Manufacturer, Retailer, Survey and Consumer Feedback - The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly -- 3 Experiences

Here are three experiences I've had in the past month with online retailers. Why are there so many flakes in bike retailing?


The Good: Peter White Cycles. I ordered a Velocity Rim from PWC and received it in 3 days -- New Hampshire to New Jersey. Good price and very reasonable shipping charge.

The Bad: BIKEMANIA.BIZ. This is a New Jersey based web retailer. As far as I can tell, they have little or no inventory, and are basically a drop-ship operation. I ordered a rim, and paid immediately via PayPal. I was informed a few days later that the rim was out of stock and it took about a week to get a refund. Why should it take a week to get a refund via PayPal?

The Ugly: Every Bicycle Tire This Florida based business advertises just about every bike tire, rim, and wheel made under the sun. How could they possibly stock all that? They don't, this is another drop-ship operation that's probably run out of someone's bedroom. I ordered a rim on 08/14/2008 and paid immediately via PayPal. I was informed that the rim was out of stock on 08/18/2008 at which point I requested a refund, and never heard from them again, despite sending two more e-mails requesting a refund. I have been forced to open a dispute with PayPal to get my money back from these people.

Only one good net buying experience out of 3; not very encouraging.

Did you search the net for reviews or feedback before ordering?

Just wondering.

Did you search the net for reviews or feedback before ordering?

Just wondering.

No I did not, although I've heard both good and bad things about Peter White, my experience with Peter White Cycles was very good.

The Good: Peter White Cycles. I ordered a Velocity Rim from PWC and received it in 3 days -- New Hampshire to New Jersey. Good price and very reasonable shipping charge.


Did you return the Velocity rim?

Did you return the Velocity rim?

I'm calm enough now to tell the whole story. I've been so pissed this entire week, I couldn't see straight.

A while back, I found a NOS Schwinn Superior frame on eBay. Superiors were fillet brazed frames made in Schwinn's custom shop alongside the Paramounts. This frame was made in 1978, the last year for Schwinn's fillet brazed frames.

I want to build up this frame using a modern Campy drive train, but I still want it to look sort of 70's bling-tastic.

Last year I found a set of NOS Campy Veloce hubs on eBay. They look to be about 2005 vintage, so they are nice and shiny and would look good on a 70's vintage frame. The front is 32 hole, the rear is 36 hole 9/10 speed.

I was thinking about appropriate rims for some time. I settled on silver Velocity Synergy rims, because I heard good things about them here on this forum, and they would look appropriate on the type of project I'm working on.

I found a 36 hole rear asymmetrical Synergy rim locally. Now all I needed was a 32 hole symmetrical for the front, and I'd be cooking with gas. Simple. Right? WRONG!

First thing I did was Google "Velocity, Synergy, Silver". I got a list of retailers. I tried BikeManiaBiz first, because they are in Jersey, and I figured that the shipping would take the least amount of time. Two days after placing my order with Bikemania, I got an email telling me that the rims were out of stock, and they would issue a refund. The refund took a week. That annoyed me because I didn't see why a PayPal payment refund should take a week. All you have to do is drag your ass over to the computer, pull up your PayPal account, and hit the refund button. In anycase, they did refund the money.

Back to Google. I found this "Every Bike Tire" place that claimed to have every bike tire/rim/wheel made on the planet. Their website says, "authorized Velocity dealer", "PayPal verified" among other things. A good bet, right? I found out otherwise, boy did I find out. I placed an order, and paid with a direct PayPal cash transfer -- not a credit card.

After 4 days, I hadn't received an order confirmation from EBT, so I inquired about my order. I was informed by EBT that the rim was out of stock until mid-October at the earliest. I didn't want to wait 2+ months, so I sent them an email asking them, very politely, to cancel my order and refund my money. I never heard from them again.

While I was waiting on my refund from EBT, I went back to Google and found Peter White Cycles. I called PWC and was informed that they had the rim in stock. I paid with a credit card and 3 days later I had the rim. Thank you PWC. :thumb:

Over the labor day weekend, I built the wheels. I laced up the hubs to the rims using Sapim double butted spokes. I was quite pleased with how they came out. The look is just what I want.

So, you see, I'm not looking to scam Velocity out of any free merchandise. I BOUGHT AND PAID FOR THE RIMS AT RETAIL. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. I LIKE THE RIMS. I DON'T LIKE BEING ROBBED. If anyone at Velocity is reading this, please understand: You can have the best product in the world, but if you engage in sleazy business practices, your business is doomed to FAILURE. When you defend your thieving dealers, you are an even bigger sleaze-bag than the thief. All I want is what I am owed, all I want is to recover the money that was stolen from me. Understand?

Here is the wheel set I built. I'm so disgusted by the entire experience, I'm tempted to cut the rims off with a Sawzall.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3j6z2/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/VS01.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3j6z2/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/VS02.jpg

I don't see how you can blame Velocity. They have little control over dealers.

That, and you really need to relax a little. Seriously. Anger hurts most those who feel it.

I don't see how you can blame Velocity. They have little control over dealers.

That, and you really need to relax a little. Seriously. Anger hurts most those who feel it.

As far as I'm concerned when they defend a thief, they join the ranks of the scum-bags.

As far as I'm concerned when they defend a thief, they join the ranks of the scum-bags.

Get a grip, seriously. They never defended a thief, what they did was try to make good on someone elses screw up. A retailer gave you horrible service and the manufacturer offered you product for free, yet you are all paranoid that they'll give you inferior rims. In all honesty you sound really nutty. Ask a friend to read what you wrote in your other thread and get their opinion on how you sound.

Get a grip, seriously. They never defended a thief, what they did was try to make good on someone elses screw up. A retailer gave you horrible service and the manufacturer offered you product for free, yet you are all paranoid that they'll give you inferior rims. In all honesty you sound really nutty. Ask a friend to read what you wrote in your other thread and get their opinion on how you sound.

You are being watched.

http://lotus.uib.no/norgeslexi/kronologien/artikler/bilder/putin.jpg

Here is the wheel set I built. I'm so disgusted by the entire experience, I'm tempted to cut the rims off with a Sawzall.

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3j6z2/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/VS01.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3j6z2/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/VS02.jpg

That is a nice set of wheels you have. :thumb:

I understand being pissed for being cheated. :mad:

I don't see how you can blame Velocity. They have little control over dealers.

That, and you really need to relax a little. Seriously. Anger hurts most those who feel it.

Read his other thread and you will understand even less how he can blame Velocity.

You are being watched.

http://lotus.uib.no/norgeslexi/kronologien/artikler/bilder/putin.jpg

Um, okay. This really helps to make you sound even more reasonable and less nuts. :rolleyes:

Have a look at this lying piece of filth that runs EBT. This is from his website. I'm not making this up, this creep says that he'd "rather croak than have an unhappy customer". That's another promise this thieving scumbag won't keep. If only.

http://www.everybicycletire.com/IMAGES/WebsiteCommon/RideGuarantee3.jpg

http://www.everybicycletire.com/Shopping/t-rideguarantee.aspx

Greetings,

On behalf of EB Tire, our customer has been given a refund, an explanation and an apology. In all fairness, our website has a refund policy and our customer wasn't aware of all his options. It is not our policy to disclose customer correspondences, however much of what the customer wrote on this thread, occurred after both Velocity and we responded.

We are extremely happy that when people read things like this, it reflects well on our supplier Velocity. As a merchant, we value our relationships with our suppliers and we work hard on behalf of them. Our supplier went to bat for us because they recognize this. We learned a valuable lesson and I'm grateful for the opportunity.

Thank you
Andy
Owner
EBTire

Putin can go home now.

Somehow, I just knew there was more to the story!

Now, another apology would be nice!!!

Well, there it is, after a month. That's all I wanted, my money back.

*Image removed by admin

This goes to show you the power of the internet. It's better than a 12 gauge.

As for an apology or explanation, I never got either. I only got some action out of these people after I started ranting on the net.

Let this be a lesson to you "big business is good", "authority is good" Rush Limbaugh types.

1) Never roll over and take it meekly up the ass.

2) When wronged, fight back. You may go down, but it's better to go down swinging.

3) When wronged, go after the higher ups if you can. Example: Being harrassed by the local badge thugs? Don't bother with filing a complaint against the cops. At best you'll make them laugh, at worst you'll get clubbed to death in the police station for "resisting". Instead protest in front of the Mayor's house, harass him at council meetings. Make his life a miserable hell. Make sure you've got plenty of witnesses. Make him the object of laughter. Eventually you'll get action.

4) The "mock attack", humiliating your opponents, is better than an IED.


Always question authority. Always resist a wrong. Never go along to get along, that's the surest way to hell.

I'm done with these people now. I will not do business either again. I thank the owners and mods of Bike Forums for the opportunity to present my case. It's rare to find people who say they believe in freedom and really mean it.

If the mods want to lock these two threads, or delete them, that's their business, I have no objections.

If anyone wants to know anything more about this, send me a PM. I won't post anymore in these threads.

* I've removed the image.

Brian
Forum admin

Well, there it is, after a month. That's all I wanted, my money back.

*Image removed by admin

This goes to show you the power of the internet. It's better than a 12 gauge.

As for an apology or explanation, I never got either. I only got some action out of these people after I started ranting on the net.

Let this be a lesson to you "big business is good", "authority is good" Rush Limbaugh types.

1) Never roll over and take it meekly up the ass.

2) When wronged, fight back. You may go down, but it's better to go down swinging.

3) When wronged, go after the higher ups if you can. Example: Being harrassed by the local badge thugs? Don't bother with filing a complaint against the cops. At best you'll make them laugh, at worst you'll get clubbed to death in the police station for "resisting". Instead protest in front of the Mayor's house, harass him at council meetings. Make his life a miserable hell. Make sure you've got plenty of witnesses. Make him the object of laughter. Eventually you'll get action.

4) The "mock attack", humiliating your opponents, is better than an IED.


Always question authority. Always resist a wrong. Never go along to get along, that's the surest way to hell.

I'm done with these people now. I will not do business either again. I thank the owners and mods of Bike Forums for the opportunity to present my case. It's rare to find people who say they believe in freedom and really mean it.

If the mods want to lock these two threads, or delete them, that's their business, I have no objections.

If anyone wants to know anything more about this, send me a PM. I won't post anymore in these threads.



:cry:

Our emissary / buyer “Giggles” (Gayle) will be back at Interbike this year in her famous orange and blue outfit meeting with tire and wheel manufacturers. A real math whiz, she loves building wheels for people and really looks forward to the trip every year. My partner and I appreciate her work ethic and her willingness to learn on the job so much, that we bought her a bike. Although she doesn’t ride it near as much as she should, it is a lot of fun for her when she does. She likes her job. So when Mr. “Hit Them Hard” Fissile wants to overthrow the free market for his refund, it makes a woman like Giggles not so fond of what she does.

Giggles, the rest of the gang and I, always work real hard for our customers. We stake our lively-hoods and our careers based on the Internet and the reputation we have. To have a customer slander us for a three-week-old refund makes us think we are more vulnerable to these unreasonable attacks than we should be. If our mutual friend decides to libel and slander us more, I’m sure the good folks here at the Bike Forum will terminate his membership. We will pursue all comments made by this individual and address them. Thank you to everybody who wrote back to this guy and told him he was way off base.

Personally, it has been very gratifying to read all the posts and see the transitioning of the respondents from sympathetic in the beginning to not sympathetic at all later on. The comment about being sent inferior rims is the one that told me we were dealing with a person not likely to be easily pleased. His last post almost leaves the reader speechless.

As a business, we will look for ways to exceed customer expectations in the future, but in this case, we can all agree, this customer went unnecessarily too far. The valuable lesson for us is that we can do an even better job than we already do and with a little more work, we can make it so that everyone of our customers will have a positive experience.

Although we haven’t regularly participated in any forums up until now, we will reverse that trend later this year by asking Giggles if she could introduce herself to some wheel building groups to talk about her Interbike discoveries. Thank you again and we look forward to becoming part of the community.


We genuinely appreciate this opportunity,
Respectfully,
Andy
Owner
Every Bicycle Tire .com

I appreciate the fact that you took the time to join and comment, and that this member has been taken care of, even if it did not turn out to be the ideal transaction for either party.

Gayle should be on the lookout for a handsome dude with a blood red beard and a mischievous grin.

Although we haven’t regularly participated in any forums up until now, we will reverse that trend later this year...Thank you again and we look forward to becoming part of the community.

Welcome to BF. Classy post.

I hadn't heard of you guys until this little controversy but I've been looking around your site over the past couple of days. Will definitely keep you in mind next time I need something.

I like the way your site is organized by tire/wheel size -- my bikes have 700c, 26-inch and 27-inch wheels; too many sites make it too difficult to filter out just the sizes that I need on tires or rims. Seems like a simple idea, but too many sites forget it (sadly, my favorite online tire retailer in the past, www.biketiresdirect.com, used to have shop-by-size, but they just redesigned their site and it disappeared:mad:...though their service continues to be great).

Anyway, I'll keep you in mind when I need something...

I received this email from John Black of Velocity today -- Sept 18, 2008


You can't even apologize without being insulting(my real name is black) Unbelievable. Don't worry, you have not caused me one bit of distress, besides, I don't believe that your apology is sincere, it sounds far too sarcastic. I have never come across a more ungrateful, insulting, condescending, distrustul, bitter, angry, mean person in my life.

I see you have backed off from calling what EB Tire did as "blatant thievery", and now just refer to it as "sloppy business practices".
Does this mean you are going to be a man and publicly take back all the
slanderous things you spewed about me and my company?
I admit that I went off on Mr. Black and his business prematurely, without cause and said some nasty things. I'm convinced that Mr. Black is an honest businessman whose only fault is that he is a bit too credulous.

My sincere apologies to Velocity rim, its owners and employees.

Nice and tidy finish.

Oh, it's libel, by the way.

Thanks Brian. Lawyer speak has never been my strong suit.

Even though I accepted Fissle's apology on the other thread, I wish he would tell the whole story. For instance, the last email that I sent him that prompted his apology, he failed to include his part of the email that promted my response that he posted.

For what it's worth(my opinion that is), Andy, Hugh and Gayle at EBT are good people, honest and hardworking. They take pride in what they do and they strive to do it well. We like them...alot and they have our full support. I know this statement puts me on record as supporting unscrupulous companies, at least according to Fissile. Oh well.

John, you forgot your tags.

Sarcasm tags? You lost me, what do you mean?

Hi John, sarcasm tags is one of those internetisms, basically faked HTML code to signify sarcasm, or a rant, it's a text based alternative to emoticons

<sarcasm> message would be here </sarcasm>

or <rant> Message </rant>

That said, here are the tags you deserve to use, after all this:

<patience of a saint> what ever message you wish to insert here. :D</patience of a saint>


Sarcasm tags? You lost me, what do you mean?

Tom, perhaps his question was a rhetorical (and therefore sarcastic) one. ;)

Maybe so ;)

No, really, it was a genuine question. Thanks for the answer.