Road Bike Racing - Page Valley

Anyone else make it out to this race? It was quite an experience. The course was absolutely beautiful, and extremely challenging. There were two very tough climbs, one of which was extra steep. It was very hot for my race too. I got semi-dropped on the first climb, and definitely put out of contention on the steep one. I, and many others, eventually got pulled a lap early. That was a relief for many of the riders. The Cat 4 field, originally of 70 riders, finished with a straggly group of about 15, so I'm pretty pleased to have actually finished the race!

Finished the race talking to our local resident moto expert. Wanted to attack the second to last climb but Coppi was blocking the front from white line to yellow line and the moto was sitting right next to me. Some sketchy riding out of the last hard left turn and a couple guys overcooked. I "bailed" on the attack to the finish when my wheel got cut off twice on the short power climb.

I was talking to a guy earlier that said "I've never lost a race to the yellow line rule." Well.. it certainly didn't help me today, but all in all pretty happy with the final results.

Oh yeah... compared to the other dozen or so finishers I'm about 4 inches too tall and 20 lbs too heavy!

I might add, my tactical mistake wasn't around the centerline rule. It was planning on the pack getting strung out on the climb providing room. I wasn't positioned to attack when Coppi got on the front and drew the pace way back and we were clobbered line to line. The previous times up that longer climb we strung out a bit and provided room on either side to move. The last time, no chance.

Oh well, it was indeed a beautiful race. Very well run. Well officiated by the moto's and the offending yellow liners when they tried to make progress in the opposing lane.

This will be on the calendar for next year once and/or twice if it's run both times again.

If a team resorts to such bush league tactics, you are well within your rights to physically remove them from their location within the field.

Really.

A simple hand to the hip/rear end will make many a squirrelly Cat4 think twice about what he's doing, and he'll probably cease and desist.

I was in that Cat 4 race and was mixing it up on the front from mile 2 to 42. Finished 6th.

Reality check time: For those who are imagining Squadra Coppi being a team of brutes taking up the whole front, that's simply not true. They only had TWO guys working the front. TWO. I could name both of them. Y'all gotta find something else to blame your inability to move up on.

'Twas a fantastic race.

Anyone else make it out to this race? It was quite an experience. The course was absolutely beautiful, and extremely challenging. There were two very tough climbs, one of which was extra steep. It was very hot for my race too. I got semi-dropped on the first climb, and definitely put out of contention on the steep one. I, and many others, eventually got pulled a lap early. That was a relief for many of the riders. The Cat 4 field, originally of 70 riders, finished with a straggly group of about 15, so I'm pretty pleased to have actually finished the race!

Contradictory, no?

Not trying to be an ass, just wondering what you meant to say.

Finished the race talking to our local resident moto expert. Wanted to attack the second to last climb but Coppi was blocking the front from white line to yellow line and the moto was sitting right next to me. Some sketchy riding out of the last hard left turn and a couple guys overcooked. I "bailed" on the attack to the finish when my wheel got cut off twice on the short power climb.

I was talking to a guy earlier that said "I've never lost a race to the yellow line rule." Well.. it certainly didn't help me today, but all in all pretty happy with the final results.

Oh yeah... compared to the other dozen or so finishers I'm about 4 inches too tall and 20 lbs too heavy!

That was a great event. They're gonna have to find someone to take my place on the moto next year, cause I wanna race it.

That guy lost his race because of the course not the centerline (not always 'yellow") line rule. Especially when 2/3 of the field was gone by the final lap. It was all explained by the CR at the begining before the race. One guy I relegated on a stretch of Farmview Rd said he didnt know about the rule. I told him that the CR spelled it out at pre-race instructions. On the Cat 4 race, given the field size, at the start I gave a bit a lattitude with that on the hills since there were waaay too many riders. The first guy I relegated knew he done wrong. And by the end of the climb he worked his way from the very back to the very front the right way, so it's all about skill. Fortunately gravity did its job and it became less of a problem buy 1/2 race distance. FWIW the 2 guys I did relegate both finished in the final group. The guy I relegated on Farmview I think was top 10 and the guy I relegated on the climb was one of the guys who overcooked the last turn and put it into the weeds. So they really cant blame a relegation that happened 20+ miles from the end of the race on for the centerline line rule for a reason not to win.

One race instruction that i'd like to see (and one I have given at Greenbelt) given on these hilly races is that if you know your gonna be a slow climber, keep to the right side of the road so the faster guys dont get stuck behind you. It's just one of those thing where the ego needs to be checked at the foot of the climb and big guys like me need to do the right thing. Fat guys to the right, skinny whippet guys to the left.

You'd never hear that from the 123 guys. In fact I didnt. The only relegations on races I worked came in the Cat 4 and the Cat 5 races.

I will say that as a racer too, I see your point of view and I when the officals get to gether to pow wow about these things after a race, I do try to fight for your POV, since I know exactly why stuff happens.

But at the same time, the rule is there for your safety since the roads are open to traffic. I for one was suprised at the number of cars comming DOWN the hills towards the fields in all the races.

Tom, I was surpised to see you there as I thought you had upgraded.

I agree about the sketchy riding in the 4 field. I thought for sure guys were gonna just fall over from going to slow on the last trip up the first hill. Me and the lead motor were taking bets to see if someone was gonna drop a chain every lap in the exact same spot on the climb where it goes from big ring to small ring. When it happened on lap 1 and lap 2, it was amazing that no one fell, given how the field had checked up behind the guys who dropped thier chains and came to a dead stop. We were both glad that 1/2 the field was gone after the 1st lap. Heck, 20 riders were gone by half way up the first hill. Race management is much eaiser on a tight course with fewer riders. That only makes the last lap shennaigans all the more weirder. But, Coppi had the numbers to take control. Like it or not, thats racing.

Speaking of Coppi, They had a guy in the Cat 3 race who broke away on lap 4 and stayed away until the very end. He almost pulled off a most outstanding solo win, but he got caught at the feed zone and came in 2nd. I really felt bad for him. Buy hey, thats racing too.

OT - Did any of you guys who took RT 211 east home happen upon the accident on the down hill side after the exit for Skyline drive. Looked really nasty. Hooligan biker and ricers tangling or racing and one biker lost. The ambulances were gone by the time I happened upon it.

I was in that Cat 4 race and was mixing it up on the front from mile 2 to 42. Finished 6th.

Reality check time: For those who are imagining Squadra Coppi being a team of brutes taking up the whole front, that's simply not true. They only had TWO guys working the front. TWO. I could name both of them. Y'all gotta find something else to blame your inability to move up on.

'Twas a fantastic race.

Oh, I blame my inability for moving up on the fact I took the base of the hill too far back in the final lap. No doubt about that. Like I said, I expected us to stretch out a bit more and planned my positioning based on that. It was what it was.

But I can tell you (as can FatguyRacer, since we were going slow enough that I was comfortable talking on the climb) that by the time you got to me, I was riding the yellow line and moving up would have meant busting it 5 feet away from the moto that I'd seen relegate 2 other guys already.

We were very fortunate to have amazing weather for both of the inaugural page valley races this year. We were all really pleased by the turnout for this race and will undoubtedly see even more of MABRA out in Luray next year. I was up around 4 yesterday morning putting signage on the course and spent my day doing road guard duty as I did for the race on the 3rd, too. I was not complaining when I heard that the 4 race and the women's elite race were being cut short by a lap :)

I wish I could have seen the finishes of some of the races as I have ridden the course enough times (on a single speed) to know just how mean that last kilometer on Balkamore Hill Road is. A shame that Coppi got caught... he really deserved a win.

On of the best finishes in MABRA if you ask me. Right up there with Reston Town Center Crit for it's spectacle factor. Like something right out of the Tour. Some of us officials were chatting about it later. One thing we agreed on was it's unfortunate location relative to the festival. I bet the festival goers would have been impressed with the spectacle too. We also agreed that when we all get old we wanna retire to the area.

Next year - Oxygen bottles at the finish.

One race instruction that i'd like to see (and one I have given at Greenbelt) given on these hilly races is that if you know your gonna be a slow climber, keep to the right side of the road so the faster guys dont get stuck behind you. It's just one of those thing where the ego needs to be checked at the foot of the climb and big guys like me need to do the right thing. Fat guys to the right, skinny whippet guys to the left.

.

Yes, please do this!! I really wish we'd had such an instruction at Washington County, where I had some close calls with the centerline, as I zig-zagged near the rear of the group to keep it upright and under control as rows of people in front of me kept stalling on the steep parts and wouldn't get out of the way! If my fields were larger, I'd have no room to move laterally like that without risking swiping out someone's front wheel.

When I know I'm a weak climber in the group and if I can make it to the front leading into a climb (anticipating a drift backwards), I do try to move over and hug the white line to let the faster people come by me. Why isn't this a rule, especially on the narrow roads?

That's an excellent instruction. It would make hilly races a lot safer when the whole road isn't closed.

Yesterday was almost a comical display of getting popped on the first of the two climbs. Most of which occurred as the pack parted around the dropped chains that were inevitably in the middle of the pack - cepting the guy who pulled out to the left and just tipped over. Honestly, I don't mind so much the guys drifting down the middle. It usually leaves a hole to fill and slide into.

Other than the momentum loss guys behind the mechanicals, it didn't seem like people were doing too much drifting off the front for us.

Contradictory, no?

Not trying to be an ass, just wondering what you meant to say.

I don't think so. I finished when they told me to, and would have been fine with doing another lap. I don't view being pulled when out of contention in a road race as being DNF, and I think the officials placed everyone they pulled. It's not like those riders were lapped or a danger. Does that make sense? Part of it might be that I was determined to finish the race since I knew going in that I would not be in contention.

The dropped chains thing was pretty hair raising. Since there was no space to move up and I hid in the shade at the start, I was near the back and had to dodge all those guys. I avoided the issue myself by doing the whole of climb one in the 39. I think that is a better option, since you get much more control over you cadence and no one in 4 will be using anything bigger than 39-13 anyway.

p.s. I didn't hear a word of the ref's talk. I just assumed it was yellow line and stuck to it.

Getting pulled (even in a pull & place scenario) means something completely different than "finishing." Anyone can finish at the speed they require to complete a course, but that's what separates riding and racing. In my book, a racer doesn't finish if they didn't actually complete the full course mileage.

It's pretty simple to describe how one did in a race: finished, pulled, DNF. No one can finish and be pulled in the same race.

About that ref's pre-race rule talk -- not sure if that was FatguyRacer -- y'all gotta speak up! No one beyond 4 bikes back could hear that ref and we told him as much, but he didn't seem to care. It's not fair to make little effort to explain the rules then start enforcing them like they were blared over a PA system. Get a bullhorn or have someone with a real voice explain them. Especially when you're doing something like taking a lap out of a 4 lap race.

I was a bit surprised to see all the pulled riders placed on the results across all categories. Gotta agree that if you don't "finish" the race then you DNF. Seems like a rather intuitive conclusion. The posted results of that race certainly don't tell the whole story.

But that's the rule. Being pulled isn't a DNF. If you hang on long enough in a race where lots of people are being pulled for safety reasons or whatever, then you might make it on the results list. It's because being pulled is different than abandoning because of some problem or because you just gave up. You would have presumably trudged along to the finish eventually (also presumably in that position relative to the others) had it not been for the officials.

I disagree with both of you. Just because a rider finishes outside the main group in a professional race - be it the TDF or any one-day race, doesn't mean they DNF... it just means they finished in a non-contentious group.

With amateur racing, if an official pulls you it's usually because you're a headache to keep track of, not because you can't finish the race. Which means you should still get placed.

But that's the rule. Being pulled isn't a DNF. If you hang on long enough in a race where lots of people are being pulled for safety reasons or whatever, then you might make it on the results list. It's because being pulled is different than abandoning because of some problem or because you just gave up. You would have presumably trudged along to the finish eventually (also presumably in that position relative to the others) had it not been for the officials.

+1, that's what I was trying to say but put more eloquently.

^you guys are doing some serious hair splitting

Getting pulled (even in a pull & place scenario) means something completely different than "finishing." Anyone can finish at the speed they require to complete a course, but that's what separates riding and racing. In my book, a racer doesn't finish if they didn't actually complete the full course mileage.

It's pretty simple to describe how one did in a race: finished, pulled, DNF. No one can finish and be pulled in the same race.

About that ref's pre-race rule talk -- not sure if that was FatguyRacer -- y'all gotta speak up! No one beyond 4 bikes back could hear that ref and we told him as much, but he didn't seem to care. It's not fair to make little effort to explain the rules then start enforcing them like they were blared over a PA system. Get a bullhorn or have someone with a real voice explain them. Especially when you're doing something like taking a lap out of a 4 lap race.

I wasnt the one giving the instructions. I will mention your concerns to the CR who did. He is a softspoken guy and not a yeller like me and Stefan. I have toed the line to more than a few races where the CR didnt speak loud enough to be heard. And I've been to many more where some racers wouldnt shut the hell up while the CR was talking. I wouldnt say he didnt care, he was doing the best he could with what he had to work with. He may not have realized he needed a bull horn (I dont even remember seeing one, if there was one) to talk. The other fields were small enough that it wasnt needed.

I wasnt the one giving the instructions. I will mention your concerns to the CR who did. He is a softspoken guy and not a yeller like me and Stefan. I have toed the line to more than a few races where the CR didnt speak loud enough to be heard. And I've been to many more where some racers wouldnt shut the hell up while the CR was talking. I wouldnt say he didnt care, he was doing the best he could with what he had to work with. He may not have realized he needed a bull horn (I dont even remember seeing one, if there was one) to talk. The other fields were small enough that it wasnt needed.

Thanks, FatguyRacer, and to the other moto regulars. I like all you guys and should probably have not suggested the CR didn't care.

Stefan (short w/ tied pony tail, right?) is hilarious -- a friend of mine was getting dropped on the Tour of Wash. Co. road race and as he came by on his motorcycle, Stefan yelled to my friend this tidbit of encouragement, "C'mon man, get on the mothership, GET ON THE MOTHERSHIP!" Wtf that means? I don't exactly know, but my team has been saying that to each other ever since.

But that's the rule. Being pulled isn't a DNF. If you hang on long enough in a race where lots of people are being pulled for safety reasons or whatever, then you might make it on the results list. It's because being pulled is different than abandoning because of some problem or because you just gave up. You would have presumably trudged along to the finish eventually (also presumably in that position relative to the others) had it not been for the officials.


I disagree with both of you. Just because a rider finishes outside the main group in a professional race - be it the TDF or any one-day race, doesn't mean they DNF... it just means they finished in a non-contentious group.

With amateur racing, if an official pulls you it's usually because you're a headache to keep track of, not because you can't finish the race. Which means you should still get placed.

Just because someone got a placing to go with their neck-slice-with-finger gesture from the moto doesn't mean they finished.

It's a case of, "sorry, them's the breaks." Pros get the luxury of taking their sweet time (and not even sometimes, like the cutoff enforced in the TdF) and we amateurs don't. Otherwise we've got a bunch of people standing around after a race talking about how they finished, but also comparing how many miles they just rode. There's no shame in saying a race result was "placed, but didn't finish." I'm not one for ego, but I'd be miffed if everyone got to go around saying they finished a tough race like Page Valley when I had to battle it out for the full 42 miles and they "finished" in 26 miles.

Precisely, part of the story of this race is that we had 60 starters and only about 15 finishers. If that reflects motos who decided no one was being left behind on the course, so be it. That's the way the cookie crumbled in this race. Otherwise, we're gonna fall into the annoying mentality of those everyone-wins Little League games.

Just because someone got a placing to go with their neck-slice-with-finger gesture from the moto doesn't mean they finished.

It's a case of, "sorry, them's the breaks." Pros get the luxury of taking their sweet time (and not even sometimes, like the cutoff enforced in the TdF) and we amateurs don't. Otherwise we've got a bunch of people standing around after a race talking about how they finished, but also comparing how many miles they just rode. There's no shame in saying a race result was "placed, but didn't finish." I'm not one for ego, but I'd be miffed if everyone got to go around saying they finished a tough race like Page Valley when I had to battle it out for the full 42 miles and they "finished" in 26 miles.

Precisely, part of the story of this race is that we had 60 starters and only about 15 finishers. If that reflects motos who decided no one was being left behind on the course, so be it. That's the way the cookie crumbled in this race. Otherwise, we're gonna fall into the annoying mentality of those everyone-wins Little League games.

Everyone-wins and Everyone-finishes are two different ideas. Per your example, riders who "finished" in 26 miles did so not because they were capable of riding only 26 miles, but because the officials limited their race to 26 miles. I'll bet my house that those who could have ridden all 42 miles would prefer to have. As it is, the powers that be decided they were not allowed to.

Do you see the difference?

Precisely, part of the story of this race is that we had 60 starters and only about 15 finishers. If that reflects motos who decided no one was being left behind on the course, so be it. That's the way the cookie crumbled in this race. Otherwise, we're gonna fall into the annoying mentality of those everyone-wins Little League games.

We had more than 15 finishers. I know, cause I was making damn well sure there was someone behind me on the climb :P So we had at least 16!

Point well made though.

At the end of the day, regardless of the way pulled riders got placed in the results, it doesn't have an effect on the other placements, so for that it's no biggie. It was a great race, on a great course. It was run very well and aside from the few sketchy guys that were gone by the last lap, (well.. cept the overcooked last corner), it was exceptionally safe. Again, definitely on the schedule for next year if it's running this course again.

jesus christ why do you guys care if someone gets pulled yet placed?

jesus christ why do you guys care if someone gets pulled yet placed?

Didn't know I was bothering you, pal. If I had, I would have tried harder.

Find the line where I said I care if someone gets pulled yet placed. You can't. On top of that, I also said there's no shame is getting pulled and placed. That would indicate I don't care if that happens.

But, being a man who thinks rules and definitions are interesting things, I'm willing to debate with others in this thread my viewpoint that getting pulled and placed is not really finishing. Meaning that someone would be wrong to say they finished if they didn't complete the mileage of the race. We're having a highly civilized (no personal attacks) discussion by BF standards. Until you came around with nothing to add and no reading comprehension, that is.

jesus christ why do you guys care if someone gets pulled yet placed?

To me it's less about the topic being argued as it is the argument itself...

Didn't know I was bothering you, pal. If I had, I would have tried harder.

Find the line where I said I care if someone gets pulled yet placed. You can't. On top of that, I also said there's no shame is getting pulled and placed. That would indicate I don't care if that happens.

But, being a man who thinks rules and definitions are interesting things, I'm willing to debate with others in this thread my viewpoint that getting pulled and placed is not really finishing. Meaning that someone would be wrong to say they finished if they didn't complete the mileage of the race. We're having a highly civilized (no personal attacks) discussion by BF standards. Until you came around with nothing to add and no reading comprehension, that is.

wait whose the one making personal attacks? where did I do that?

u mad

I don't "care" if they got placed. I just said I was surprised they were. I'm no rules guy from USAC but I thought (before this) if you got pulled, you DNF'd. That's what I would expect to see if I got pulled. Anyway, that was Sunday. It's Tuesday. Time to head out from work and prep for some hammer time on the group ride. Something new to talk about!

It was a really nice race and the volunteers all did a great job!

wait whose the one making personal attacks? where did I do that?

u mad

I decided you deserved a personal attack. But your reading comprehension belies you again, I never claimed you made a personal attack. Maybe I would think so if I answered to Jesus Christ, but I don't.

I don't "care" if they got placed. I just said I was surprised they were. I'm no rules guy from USAC but I thought (before this) if you got pulled, you DNF'd. That's what I would expect to see if I got pulled. Anyway, that was Sunday. It's Tuesday. Time to head out from work and prep for some hammer time on the group ride. Something new to talk about!

+1 on keeping the Big Picture in view. I've already done my riding today, so this is all I have right now.

I'll keep an open ear for anyone with a convincing argument on the other side of the pulled vs. finished debate. Until then, I won't push the topic.

I decided you deserved a personal attack. But your reading comprehension belies you again, I never claimed you made a personal attack. Maybe I would think so if I answered to Jesus Christ, but I don't.

i think its funny how you get on a high horse talking about a thread being civilized and free of personal attacks and than you go ahead and make one! :roflmao2: :lol: :thumb: :twitchy:

The argument is that the rules say so.


3C. Individual Road Race...3C3. A lapped rider or one who has fallen too far behind
and is considered to be out of contention may be called off
the course by the Chief Referee. Riders on different laps may
not give or receive pace from one another. A lapped rider
must not interfere in any prime sprint or finishing sprint and
must ride sufficient laps at the end so as to cover the entire
distance in order to qualify for a prize.

So, you can place if you get pulled. Placing with a DNF is contradictory. So, if you are pulled, you finished. For a variety of reasons, the officials want you off the road if you are out of contention for the top spots. It assumes that the pulled rider wouldn't have withdrawn from the race later on, but would have finished the race, and in the same place relative to the other racers as was his position when he was pulled.

It goes along with this rule:

1N. Finish of a Race 1N5. Early Finish. After the first competitor has finished, the
chief referee may excuse one or more riders from completing
the distance in order to secure a place, which would clearly
have been won by finishing. The Chief Referee may also
excuse from completing the distance a rider who, by accident
or withdrawal of others, is the only competitor left in the race.

So, if the pulled rider kept going, eventually he would be out there after the lead group finished. He would get whatever place he's in relative to the pack. He's excused from finishing the lap(s) because the race is basically over anyway. I don't see how there's a difference if the official waits until the winner crosses the line. It may defeat the purpose (safety) of pulling the rider in the first place. The biggest difference is that the racer gets less of a chance to do the total distance.

If you finish a lap down, you still finish, don't you? Think about a crit or circuit, where you won't get to do that other lap. In a crit, I guess you still put in the time for the race. But in the circuit, you didn't do the mileage. Depending on the conditions, you could be pulled from those races before time is up. The same goes for road races. The pulling is at the official's discretion, and so why discriminate against people who are OTB and get pulled compared to those who are OTB in a smaller field or under different conditions and don't get pulled? They all deserve a place if they get one. And they get a finished race on their record. That's part of the reason they hang on anyway. They want to try to see if they can finish the whole distance too. Otherwise, if you were just going to get a DNF, wouldn't you just abandon and end the suffering yourself?

It is splitting hairs, but the placing can matter when, for whatever reason, lots of people get pulled and you could use the result. The way the rules read, there really is no such thing as "placing but not finishing".

So, you can place if you get pulled. Placing with a DNF is contradictory. So, if you are pulled, you finished. For a variety of reasons, the officials want you off the road if you are out of contention for the top spots. It assumes that the pulled rider wouldn't have withdrawn from the race later on, but would have finished the race, and in the same place relative to the other racers as was his position when he was pulled.

The first rule you quoted does not include any language that suggests a pulled rider would finish in position where he/she was at time of pull. No mention is made of placing a rider. That is mentioned in the second quoted rule, but that only applies in cases where the race is effectively over, in that 1st place has been won. If you get pulled before that first rider goes across the line in regulation distance, that's apparently a textbook DNF by way of pull. I rest my case under those circumstances.

I admit the law's on your side once the race is over. But in that case, the only real thing to say should be, "Damn, that was a fast race. I'll have to train harder to actually finish it with those other riders next time."

What about the language: "...and must ride sufficient laps at the end so as to cover the entire distance in order to qualify for a prize" ?

Now this wouldn't happen if the rider is called off by the CR as in the beginning of the rule, but only if the lapped rider is left out on the course. But then if you add that to the second rule, if the rider isn't pulled, then they would be out there after the race is over, so they would then be excused from completing the course if it's clear they would secure whatever place.

If the rider is pulled, he is excused from finishing the distance, and if there are only 15 crossing the line, for example like in the OP, then it makes sense to let some of the last to be pulled get on the results list.

It is also a completely arbitrary decision by the official to pull riders. It has nothing to do with the racer's ability to finish the course. In the interest of having the faster people finishing, it may be a good idea to get the slow people out of the way by pulling them. Why let someone who is dropped off the field get to put a result down because the field is really small or because there was no reason not to leave him out in no man's land if the rule is such that in another race, everyone who is off the lead pack gets pulled and they all have to effectively put down a DNF on their race resume? Why not let someone be 16th of 100 because he got pulled in one race and then let him be OTB and 16th because he came across the line 10 min later in another when the decision to pull riders is discretionary and may vary from race to race or even year to year for the same race?

Maybe I'm not reading that right, but I don't think that being pulled under the first rule is a DNF. It's an involuntary order to withdraw. Maybe I ought to compare this to the collegiate rulebook. There, if you are pulled in a place that earns points, you still place and earn points.

^ Way too much to address. That concludes tonight's broadcast.

Wow, this got a bit out of hand.
On Sunday, the officials tried to put racers out of their misery. Of course, we all signed up for that race so that we could suffer, certainly, and we did. Big time. Now, I would have much preferred to go the entire distance. It's not my fault that I was pulled; road races rarely pull racers. Those races that do are usually worried about time (e.g. WVU 07). I know I was on course from 0730 that morning, and many marshals hadn't had a break. That was surely a factor, especially in the heat of the afternoon.

"Damn, that was a fast race. I'll have to train harder to actually finish it with those other riders next time."
This sounds like HTFU which suits bikeforums but is not helpful. Nothing sucks more than not being placed because you were "out of contention". What if you usually come 40th and you were fighting to 30th? That place really matters to those riders, like me. 1st place is not all that matters. To the racer, every position is of vital interest and more so in a race with no field to speak of.

Being pulled and placed makes it easier to get results done and posted quicker and the course cleared faster. Since start/finish was a couple miles away from registation/staging area, speed was important to keep things rolling.

Oh yeah, same Stephan.

We almost didnt make it to first race. He got a flat on the way over on Bixlers Ferry Rd. He was following me and then he disappeared. I turned around to find him and he was limping down the road with a flat. This was about 7:15 am. He had no stuff, but lucky for him I did. And I only had stuff becuase I had a flat 2 weeks earlier at the Church Creek TT and he helped me fix it. So I still has a couple of plug kits and tools and 4 CO2 cartridges in my tool kit. We fixed one hole, wasted a cartridge and found another hole, wasted a cartridge and then fixed 2nd hole than filled up with last 2 carts. We limped over to the closest gas station in Luray and topped off and boogied to Hawksbill Park. We got there with only moments to spare before the first races got underway. Phew!

^^^ we all heard about that over our radios and wondered how you fix a flat on a moto :)

^^^ we all heard about that over our radios and wondered how you fix a flat on a moto :)

Same as a car tire. Plugs. Same ones too. I got them at Walmart. But like a bicycle tire, CO2 works. It takes (3) 16oz cartridges to fill an average rear motorcycle tire. I only had the carts left because when i fixed my flat I was fortunate to be able to use a teamates bicycle pump to fill mine so I wouldnt have to use my cartridges.

So here the tip o the day.

Keep 4 cartridges, a plug kit and a bottle of water on you at all times when your riding your motorcycle.

^^^I always had a spare with me when I drove a car... but I gotcha :)