over in a futile attempt to repair something, I absolutely despise the stuff. It has its place . . . but not as a substitute for welding metals. 30+ years owner of a welding and machine shop.

DON

I know nothing about welding (other than the many UV keratitis I treat when guys won't use their hood) but for those in the know, what about this stuff for aluminum repair? Seems a propane torch would be easy to find anywhere in the world. If it works, it might add to the steel vs. aluminum debate?
http://www.aluminumrepair.com/

I know nothing about welding (other than the many UV keratitis I treat when guys won't use their hood) but for those in the know, what about this stuff for aluminum repair? Seems a propane torch would be easy to find anywhere in the world. If it works, it seems it would swing the steel vs. aluminum debate the other way?
http://www.aluminumrepair.com/

Aluminum brazing alloys have been around for many years . . . and some actually work fairly well. But that doesn't eliminate the problem of losing the heat-treatment of the aluminum due to the heat. The weld area and several inches on either side will be dead soft.

DON

Don, I agree - no shield, no sight. I teach welding to high schoolers, so I am hypersensitive to protecting the eyes from not only physical damage but the IR and UV as well.
I would not take on an aluminum repair without either a TIG machine or a MIG machine with aluminum wire. Steel? probably TIG as well.

My steel frame broke on tour. The seatstay cracked all the way through right at the seat cluster. I considered finding a welder to repair it, but found that a combination of parachute chord and hose clamps provided an adequate splint to get me home -- another 250 miles.

Once I was home, I was able to weld and braze the frame for a very satisfactory repair. I'm just an amatuer/hobbyist welder, so if I can do it, then any professional welder should be able to easily. People sometimes say that welders aren't familiar with thin tubing, as if all they've ever done is weld angle iron. Welders do all kinds of metal work including auto body repair, which involves pretty thin metal. For that matter, an auto body shop should be able to fix a steel bike frame as well.

If repairability is at all a concern, go with steel for sure.

As for JB Weld and similar products: as someone who has had to remove that crap prior to welding, after some homeowner has smeared it all over in a futile attempt to repair something, I absolutely despise the stuff. It has its place . . . but not as a substitute for welding metals. 30+ years owner of a welding and machine shop.

DON

Dear Don,

I sympathize with your dread of cleaning up JB Weld before you can lay a proper weld, but we're talking about how to fix a frame when you're on the road in, say, Djibouti. With regard to this forum, steel is easier to weld, and that's the whole point. As for JB weld, my 1968 Jeep keeps chugging along with more than one JB Bandage. Besides, it's been around for decades, and I love the way the package never changes, with the same testimonials: "A Kansas farmer said: 'I have used JB Weld for more than five years on my farm equipment and I have decided that it is even better than bailing wire."

Which reminds me: I always bring a bit of bailing wire and duct tape on my tours. Which further reminds me: a good way to keep your bike from falling apart is to check the rack mounts, etc, each day. As soon as a nut loosens up, trouble follows.

I've never had my whole frame break - as in fall apart in two pieces. If t hat ever happened, I wouldn't even try to get it welded back together - I would cash it in on the guarantee and get a new one.

But - I did have a small little braze-on that was essential break off in India while l oading the bike onto the bus one time. It was the little thingie that holds the rear brake cable in place. needless to say, if I couldn't have gotten it welded back on in the little Indian town I happened to be in, the trip would have been over.

I'm sold on steel for travel in third world countries - alumiinum is just too difficult to fix.

Don, I agree - no shield, no sight.

Very common is asia. Watched some blokes welding a gate in china a few years back. I think they close their eyes.

"Very common is asia. Watched some blokes welding a gate in china a few years back. I think they close their eyes."

They must have been watching American Chopper.

Here is a link to some heroic roadside welding:

http://www.antipodes-expeditions.com/Gallery/gallery/canada/DSCN5980

I haven't ever had a frame or rack break, but I tend to be a bit zealous when figuring out a safety factor for my gear. I generally over spec and under load my bikes so having to worry about dealing with a broken bike isn't as likely.

When I was in college, I backpacked the entire Long Trail across Vermont. The first week, the aluminum frame in my backpack cracked -- probably because I was carrying too much weight. We hitchhiked down to the nearest town, and I was able to get the aluminum backpack frame welded for about $10-20. It held the rest of the trip -- about 6 weeks and hundreds of miles. I also got rid of some of the extra weight I was carrying during that first town stop.

MEV,
Reading your initial post about flying back for a new frame sparked a memory. I landed in Australia May 7, 01 and heard about someone flying back for a new frame. I don't think we crossed paths, did we? I was on a Bridgestone MB1. The Bush Telegraph really works.
Paul

Paul,

When cycling the perimeter of OZ, I definitely kept in touch with several others via bush telegraph. It was particularly interesting in the north.

I don't specifically remember you, but it sounds like we were there very close to same time. I landed in Sydney on 2 May 2001 and cycled counter-clockwise. I was in Shark Bay on August 16th when I noticed the cracked frame: http://www.mvermeulen.com/oneyear/Journal/august11.htm

I then cycled to Geraldton and on August 23rd flew from Perth to San Francisco returning August 30th. If I had been two weeks later, travel would have been much more obnoxious with both 9/11 aftermath and then Ansett Airlines collapse.