Folding Bikes - advice needed

ok, I have been researching for some time now.

I leaning towards a Bike Friday, but might also consider a Bromton. I do not like the Birdy's looks (front fork is wacky to me) and the Dahon seems not as folder friendly?

I commute 8 mile each way about 4 days a week. I travel some and would like to have a bike to ride in the evening of what ever bigger city I am in. When I am home I do not plan to fold the bike too often, unless I want to throw it in my smaller car.

So far the bikes that stand out to me are the tikit and the pocket rocket (in that order) - does this sound right for my needs?

wants in order
1. good at the 16 mile commute - pannier required as I do not like wearing my gear
2. travel friendly - airline travel that is
3. fits in a small car - mid life crisis
4. I weigh 215 lbs and falling (due to commuting)
5. I may be called an abusive rider - bunny hops, curb jumps, all around go where I please

My current favorite bike is a early 80's Kuwahara road bike with some upgrades for a commuter - brooks, crane creek brakes, fenders, and rear rack, but otherwise stock. It is a tank, but rides like a dream.

Price is not so important as is quality

comments? Am I on the right track?

thanks - rod in nebraska

I don't use my Bike Friday for commuting because it's easier to ride my really cheap old steel bike and lock it up outside, than to fuss with folding the Bike Friday and dragging it up the elevator. I only use the Bike Friday for recreational rides at home or on trips.

I chose the Bike Friday because it can fit like a road bike. I find the Brompton to be too upright.

Hi,

track may be right. tikit and brommi being both high quality bikes. But more infos please:
What do you mean by commute - is it multimodal (bus or crowded underground or train?)
How small is the trunk of your small car?
What about terrain, is it hilly, how many gears do you need?
What is your fav riding style, position on the bike?
I only ride a brommi, cant say about tikit, so as far as your wants are concerned:

1. the brommi will eat up 16 miles with no problem if it fits your anatomy, ability to take gear is one of the best and most practical (at least if you mean by gear your stuff you take for work. The brompton specific front bags (or carradice for brompton will take 22litre to 28 litre depending which model, the rear rack bag can take 20 litre. The ability to take "normal" bike panniers (like ortlieb eg.) is poor couse of heel clearing isssues. I have modified ortlieb frontrollers that I put at the rear, which is possible cause of rather small (women) feet.

2. no disassembly needed with the b. will pack very quick - the needed suitcase will be rather huge though.

3. The b. will go in almost any car I can think of. See also this thread:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=455601&highlight=car+trunk

4. Your weight should be okay with the b. But depending how heavy travel gear you want to carry you can be at/over the limits. bfold says so: Weight limit: 245 lbs according to Brompton. However, with the harsh road conditions in New York City, we notice people over 200 lbs usually experience broken rear spokes. We have done a bit of research into this and have developed a very strong optional wheel for our customers.

5. see 4.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply. I will try and get a bit more specific.

the commute
I commute 8 miles 1 way just me and the bike. It is mostly flat with a 1 mile gradual hill. Of course right at the end of the commute is a 1/3 mile killer hill that I use the lowest gear on the bike for. Otherwise I pretty much use one of the 5 gears on the smaller chain ring. I rarely shift into the large ring - it could be eliminated.

the gear/stuff
pants and shirt rolled, can of soda, a few tools, some lunch, piece of wood and a couple of knives (I am a woodcarver), small notebook of todo items for work and that is about it most days. All of this is thrown into a grocery type pannier.

riding position
I like to ride on the hoods, and do not like mtn bars that much, drops or 3 speed bars are for me/.

Car
Right now I have a small 2 seater car, but plan to buy small pick-up next year - so this is not too much of a concern.

Thanks for your thoughtful advice.

rod

Thanks for the reply. I will try and get a bit more specific.

the commute
I commute 8 miles 1 way just me and the bike. It is mostly flat with a 1 mile gradual hill. Of course right at the end of the commute is a 1/3 mile killer hill that I use the lowest gear on the bike for. Otherwise I pretty much use one of the 5 gears on the smaller chain ring. I rarely shift into the large ring - it could be eliminated.

the gear/stuff
pants and shirt rolled, can of soda, a few tools, some lunch, piece of wood and a couple of knives (I am a woodcarver), small notebook of todo items for work and that is about it most days. All of this is thrown into a grocery type pannier.

riding position
I like to ride on the hoods, and do not like mtn bars that much, drops or 3 speed bars are for me/.

Car
Right now I have a small 2 seater car, but plan to buy small pick-up next year - so this is not too much of a concern.

Thanks for your thoughtful advice.

rod

A lot of people seem to come in here asking for advice on a folding bike without saying much about why they want it to fold or what, exactly, they expect to do with it once folded.

I understand you want to put your bike in the trunk. You could probably fit your Kuwahara in your trunk if you took it apart completely. There are folders/detachables available which are anywhere from slightly easier to compact than that to a few seconds to compact. The question is, how often do you plan on doing it and how much are you willing to compromise on your other requirements?

Also, I get the impression that there are other circumstances when you want to fold your bike. What are they, what is it specifically about these situations that requires a folded bike, how small would you like the bike to fold in these circumstances, how often would you like to do it, and how much are you willing to compromise your other requirements in order to meet these specifications?

Ideally, it would be best if you could give a list of specific activities with the importance of each activity rated on a scale of 1-10. For example you might say:
panniers 10/10
put bike under desk of approximate size xx by yy 5/10
etc

Hi again, reading your last post I would lean to Bike Friday also:

The gear you want to carry does not need the brompton bags (it would be convenient though). But a saddlebag and a front bar-bag should be able to carry your stuff.

Car
Right now I have a small 2 seater car, but plan to buy small pick-up next year - so this is not too much of a concern...
Hmhm okay, so you don't seem to need an ultra small fold like the brommi offers, if you are willing to disassembly the bike for air travel and fold it when it goes into your pick-up car (I don't think it convenient to disassembly any bike for in car storage).

The brommi is at its best when a combination of quite small fold (from your post I don't see the need for that small fold), bearable carrying size e.g. climbing some stairs (very compact, easy to grab) and riding ability over longer distance is needed. So I would say the best terrain for the brompton is inner city multimode riding. When ridden distance is shorter and carried/bus/train distance is longer, the b. has a strong competitor: the CarryMe (which seems not for you).

Strange enough, another area for the brompton is long distance/world travel and touring, for being ultra robust and able to carry travel gear and the ability to fold so small that to take the sudden opportunity and hop into some car of a new acquaintance/train without paying extra is a huge plus. Many have done world touring with the b. But still I think for you intended use its not the best horse.

Hills are not the strongest ability of b. (though with aftermarket modification like Schlumpf Speedhub or different hubs can be increased, complicated).

riding position
I like to ride on the hoods, and do not like mtn bars that much, drops or 3 speed bars are for me/. What are 3 speed bars? Well, the brompton has straight (~ mtb) bars (when s-typ-stem =lower riding position) or curved bars (when m-typ-stem = higher riding position) but also with the curved m-bars you get no backsweep (if that's what you mean with 3speed bar) but your hands have a position like on an mtn bar - only much more narrow together which helps the wrists a little. Actually almost all Folders have some kind of rather straight bars, so for folding issues.

If you want drops, have you taken Bike Fridays Pocket Rocket on your list?

Ah, another thought: You seem to want "The ONE bike" for different purposes. While I cant blame you for that, since I myself feel its kind of beautiful, clean, "zen-like" to have only one bike, its not always practical but a bad compromise. Since money is not that much of an object, why not have more bikes?

Will you stay with two cars? Get an ultracute brommi for your cute small car and let it comfort your crisis. Use it for the bike trip at destination and maybe for airtravel. Stay with your big bike for your 16 mile commute.

Or do you really need to fold the bike for your commute? Have the Bike Friday for that.

When you fly: what does the bike need to do at destination? Just stroll around town to sightseeing? Get the CarryMe for that. Or do you want to bike out of the airport and have a biketour at your destination, all your gear with you? Get the Bike Friday World Tourist with suitcase trolley.

Most of all: Do testride before bying.

If you still want to have ONE bike and quality is more important than money: what about the birdy?: many say its (one of) the best all-rounders

Edit: ah sorry I overlooked you don't fancy the looks which I understand, not very clean and simple.

Tthe Birdy is good but the op diesn't really like its look. After all its German so I would agree :P

No on a serious note I believe it is a close one between the Bike Friday Tikit and the Brommie. I own a 6 speed Brommie and absolutely love it and I've test ridden a 24 speed Tikit. Like you I used to ride a very good larger wheeled bike but once introduced to folders that was it! The practicality, ergonomics and fun bowled me over.

If you do not the folded size to be incredibly compact but quick and effecient and still reasonably small, then the Tikit edges it if you opt for the 24 speed. This is combination of a Microshift derallieur with a 3 speed SRAM hub giving some wonderful gearing range and versatility to the bike. Aside from that a 6 speed Brommie comes very highly recommended. You can read my review on:http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=420368&highlight=speed+6+brompton

Pics of Tikit I test rode below. She was one fast bike and a great fold, very innovative. You can be assured of great customer service stateside too from Bike Friday. The bike also looks way nicer in person. What I like about Bike Friday is they don't use a one-frame fits all policy. I have found with some other makes they say suitable up to 6' 2" or 6' 4 etc. Then when I sit on the with the seatpost at full extension my knees are still slightly too bent because I have long legs for my height at 6' exactly. This is why BF do small, medium and large frame options and it works well. Brompton do the same but using an option of 3 seatposts. I've seen a 6' 8" guy ride through Hyde Park on a Brompton with the proper leg stretch posture. If you have the budget, I believe the 24 speed Tikit will allow you to commute and do long leisure rides in all sorts of situations.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3242/2733723396_9d83bed0ff_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3254/2732892815_d71086b5b1_b.jpg

Tthe Birdy is good but the op diesn't really like its look. After all its German so I would agree
Pah, hurry up, get back in that muddy wormhole you crept out of :mad:



:D:p

Not the smallest folds but worth considering, especially since your intended use doesn't require a tiny package.

Airnimal Joey Commute (http://www.airnimal.eu/Joey/Commute.php)
Dahon Cadenza 8 w/ Alfine Hub (http://www.dahon.com/us/cadenza8.htm)

Regards
T

Nice bikes you have there Timo

Pah, hurry up, get back in that muddy wormhole you crept out of :mad:



:D:p

Go Somna! :p

Based on your description, there are more folders on the market that will suit your needs than won't. You may have to change the bar to suit your preference (which will most likely affect the compactness of the fold.

Nice bikes you have there Timo

The Cadenza seems almost a bargain at that price with the Alfine hub. Since it has an eccentric bottom bracket, I would expect that with proper chain tensioning the OP could continue to jump curbs without the chain falling off. :thumb:

The OP may be interested in this photo essay (http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=3Tzut&doc_id=3085&v=vF).

Regards
T

Not the smallest folds but worth considering, especially since your intended use doesn't require a tiny package.

Airnimal Joey Commute (http://www.airnimal.eu/Joey/Commute.php)
Dahon Cadenza 8 w/ Alfine Hub (http://www.dahon.com/us/cadenza8.htm)

Regards
T


Both of these would seem to excellent choices, though I have not read enough to know about the packing / unpacking time and options.

I would also throw in the Bike Friday Pocket Lllama. The fold is certainly not that great, but it does fold and goes in a bag, has an extensive travel system, great support from BF, very configurable and sizable, etc. I think it also tough enough to take some abuse, or fun as the case may be. I could be wrong but I don't think I would do anything too abusive on a BF tikit... It is a great design, but at 200+ (as I am), I would think that bad things would certainly happen over time with jumping curbs and bunny hopping, though I know it has been done.

Just my .02.... Good discussion btw and good suggestions... Thanks for the link to the tour with the modified Cadenza's!

Don't discount the Dahon 20" folders either - I have a MU SL for my commute which is a similar length and it eats up the miles. I think for your circumstanced the Speed TR may be right - but there is a good article here:

http://www.gaerlan.com/dahon/pack.htm

If you want to pack it to do airline travel.

Of course, if you're not folding it that often, I would rec one of the Dahon mini-bikes (2008 model) if you can get hold of them (Smooth-hound/Hammerhead...)

ok, I have been researching for some time now.

I leaning towards a Bike Friday, but might also consider a Bromton. I do not like the Birdy's looks (front fork is wacky to me) and the Dahon seems not as folder friendly?

I commute 8 mile each way about 4 days a week. I travel some and would like to have a bike to ride in the evening of what ever bigger city I am in. When I am home I do not plan to fold the bike too often, unless I want to throw it in my smaller car.

So far the bikes that stand out to me are the tikit and the pocket rocket (in that order) - does this sound right for my needs?

wants in order
1. good at the 16 mile commute - pannier required as I do not like wearing my gear
2. travel friendly - airline travel that is
3. fits in a small car - mid life crisis
4. I weigh 215 lbs and falling (due to commuting)
5. I may be called an abusive rider - bunny hops, curb jumps, all around go where I please

My current favorite bike is a early 80's Kuwahara road bike with some upgrades for a commuter - brooks, crane creek brakes, fenders, and rear rack, but otherwise stock. It is a tank, but rides like a dream.

Price is not so important as is quality

comments? Am I on the right track?

thanks - rod in nebraska

http://bp3.blogger.com/_vUEhS0lU3eU/SA0sE4Jl03I/AAAAAAAAE68/OiVnpoufRR4/s400/Tikit+Cargo+2.JPG

I've had a Tikit in my stable now for 9 months and really love the bike. It handles commuting duty well and is the bike I grab the most. The fast fold that doesn't require any adjustment of your cockpit [bars, steerer, seatpost, etc..] is wonderful and encourages you to fold the bike without thought making it very useful when out running errands. I find it rides like a full size bike and you can size it with a choice of frame sizes, standard bike stems and bars - something I had issues with on other bikes like the Dahon D7 I also own. My longest commute/ride has been a 25km one way commute on the highway to the next town for a mtg. The Tikit handled that ride well and I was easily able to grab a transit connection at the start and end of my day. I have a 2 pannier front rack that will accept standard panniers and a rear rack that will accept some smaller panniers. A rear rack that will accept full size panniers is in the works and should be available in the not too distant future if you want to carry 4 panniers. Bike Friday has been very pleasant to work with and I'm happy to be riding a bike that was hand built in the US.

Thanks for all the replies. Vik, I appreciate you documenting your experiences regarding the tikit and big dummy. That is the road I am working towards to become car light.

I think the tikit will meet most of my needs with a small foot print and being travel friendly. The dummy will increase my cargo abilities leaving the car in the driveway more often

Thanks, again - now on to what color...

rod

two tone is nice.