Bicycle Mechanics - Two brakes, one lever

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zoeglassjd
08-26-08, 11:41 AM
So, I have a friend with a special need. She only is able to pull a lever with her right hand, the other hand she can steer with, but not pull (it is a "deformity" from birth). She has an old ladies cruiser and is wondering if I can set up both brakes on one lever.
I have a few ideas how to go about doing this, but I thought I would throw out the project here and see if others have some notions of the best way to do this. Coaster brake would be a last resort (her preference).
Thanks.
z
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Dual-Pull-MTB-Brake-Lever-Pulls-2-Cables_W0QQitemZ250286210051QQcmdZViewItem
Do a search for dual pull brake lever on google and you will find other options.
DannoXYZ
08-26-08, 11:52 AM
http://www.bikeparts.com/productinfo/Problem-Solvers-2-Way-Cable-Doubler-62220-50471.html
The BMX market also has a tonne of cable-splitters as well. The main problems I've had with setting up bikes like this is the danger of using even cable-pulls on both brakes. It's fine for the initial pull, but as you need more and more braking-force, such as in a panic stop, the modulation must increase pressure on the front and decrease pressure on the rear brake. The rear-tyre ends up locking up at only 50% of maximum deceleration and you end up losing control. So if theoretically, total tyre-grip allows you to stop from 20mph in 30-ft, without modulation control, you end up taking 60ft because the rear-tyre grip dictates the maximum deceleration possible. You end up leaving A LOT of braking-force from the as potential unused.
I've also had issue with people crashing as well. Unless you're going perfectly in a straight line and upright, grabbing both brakes evenly while leaned over causes the rear tyre to wash out and you end up coming out of the corner backwards. :(
Since 100% of the braking-force comes from the front-tyre under maximum-braking anyway, I suggest your friend practice braking with the front-brake only and learning to modulate and increase its force more and more.
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Dual-Pull-MTB-Brake-Lever-Pulls-2-Cables_W0QQitemZ250286210051QQcmdZViewItem
Do a search for dual pull brake lever on google and you will find other options.
That's an interesting lever. Is there a difference in leverages between the two cables?
Thumpic
08-26-08, 02:36 PM
Coaster brake would be a last resort (her preference)z
you probably have told her; but she needs the coaster brake too; just for the sake of safety. Thinking about it; I don't know that I could set her up with only one way of physically using the brakes. I am guessing; but she probably counts on her "good" hand for dexterity. If she's scratching her nose; adjusting her glasses; flipping off a hipster...and suddenly she needs brakes; she's SOL.....just a thought.....
That's an interesting lever. Is there a difference in leverages between the two cables?
Do not know, never used one. Just trying to help find a solution. It would be a $20 gamble on his part, but it seems with the dual barrel adjusters, that it would not be too hard to find a decent balance for front/rear braking forces.
Do not know, never used one. Just trying to help find a solution. It would be a $20 gamble on his part, but it seems with the dual barrel adjusters, that it would not be too hard to find a decent balance for front/rear braking forces.
It's impossible to find the right balance. If the rear brake engages at all under moderate braking, it will always lock up the rear wheel under maximum braking. That's not an acceptable situation.
A bike with only a front brake will stop almost as fast as a bike with 2 brakes. The best solution for one-handed baking is a front brake plus a coaster brake. The second best is 2 separate levers on the same side of the bars. Use the rear brake for back-up and on long downhills, and use the front for most stopping.
em
Retro Grouch
08-26-08, 03:58 PM
you probably have told her; but she needs the coaster brake too; just for the sake of safety. Thinking about it; I don't know that I could set her up with only one way of physically using the brakes. I am guessing; but she probably counts on her "good" hand for dexterity. If she's scratching her nose; adjusting her glasses; flipping off a hipster...and suddenly she needs brakes; she's SOL.....just a thought.....
Come on! She's lived that way her whole life. She knows what she's capable of doing one handed.
Retro Grouch
08-26-08, 03:59 PM
you probably have told her; but she needs the coaster brake too; just for the sake of safety. Thinking about it; I don't know that I could set her up with only one way of physically using the brakes. I am guessing; but she probably counts on her "good" hand for dexterity. If she's scratching her nose; adjusting her glasses; flipping off a hipster...and suddenly she needs brakes; she's SOL.....just a thought.....
Come on! She's lived that way her whole life. She knows what she's capable of doing one handed.
BCRider
08-26-08, 07:09 PM
Danno hit the nail on the head a few posts back. There's a serious need to be able to control the braking effort at each end of the bike to cover off all the scenarios. It's not all just about being able to use the greater effort on the front during an emergency though. Special cases where the need to use the rear more strongly or in isolation do happen. Like during wet riding or in slippery conditions due to ice or dirt or sand on the street or even spilled diesel fuel (can you say "slipperier than juicy snot"?). In such special cases it's nice to be able to use ONLY the rear or at least mostly the rear and no or very little front.
So I'd have to say that the best combo is a coaster on the rear and use the one good hand to control the front brake. And with coaster brake versions of multispeed hubs available there's no reason why she needs to be stuck with a basic beach cruiser either. A nice SS MTB or SS track frame could be set up with a coaster brake internal gear hub and V or disc front. In fact the disc front and internal brake rear would be an amazing sloppy winter weather bike.
BCRider
08-26-08, 07:13 PM
Eddy has an interesting idea as well. Assuming she has the hand size for this to work.....
Two overlapping levers so that when applied they both engage. The fingers laying across both levers at the same time. The front under the first knuckle of the fingers and the rear lever down more towards the tips. By altering the finger pressure she can pull harder on the front while easing off the rear down by the finger tips. The rest of the time she can work it so there's more or less even pressure on both.
If she has a really small hand I don't know if this is really practical though.
operator
08-26-08, 07:30 PM
Two girls one cup?
Michel Gagnon
08-26-08, 08:35 PM
I think the lever shown in post 2 works only on the right side... which is what she needs anyway. Make sure the lever you choose works with the types of brakes she has (canti vs v-brakes). If she uses drop bars, there is only one model of levers that I'm aware of, the Dia Compe 287-T, which is made for 2 rim brakes on the right and one (drum) brake on the left. It might be out of production, I don't know.
That being said, both the lever and the cable splitter have their advantages and drawbacks.
Lever
– More expensive and very limited model selection. You'd have to make sure, amongst other things, that it doesn't interfere with her shifters, and if she has a small or not too powerful good hand, it might be a problem.
– Safer because there are two cables all the way.
Cable Splitter
– Cheaper: She probably has the levers. The splitters/adjusters aren't cheap.
– More choices for levers
– Less safe, as you have only one cable leaving the brake lever. If the cable breaks between the lever and the splitter, there is no other brake left, except Flintstone style.
Issues
Braking will work and be safe, but she will have to be aware of a few specific issues:
– As Sheldon Brown explained more than once, braking on a hard dry surface with the front brake only is as good as anything. But when riding on wet or oily pavement, the rear brake becomes more important, and it should almost be the sole brake on ice. With that in mind, I would recommend setting the brakes aggressively or conservatively depending on where/when she rides:
- 2/3 front for fast riding on asphalt in dry weather
- 1/2 - 1/2 if she rides a lot on gravel dust bike paths or if she is more of a casual-speed cyclist
– You need barrel adjusters on each cable and they need to be adjusted frequently. As the front pads wear faster than the rear ones, the front barrel has to be "extended" to keep adequate brake pressure in front.
– Even though brake cables rarely break (my experience anyways), they should be inspected frequently (say once or twice a year depending on mileage). It's even more imporant in her case as if the lever breaks or if the cable breaks (with a splitter), she's out of luck.
Thumpic
08-26-08, 10:34 PM
Come on! She's lived that way her whole life. She knows what she's capable of doing one handed.
So? People gripe and preach about folks going to only 1 brake on the fixie scene??? Most of those fixie folks are only mentally challenged...they usually have two good hands. Because a person is challenged in a certain way all their life, does not change what makes sense and is prudent.
imo...she needs an additional way of braking........
Thumpic
08-26-08, 10:37 PM
Even though brake cables rarely break (my experience anyways), they should be inspected frequently (say once or twice a year depending on mileage). It's even more imporant in her case as if the lever breaks or if the cable breaks (with a splitter), she's out of luck.
an additional coaster brake solves this issue................we're talking about safety............This person (with only one option for braking) is asking for an injury......
the_mac
08-26-08, 11:05 PM
how about mounting a regular lever in the standard position to control the front brake, and mounting an aero-brake (like for tt bars) at the end of the bar, with the lever pointing inwards for the rear (this way the cable runs along the bars, towards the stem).
Braking is accomplished by using the first two fingers for the front, the last two for the rear (or all of it on the front for a panic stop). Modulation on both brakes can be controlled individually and at the same time.
zoeglassjd
08-27-08, 06:10 AM
These are all very helpful. I am leaning toward installing a coaster brake (although I know little about them since my last BMX in 8th grade). This requires a special hub, right? Her bike is an internal 3 speed. I think this is problematic, no?
zoeglassjd
08-27-08, 06:11 AM
Also, I imagine she will very much be a fairweather, MUP type of rider. I am tentative putting someone on a bike with only a front brake, but for a slow, dry ride maybe this works.
bikeman715
08-27-08, 09:55 AM
there are 3 speeds hubs out there with a build in coaster brake so if you switch out the hub or wheel . I too have a friend who doesn't have use of a arm/hand and I use a dual brake lever for her and to this day she has no problems with it or her braking. I do adjust it for her on a monthly bases.
veganboyjosh
08-27-08, 10:25 AM
this same idea has come up in a conversation i had before with regards to freakbike building, and i wondered if you could modify/use out of the box a grip shifter as a brake lever. i realize the grip doesn't have a sprint in it, to put it back into "starting" position, but the brake springs should take care of that...
Thumpic
08-27-08, 10:35 AM
this same idea has come up in a conversation i had before with regards to freak bike building, and i wondered if you could modify/use out of the box a grip shifter as a brake lever. i realize the grip doesn't have a sprint in it, to put it back into "starting" position, but the brake springs should take care of that...
I'd be concerned about compromising my steering control while trying to turn and twist the grip for braking at the same time....especially if my other hand might not be too reliable.
Mr. Underbridge
08-27-08, 12:14 PM
Coaster brake is a good option. That's probably the best bet if you can install it.
Failing that, the only reason she absoluetely needs 2 brakes is redundancy for emergency situations, no? Because as mentioned, front-only braking is usually the best option for people with 2 fully functional hands anyway.
For emergency stopping, I might go with a modified lever or paddle that you could operate from your foot, maybe mounted on the chainstay. Might not have great modulation, but since it's the rear brake all you'd do is skid a bit (instead of doing an endo), and that's preferable to not having brakes.
Another option would be to mount 2 levers on the same bar. Depending on what type of bar, you could have one brake under and out of the way of the other lever, or at a different position (if it was a trekking or cruiser type bar). The first would be preferable if you could find two appropriate levers, as all she'd have to do is move her fingers a bit.
Good luck whichever way you go.
DannoXYZ
08-27-08, 12:37 PM
Another option would be to mount 2 levers on the same bar. Depending on what type of bar, you could have one brake under and out of the way of the other lever, or at a different position (if it was a trekking or cruiser type bar). The first would be preferable if you could find two appropriate levers, as all she'd have to do is move her fingers a bit.THAT just gave me an idea! A balance-bar is used to connect two brake master-cylinders on race cars and the pedal pushes somewhere on that bar in between the two. Split 50/50 in the middle and you get 50/50 front/rear distribution. Slide the contact point somewhere closer to the other end and you get more braking from one end, like 75/25 f/r. So you can connect the two levers in a way that splits the lever-squeeze force unevenly to operate the front-brake more.
However, that still doesn't solve the issue of a dynamic-split based upon deceleration rate. At moderate decelerations, you'd want a 50/50 split. At maximum-braking, you'll want 100/0 split. And under adverse grip conditions, you'd want something like 25/75. Damn hard to devise a mechanical method that works as good as a human brain.
zoeglassjd
08-27-08, 12:49 PM
OK, this may receive varied responses, but I'll throw the question out as I am unsure how I would answer the question (and several have already alluded to it):
Would you set up a friend (adult, late twenties) who is going to ride only in dry weather, at a slow pace on MUP or low traffic neighborhoods with only a front brake?
Thumpic
08-27-08, 01:03 PM
OK, this may receive varied responses, but I'll throw the question out as I am unsure how I would answer the question (and several have already alluded to it):
Would you set up a friend (adult, late twenties) who is going to ride only in dry weather, at a slow pace on MUP or low traffic neighborhoods with only a front brake?
I'm dense...........MUP?
If that friend has no physical limitations.... I don't see a problem. Only in the event of a total failure in the brake or getting caught on a wet patch (rain, sprinkler, etc.) and needing to hit the brakes; would another brake be needed.
If that person had effective use of only 1 hand.....no.
San Rensho
08-27-08, 01:54 PM
OK, this may receive varied responses, but I'll throw the question out as I am unsure how I would answer the question (and several have already alluded to it):
Would you set up a friend (adult, late twenties) who is going to ride only in dry weather, at a slow pace on MUP or low traffic neighborhoods with only a front brake?
Yes, thats the only way anyone should ride. I race and I have trained myself through racing, to only use the front brake. The rear brake has essentially no braking power even in a moderate braking situation. It can only get you in trouble because anything other than the lightest use of the rear will lead to a locked rear wheel with disatrous results.
Its important to train yourself to use only the front brake because in a panic situation, you will always revert to your training by instinct. If you train yourself to use the rear brake, you will use it in a panic situation with no good effect.
The only time you need a rear brake is in extremely slippery situations, like lots of loss gravel on a downhill stretch because using the front would lead to locking the front tire which is an instant down, but other than that, the rear brake is essentially useless.
bikeman715
08-27-08, 02:48 PM
no to your question,we don't need her to go over the handlebar. I would do what I suggest earlier. she does need a rear brake.
Mr. Underbridge
08-27-08, 04:02 PM
The only time you need a rear brake is in extremely slippery situations, like lots of loss gravel on a downhill stretch because using the front would lead to locking the front tire which is an instant down, but other than that, the rear brake is essentially useless.
Agreed, except for the case of failure - you do need some form of redundancy. That's why I advocated just throwing on a second brake lever somewhere within reach for just in case.
maddmaxx
08-27-08, 05:27 PM
Yes, thats the only way anyone should ride. I race and I have trained myself through racing, to only use the front brake. The rear brake has essentially no braking power even in a moderate braking situation. It can only get you in trouble because anything other than the lightest use of the rear will lead to a locked rear wheel with disatrous results.
Its important to train yourself to use only the front brake because in a panic situation, you will always revert to your training by instinct. If you train yourself to use the rear brake, you will use it in a panic situation with no good effect.
The only time you need a rear brake is in extremely slippery situations, like lots of loss gravel on a downhill stretch because using the front would lead to locking the front tire which is an instant down, but other than that, the rear brake is essentially useless.
I don't think that I would like to come down out of the high hills with only a front rim brake. Very easy to cook the front tube if you couldn't use some rear every now and then to let the front cool.
HED seems to think from their research on tire pressures that TDF riders hit 300 to 400 degf on both rims during long downhills in the mountain stages. They must be using both brakes with some degree of modulation.
This is my world since a 1993 motorcycle accident. I brake from the right side only and use cable splitters. They work well. I ride as often as I can and I'm not crash free but no crash can be attributed to faulty or misapplied brakes.
I don't mean to come on harsh but some of this talk about riding cruisers and relying on coaster brakes is excessive hand wringing and not well informed (be thankful you're not as well informed on this subject as I am).
If the lady prefers a cruiser and a coaster brake, by all means but it is very possible to ride a high performance bike with one brake lever. As I said at the top. I've never crashed b/c of braking nor have I ever taken anybody else down.
If you don't use splitters you can also ride well with a good front brake only. Somewhat ironicaly, it was motorcycle riding that tught me to use and not fear a strong front brake.
LeMond Maillot Jaune. The Kelly Take-Off does the FD
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll133/w_judd/LeMond2.jpg
Cannondale set up as above but the Take Off is "backwards to allow for more "aero" cable routing. (Still gotta pose :) )
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll133/w_judd/Cdale4.jpg
Michel Gagnon
08-27-08, 06:37 PM
The "two levers" idea can even be achieved with regular levers. I have it shown here (http://www.mgagnon.net/velo/potence-double.en.shtml) (click on the top picture to enlarge). Here is what I have on the tandem :
– the right lever controls my front rim brake
– the main left lever controls the drum brake on the rear wheel
– the other lever, placed slightly down and pointing in, controls the rear rim brake.
I installed a third brake because slowing down or stopping a fully loaded tandem + trailercycle could overheat brakes. However, I typically use the front brake and the drum brake (the latter especially for slowing down), but I can even use both rear brakes if I stretch my fingers accordingly.
BCRider
08-27-08, 06:55 PM
The two lever idea could be done even easier and with closer spacing using MTB levers.
As for riding with only one brake I'd have to say that it's fine if she will only be out in dry weather. But if there's gravel paths on the rides then suddenly the need for a rear brake comes back.
Looking at the Shimano Nexus internal geared hubs I see a number of them with coaster brakes. So getting a decent drive train and still have a coaster brake is not going to be all that hard. I didn't look at the other brand options but I suspect there's coaster brake options in those lines as well.
So between the one good hand and the feet on the pedals she can have all the controls that anyone else enjoys.
If the rider isn't very experienced and will only ride intermittently on an MUP, a coaster brake would probably be a good idea from a common sense perspective. Added insurance for someone who isn't confidence. If someone rides a lot (is an avid cyclist) and is used to dealing with any handicap they have, they'll probably figure out what works on their own by trying different things and finding a good fit that they are comfortable with...
Panthers007
01-24-09, 05:58 PM
Who says a hand-brake lever must be operated by hand? What if it were mounted on a part of the frame that your friend could operate by using her foot or her thigh? For the rear brake, of course. That's something to mull over.
Happy Trails!
I've been watching this thread with interest. I too, know of someone who can only use one hand for braking and have also contemplated solutions and ideas for this dilemma. I say dilemma because it's obvious that braking on a bicycle is not as simple as it first seems.
There's passive riding (where the rider just sits on the saddle) and then there's dynamic riding where the rider is standing on the pedals and moving around to adjust the center of gravity while braking or cornering. There's braking in the wet, slippery or loose gravel surfaces, then there's braking in dry grippy flat surfaces. There's braking on level surfaces and there's braking on an incline (downhill). What's even more vital is when braking has to be done while cornering instead of in a straight line (which cannot always be preempted).
Braking complexity becomes more apparent when one considers mountain bike or BMX riding (as we do), where wheel-locking is part and parcel of normal braking in loose and unpredictable surfaces. If braking was done to a point where wheel lock could occur, a rear wheel lock is the lesser evil and surprisingly controllable and even useful for deliberate drifting. An unanticipated front wheel lock on the other hand is fine if the handlebars and the bike is going straight, but in cornering it'll slam the rider and bike into the ground within a blink of an eye.
No doubt that the front wheel brake is the most efficient in stopping a bike. But it is not necessarily the most practical option for every situation. With all things considered and with only one brake possible, he still uses the rear brake only - as a compromise... as dirt riders normally shift body weight rearwards to stop the rear brake from locking.
But this is not the case for the OP's friend's situation. As she is not likely to be pushing the braking envelop to high-performance limits, I think even a 50-50 cable spliter between the front and rear brakes (activated by one lever) would be more than acceptable. A front brake lever and a rear coaster combination should also be acceptable for recreational or commuter riding. It would depend on her preference and skills in the end of the day.
.
^ BTW, with a single lever cable splitter, you can adjust the front/rear bias by adjusting one brake to engage slightly earlier than the other. The brake that engages earlier will have the stronger bias when both of the brakes eventually engage.
^ I suppose you can also pre-set brake bias by using soft and hard compound pads between the front and rear wheels. You decide which go where...
I'm dense...........MUP?
Multi-Use Path, a "road" that's intended for both bikers and pedestrians.
^^ Oh, I forgot to mention one other option that I didn't bother exploring because it could be "iffy" for dynamic acceleration (standing up) and jumping. It might be OK for passive recreational riding (seated).
If your friend can still manage to grip and twist with her "bad" hand... you could try experimenting with a motorcycle "throttle-grip" assembly as a brake cable actuator. First place I would go to for a cheap trial unit is the local motorcycle wreckers. Get a motocross unit because it's simple and without ignition and light buttons. If you decide to mount it on the right you should get a twist-down brake, and you should get a twist-up brake if mounted on the left.
I would cut the movable grip casing to about a third of its original length, and install a normal grip on the outer remaining two-thirds for an added safety feature (just like a grip shifter).
I have no previous R&D data so please proceed at your own risk...
.
JohnDThompson
01-25-09, 07:41 AM
I've used these levers to set up bikes for one-armed riders:
http://os2.dhs.org/~john/mafac-dual-pull1.jpg
http://os2.dhs.org/~john/mafac-dual-pull2.jpg
frankenmike
01-25-09, 10:09 AM
Recently we set up a bike for a woman with only one good arm. Her bad arm is dexterous enough to hold the handlebar, but not for anything else. We used the same cable splitter pictured in post #30. This was on a cruiser bike, which she only uses for slow, casual riding around the neighborhood, so there is very minimal danger of not having enough braking power. We also put both shifters on one side, using a twist shifter for the rear cluster and a stem mount shifter with a long lever for the front(kind of looks like a miniature stick shift, knob and all). She loves it.
tatfiend
01-25-09, 02:23 PM
There is a quite active local rider here in town with only one arm. He has both brake levers and all shifting, all on one side of the bar. As I recall two separate brake levers on the one side. I have not examined his bike closeup to see exactly how everything is arranged.
There is no need for any splittter on a road bike. Regardless of whether you set it up 50/50, or with a large front bias, you will skid the rear wheel under hard braking. Even if you could set up up to brake well enough, you still have the problem that a failure of one of the cables could reduce the effectiveness of the remaining brake. I've ridden for 40 years, and raced for 5 of those, and I never, not once, needed to use both brakes at the same time. Set it up with 2 brake levers, one for each brake, one on the drops, one on the top.
em
ride a brakeless fixed bike!!
seriously though, my single-speed beater/commuter only has a front brake due to an accident about 2 years ago. i never bothered to replace it, and ive never missed it.
i ride 150m a week on it and it works fine for me. the only time i have come off becuase of braking is when there was serious amounts of black ice, but i shouldnt have been riding that on slick 23c 700's.
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