Road Cycling - Litespeed Debate...

I have been looking to replace my Tuscany w/ insurance payment. (Previous thread) None of the local shops have one in stock in my size but in visiting a few shops, I saw the replacement for the Arenberg (the Firenze). It is a pretty good looking bike but the LBS guy told me it was Litespeed's entry level frame. Litespeed's website indicates that a 55cm entire bike weighs in at less than 18 lbs. I ride a 57 inch frame so I'm guessing an extra 1/2 pound or so? Anyways, the only reason that I was looking at this bike was that the MSRP ($1999) is significantly lower than what it would cost to replace my beloved Tuscany. As I stated in a previous thread, I have full intention to ride collegiately in the fall. I could save myself some serious jack here by what the LBS guy said "downgrading" to the Firenze. My question is (if anyone can help me out here) what would a 57cm Tuscany Ultegra w/ Ksyrium Elites weigh (or how could I convert grams to pounds--I know the mass in grams) Also, would I notice much of a difference between the 2004 Firenze and Tuscany for racing? I do some Crit races but primarily I'm into RR. Would the difference in the 2 bikes be enough for me to even notice in racing them? My guess is that most readers of this thread will have more experience/knowledge of the Arenberg than the Firenze so a comparison w/ that bike is also fine. Thanks a million if anyone can help me!

I expect one drawback is that the Firenze has round tubes, so for racing there'd be more side-to-side flex on a sprint or hard acceleration. That said, I have a cat 4 friend that races crits, TTs, and RRs on an Arenberg. If performance is the main criteria, maybe go for a quality Al frame? Or, keep scanning the web for a bargain on a Tuscany frame. But you probably would have had better luck in the fall.

To convert to grams to lbs:
Kg = grams/1000
lbs = Kg * 2.205

I just bought the firenze...... and I love it. actually ive only ridden it once. But I race in new england junior races, and what Ive experienced so far with the firenze is amazing. I had a cannondale caad5 frame before, and the firenze outclimbs it by far. People say it is flexy when you sprint, but I could not tell the difference from my cannondale, and I race in alot of track/and criteriums. Its a great bike, and will last a long time. I think it will do the best in time trials though.

That is a tough question. The Tuscany looks like a budget Vortex, the Firenze looks like a budget Tuscany.

Of course you have options like the Classic and Solano inbetween the Firenze and Tuscany too.

I ride a Tuscany. It IS a great bike.

I doubt that weight should be the deciding factor for you. My concern would be that the Firenze would not be as stiff as the Tuscany, notwithstanding wheelerw's nice comments about the Firneze. A couple hundred grams (half a pound) will not feel nearly as important as a loss of stiffness.

Litespeed might be able to give you information about the relative stiffness of the Tuscany and the Firenze.

On the more base level.... if you're like me, a replacement Tuscany will leave you completely satisfied and cured of bike lust. With a Firenze, there'd be a nagging yearning to get the bike you really want... ultimately ending up in you replacing the Firenze at an eventually greater cost (2 bikes instead of the one you want the first time).

Rember, after all the money is spent, 90% of performance is in the engine.

If you look at the Litespeed website they give you stiffness ratings and stiffness / weight ratings.
Here are their ratings.
Tuscany stiffness - 4.6
Firenze stiffness - 4.3

Tuscany stiffness/weight - 4.4
Firenze stiffness/weight - 4.3

Tuscany ride quality - 4.7
Firenze ride quality - 4.5

The numbers show that the Tuscany is a but stiffer and the ride quality is a bit higher. I have a Firenze and love it. It is hard to imagine the ride quality being any better. :eek:

Since you are used to a Tuscany, I would say that one test ride on a Firenze will tell you if there is a difference. If you can tell one, definitely get the Tuscany. If not, maybe save some $$$. I think that I would have problems downgrading, even if only psychologically.

It is their "entry level" frame. This is basically a fact that they use round tubing rather than the exotic (expensive) shaped tubing that is used on other models. The down tube and main tube are oversized. The seat and chain stays have the classic Litespeed curves. Really, nothing entry level about it.

I am 6ft 197lbs. I don't notice any flex. I do notice how smooth it is and how it bolts up the hills.

FWIW, and IMHO, I think Litespeed has---or is about to---jumped the shark on frame design. Ti got a bad rep early on, with frames being noodles. Now, they, and other builders, have gone so far over-the-top on design, multi-shaped, mega-sized tubing and other marketing mumbo-jumbo, that I can't help but wonder if they've designed out the "magical" qualities that so many folks allude to about Ti. You might as well save your money and buy Al.

And sorry, maybe it's the purist in me, but so many of these frames look weird, if not outright ugly. I was looking at the '04 Tuscany, but they've lost me, aesthetically.

I ended up buying a Zion Phoenix from Jenson on a closeout dirt cheap. Haven't built it up yet, but it looks normal to my eye. Another plus, IMHO, is that it doesn't have that silly integrated headset nonsense. Feh. A guy I talked to at Litespeed said it's probably equivalent to the Solano in the current lineup. It even has a checklist tag from Litespeed, showing who did what during its manufacture.

You know, some flex is okay...especially as you get older.

But that's just me...and I've been wrong before...plenty of times. And, as always, YMMV.

Gunga galunga...err...gunga la gunga.

Doug

The Firenze dosn't have "that silly integrated headset nonsense". It has a Cane Creek S2. It also does not have the "multi-shaped" tubing.


I can't help but wonder if they've designed out the "magical" qualities that so many folks allude to about Ti.

You haven't actually ridden one, have you? There is a world of difference between the ride of AL and Ti. I just completed a couple months worth of test rides. The two materials feel totally different.

The Firenze has classic goemetry and classic round tubes.

FWIW, and IMHO, I think Litespeed has---or is about to---jumped the shark on frame design.

I ended up buying a Zion Phoenix from Jenson on a closeout dirt cheap. Haven't built it up yet, but it looks normal to my eye. Another plus, IMHO, is that it doesn't have that silly integrated headset nonsense.
Doug

Ok where do I start?
1. You own a generic brand Litespeed, yet you think Litespeed has "jumped the shark on frame design". :rolleyes: (btw, Litespeed no longer makes Zion)

2. You don't like the Tuscany. OK. You don't like "that silly integrated headset nonsense". OK.

What about the bike you mentioned? The Solano. Or the Classic? Both non-integrated headsets, both "standard" bikes (although the Solano has a shaped tt)
What about Avalanche's Firenze? What about the preimer Ghisallo? straight tubes, non-integrated headset.

So you think Litespeed is "off" yet you own one. You hate certain models and choose to completely ignore others. OK, that's one version of logic for you :rolleyes:

Jiminy, where's my asbestos suit? You guys are funny. And I probably shouldn't bother, but what the hey? After all, the thread is titled "Litespeed Debate."

Yes, I know the Firenze has a standard headset. Truth be known, the Phoenix may be one and the same as the Firenze...the guy from Litespeed said it was probalby closer to the Solano. The guy from Jenson said it was more like an Arenburg. Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe. They're durn nice Ti road bikes.

I was actually referring to the middle-to-top-shelf models, not the lower-end, the Ghisallo notwithstanding.

Yes, I've ridden both Ti and Al...yes, they feel different...but with the (over-) emphasis on stiffness, and energy transfer to the pedals being so hyped, is it wrong to speculate whether they're perhaps over-stiffening Ti?

And hey, the fancy, multi-sided tubes sure look cool, and set themselves apart from other bikes on the showroom floor, and I'm sure contribute to the frames' design goals...and they make it easier for sales guys to explain the difference between different brands of bikes in the shop (or elsewhere).

As long as the can o' worms is open, I think the '04 DA crank is ugly as sin. I understand and appreciate the engineering and design that's gone into it. And, to my eye, it looks a lot better with "normal" chainrings on it...but it also fits with the newer frame designs, shaped tubes, etc.

And no, I'm not a retro-grouch either...well, maybe a little. But if the integrated headset is the cat's arse, why isn't it on the Ghisallo?

Don't recall having said "hate" in my little blurb, but that's okay. I don't think I'd have bought a bike I hated. I was actually looking to pick up an '03 Tuscany, but they sold out.

If I had bought a Litespeed, if I ever chose to sell it one day, I'd get more for it than this Zion what's-it that no one's heard about...but that didn't matter to me. I typically buy-and-hold, and don't necessarily want the same stuff everybody else has.

And I respect the quality of work and product that comes from Chattanooga, even if I don't necessarily agree with or swoon over everything they've done over the years. Lord knows they've tried just about every full-suspension design known to man for MTBs...but I digress...

Besides that, the Zion was cheap at $799 for the frameset. And it's a collector's item to boot now! ;)

Ain't it great that life's full of choices? And that there's this fancy-schmancy worldwide computer doo-hickey so everyone's (myself included) nitwitted opinions can be shared with the whole world? Woo-hoo!

And lastly, jiminy people, it's a bike, fer cryin' out loud. Sheesh...it's not like I insulted someone's mother...yet...

Ain't it great that life's full of choices? And that there's this fancy-schmancy worldwide computer doo-hickey so everyone's (myself included) nitwitted opinions can be shared with the whole world? Woo-hoo!

And lastly, jiminy people, it's a bike fer cryin' out loud. Sheesh...I didn't think I was insulting someone's mother...

Oh ok, I thought you were the same guy that said:
"FWIW, and IMHO, I think Litespeed has---or is about to---jumped the shark on frame design. Ti got a bad rep early on, with frames being noodles. Now, they, and other builders, have gone so far over-the-top on design, multi-shaped, mega-sized tubing and other marketing mumbo-jumbo, that I can't help but wonder if they've designed out the "magical" qualities that so many folks allude to about Ti. You might as well save your money and buy Al.

And sorry, maybe it's the purist in me, but so many of these frames look weird, if not outright ugly. I was looking at the '04 Tuscany, but they've lost me, aesthetically."

Have you even ridden a 6/4 frame before speculating about how it's somehow similar to aluminum?

As for shaped tube Litespeeds being all hype, well I think Litespeed does it based on more than that. I don't know, what I can say is that I've actually had saddle time on bikes I talk about.

You can say they are ugly or not stylish. I don't care. But you really can't make performance statements that are plain wrong or misleading without backing it up. Hey, if you have time on a bike and an opinion on it, I'm all ears. But like this thread, I will be up for friendly debate when I see something that doesn't jive with my own experience.

And when you say you like having something different, you don't. You have a Litespeed generic brand.

"Something different" would be a Morati.

Avalanche325,
I think you've done more for Firenze sales than anyone. All I see are Firenze threads popping up all over the place.

Yeah, RacerX, I'm starting to sound like I work for Litespeed. Oh well, I'm just really happy with it. I am sure that my enthusiasm will die down..............in four or five years. :D

Avalanche325,
I think you've done more for Firenze sales than anyone. All I see are Firenze threads popping up all over the place.
Ya think because its a ti litespeed for 2000 grand? Make me a short list of other complete ti road bikes for $2000 or less and we will compare.

No it's because I did not read one thread on the Firenze until Avalache started posting about his. Now I see alot of threads on the Firenze.
I was talking to Avalanche325

I was talking to you and you heard me.

I have been hoping for a long time a magazine would do a road test comparing several roughly $2K Ti bikes. You can add Airborne and Douglas to the ones mentioned earlier. You could take a couple of Litespeeds (Firenze versus a Veneto would be interesting), a couple of Airbornes(Valkyrie and Zeppelin), Douglas, Zion, Habanero and any others that come to mind. Be curious to see what, if anything, the extra dough buys you.Heck, I'd like to do the road test myself :D

"upgrade your body, not your equipment"

"upgrade your body, not your equipment"

Our bodies have been upgraded. The difference now, is in the equipment we use.... ;)

I have been hoping for a long time a magazine would do a road test comparing several roughly $2K Ti bikes. You can add Airborne and Douglas to the ones mentioned earlier. You could take a couple of Litespeeds (Firenze versus a Veneto would be interesting), a couple of Airbornes(Valkyrie and Zeppelin), Douglas, Zion, Habanero and any others that come to mind. Be curious to see what, if anything, the extra dough buys you.Heck, I'd like to do the road test myself :D

Douglas and many others are generics made by Litespeed. Litespeed no longer makes Zions.

A real comparison would be between Litespeed, Airborne and Morati but I will tell you, imo, there is a reason Litespeed is a premier Ti builder. It isn't hype.

Ya think because its a ti litespeed for 2000 grand? Make me a short list of other complete ti road bikes for $2000 or less and we will compare.

Buy a Ti frame here for ~$630.00:

www.titaniumsports.com

...then buy a complete Campagnolo Veloce build kit here for ~$765.00:

www.repartocorse.com

...and buy a fork for ~$80.00 here:

www.performancebike.com/shop/Profile.cfm?SKU=17144&Store=Bike

...and take it to the LBS and have them build it for ~$100.00.

Or save and build it yourself using the Barnett's Manuals available on this forum. You'll probably have to pay to have the headset cups pressed in and the fork crown race installed, but that should only be ~$20.00.

Voila! Ok, it doesn't come as a complete bike, but it will be when you're done. And IMHO, you will be getting high quality materials and workmanship throughout. Before you're critical of the quality, check the list of who they build for.

Oh, and by the way, for those that don't know what size to buy, go through Reparto Corse's sizing program online before you buy the frame.

as with anything, you pretty much get what you pay for.

as with anything, you pretty much get what you pay for.

I ride one of these with a Sumitomo Ti fork(no longer available) instead of the Performance CF fork, and it is a pretty damn nice ride. The workmanship is excellent, and the alignment is right on.

You forgot:
Rims, spokes, tires, tubes, seatpost, saddle, stem, handlebars, bar tape, and cables.

That's gonna add a buck or two.

You forgot:
Rims, spokes, tires, tubes, seatpost, saddle, stem, handlebars, bar tape, and cables.

That's gonna add a buck or two.

All the above is in the build kit; wheels come pre-built.

You forgot:
Rims, spokes, tires, tubes, seatpost, saddle, stem, handlebars, bar tape, and cables.

That's gonna add a buck or two.
:lol:

Veloce is 105 equivalent, not Ultegra.
It has a 1" headtube. 1-1/8" is the standard, that's one reason it's cheaper.

It looks like a fine bike, it's just that "you get what you pay for".

:lol:

Veloce is 105 equivalent, not Ultegra.
It has a 1" headtube. 1-1/8" is the standard, that's one reason it's cheaper.

It looks like a fine bike, it's just that "you get what you pay for".

Well, shokhead's only prerequisite was that it be sub-$2000.00. This is. If you want an Ultegra build kit, get one from Excel for ~$1100.00, and you'll be around ~$1900.00, unless you build it yourself.

Personally, I think Litespeed's Firenze is a pretty good looking bike for a variety of riders. If I wanted a beater racing bike, it would work. If I wanted an all around day-in, day-out bike that I could use for centuries, it would work to.

OK. I didn't read all of the options:
Build kit $600 - and if you read the fine print, you will find these additional costs.
Cassette lock ring $20
Headset $30
Seatpost $70
Pre built wheels $160

Bronze kit (hbar, stem,saddle, stem, tires, etc.) $160
Frame $630
Fork $80
LBS build $100

Total $1850 +any shipping costs. Not a bad deal.

I got my Firenze with full Ultegra triple, assembled, adjusted, water bottle cages, bottles, and free tune-ups for 1 year, for $1845.00. Still looks a damn good deal to me.

Repartocorse.com is definitely not offering the deals they were a year ago when they first came online.

I bought my Veloce build kit with everything, pre-built wheels with FIR rims, American Classic seatpost, and everything needed to build a bare frame for exactly $599.99 inc. shipping. I think it was Phat Basturd on this forum that got one of the same kits from them. Oh well...

I got my frame last year on sale for $560.00 and the build kit for $600.00. I paid $200.00 for the Ti fork, so my total cost was $1410.00. True story.

Well, shokhead's only prerequisite was that it be sub-$2000.00. This is. If you want an Ultegra build kit, get one from Excel for ~$1100.00, and you'll be around ~$1900.00, unless you build it yourself.

Personally, I think Litespeed's Firenze is a pretty good looking bike for a variety of riders. If I wanted a beater racing bike, it would work. If I wanted an all around day-in, day-out bike that I could use for centuries, it would work to.

Yeah, if you polished the Firenze it would almost look identical to the Classic.
How is a $2k bike a beater race bike?:p

OK. I didn't read all of the options:
Build kit $600 - and if you read the fine print, you will find these additional costs.
Cassette lock ring $20
Headset $30
Seatpost $70
Pre built wheels $160

Bronze kit (hbar, stem,saddle, stem, tires, etc.) $160
Frame $630
Fork $80
LBS build $100

Total $1850 +any shipping costs. Not a bad deal.

I got my Firenze with full Ultegra triple, assembled, adjusted, water bottle cages, bottles, and free tune-ups for 1 year, for $1845.00. Still looks a damn good deal to me.
I'll take a litespeed ti beater bike anytime.

How is a $2k bike a beater race bike?:p

Well, if I'm paying for the bike(and I have to pay for all my bikes), I'm not going to take a Colnago C-50 with full Campagnolo Record componentry into a race(don't have one of those, but you get the idea).

I'm going to ride something that I can afford to replace when I ride over a pile of bodies and bikes after someone touched his brakes at the wrong time or after someone rolled up on or got tapped by another rider's rear wheel.

The Litespeed Firenze will probably come out of most accidents straight, and all you'll likely have to replace are wheels, maybe a fork, and some components.

Disclaimer: No offense was intended towards owners of this bike. A beater racing bike is one that will get you to the next race.;)

Returning to the original question, should you buy the Firenze over the Tuscany, I have a couple of comments. I race a 2002 Arenberg with some upgraded components, and I don’t think that the bike performs any worse than stiffer-more race oriented frame designs. The Firenze does look a lot like the Arenberg, and I’m wondering if there are any changes to the tubes at all. I actually like the non-integrated headset on the new model, but at the same time, I cannot complain about the FSA HS. What most people forget to mention when they tell you all about weight and stiffness is the wheels. Having great wheels on the Firenze will drastically improve your riding experience despite the SLIGHTLY reduced stiffness. Most modern bikes have negligible differences in their ride characteristics, so if money is somewhat important to you, get the Firenze with a nice set of wheels. I would only choose the Tuscany if I found a 2003 discounted model.

Cheers

Hello..I read your post. I have a frameset called a Macalu. It was built in 2001 for Excel Sports by Litespeed. It is the Arenburg. It is a 57cm frame with Reynolds Ouza Pro Fork. I would be willing to sell it as frame/fork or as complete bike with Ultegra for half the price you will be buying the same new package for. I only trained on it for less than a thousand miles due to another bike coming my way. It is a nice ride..never crashed or dinged. If interested email me or call at 710-647-2487. I live in Colorado and if you are interested might be able to work out a viewing if you race in Colorado. Here is a digi....Brian

I posted my number wrong its 719-647-2487. ps I agree that a killer set of wheels makes a huge difference too. I will make you a deal that will allow you to purchase a new set of Mavic Kysiriums and still be under 2k for the whole ride

If you look at the Litespeed website they give you stiffness ratings and stiffness / weight ratings.
Here are their ratings.
Tuscany stiffness - 4.6
Firenze stiffness - 4.3

Tuscany stiffness/weight - 4.4
Firenze stiffness/weight - 4.3

Tuscany ride quality - 4.7
Firenze ride quality - 4.5

The numbers show that the Tuscany is a but stiffer and the ride quality is a bit higher. I have a Firenze and love it. It is hard to imagine the ride quality being any better. :eek:

Since you are used to a Tuscany, I would say that one test ride on a Firenze will tell you if there is a difference. If you can tell one, definitely get the Tuscany. If not, maybe save some $$$. I think that I would have problems downgrading, even if only psychologically.

It is their "entry level" frame. This is basically a fact that they use round tubing rather than the exotic (expensive) shaped tubing that is used on other models. The down tube and main tube are oversized. The seat and chain stays have the classic Litespeed curves. Really, nothing entry level about it.

I am 6ft 197lbs. I don't notice any flex. I do notice how smooth it is and how it bolts up the hills.


I test rode a Frienze a couple times along with the bike I ended up buying. It rode smooth, good on bumbs as ti is, accelerated nicely ( I own a litespeed ti) but not a Frienze. But when it came to fast cornering it's hard to describe other than it seemed that in the radius front was ahead of the rear, like the rear was on the outside of the radius and just not tracking in unison with the front. Not feeling of confidence at all (I hate road rash!) The 5200 was 100%dead on the money. I was disappointed and the LBS said Litespeed is expensive in general and you have to spend over 3 grand to get one that handles as good. I generally find that expensive things are usually expensive for good reason .

It's F-I-R-E-N-Z-E. I have no idea where you get "frienza" from.

So litespeed makes an affordable ti bike and most are ragg'n on it.What am i missing?Is it that you want a 2000 ti bike{like i said,its a short list of others** to be like a 5000 one?Maybe its the CD owners pissed because its litespeeds cheapest ti that better then anything CD has? Of course we know that ti beats alum anytime for a nice ride.

Hey, I gotta agree w/ you on that shokhead. at almost $2000, you can get a CD R1000 or for an additional $200 (maybe less if you can negotiate) you can get into a Ti Litespeed. The ride is better, it would last quite a while, it's a good price. If you're going into collegiate cycling, my guess is that you're not going to be able to replace the bike for a few years unless you're a trust fund kid(and I'm not appologizing for this comment if you are.) Anyways, for $2000, you can get into a great bike, made by a very respected frame maker and it will defilnitely last you 4 years of cycling in college. I don't know if I can say that about a Cannondale if you're putting a lot of training miles on it. I'd say...go w/ the Firenze if you want to save money, but I'm happy w/ my Tuscany and it sounded as if you were also with yours. Litespeed either way,

Litespeed GET technology is a marketing ploy. When you compare Litespeed to
Serrota, Bianchi, even LeMond ti bikes, you will find none of these ti bike manufactures use the GET technology. If you like blocky looking bikes with a lot of welds then stay with GET technology. I test rode and did all the research and I think that the Litespeed brand is over rated. Just remember the less welds on a piece of metal (bicycle tubes) = higher strength and fatigue life. The GET tubes have welds down the length of tube. This allows for higher chance of weld failure and mis-allignment of the frame as opposed to a ti tube without.

GET Technology- "Don't believe the Hype"- Flava Flav

Like 853 tubing?

Litespeed GET technology is a marketing ploy. When you compare Litespeed to
Serrota, Bianchi, even LeMond ti bikes, you will find none of these ti bike manufactures use the GET technology. If you like blocky looking bikes with a lot of welds then stay with GET technology. I test rode and did all the research and I think that the Litespeed brand is over rated. Just remember the less welds on a piece of metal (bicycle tubes) = higher strength and fatigue life. The GET tubes have welds down the length of tube. This allows for higher chance of weld failure and mis-allignment of the frame as opposed to a ti tube without.

GET Technology- "Don't believe the Hype"- Flava Flav

Exactly who is the one hyping, you or Litespeed?
Serrota Ti is made by Litespeed!
Understanding how 6/4 and 3/2.5 tubes are made...maybe you should read up on that.
Weld failure and frame mis-alignment :lol: that is hilarious!
I'm bumping this thread and coming back to this post when I have more time.

Litespeed GET technology is a marketing ploy. When you compare Litespeed to
Serrota, Bianchi, even LeMond ti bikes, you will find none of these ti bike manufactures use the GET technology. If you like blocky looking bikes with a lot of welds then stay with GET technology. I test rode and did all the research and I think that the Litespeed brand is over rated. Just remember the less welds on a piece of metal (bicycle tubes) = higher strength and fatigue life. The GET tubes have welds down the length of tube. This allows for higher chance of weld failure and mis-allignment of the frame as opposed to a ti tube without.

GET Technology- "Don't believe the Hype"- Flava Flav
What did u use as research.I'd like to read up on it to.

Hi guys,
I have been dancing around this debate for months. It's not important to me, for one thing. And it involves a healthy dose of passion..... I been riding bikes since Fred Flintsone was riding his Columbia with rock wheels. I can remember when titanium was called unobtainium because you couldn't get it.
Bikes today are so good, they are amazing.
If a person like Slick Rick (you do remember Rick, don't you guys? we were supposed to be helping him) is buying a bike for general riding and racing and it has to be within a budget...... that provides some boundaries. My impulse was to tell him to find some way to get another Tuscany. That was out of bounds.... I didn't really see how he was going to get into a race worthy ti bike for that kind of money. That would make me want to suggest another brand. However, he showed no interest in aluminum. I didn't want to be the guy to tell him to get a Cannondale.... The Tuscany is something special, I feel it's one of Litespeeds best efforts. So I said nothing.
I did make a comment that I would like to see a comprehensive review of the sporty ti bikes; but I dodged the bullet. I'd like to make a comment now. Turning a thread into a slugfest ruins that thread as a vehicle to help people. It also typically degenrates from discussing bikes we love to blasting somebody for saying 'over rated' instead of something like 'cost effective'.
I wonder if Rick has left the building....

I've read all the postings and did some test rides. My gut is telling me to cough up some funds and replace the Tuscany. I probably won't be partying 3-4 nights a week if I'm riding in college anyways! I tried out the Firenze and it rode very similar but had a slighty looser feel to it. I also tried out the Serotta Legend and a Merlin Ti. There was very little difference in anything but price. Those Serottas are very nice looking but I don't know any guys in the local juniors circuits that have 'em and I doubt any college kids have 'em either. So to put part of this thread to rest, I'm going to go back w/ the Tuscany.

Enjoy it.

Like 853 tubing?

http://www.reynolds-cycle.com/internet/index.htm


This is Reynolds seamless Titanium. This is the material my bicycle is constructed of (3.25) double butted. Please take a look.

.....Serrota Ti is made by Litespeed!......

And where exactly did you get that piece of information? In all the years that I owned Serottas, and in all the years I've been on the Serotta forum, I've never heard that statement! Does Ben Serotta know this?

Litespeed makes Serotta's and even Spectrum's ti bikes. OOOOHHH sacriledge!
Serotta's are not Litespeeds since the geometry and tubes are different.
I guess now you know.