Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - pacer owners: fenders?

to all surly pacer owners out there, what type of fenders do you use?

i'm wondering if some full (and shiny) honjo-stye fenders would fit?

and does it really have clearance for 28's w/ full fenders? the surly site says it does, but word on the street is that it's a really tight fit with 28's.

thx!!

It doesn't seem like metal fenders would fit any less well than plastic ones. In fact, there's a good chance they'd be easier to squeeze in since they're thinner and the bolt-thru mounting should take up less room than the clips that come with the plastic abominations ...oops.. "fenders". I've got Honjos on my Gunnar Crosshairs rando bike, and absoltively, posilutely love 'em.

SP

metal feders are thicker, so in fact they do have a bit less clearance. i am talking about the folded bit around the edges

to all surly pacer owners out there, what type of fenders do you use?

i'm wondering if some full (and shiny) honjo-stye fenders would fit?

and does it really have clearance for 28's w/ full fenders? the surly site says it does, but word on the street is that it's a really tight fit with 28's.



thx!!

what brakes can you run on that? shimano long reach or equivalent?
i run narrow honjo's on my if club racer (http://picasaweb.google.com/mike.beganyi/IndependentFabricationsTiClubRacer) - shimano long reach brakes.
if i pull the fenders i can run 32's, maybe a bit larger. i'm running campy ergo's with the shimano brakes - so i can open the brakes wide to slide tires in and out.


conti 4 season gps fit really well.
schwalbe 28's are closer.

i think spokenword runs gb 30's on his ANT with shimano long reach.


i'm assuming that the interior of the brakes are the limiting geometry...


you still considering a caseroll? i think you can run 28s or 30s with fenders.

I have run Planet Bike road fenders with 23mm tires on my Pacer, no issues.

what brakes can you run on that? shimano long reach or equivalent?

for the pacer surly recommends standard-reach brakes, up to 57mm - would that allow something like these honjos? http://www.velo-orange.com/ho45hafe.html

the next size of honjos down only supports up to 26mm wheels, but i'd like to run 28's, although i could live with 26's.

if i have to go with skinnier plastic fenders i can live with that too..

for the pacer surly recommends standard-reach brakes, up to 57mm - would that allow something like these honjos? http://www.velo-orange.com/ho45hafe.html

the next size of honjos down only supports up to 26mm wheels, but i'd like to run 28's, although i could live with 26's.

if i have to go with skinnier plastic fenders i can live with that too..

standard reach brakes to 57mm? i thought those were the 'long reach'
but i guess they used to be... now they are called 'mid reach (http://aebike.com/page.cfm?PageID=30&action=details&sku=BR6612)'

i run the 47-57mm shimano brakes with 28s and the honjo 35mm narrows. works great - from the conti's which measure 27mm to the schwalbe's that measured a bit larger. true, you do not get the 'recommended' overlap on each side of the fender with the schwalbe's... but i've stayed plenty dry with these.

pretty sure spokenword has run gb 30s in there with those same fenders.

i don't think there is enough room when the brakes want to operate to get a larger fender in there. and i can't fit a pasela 32 in there (even though they don't make sense with my fenders) - just not enough room.

read this on velo orange. (http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2007/10/which-fenders-and-other-questions.html)


maybe a 650b wheel on the pacer with these brakes for a larger tire and larger fender? (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brake-calipers.html#55-73)

Rear fender clearance was the only thing that dissapointed me about my pacer. The fork seems to be designed for regular-reach brakes, while the rear bridge is positioned for short-reach brakes. I use regular-reach shimano calipers with 28mm conti gatorskins, which measure only 26mm. I could not fit 35mm honjo fender in the rear with satisfactory clearance. I even tried to hammer them down a bit: close but no cigar. I think I might cut the rear fender and fabricate reach-around-style brackets, or perhaps I will try SKS if people are having better luck with these...

what brakes can you run on that? shimano long reach or equivalent?
i run narrow honjo's on my if club racer (http://picasaweb.google.com/mike.beganyi/IndependentFabricationsTiClubRacer) - shimano long reach brakes.
if i pull the fenders i can run 32's, maybe a bit larger. i'm running campy ergo's with the shimano brakes - so i can open the brakes wide to slide tires in and out.


conti 4 season gps fit really well.
schwalbe 28's are closer.

i think spokenword runs gb 30's on his ANT with shimano long reach.


i'm assuming that the interior of the brakes are the limiting geometry...


you still considering a caseroll? i think you can run 28s or 30s with fenders.


My goodness but what a wonderful bike!
Thanks for the pics.

My goodness but what a wonderful bike!
Thanks for the pics.

thanks...!
more stuff here: www.littlecircles.blogspot.com

I've got 28mm T-Servs that just fit with SKS fenders. Debris scraping the inside of fender is common. I'd opt for a 25mm for more breathing room. Couple of pics and other thoughts on my blog (http://lockringnotincluded.blogspot.com/2008/03/snow-fenders-and-half-century.html). I've purposely kept it out of the mud with fenders installed cause it wouldn't be pretty.

metal feders are thicker, so in fact they do have a bit less clearance. i am talking about the folded bit around the edges

Or not. The folded edges on my Honjos are no thicker than my PB plastic fenders. And the rest of the fender is less than half as thick. Yes, I've measured them. With a caliper.

If you're using the right width fender for your tires, the thickness at the edges doesn't matter anyway.

SP

Bmike...

On a side note, What handlebars are those on the IF and how do you like the An Atomica compared to the brooks? Really nice bike btw!

Bmike...

On a side note, What handlebars are those on the IF and how do you like the An Atomica compared to the brooks? Really nice bike btw!

sold the an-atomica. always felt a bit too wide and it flared at the nose, rubbing the wrong way when i wore steet clothes (often) on long rides.

happy with a brooks b17 and a swallow.


handlebars are salsa bell laps... they flare - so in the 46cm wide they get really wide @ the drops. they also have a fairly deep drop. like them enough. thought about getting some nitto noodle's on there, but would need to replace the stem too...

I have an 06 Pacer.

I'm using the skinniest SKS fenders you can get (P35s I think, from memory?), with 23/25c Gatorskins. I reckon it would be very tight with 28s but I can see that it would be possible with careful adjustment.

Brakes are 06 Centaur FWIW.

thx, i'm still waiting on the honjos to come in.. but my new Grand Bois 28's are pretty fat, so it's gonna be a tight squeeze!

the honjos are 35mm wide, so i think they'll fit; at worst i'll just have to run 25's or 26's. (i hope)

I run Conti Four Season 28s with standard reach brakes and SKS P50 fenders with plenty of clearance.

The P50s get a little squeezed but not too bad.

I tried Planet Bike Cascadia fenders in the smaller size rated up to 28s and it was a no go. I could barely run 23s and I had to go to an SKS fender bracket on the rear.

SKS FTW.

A word to the wise: Wheels make a difference too. I run OPS with 32s without fenders. I can't do that with Race Lites: taller wheel.

well i got the (35mm) honjo's in the mail yesterday, and from an initial eyeballing i'm gonna guess there's no way they'll fit over the Grand Bois 28's i'm running currently.. didn't try the front, but in the rear there was maybe 3-5mm of clearance when i slid the fender on.. dammit!

while i love the pacer, now i feel like i should have gone for the salsa caseroll after all... but oh well, life goes on.

i think they'll work with 25's, or maybe some Grand Bois 26's.. also i have some SKS fenders that might somehow fit a bit better. fwiw this is on a 54cm pacer.

now i feel like i should have gone for the salsa caseroll after all...
Funny, I find myself in the opposite situation. I had decided to build around a Salsa Casseroll because of the good tire clearance (among other things), but for some reason it is not available anywhere around my place in Germany, with no ETA.
So that means I have to look for an alternative solution and the Pacer is an obvious candidate... But the tire clearance is a big problem. Oh man this is not easy...

well i got the (35mm) honjo's in the mail yesterday, and from an initial eyeballing i'm gonna guess there's no way they'll fit over the Grand Bois 28's i'm running currently.. didn't try the front, but in the rear there was maybe 3-5mm of clearance when i slid the fender on.. dammit!

while i love the pacer, now i feel like i should have gone for the salsa caseroll after all... but oh well, life goes on.

i think they'll work with 25's, or maybe some Grand Bois 26's.. also i have some SKS fenders that might somehow fit a bit better. fwiw this is on a 54cm pacer.

when i ran some schwalbe '28s' i had tighter clearances.
is it the frame or the brakes?

is it the frame or the brakes?

the frame. i have long-reach brakes on it, but they have to be set at their shortest reach in order to make contact with the rims..

in the rear it's not tight in terms of width, but vertical clearance. as submicron pointed out in this thread, it'd be great if the pacer's rear brake-mount was 5mm higher!

don't get me wrong, the bike has more clearance than any other i've owned, but it's gonna be a tight squeeze for sure with the 28's and any fenders, not just the honjos. i think 25-26's will work just fine.

the LBS said "we'll get those honjos on there," so i'm gonna let them take a crack at it (i don't even have a drill to mount them myself). and if that doesn't work out, this might be my first 650b conversion!

so for this weekend's 600k, i'm just going with a race blade on the rear; we're supposed to have nice weather anyway.. got my fingers crossed.

Since the honjos did not work for me, I got some SKS P35's. They were cheap enough to take the risk, and I had no reservations about modifying them a bit. In fact, this thread inspired me to give fenders another chance. Shimano regular reach calipers are stiffer than tektros, but they are thicker around the right-side pivot point, creating an assymetrical area for the fender. I had to file a hole in the rear fender to center the fender and to accomodate caliper movement. The laminated material of SKS seems very robust, and I like this solution better than cutting + reach arounds. With this one little modification, they fit just fine around 28mm gatorskins. I think this tire size is the limit.

Now that my pacer does not look naked anymore, I think I will love it unconditionally... :)

One note about fenders: I used two planet bike sets, honjos, and now SKS. I think honjos are the most beautiful, and highest quality by far, but I have my reservations about their hardware. You end up with all these bolts and nuts between the fender and the tire, which really cut tire clearance. SKS and PB use low-profile rivets instad, and the bolts are external. Also, SKS fenders seem more flexy, but with dual stays they are very rigid when mounted (more so than PB). Finally, the securi-clip is a superiour feature for someone like me, who rides fast at night. PB have the best mud flap, which I will try to attach to the front SKS...

In case of an object getting lodged in the front, I think PB will just crack, SKS clip will get dislodged (the laminate is too strong to break-- I cut a piece and experimented with it), but with honjos I think I would go flying... They look very strong and have no front release mechanism (rear does not matter, since rear skids are controllable). That's my subjective opinion...

Since the honjos did not work for me, I got some SKS P35's. They were cheap enough to take the risk, and I had no reservations about modifying them a bit. In fact, this thread inspired me to give fenders another chance. Shimano regular reach calipers are stiffer than tektros, but they are thicker around the right-side pivot point, creating an assymetrical area for the fender. I had to file a hole in the rear fender to center the fender and to accomodate caliper movement. The laminated material of SKS seems very robust, and I like this solution better than cutting + reach arounds. With this one little modification, they fit just fine around 28mm gatorskins. I think this tire size is the limit.

Now that my pacer does not look naked anymore, I think I will love it unconditionally... :)

One note about fenders: I used two planet bike sets, honjos, and now SKS. I think honjos are the most beautiful, and highest quality by far, but I have my reservations about their hardware. You end up with all these bolts and nuts between the fender and the tire, which really cut tire clearance. SKS and PB use low-profile rivets instad, and the bolts are external. Also, SKS fenders seem more flexy, but with dual stays they are very rigid when mounted (more so than PB). Finally, the securi-clip is a superiour feature for someone like me, who rides fast at night. PB have the best mud flap, which I will try to attach to the front SKS...

In case of an object getting lodged in the front, I think PB will just crack, SKS clip will get dislodged (the laminate is too strong to break-- I cut a piece and experimented with it), but with honjos I think I would go flying... They look very strong and have no front release mechanism (rear does not matter, since rear skids are controllable). That's my subjective opinion...

some rando riders will argue that the concealed hardware of the honjos @ the rear provide better rain draining ability - those clips on the sks fenders allow water to collect and shed out - fanning out and getting feet and frames wet.

i agree that the bolts on the honjo's can cause clearance issues. i've ground mine down a bit. this isn't a problem on the strut to fender connection - as you can space this accordingly - but on the fork and frame connection.

you can order various parts kits for the honjos... i've debated getting an alternate fork mount for mine.

VO has them here (http://www.velo-orange.com/slbrfor43fe.html) and here (http://www.velo-orange.com/hofebr.html).

bmike, you make a good point about water draining with sks clips. I did not think about this. In Southern California I run fenders mostly to keep the road grime from the drivetrain (and my legs). I only ride through occasional sprinkler puddle or light drizzle. I have both of the rear mounting options for honjos, which I got from VO. SKS still fit better in the rear IMO. Honjo's bolt-on bracket has clearance issues due to bolts, and the sliding bridge is not as low-profile as SKS, and resulted in tire rub... :(

update: the bike shop got the honjos on the pacer, but say that the GrandBois 28 in the rear is too big (width-wise, maybe i should have gone with the 45-width honjos).. i'm going to pick it up later today.

guy at the LBS thinks that the GB's seem wider than other 28's, could be; but at worst i'll be on 25/26's. either way i hope to stay dry(er) this winter!

Regarding 28mm tires and 35mm fenders: I had SKS P-35 fenders over my Conti UG 28's for a while, and even when adjusted in as close as possible, I was still getting some side spray from them. I moved up to the P-45's and I have no more issues, and I can fit my 35mm Innova studs in there for the winter. (You may not get much snow downtown, but up on Redmond Ridge we get quite a bit.)

well the honjo's are on now! and they work beautifully. got to use them in the rain this weekend.

some pics:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3212/2869953896_922ed02174.jpg?v=1221809809

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3101/2869955848_82ca06156a.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3288/2869954620_55a99e3123.jpg?v=0

i like them a lot, although they already rattle a tiny bit here and there! i got more than a few "who installed your fenders" comments during last weekend's brevets. luckily i could blame it on the LBS!

i wonder if the 45mm honjos would fit on the pacer, then i could definitely run the 28 GB's... but this will do for now.

just need to add a flap in the rear and my velo is ready for winter!!

nice!

35mm hammered?
mine rattle a bit too... need to work that out.
they were tight and quiet all summer - until i pulled em to run some 32s for D2R2.
after reinstalling them i hear some rattles on the rough stuff.

Mattm, do you have a closeup of the honjo near the rear bridge? These are the same honjos I gave up on, and even the same brake calipers I'm using. They are sitting in the garage right now, but I would like to give them a second chance one day. I did my first ride with SKS P35s over the weekend, and they are rock solid and quiet in spite of tight tolerances (at least for now). My 45mm PBs on my Redline 9-2-5 have a lot more clearance but flex and rattle more. Is your pacer a 54? Are you getting any toe overlap. It seems it would be possible to damage aluminum fenders that way...

i don't have a closeup of the rear, but i'll surely be taking that pic soon anyway. hope i can help you get yours on!

it's a 54 - and i do get a little overlap, but it doesn't bother me much.