General Cycling Discussion - When do you think a bike rider is "elderly"

There has been some discussion about "elderly" recumbent riders. As a near "Senior Citizen" at age 62, with a wife two years older who also rides, I am rather curious as to when you folks consider someone to be "elderly." That way, I will know when to change my signature form "Bicycling is like flying as a bird" to "Posted by an elderly rider". :mad:

And, you can't cop out by saying "never" or "when you think you are." We ALL think of someone else as elderly. What is their age??

A bike rider is elderly when he/she stops biking.

On my rides I see people that if they were off the bike I'd think they'd crumble into a pile.

I ride with guys in their upper sixties that'd give all of us a run for our money.

Denver, I think you are putting too much stress on Chronological Age. Mental attitude and willingness to keep trying and experimenting and accepting new challenging things is the true test of being "elderly."
That is, of course, if your "physical" body will allow it. I've been going through a year of minor breakdowns which have handicapped me a little, and it's starting to make me think I may be getting old. But until this, I would and could and did try to do everything as though I were twenty five.
In fact, my youngest son, who's 28, and I are planning to bike across Canada from Nova Scotia to Vancouver as soon as my body gets repaired. With luck, it will be next summer; if not, it will be the next one.
The point is, it has nothing to do with Chronological Age, it has everything to do with mental attitude.

Originally posted by ljbike
The point is, it has nothing to do with Chronological Age, it has everything to do with mental attitude.

WRONG!!

You and I may think that, but I refer you to the original poster who stated, to the effect, the "elderly recumbent bike riders" seem to go fast, or something like that.

So, how did the guy know they were elderly? He did not ask their attitude, he simply observed them, and from his observation, determined that they were "elderly." You are missing my point. There IS some age when OTHERS start considering you elderly. I was at the restaurant yesterday, and there were a number of folks there who I would definitely consider elderly. What was it that this guy observed about those recumbent riders that placed in his mind the modifier "elderly"? Was it gray hair? Was it wrinkled faces? Was it an assumption of age? THAT is what I am trying to figure out.

Actually, it's not age that makes "elderly recumbent riders" elderly; it's the recumbents. ;)

Well, as a 60 year old, I think that may be the age. :D

But I remember the first time I was at the summit of Mt. Ventoux (by car, of course). While there, a group of about a dozen bicycle riders, who I guessed were between 60 and 80, had just arrived at the top! And not too much the worse for wear either. So maybe it is a different number.

That experience is just one of many factors that led to my goal of cycling up Mt. Ventoux. I figure I will be about 63 when I do it the first time.

Cheers...Gary

Originally posted by DnvrFox
Was it gray hair? Was it wrinkled faces?

Well, I'm 39, have 80% gray hair, and wrinkles from a life of way too much sun.

Now you have me completely freaked out!

For the love of God will someone answer the question!

When I was kid, I was really into cross country skiing. I mean REALLY into it -- pinetarred Jarvinen skis, three-point Rotefella bindings, the works -- and I remember that I had a Jackrabbit Johannsen wax set when I was about 10 or 12.

Jackrabbit was a Norwegian skiier who introduced cross country skiing to Canada. He was born in 1875 and moved to Canada after the second world war. He was a tireless promoter of the sport and an amazing athlete who skied almost right up to his death of 1985 [yes, he was 110]. I remember seeing him when he was a younger man of 100, though. He wasn't going to win any gold medals at that age, but he had such amazing grace and moved across the snow at such speed that I simply couldn't believe that he was as old as that. I thought he was some kind of mythic Norse creature. This thread makes me think of Jackrabbit. Was he elderly?

And then there's Giuseppe Marinoni, the president of Marinoni Bicycles. In the 1960s, he was one of the top racers in Quebec and, you know what? He's still racing and winning races at about 66. I don't think he could beat me in a sprint, but Marinoni always had the reputation of a rouleur and a climber and I understand he's still go the chops.

Elderly is a meaninless word in sport. If you want to be elderly, fine -- go right ahead, be elderly. If you don't want to be elderly, then don't worry about what other people say. Jackrabbit didn't, though I really don't remember anyone mentioning that he was elderly.

Denver, I don't want to get into a debate about semantics, but Viciouscycle used two terms, "senior citizens" & "elderly." There are several ways to measure the former, AARP says 50 is the eligible age to be a senior citizen. My local restaurants give discounts after 60 --which I think may be the most recognzied age, and, of course, Social Security says 65.
However, in answer to your specific question of when do I think somebody else is old, I'd have to give a multiple answer: when I was 10, 15 was old; when I was 20, 35 was old; when I was 30, 60 was old; when I was 40, 70 was old; when I was 50, 80 was old; when I was 60, I started to judge by the person's attitude and zest for life and their physical wellness. Those who have both are ageless, and those who have neither are just old; no matter what their age.
Since your question was inspired by Viciouscyle, I'm going to let him give the definitive answer when next he posts.

DARN!!

No one will answer my poll!! I am the ONLY responder.

Are you all afraid to take a stand? Perhaps those of us who are elderly are the only ones with the guts to stake a position somewhere. :confused:

Folks, just a little tongue-in-cheek here.

I do think that the perception of "elderly" does change as you get more mature. But, I still want to know how "viciouscycle" knew these recumbent riders were elderly, or even "senior citizens"??

However, in answer to your specific question of when do I think somebody else is old

No, the question was when do you think someone is "elderly" not "old". Do you equate the two? I see them as different. I read "frail" and "tottering," at least a bit, into the term "elderly." I don't read them into "old."

How about you?

I think 55 is the beginning. This is the age that we can purchase off the Senior Citizen menu at restaurants.

But it doesn't really matter what I think except when I'm considering my own age. Everyone at every age level has a different view of what age is elderly. I'm sure most of our BMXers will consider most of us ancient by their standards.


http://www.smilies-world.de/Smilies/Smilies_Riesen/lil.gif

Elderly starts at about ten years older than my present age at a given moment. At this moment, I'm 61.9l7 years old.

Originally posted by JonR
Elderly starts at about ten years older than my present age at a given moment. At this moment, I'm 61.9l7 years old.

YES!! Finally a sensible answer (but I would go for 15 years older).

I notice the responses to the poll range from 56-60 to 81+. I would bet that most of the responders are 10-15 years younger than their responses.

Originally posted by DnvrFox
I notice the responses to the poll range from 56-60 to 81+. I would bet that most of the responders are 10-15 years younger than their responses.
Actually, I'm 45 years younger than my response. Of course, my father specialized in gerontology before he retired, so I might have picked up a different focus by osmosis.

Denver, I equate elderly and old as synonomous terms.

I'm glad to see this thread is getting a lot of response, even if you're not getting the answers you wanted. I'm interested to see what further opinions are forthcoming.

In about 75 years time, I intend to celebrate my 100th birthday by riding up Springbrook or whatever mountain is near where I live at the time. Does anyone really give a stuff about age anyway? I mean really? Who cares whether someone thinks you are old or not?

Well, I fit into the category of someone who selected about 15 years older than my current age (54). In this context, I think of "elderly" as meaning a little slower up the hills, a little more brittle when crashing, and a little longer to heal. I certainly don't think of "elderly" necessarily having the negative connotation of "over the hill." I ride with my "elders" all the time, and I am hoping to be just like them as I go through the next 40 years of cycling.

FWIW, I would use the term "elderly" to describe a persons appearance.. they would be frail, in need of perhaps a walking stick, white hair etc etc, but........I would'nt use this decription on someone who had white hair, healthy stature, rosie complexion but the same age as the first mentioned.. there is a great story in the december issue of "Bicycling" on age .:)

When they're 20 years older than me, and that's probably not too many.

Ride past elderly
Pat

Denver, it really breaks my heart to see so many "elderly" folk who can't get from the car to the front door without panting, some of whom are under 45.

Joke:

A lady retires early, being of more than sufficient means. She goes to Colorado, looking for the ideal retirement situation, hoping to find some added meaning in her later years, having spent many of her days overworked in the rat race. She especially needed to rejuvinate her waning health.

Winding through mountain passes, she stops in at a humble shop.
A man of undefineable years comes energetically to serve her. It is hard to know exactly how old he is: he is advanced in years but has the spirit of youth and the energy to match.

"How may I help you, ma'am?" he asks with a gleam in his eye.

"Excuse me, you seem to be native to this area...if it's not too much trouble, I'm looking for a good place to retire. My health, is, well...not the best. And I must say, you look quite the youthful gentleman, given your maturity. It seems the mountains have kept you young, eh?" she said hopefully.

"Yes," replied the man, "Colorado has done wonders for me. Look at me! Why, when I came here, I was so weak, I had to be carried! For some time, I even had to be fed. But look at me now!"

"I am amazed!" the lady exclaimed. "How long have you lived here?"

"Since I was born."

:D

Originally posted by ljbike
Denver, I equate elderly and old as synonomous terms.

I'm glad to see this thread is getting a lot of response, even if you're not getting the answers you wanted. I'm interested to see what further opinions are forthcoming.

I am always amazed at how things get interpreted on the internet. There were no answers that I "wanted." I was just curious to find out what people were thinking.

Help me out her, ljbike. Just what answers did you think I wanted?

Then again maybe someone elderly thinks I'm one of those "young, whipper-snapper,MTB ridin' punk fools" and they'd be correct .:D

Denver, I think you had a preconceived idea and wanted it corroborated.
I'm still waiting for Viciouscycle to respond. I also think there has been some very good answers so far, and hope there will be more.

"Old" is when you recive discounts at Krispy Kreme :)

"Elderly" is when you can take your teeth out to eat at KK :eek:

Just check out my signature which expresses my feelings on being old/elderly!

Just keep on playing and you'll never grow old!:)

Originally posted by Joe Gardner
"Old" is when you recive discounts at Krispy Kreme :)

"Elderly" is when you can take your teeth out to eat at KK :eek:

Best answer yet! :)

Originally posted by ljbike
Denver, I think you had a preconceived idea and wanted it corroborated.
I'm still waiting for Viciouscycle to respond. I also think there has been some very good answers so far, and hope there will be more.

And, just what was that preconceived idea, pray tell? It seems obvious to you. Clue me in also!!

I don't see any elderly cyclists here in Atlanta's northern suburbs. But a general answer would be >70 (I'm 44). But then, I hope I'm doing as well as my parents and mother-in-law when I'm their age.

Kevin S.

Denver, I think you wanted everybody to say you weren't elderly; that elderly was something that would happen to you sometime in the future. By your own standard that would be 15 years older than your age.

I think emphasis on chronological age is debilitating, and therefore I deny its validity. How others percieve us should be of no concern; how we perceive ourselves is the only important criteria for judgement. (If I were you, I wouldn't be too eager to change my signature. It's a good one if you still feel that way about biking, and I think you do.)

And I'm still gonna wait for ViciousCycle to settle the debate for once and for all!

DnvrFox,

You seem to be worked up over this.

The question you specifically asked was "When do you think a bike rider is elderly.

My original answer of "When he stops riding" is the purest, most straight forward answer I can give.

I see one fellow on my rides that must be 95 years old. He rides a E Bike at about six miles an hour and his slow but constant pedaling does little or nothing to add to his forward progression. From what I can tell, he is a very decrepit old guy but still has a spirit in him that is magic. Is this guy "elderly"? Absolutely. But more so off the bike than on.

Change your question to "When do you think a person is elderly" and the answers will be different.

Wait....
"when his corns won't allow his Shimano shoes to fit"
or
"When his Bob Dole hand can't clench the bars anymore"
or
"When he runs out of oxygen tubing"
or
"When he finds out Oakley doesn't make trifocals"
or...........
Sorry.

[/I]
Denver, I think you wanted everybody to say you weren't elderly; that elderly was something that would happen to you sometime in the future. By your own standard that would be 15 years older than your age.

Nah! I am quite secure in my elderliness or non-elderliness. I have been quite fascinated by the perception of age and aging. I even started my own list for "senior fitness" which went pretty well for a couple of years (it died a slow death last year). It had national competitors in swimming, randoneering, etc., participating.

What particularly bothers(ed) me is the emphasis in the current literature of an "older" or "senior citizen" mentality among fitness gurus and the media. Specifically, when you are young you lift heavy weights, do vigorous exercises, etc. When you are a "senior" you do 20 pound barbell curls, walk. In other words, there seemed to be no place for a vigorous, active 65 yo in the popular media - much less a vigorous, active 75 yo.

So, I am interested whenever I see the word "elderly" and its synonyms attached to people, and am highly curious as to how and why folks get slammed with these modifiers.

I would like to see a world where those continuous commercials on TV (infomercials?) feature not a 28 yo stud using the Bowflex, but instead, a 70 yo stud using the Bowflex, lifting 250 pounds on the Bench Press, riding centuries (instead of tooling around town on their hybrid).

Bah, humbug!!

You seem to be worked up over this

Well, I guess I am as entitled to a vigorous a discussion as the next person, right? I mean there are threads that go on and on for pages and pages about very unweighty and sometimes silly matters, right? There were 120 posts on the subject: ."I think you can tell alot about a person by the car they drive" Now, that is certainly a weighty and important issue!!

So, if we discuss something serious and with meaning, I am "worked up." Am I making you uncomfortable? Hope not!!

Incidentally, I don't see a difference between a "biker" and someone in any other sport or activity

Originally posted by DnvrFox


Well, I guess I am as entitled to a vigorous a discussion as the next person, right? I mean there are threads that go on and on for pages and pages about very unweighty and sometimes silly matters, right? There were 120 posts on the subject: ."I think you can tell alot about a person by the car they drive" Now, that is certainly a weighty and important issue!!

So, if we discuss something serious and with meaning, I am "worked up." Am I making you uncomfortable? Hope not!!

Incidentally, I don't see a difference between a "biker" and someone in any other sport or activity

Point taken.

My favourite "elderly" cyclist story --

Thirty years ago, I, then a 21-year-old UCLA undergrad returning home from a long ride up Pacific Coast Highway, caught up with a couple of casual cyclists about my age. A few miles later, when a guy with short white hair, a white goatee, and a white Mercier smiled as he effortlessly cruised past us, one of my newfound friends challenged his companion, "Are you going to let an old guy like that pass you?" I replied, "I won't," as I broke away from them to pursue the gent on the Mercier. When I caught up with him, his first words were, "You keep up a good pace," to which I replied, "That should be MY line." A Physics Ph.D., entrepreneur, and ex-Marine thirty years my senior, Ollie became my cycling mentor and part-time employer, and I never would have considered attempting a Double Century, which we completed together four months later in 12:18, had I not met him. Midway through the DC, we met a 76-year-old black gentleman who was riding his 12th annual Los Angeles Wheelmen DC.

Dnvr...

The problem with the term "elderly" is that it is an entirely subjective and relative term. It's subjective because, as you pointed out, our idea of "elderly" depends on where you happen to look at it. In its strictest etymological sense, it refers to the condition of being [an] elder. So that means the condition of being senior in age [and, one assumes, in experience] to someone else. There's no way to get around the subjectivity in that, any definition of seniority will be subject to the referant.

So it's also relative. I am, strictly, elderly relative to my 18-month-old niece; you are elderly relative to me. My father retired at the age of 70; until retirement, he worked with the elderly. Doubtless, most of his clients were older than him, but a handful were younger. In this context, the term elderly did not have a direct correspondence with chronological age, but referred to something else that was relative to the relationship between my father and his clients.

I'm sorry if this all seems like semantical games. I know you want a clear, concrete, absolute definition of the term but I don't think that's possible. What is possible is a deconstruction of the term to understand its meaning and I think that meaning is highly variable.

In fact, I suspect the best way is to try to understand the meaning rather than the strict definition of elderly, and that meaning is highly nuanced. In fact, the only meaning that really makes any sense is that elderly is a description of certain characteristics that we typically associate with advanced age, but which do not necessarily correspond with chronological age. What does elderly mean? That it/he/she looks or appears old, not that it/he/she is old.

Consequently, neither you not Jackrabbit Johannsen are/were elderly, though you may be chronologically more senior than some other athletes, while my 40-year-old brother, who is dull, grey, slow and lifeless [characteristics most often associated with advanced age] is elderly.

I put 71 plus, but I know some older cyclists who still wap along, albeit at a slower speed.

Age is only a state of mind.

It seems that in bike terms, elderly is totally relative! They refer to Jeannie Longo as the "Grand old lady" of cycling and yet, she still wins the World Champs. And sometimes I'll see cyclists zooming along and not know how old they are until I get close enough to see that they're in their 60s! And then I see people like the 40 year old brother Velocipedio described- in my age range but they look and act so old and resigned, as if they can't WAIT to be middle aged.

Getting back to cycling- I guess if you're too decrepit to get on a bike and you're in a wheelchair and living in a home, then maybe you're elderly. But the 60-something cyclists I see are not elderly. They could for sure go up Mont Ventoux! I guess I could too, but it would take a lot longer- Queen of the Mountains I ain't.

Elderly?...if you're still riding, you ain't!

Perhaps the word elderly was just used as a form of physical description, to give us a mental picture.

Age as someone stated earlier is only relitive!

As i go through each span of my existance,
I count my blessings that i am able to live life to the full and remain fit, healthy and am able to enjoy and partiserpate in all the activities i have enjoyed ever since a child.

How many millions of people are there that have died so young and are unable to answer the questions being posed here.

I say just get on living regardless of what age you have attained,

No one can turn back time.

Denver , you said you don't see a difference between a "biker" and someone else in another sport or activity . Are you refering to this for an elderly person ??

This has been MOST interesting.

Over half of the responders did not think "elderly" started until at least age 71 or later, with almost half stating it started at age 76 or later, and nine of 25 responders did not think that it started until age 81 or later.

Yet, one responder thought "elderly" started at between 46-50 years of age, while a couple of others placed it in the 50-59 age bracket.

That would make almost ALL of the congress "elderly" along with about 2/3rd's of the American population, and almost ALL business executives!!

It seems that "elderly" truly is in the eye of the beholder.

And, "viciouscycle", who first applied "elderly" to a group of recumbent riders, seems to have disappeared, not clarifying his position one bit.

My only conclusion - be not too hasty in applying words such as "elderly" and other words that tend to generalize and categorize folks neatly and in nice groups, which are handy but almost always invalid identifiers of people.

And, that is MY last word on the topic!!

Thanks for all the response.

Elderly or not is all in the mind. A friend of mine started riding at age 59 after 25 years off the bike. On Good Friday of 1999 (at 61) he did the Binna Burra climb in the Gold Coast hinterland, a pretty fair climb to do for one's first mountain. He has also offered advice at times which has helped many younger riders (myself included).

I guess by the strictest definitions, he might be considered elderly, but try telling him that!

30 years ago I used to complain that the world was full of old people. Times sure do change. Now almost everyone is so young. How come? :confused:

30 years ago my friends and I would tear up the town on our skateboards oblivious to the world around us. There was always that mean old fart that would come out of his house in a pair of tattered boxer shorts waving and old golf club or something to shoo us away and threaten to call the cops. We'd yell and laugh as we scattered and think what a loser that old dust ball was.

Everytime the skatepunks in the street are getting on my nerves I feel like it's just a matter of time until I snap and become that old fart.

The golf club is by the door...........

Originally posted by MikeR
30 years ago I used to complain that the world was full of old people. Times sure do change. Now almost everyone is so young. How come? :confused:
I don't know. I've noticed the same thing. I think it's covered somewhere in the Theory of General Relativity, but that's out of my league, so I guess I'll never know. :rolleyes:

Whatever your age-- any day this side of the grass is something to be thankful for!!!!