Advocacy & Safety - Music/Headphones

Just wondering what people think about listen to music while biking. I am planing on commuting 24 miles a day (on suberban roads) so listening to music will make the experience much more enjoyable.

How dangerous is it? I figure that if I don't turn it up too loud I should be able to hear horns and such, but I don't think I will be able to hear cars approaching. Does this mater though, since there's pretty much a steady stream of cars during rush hour?

I'd like to wear my Senheisser HD570's but since they are huge and my helmet won't fit over them I will probably go with cheep ear buds.

In CA. (and problably in most states) it is illegal to ride or drive with both ears covered by headphones. Besides confiscation by the police there are a lot of other reasons you don't want to bring any expensive audio devices with on your commutes or other rides. Instead buy a cheap helmet and and midrange set of headphones that you can partially disassemble and thread through a venthole near your ear and in between the plastic outer lining and the styrofoam body of the helmet, reassemble the headphones on the outside of the opposing venthole near your other ear and adjust this geeky contraption so the headphhones are an inch or two clear of your ears. This will look ugly but will be both legal and comfortable (headphones cause your ears to sweat and press on your earlobes and make them sore).

Always commute with a mirror on your bike or better still, sticking out of that already ugly helmet you'll be wearing. It is my experience that you can hear the first car coming even with the headphones playing music, it's the second and third car following that you have to "watch" for. It is probably worthwhile to invest in an auto-reverse cassette player or an MP3 player if you have a PC, nothing screws up your momentum like stopping to fiddle with your music every 30 or 45 minutes or even sooner if the tape has already started before you start riding.

[Edited by cvcyclenut on 06-20-2000 at 06:59 PM]

Hey, If you don't turn the volume too much I reckon you should be alright as long as you take it easy. I don't know what the traffic is like down your way - I live Down Under but if the traffic gets a bit scary I'd go without them.
http://www.geocities.com/nothing4130

I've worn out half a dozen Sony Walkmen in the past couple of decades. My commute is 32 miles round trip, most of it on a carless levee top road, so the added entertainment certainly helps.

A couple of tips I could pass along... The "Sports" models hold up well, especially in the cold and wet. They'll take a crash or two, a plus where I ride. The Sports models use very small headband earphones, which will fit under a helmet and stay in place, unlike earbuds. When on the road with motor traffic, you can pull the traffic side earpiece back behind your ear, and listen with just the kerbside ear. This will aid your movement through traffic, and keep the police from bothering you. I recieved a "PV" (Process Verbal, a ticket) in Paris for riding with earphones on... Back home in Georgia, I doubt the cops would even realize it wasn't legal.

Personally I'd rather go without them. The motorists in my part of the world are dangerous enough as it is (I refer to them as motoring primates), so I'd rather not increase my risks. As for bicycling being boring enough to need additional entertainment... NEVER!!!

Chris

After sight, your hearing is the most used item when riding your bike (hmm, legs and lungs would be #1 and #2 I guess), you need to hear those cars coming, honking, yelling, sirens etc. I say go without, I just don't think it is safe, let alone legal to ride with headphones.

Riding with headphones is like:

Sword fighting with a pocket knife

Rolling dice that are loaded for the house

Driving in the Montana winter with one snow tire

Getting in the ring with Mike Tyson

Riding with Eddy Merckx while on a "Cruiser"

etc. etc. etc.

I carry a small portable radio in a handlebar Pack. Doesn't impair hearing and offers a variety of sounds.

I tend to agree; riding with headphones is nuts. I wish there was a way though. I was at a stereo place the other day listening to Crystal Method on an incredible stereo. All I could think about was how awesome it would be to be able to have that to listen to while blasting through heavy traffic at night. But alas I would not live to see daylight.
There must be a compromise though. Carrying a small portable stereo would be ok but bulky. perhaps something custom build to fit compactly in a backpack with a couple small speakers close to the head would do. Hmmmm
Anyone tried anything like that?

Man, the way some of these cats get so hot and bothered about such small things, you would think bicyclists are all squares instead of just eccentric.

Ya, wearing headphones may impare your hearing a bit - especially if you have it up loud, but listening to music while bicycling is also very enjoyable.

The best solution is probably a compromise.

I like the idea of modifying your helmet to insert headphone speakers. If this worked well, it sounds cool. It would be even better if you could find a way to get rid of the cable that always seems to get in the way.

I received a handlebar mounted radio from Radio Shack as a Christmas present. It works very nicely. It doesn't sound as good as stereo headphones, but it does make traffic easier to hear.

Buy a small radio mount it on the handle bar, its better than a headphone, that your thinking of doing, listening on a headphone and biking doesn't go together, it like drinking beer and whiskey its dangerous....

I did i tyears ago and cranked up real loud as to drown out everything. However I was told by Johnny Law one day that if I got hit, he would not hold the motorists responsible. I Va. he explained it is up to the cyclists to make themselves as visible as possible, and we were to follow the same traffic laws. I do not know the law for this in Tx. but I expect nothing less. I do know this. We as cyclists can ride with headphones, relatively safely for the ost part, and motorists cannot drive and talk on the phone.

One more time...

www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/hearing.htm

about headphones on bikes

This is the opinion of a very qualified person. However, not everyone shares it. It discusses the value of hearing for a cyclist in avoiding accidents.

I am open to hear all views, but let me say personally that I don't listen to any music, only because I am too focused on what I'm doing. While listening to music may not be any more of a problem for a cyclist than for a driver, the point can be made that such distractions, whether for drivers or cyclists, can interfere with the concentration needed to avoid the sudden, unexpected
calamity. Hearing may have less to do with this situation than mental alertness and concentration.

All said and done, one still must wonder why laws are passed to restrict cyclists in areas where motorists are free to do as they choose.

Those laws are passed to win votes. Personally I would prefer to ride without headphones anyway. When you're in heavy traffic it's a good idea to hear what is going on around you. When there is no traffic I'd rather here the sounds of the outside world anyway. I can listen to music when I get home.

Chris

I've changed my tune a little since my fist post on this subject in January. I had a couple of close calls with cars coming up from behind me and almost running me over. I didn't even know they were coming until THERE THEY WERE!

Now, I realize how much headphones impare hearing when bicycling.

Still, it is so much more enjoyable for me when riding with some music. I now have a radio from Radio Shack that mounts on my handlebars. It doesn't seem to impair hearing traffic like headphones do.

yes, as I have said before, riding a bike with a headphone is like drinking beer and whiskey, dangerous, and driving your car home your tribe will not increase.....

I have a sort of "statement" and was wondering of you guys experience the same thing?
I always wear earphones at my bicycle trips (work,school and sports) and I've become one with the two black things.

*If you wear these you can`t hear other traffic users!

*So your hearing abilities are disabled, its a natural thing that your sight is taking over the task!

I,am not saying that its a safe way to bicycle like this, but when i ride with music, i feel very concentrated and my eyes are constant moving to search the danger.
Its like being one with the traffic!
(+its powering up my speed a bit :D)
Does this sounds lunatic or do you experience the same?

Mark b.

Ya, Toolfreak, I sure know what you mean about enjoying riding and listening to music. I just absolutely love that combination. Music and bike riding go together like cream and puff.

The reason bicyclists are so nuts about safety is that there is absolutely zero tolerance when it comes to collisions with automobiles. When you are a bicyclists, there is no such thing as a fender-bender. Even the slightest collision with an automobile has severe damage to both the rider and his machine.

This is why experienced road riders tell you that you need all your senses at their peak performance. Obviously, headphones impair one of your most important senses for riding safety.

I'm trying to figure an alternative to headphones as well. I have a radio on my handlebars now, which is OK, but not as sweet as stereo headphones, plus I can't enjoy tapes or CDs.

I wear headphones and listen to the news on my morning workout. This is on an isolated road with little or no traffic at that time of the morning (5:00-6:30AM). My setup is a walkman with the little "ear bud" type headphones that don't require any modification of a helment and a light tug on the cord will remove them both in a hurry. You can also just use one side to have better awareness of your surroundings. If I get into any serious traffic, the radio stays in the backpack.

One has to wonder why motorists can crank up the sound AMAP but cyclists "shouldn't do that."

On the other hand, we should protect ourselves. I'm just against inequality.

Safe or not, it could look stupid, if that’s a concern. I was riding behind a fella who was singing along, “Desperadooooooo, why don’t you come to your senses…”. Off key, as well.

I'm glad nobody has heard me singing off key, then they'd really hate cyclists!

I guess the difference between driving a car with the radio on and riding with earphones, is that the earphones are more exclusive of other sounds, being right in your ear. With the car radio on, at least at normal volumes, you can still hear outside sounds.

Of course they way some people crank the volume on their car stereos, it's just as bad as having earphones.

I haven't looked into the handle bar mounted radio but, think it might get crowded with my headlight plus radio and speakers. If the quality is even half way passable though it sounds like a good plan.

I currently ride with a very small walkman type am/fm. It has easy to push, without looking at them, station pre-sets. I use the ear bud type speakers. I use only one at at time, on the curb side and don't crank it up too far. I tape the bud not in my ear to the cord so it doesn't flop around. If the station is coming in well I listen to sports radio. I also really like good music and it helps me keep cranking and cranking faster. I guess it's psychological but, when I was running I flat could not do it without the tunes.

Has anybody tried making a headphone helmut? I sure like listening to the radio, but don't like dedicating my hearing by wearing headphones.

The handlebar mounted radio is OK, but like J.R. (Hewing?) from Texas says, the handlebars get crowded.

I think it might be possible to mount ear-bud style speakers in the helmet.

Has anybody tried this? Does it work?

Originally posted by mike

I think it might be possible to mount ear-bud style speakers in the helmet.

Has anybody tried this? Does it work?
All the earbuds I've used emit such a tiny amount of sound that even if you could supply enough current to make it audible with the earbud not in your ear, it would be awfully distorted.

Personally, I find that if I have music going (speakers or headphones or earbuds, it makes no difference) and get to really concentrating on some task, I completely lose track of the music and am unaware it's even playing.

This leads me to suspect that if I'm aware of the music I'm not really concentrating on my task.

And when I am cycling I want to concentrate--very much.

Just my personal view.

I listen to an MP3 player with earbuds when the mood strikes me. When I have the earbuds in, I keep the volume at a moderate level so I can still hear outside noise. I take the buds out when I'm on a more dangerous stretch.

I get alot of enjoyment from music on my rides, so I don't want to go without; however, I am cognizant of the risks involved and don't get so lost in the music that I forget about traffic.

Safe or not, it could look stupid, if that’s a concern. I was riding behind a fella who was singing along, “Desperadooooooo, why don’t you come to your senses…”. Off key, as well.

This sounds like a good reason for a new law banning singing while operating a bicycle. It makes about as much sense as the current law banning headphones. I don't think that responsible use of headphones is unsafe, it just subtracts from the experience of the ride.

I have tried it both ways (with and without music) and have found that I generally prefer not to listen while riding. This takes a bit of time to get used to, I hated it at first. In time you can come to appreciate the opportunity to focus on the task at hand and really enjoy the ride just for what it is, without the addition of music.

If you wish to ride with music, I would suggest using only one earphone instead of two.

Dan

I listen to headphones when I go to work, but then again, I'm mostly off road so I don't really need to hear traffic. Because I'm on my MTB, mounting a CD player to my bike would be bad because the jolting. Even with a 8 second buffer, it skips and drops out all the time so I simply slide a CD-player in my back pocket and use round the neck headphones. An MP3 player would be ideal but I can't justify the expensive.

For road riders who have a rack, you could get one of those "car CD players" with the little remote FOB that can be mounted on the handlebars. In this way, you could mount the CD player on the rack in the back and then wire the remote FOB along the top tube to the handlebar. From the FOB, you can control the CD Player/radio mounted on your rack without sacrificing handlebar space....

Just an idea. I was intending to do this until I found out that my CDs would skip too much when my CD was on my rack.

Jay

It's not about hearing. It's about distraction. Some cyclists say they're not distracted by the music, news, talk radio, whatever they listen to. Some drivers say they're not distracted by their cell phones, radios, Egg McMuffins, or Junior crying in the baby seat.

I don't believe any of them, and my default attitude is to view them all as threats.

Riding in traffic while continuously calculating and updating the upcoming decision tree, spotting potential bailout routes, trying to second-guess what the cagers might be getting ready to do, takes all of my concentration. I don't have any to spare.

Cyclists are more vulnerable. We *must* be more alert.

RichC

i train with headphones and an archos mp3 player all the time when i go out alone. but i often do 7-8 hour rides by myself.

phillips makes a pair of headphones that clips over your ear. the earbuds swivel to either face your ear or not. if traffic is heavy, the little speakers face away from my ears, otherwise they turn in. i have never had any problems due to wearing headphones while riding, and i put in 7-8000 miles a year not including commuting. but i am also psychotically careful when riding not to assume drivers are gonna do what i expect ...

fyi, with these phones i can actually carry on a conversation if i'm in a group.

http://www.goelectronic.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=GE&Product_Code=Philips%2FMagnavox+HS-310&Category_Code=LIGHTWEIGHT+HEADPHONES

http://www.goelectronic.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/10/hs-310.jpg

Since I've started using ear-bud headphones on the occasional ride, I've also begun using a glasses insert mirror. If anything, my eyes are busier and I'm more aware of the traffic around me. Now I feel uncomfortable going without my little mirror, headphones or no headphones. I guess that just indicates that hearing is very much a secondary sense when bicycling.

I don't buy the argument that listening to music or news or whatever on headphones automatically desensitizes you to your surroundings.. anymore than, say, riding along deep in thought does (who hasn't done this?). After all, I'm not looking to distract myself from my riding; rather, music can be a nice complement to the cycling experience. But that's just my opinion. Of course, I would never advocate turning up the headphone volume to the point of totally masking environmental sounds or damaging ones hearing.

However, after learning that the mere presence of headphones can potentially influence accident claims and/or court cases, regardless of fault, I need to rethink using headphones at all on public roads.

BTW, thanks for that bikexprt.com link. Good stuff there.

If you wish to ride with music, I would suggest using only one earphone instead of two.
Dan

Um, no. That's actually a lot worse. It really messes with what little directional hearing you have, and , I don't know about anyone else, but it gives me a headache.

If you're so worried about these alleged risks, you're better off keeping the volume modertate to low and use both earphones than using a single one .

The phoenix thread -- the one we all thought was two years' dead. :rolleyes:

The phoenix thread -- the one we all thought was two years' dead. :rolleyes:

New thread, resurrected old thread, makes no difference. This, like so many other subjects comes up from time to time anyway.

:)

I have to admit I am guilty. However I took another tac to try to make it so I can hear...

On my 185 mile ride I knew things would get pretty boring riding country roads by myself so I decided to carry an MP3 player with me.

However I did not want to plug my ears. So as it turns out my MP3 player came with a headset instead of ear-buds. And even more it was a kind that wrapped around the back of your head (over your ears). Perfect to put on backwards and stick into the air vents of the helmet. A few tie-wraps to keep it on and I'm set. The ear pieces hang about 2 inches from my head. At full volume I can hear it clear enough... And when I am in traffic it fades into the background enough that I can follow the noise of traffic.

I tested it with some understanding friends prior to this ride and I could hear and talk to everyone in the paceline without going Huh?

A question is... Is this wearing earphones? They are on my helmet not on my ears!?

A question is... Is this wearing earphones? They are on my helmet not on my ears!?

Probably not, but on the other hand, it is illegal here to have anything attached to your helmet apart from a visor and your head, so check up on that one.

I'm with VeloRon, if you use headphones, use a mirror too. I don't ride with headphones now, but I did for a couple-three years, and I never had any problems.

it is illegal here to have anything attached to your helmet

Havent heard of that one before. Kinda like the law I saw in some country where you cannot use more than 3W for the front light...

Or perhaps they don't want anyone with the Kaiser Spike sticking out of their helmet :)

So that would make my mirror illegal, since it attaches to my helmet? (Unlike most headphones, which DON"T actually attach to the helmet)?

Good point. Didn't figure that one...

Havent heard of that one before. Kinda like the law I saw in some country where you cannot use more than 3W for the front light...

Or perhaps they don't want anyone with the Kaiser Spike sticking out of their helmet :)

I think it has more to do with the danger of the attached item penetrating the styrofoam in the event of a crash. Or even just creating a point load on it without penetrating will limit the helmets ability to spread the impact.

So that would make my mirror illegal, since it attaches to my helmet? (Unlike most headphones, which DON"T actually attach to the helmet)?

I don't know about Oregon law, but over here, yes, it would be.