Road Bike Racing - If you race with clinchers...

... how do you get back to the wheel pit if you flat on the back straight?

In my effort to justify the purchase of a set of tubulars, I think riding them flat back to the wheel pit is one of the last arguments left. So, dispel this one and I might just stick with clinchers for life!

Personally, I think you are making too big a deal of this. I've had at least 20 flats in crits and have never had a problem getting to the pits. Rears are always rideable. Fronts may require a light jog.

I actually won a field sprint on a flat rear tubular last year. Try that on a clincher.

I actually won a field sprint on a flat rear tubular last year. Try that on a clincher.

Abraham Olano:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOtqNQJQcuU

Roy Knickman, 1983 US Jr Crit Champ, won on a flat and rolled rear tubular. Helps the guy who beat him in the sprint (2 up break) used a 53x12, a bit bigger gear than the 53x15 gear limit for Juniors. But still, if he'd been on a clincher, who knows what would have happened.

Urban, so what kind of tubulars are you going to buy? :)

cdr

To break it down to the most remote contigency - that you might flat on the back stretch of a crit course - means you're splitting hairs.

To break it down to the most remote contigency - that you might flat on the back stretch of a crit course - means you're splitting hairs.

The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line.

If you flat on the back straight of a .6 mile crit course, you cut across the infield, which is about 125 meters to the wheel pit, tops.

I believe that USAC rules are that if the course is over 1 mile, there are supposed to be TWO wheel pits.

Bob

The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line.

If you flat on the back straight of a .6 mile crit course, you cut across the infield, which is about 125 meters to the wheel pit, tops.

I believe that USAC rules are that if the course is over 1 mile, there are supposed to be TWO wheel pits.

Bob

What if there's a pond in the middle, or other areas unable to be travelled?

I raced a crit on a rear clincher last year and had a pinch flat heading into a corner resulting in a crash. This year I raced all my crits on tubulars and rolled one in my last race resulting in a crash. Don't ask me what to race on.

What if there's a pond in the middle, or other areas unable to be travelled?

That depends, can you swim?

:p

Although it's fun sometimes to play "What If?", it can lead to silly examples. Bottom line is that luck plays a big part in the outcome of bike races.

"What if..." you flatted in a crit, followed by "What if..." you can't make your way back to the wheel pit quickly enough means that the cycling gods have decided that you need to call it a day.

OTOH, what if when you get to the wheel pit, your wheel is missing? (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=456573)

Bob

What if there's a pond in the middle, or other areas unable to be travelled?

Who would have such a thing!?...:p

http://www.carolinacup.com/images/2007/Harrys_park.jpg

Most longer crit courses I have raced on they tell you to get back to the pits asap but if you flat on the back side and it takes a lap to get to the pit it's ok. As long as free laps are still ok.

I raced a crit on a rear clincher last year and had a pinch flat heading into a corner resulting in a crash. This year I raced all my crits on tubulars and rolled one in my last race resulting in a crash. Don't ask me what to race on.

In the old days one would be DQed for rolling a tire, and if you ask me they should be suspended and tarred and feathered. Some jack ass rolled a front tire at the NYS crit championship and damn well nearly killed half the field. Use glue liberally. If you're not sure if you used enough glue you didn't.

In the old days one would be DQed for rolling a tire, and if you ask me they should be suspended and tarred and feathered. Some jack ass rolled a front tire at the NYS crit championship and damn well nearly killed half the field. Use glue liberally. If you're not sure if you used enough glue you didn't.

Thank you for the lecture.

Who would have such a thing!?...:p

http://www.carolinacup.com/images/2007/Harrys_park.jpg

3D. Criterium

3D5. Free Lap Rule.

(a) Bicycle inspection and repairs must be made in an official
repair pit. If announced in advance by the Chief Referee,
riders are permitted to cut the course to get to a pit, but only
while the free lap rule is in effect. Either an official following
vehicle shall transport riders to a single repair pit, normally
near the start/finish line, or riders must proceed to a repair
pit in accordance with Rule 3D2. If no following vehicle is
used, there should be repair pits at intervals of 1 km around
the course.

If USAC rules are followed, that course should have at least 2 (possibly 3) wheel pits, and the pond wouldn't be a big factor ('tho I did actually notice a bridge across it).

Bob

Sure thing, no problem :beer:

I've seen the base layer peel off a tubular rolling the tire off while still glued. Should we permanently ban them as well? How about the guy that ran his clinchers one race to long and had a blow out. Can we give him lashing with a cable? Mechanical failures happen.

you'd like to compare a failure with installation ineptitude?

I've seen the base layer peel off a tubular rolling the tire off while still glued. Should we permanently ban them as well? How about the guy that ran his clinchers one race to long and had a blow out. Can we give him lashing with a cable? Mechanical failures happen.

+1. I have seen a guy roll a tubular which was glued by "a professional at a bike shop". Sh*t happens, thats racing. Getting all bent out of shape about it is pointless.

-1. expressing an opinion doesn't make one bent out of shape. amp down the emo.

I've seen the base layer peel off a tubular rolling the tire off while still glued. Should we permanently ban them as well? How about the guy that ran his clinchers one race to long and had a blow out. Can we give him lashing with a cable? Mechanical failures happen.Actually, using too much glue is the main cause of base-tape peeling off a tyre. The glue ends up taking too long to dry and the solvents in it soak through the base-tape and softens that glue as well.

you'd like to compare a failure with installation ineptitude?

The strange thing is that the front tire was glued using the same process, same amount of glue, but a few months before the rear tire that rolled. The front wheel was cracked in the crash and I blistered both of my thumbs and just about had an aneurysm getting the tire off. I used the procedure from cyclingnews.com, I believe, that involves 3 layers of glue on the rim and 2 layers on the tire with 24 hours between layers. I certainly thought it was on there to stay. I did strike a pedal, that led to the tire rolling. But it was a light strike. Certainly not out of the ordinary.

Luckily nobody else went down with me in the crash although 1 or 2 guys went off course, lost the pack and thier race was over.

I was really referring to the case I saw where the tire rolled clean the eff just going through a turn. Nothing out of the ordinary happened. The guy got to get a wheel and finish the race. In talking with the official after the race I asked why he got to finish and he said the rule changed. But that the guy would have gotten a DQ in another time.

I wasn't aware that it used to be a DQ to roll a tire. The last time I rolled a tubie was in 1985. I got a new wheel then and finished the race.

I wasn't aware that it used to be a DQ to roll a tire. The last time I rolled a tubie was in 1985. I got a new wheel then and finished the race.

Here's the rule:

1. General Racing Rules

1A20. A mishap is a crash or a mechanical accident (tire
puncture or other failure of an essential component).
However, a puncture caused by the tire coming off due to
inadequate gluing is not a mechanical accident, nor is a
malfunction due to mis-assembly or insufficient tightening of
any component. A recognized mishap is a stoppage that
meets the above conditions. An unrecognized mishap is a
stoppage where the above conditions are not met.
A broken toe strap or cleat is a mishap. A worn or
misadjusted cleat or toe strap is not a mishap. If more than
one toe strap is used on a pedal, breakage of one is
considered a mishap. Any mishap not immediately inspected
by an official is unrecognized.

Bob

A tubular tire rolling off a rim used to be grounds for an immediate 10 day suspension. The first warning was a note included in the envelope that held your license which clearly stated that a rolled tire is a suspendable offense and that the warning was the note in the envelope. Most suspensions had to be preceded by a warning so this way a racer who rolled a tire could be suspended immediately. I only remember one or two years like that.

As some have pointed out base tapes do roll (usually on defective, old, or some tire compromised in some way - solvents etc). I've seen brand new tires roll base tapes (I never bought another one of those, and I removed the basetape on the tires I still had), I've seen iffy situations where the basetape was compromised due to age/etc.

However, for a glued tire to roll means either the rim got really, really, really hot (30 minutes of descending down a switchback mountain) or the tire was simply not glued right.

If a tire is not glued right and it fails, that is NOT a mechanical problem. It is an installer problem.

If a shop installed it, the rider should sue them and let them use some of their liability insurance. This also calls them on their gluing policies - i.e. someone who knows how to do it actually does it, they charge the $50-60 per tire they should charge, and they make the customer sign a waiver on no refunds on the tire or labor for any reason. One shop, now out of business, used to have their "pit slaves" do the gluing work - kids who didn't understand liability, the forces the tire will have to withstand, the seriousness of an incident where someone might die or become paralyzed. This is not the way to glue tires, and it showed in the number of rolled tires the shop had.

A properly glued tire will not come off, even with a lot of directed force. If you jam a screwdriver under the basetape, shove it through until it sticks out the other side, the tire should not give, even to the point that you point the screwdriver directly at the hub (i.e. lever it 90 degrees) you will peel off maybe 4-5 inches of tire. If this is not the case you need to reglue the tire.

When I dismount a tire I do exactly that - jam a screwdriver under the basetape, pray I don't shred the tire casing in doing so, then roll the screwdriver under the basetape for a little more than 1/3 of the wheel. If my glue job was really marginal then I can take the rest off by pulling on the tire and it won't destroy the tire. Usually pulling on a well glued tire will damage the threads holding the tire together - the threads sewing the casing shut will either stretch, break, or break the casing. If not a marginal glue job I have to roll the screwdriver under at least half the tire. A satisfactory glue job will require doing the screwdriver rolling under all but maybe a quarter of the tire.

This type of confidence in my glue jobs allows me to do things like skip my back tire in corners, powerslide to avoid things, jump as soon as I feel like I can pedal while exiting a turn, etc., and never worry about rolling a tire.

A teammate of mine had an incident where someone hit a chainlink fence perpendicular, and right next to, the race course (the race went through a gate in the fence). The guy bounced back into the field (basically bounced backwards into the field), my teammate bounced off of him, landed sideways on his rims at about 30-35 mph (i.e. he was pointing perpendicular to everyone else), almost highsided as he bounced in the air, and somehow stayed upright. He rolled about 2 spokes worth of rear tire - maybe 4-5 inches - and the tire, now next to the side of the rim, jammed so hard into his rear brake that the brake shoe shot out of the brake shoe holder. Because the tire then hit the frame and locked up the rear wheel, my teammate went for a free lap. The official was about to suspend him (see first bit of this post) and my teammate challenged him to try and dismount any more of the tire. The official could not, realized that the tire was so well glued that it didn't roll all the way off, and let my teammate get a wheel. That's when he found out the brake block was missing so he didn't get back in anyway.

A rolled tire is like a loose stem, bar, improperly installed chain, loose quick release, etc. Should not happen.

But if you haven't rolled a tire in 23 years then that's a reasonable record. None in your lifetime would be an improvement.

cdr

thanks for the corroboration. why did they change it? I also agree 23 years is a pretty good track record for anything.

thanks for the corroboration. why did they change it? I also agree 23 years is a pretty good track record for anything.

np.

Why change it? I'm not sure, I think that ex-USCF guy who has a site up somewhere has some insight, but I have a feeling it was due to the uncertainty of the offense. For example, a defective tire rolling a base tape is different from a tire rolling due to a bad glue job. Legally I think the Feds have to define what constitutes an offensive roll (so to speak).

I remember about 10 years ago a girl (16 years old) died in a car when her car went airborne at 100+ mph on a 25 mph road. The car landed nose down, the air bags deployed, the girl lost control, and she ended up dying when the car hit a tree. (There were three other kids in the car too, they lived). A lawyer friend told me that the parents, if they felt like it, should be able to sue Volvo. I was astounded - an impact from flying 50 feet in the air and landing hard on the front tires, if that doesn't deploy the air bags then what will?? He pointed out that technically, legally, the car didn't run into anything, and that perhaps if the airbags didn't deploy the girl would have lived. I don't know if the girl's parents sued but I realized at that point that I can't take anything for granted. That is when I started charging some insane fee to glue tires ($35 I think, without glue or the tire, and at that time I think we charged $30 to build a wheel - and I only trusted a few guys to glue tires at the shop).

I have a soft spot for rolled base tapes because I bought a batch of tires where the base tapes peeled off like sticker backings. I found out the hard way when a good friend of mine dove into a turn and promptly fell over. He was so shocked he held up his tire, rim, and yelled across Turn 1, past the finish line (and officials), to me, saying "Yo! My tire rolled!". lol. Everyone was telling him to be quiet, too funny. We glued the rest of the tires after peeling off the base tape, a la Eddy B in the 1984 Olympics. But other than that one tire I've never had a tire I glued, personally or for a customer, roll.

cdr

Well, glad to see this started a debate on the morality of suspending/DQing someone who rolls a tire.

I guess I'm just starting to succumb to the dark side of only riding clinchers. I still remembers tubulars feeling smoother through corners, but that's about it.

CDR: I was thinking of building up Velocity Escape rims, 24h front/28h rear with Aerolite spokes, possibly to hubs I'm seeing on ebay (maybe Ritchey front) or AC hubs if I decide to up the budget. But I'm thinking of just going clincher with Aerohead rims instead... unless someone has a compelling reason to go tubular, and fwiw I might be focussing on road races (very few crits) next year anyway.

Sheeeeeet, so I should probably take my Conti Sprinters off immediately then because parts of the base tape is peeling a bit? Dang man, these tires are pieces of crap! They were taped on using Tufo tape and barely 100 miles into them, I noticed the peeling.

Sorry for going OT there, it's one of these "responsibility" peeves of mine, i.e. "not my fault you broke your collarbone, I didn't glue my tires so it's not my fault they rolled" kind of things. And you look at the tire and rim and see a dab of glue between each spoke hole indentation and the other tire is rotated 20 degrees due to lack of glue.

For hubs I'd get the widest flange hubs for the most lateral rigidity. I mention some old mavic hubs elsewhere (for track use). The reason I'm not using these silky sweet hubs is the flanges are pushed in a bit, for "aero". I built up a wheel, almost fell over when I started sprinting on it, thought it was the spokes or maybe lack of tension, redid the wheels, almost fell over again, built a second hub (eliminate all variables), same deal. Basically the narrow flanges make the wheel flexy side to side, and if you are an out of saddle kind of guy, it makes for a flexy and disconcerting ride. I'll use it on the track (since I think I'll be sprinting more in the saddle) but not for the road. In contrast I'm (re)building a wheel on a Campy NR/SR front hub with very wide flange placement. I mention all this because I think Ritchey has narrow flanges. If I'm wrong about Ritchey flanges then forget all this.

I don't know current rims but if you're building race wheels and you do crits and you have a set of lighter non-aero wheels for road races with wicked crazy descents, I'd build deep profile wheels. I have 46mm tall rims and they are not enough. I think 50mm is minimum, 58mm (404s) would be good, and over 60mm would be best for me (esp since I have a relatively easy to ride 46mm front).

At race speeds a tall rim makes a huge difference. Acceleration is not as much an issue unless you have a U-turn somewhere in the course - a lot of the races I'm in are steady and strung out, and I get into major difficulty only when there is a sustained push in pace (i.e. 5-10-15-20+ minutes at warp speed). At these speeds aero wheels help, weight doesn't. I used to be able to soft pedal at high speeds, taking advantage of the fact that I was on aero wheels and not too many others were, but now I find myself doing hard work just to stay on wheels. I think the proliferation of aero wheels has affected the sustainable speeds in even Cat 3-4 races.

As a side note some of the aero wheels are pretty light anyway, but those are more expensive (carbon rimmed wheels).

Tubulars will give you a lighter rim, oftentimes for less money, because the rims are more simple to make and do not have to deal with holding 160psi sideways (back to your original post). Therefore you can get an aero rim that is light, making it a nice wheel for any kind of race.

Personally I'd reserve a box section front wheel for wicked descent road races since aero wheels aren't quite as nice on switchbacks, 50-60 mph curves, and any sudden gusts of winds while going 50+ mph. I had a descent scare when a UPS truck passed me while I was in an aero tuck at maybe 50 mph - the bike swerved pretty hard and almost started a harmonic wobble. This was on my stable as a rock Cannondale, not the "wobbles at 45 mph" Giant I used to ride/race. I figure with a box front wheel the Cannondale would be fine, and in the rear any wheel would be acceptable - I used to do road races with a 440 rear and a box front - the 440 would give me some TT aero since I'd be TT'ing OTB most of the race (I also used Scott Rakes for the same reason).

cdr

OT again - the ex-USCF guy who wrote some stuff on the USCF:

http://www.stanford.edu/~learnest/cyclops/

Go up one level to see all his various ramblings.

cdr

cdr - what is your procedure for gluing on a tire? And how long do you leave a tire on before re-gluing it (or do you just check it periodically)? gsteinb or anyone else with gluing experience feel free to chime in as well.

Thanks.

(Sorry to steal the thread.)

you know, I swear I always flat before having a tire on too long becomes an issue. Sigh. In a world without flats I'd always run new tires for a new season if they made it that long.

you know, I swear I always flat before having a tire on too long becomes an issue. Sigh. In a world without flats I'd always run new tires for a new season if they made it that long.

In the past 3 years I haven't had a flat on my race tubulars. I've replaced the rear tire at the end of the season, and the front at 1 1/2 seasons. I've never pulled a tire off mid season to re-glue it between replacements either.

Anyone seen the temperature of hell lately? I just went to SDR's blog and I couldn't find a post on gluing tubies...

I check my tires after a season, usually doing a "can I peel a bit of the tire off" test. If I have doubts I reglue. In general I reglue annually but if I don't ride the tubulars a lot and they seem okay, I'll race them until I figure it's time.

Hopefully this won't change but I usually remove tires when they wear out. I'll move the front to the rear and put a new one on the front.

My procedure varies on the age of the rim. But a clean rim and tire, to start, I put a layer on the rim, layer on the tire.

The wheel I put in a truing stand, but standing and holding it works too, I usually prop a bit of the rim on some cardboard on a workbench etc. In tough situations I've glued a whole wheel holding it while standing, then hung the wheel on something, then glued the tire while standing in the same spot too. I use any piece of scrap anything (cardboard, paper, subscription insert, plastic bag, etc) to spread the glue from rim edge to rim edge. On a new rim I'll kind of work the glue into the rim, i.e. make sure it's really stuck to it, not a dab here and there.

I inflate the tire until the basetape is flat, i.e. kind of flounder like. Then I put glue on. If it's an old tire it requires some care so you get new glue everywhere. If it's a new tire it's easier. I spread the glue on the tire too, covering all but a few mm of basetape.

By the time I finish with the tire, the rim will be tacky. I'll put another layer on the rim, making sure I get the sides of the spoke holes, sides of the valve hole, etc. It should be like frosting, nothing is left uncovered. I do try and avoid getting glue into the spoke nipples because it makes truing the wheel a pain.

If the tire/rim are used then I'll put the tire on, while the glue on the rim is still a bit mushy. I like when there's webby stuff between the tire and the rim. If it's too dry and it doesn't make that webby stuff everywhere, I take the tire off, do another layer on the rim (not tire), repeat.

On a new rim I usually find I need to do 3 layers of glue so there is a consistent layer of glue all around the rim. I try and avoid too many layers on the tire due to the glue solvents causing the basetape to come off.

When mounting a tire I start the tire at the valve, push in so the valve is perpendicular, then pull the tire on, evenly up both sides, holding the tire by the sidewalls. Pull because you can pull on sidewalls - if you push you have to push on the glue-covered basetape. The last bit is tough - I usually hold the rim under my toes, a spoke going between one or two sets of toes. I can then lift the tire onto the rim. Sometimes it's clean, sometimes not.

I immediately check tire alignment (tread) to make the tire as straight as possible. I also make sure that the valve area is seated well.

I deflate the tire, do a few pressure rotations to stick the tire completely onto the rim, then inflate to about 20 psi. I roll that around to make sure the tire is on well, check straightness, and hope it's all good when I check.

I wait overnight, check for adhesion, check for gaps, and if anything doesn't look right or feel right or I'm having a negative karma day then I reglue the tire. On some long days I've glued 5-6 tires at a time but I find that 2-3 is my limit now.

I prefer cans of glue (the big cans, with a brush applicator). Tubes of glue work fine but I tend to skimp on the glue using tubes because it doesn't flow as evenly/predictably. A nice trick is to put the glue in a waterbottle and use that, but I only did that for a short time before I didn't have a reason to have that much glue for gluing tubulars. I like Conti glue (easiest to get, clear, available in cans and tubes), I've used Panaracer (old favorite, cans and tubes), Vittoria clear (another favorite, only ever had tubes). I couldn't get Tubasti to work (too soft when dry, tires would come off when I checked). I've used Vittoria and Clement red but I don't know the purpose of the red stuff and it seems to accumulate thicker than the clear stuff, but I used them on and off for about 20 years.

I haven't done an entry because I inevitably end up under the gun when gluing tires, plus it's hard to take pictures while things are drying a little too quickly (for me anyway).

Regarding flats - I flatted once at Prospect a couple years ago, loaned a particular NYC team racer a wheel and he flatted it and gave it back to me without too much offer of paying for a new tire (last time I loan one of those guys a wheel - and yes, I loaned someone I don't know my aero tubular wheel). Otherwise I haven't flatted for many years before or after. I can't remember the last time I flatted a tubular other than the two at Prospect that one time. Maybe mid 90s when I flatted a front and after riding for a while, caught and rode with two guys on the way home. I did flat once in the 80s, had to ride 10-15 miles home, but otherwise I've flatted in races a couple times and that's it.

Regarding tires - I have a few Contis (Sprinters and something else, $80-120 retail, currently on my front wheel, also a track rear wheel, plus some spare/used tires I've dismounted and saved). I prefer Vittorias and have CXs (one on the rear, need to put one on the front, I think I'm out otherwise). I used to buy CGs for the rear but I couldn't rotate tires easily, plus now it's hard to buy CGs. I have a couple CXs left. In the 80s I used Clement Criteriums.

Cheap tubulars are flat shaped, easy to fold, but end up weird on the wheel. They also have vulcanized (heat melted) tread which cracks when stretched, and tubulars stretch when inflated, so the tread cracks when you inflate them. This works great for picking up debris which work their way into the casing and flat your tire. Glued tread stretches with the tire so it doesn't crack and therefore resists picking up little things of debris. Buy "round" tires with glued on tread, not the cheaper vulcanized ones.

cdr

*edit* although the explanation is long, the gluing process is perhaps 20-30 minutes for the first tire (depending on how organized my stuff is or isn't), with about 2-4 minutes for the actual mounting of the tire. The next tire might be closer to 10-15 minutes as I remember all the things I've forgotten since the last time I've glued a tire.

A tubular tire rolling off a rim used to be grounds for an immediate 10 day suspension. The first warning was a note included in the envelope that held your license which clearly stated that a rolled tire is a suspendable offense and that the warning was the note in the envelope. Most suspensions had to be preceded by a warning so this way a racer who rolled a tire could be suspended immediately. I only remember one or two years like that.

As some have pointed out base tapes do roll (usually on defective, old, or some tire compromised in some way - solvents etc). I've seen brand new tires roll base tapes (I never bought another one of those, and I removed the basetape on the tires I still had), I've seen iffy situations where the basetape was compromised due to age/etc.

However, for a glued tire to roll means either the rim got really, really, really hot (30 minutes of descending down a switchback mountain) or the tire was simply not glued right.

If a tire is not glued right and it fails, that is NOT a mechanical problem. It is an installer problem.

If a shop installed it, the rider should sue them and let them use some of their liability insurance. This also calls them on their gluing policies - i.e. someone who knows how to do it actually does it, they charge the $50-60 per tire they should charge, and they make the customer sign a waiver on no refunds on the tire or labor for any reason. One shop, now out of business, used to have their "pit slaves" do the gluing work - kids who didn't understand liability, the forces the tire will have to withstand, the seriousness of an incident where someone might die or become paralyzed. This is not the way to glue tires, and it showed in the number of rolled tires the shop had.

A properly glued tire will not come off, even with a lot of directed force. If you jam a screwdriver under the basetape, shove it through until it sticks out the other side, the tire should not give, even to the point that you point the screwdriver directly at the hub (i.e. lever it 90 degrees) you will peel off maybe 4-5 inches of tire. If this is not the case you need to reglue the tire.

When I dismount a tire I do exactly that - jam a screwdriver under the basetape, pray I don't shred the tire casing in doing so, then roll the screwdriver under the basetape for a little more than 1/3 of the wheel. If my glue job was really marginal then I can take the rest off by pulling on the tire and it won't destroy the tire. Usually pulling on a well glued tire will damage the threads holding the tire together - the threads sewing the casing shut will either stretch, break, or break the casing. If not a marginal glue job I have to roll the screwdriver under at least half the tire. A satisfactory glue job will require doing the screwdriver rolling under all but maybe a quarter of the tire.

This type of confidence in my glue jobs allows me to do things like skip my back tire in corners, powerslide to avoid things, jump as soon as I feel like I can pedal while exiting a turn, etc., and never worry about rolling a tire.

A teammate of mine had an incident where someone hit a chainlink fence perpendicular, and right next to, the race course (the race went through a gate in the fence). The guy bounced back into the field (basically bounced backwards into the field), my teammate bounced off of him, landed sideways on his rims at about 30-35 mph (i.e. he was pointing perpendicular to everyone else), almost highsided as he bounced in the air, and somehow stayed upright. He rolled about 2 spokes worth of rear tire - maybe 4-5 inches - and the tire, now next to the side of the rim, jammed so hard into his rear brake that the brake shoe shot out of the brake shoe holder. Because the tire then hit the frame and locked up the rear wheel, my teammate went for a free lap. The official was about to suspend him (see first bit of this post) and my teammate challenged him to try and dismount any more of the tire. The official could not, realized that the tire was so well glued that it didn't roll all the way off, and let my teammate get a wheel. That's when he found out the brake block was missing so he didn't get back in anyway.

A rolled tire is like a loose stem, bar, improperly installed chain, loose quick release, etc. Should not happen.

But if you haven't rolled a tire in 23 years then that's a reasonable record. None in your lifetime would be an improvement.
cdr

Yep. I've rolled ONE. It was a real cheapie that wasn't stitched properly and just wouldn't seat correctly on the rim, so no amount of glue was going to hold it. Luckily, I was the only person that went down in the race.

And you are right, if its glued properly, it should be almost impossible to get off without damaging the tire. When I flat, I just slice across the tire with a knife and peel it off the rim, and even doing that, its a pain to get the tire off the rim when its really glued well.

OT again - the ex-USCF guy who wrote some stuff on the USCF:

http://www.stanford.edu/~learnest/cyclops/

Go up one level to see all his various ramblings.

cdr



Thanks for the link.

Well, thanks for the info and opinions. I don't have a dedicated road race wheelset either so deep rims are not on the agenda. I'll probably just stick with clinchers since next year might be my last racing season for a while again. Life just keeps getting in the way of my fun.

Oh, and I completely understand the sentiments about people who cause crashes needlessly, but then again I think the pigheaded guys who do the entire race with their front wheel sandwiched in between two rear wheels, or dive into the inside of corners next to people who are already headed toward the apex, are more of a concern than the occasional rolled tire... at least in 4s and 5s that's the bigger concern.

I raced a crit on a rear clincher last year and had a pinch flat heading into a corner resulting in a crash. This year I raced all my crits on tubulars and rolled one in my last race resulting in a crash. Don't ask me what to race on.

Glue them on better and they won't roll.