Bicycle Mechanics - Trouble adjusting front derailleur

I have a bike that is a triple and could not get to the biggest gear on the front. I tried to follow a guide and adjusted the low gear limit, but no matter what I do I cannot get the high gear limit to let the highest gear not rub the chain against the cage. Ive tried following the steps from a few different guides but cannot get it to work. Can anyone give me some tips on what I could be doing wrong?

Does it rub regardless of the position on the rear cogs?

It seems to rub on the lowest two cogs. The front shifter also needs to click twice in order to go onto the middle ring, and does not want to go on the largest ring no matter how I adjust it.

Is the derailleur hitting the stop screw when it's all of the way out?

I'm an old school downtube shifter sort of guy, so I'm not experienced with those indexed shifters. That said, I've read that a lot of problem with indexed shifters are due to incorrect cable tension. You might try tightening the cable adjuster, making the cable casing a little longer.

You may have too much slack in the cable. Try pulling the cable firmly by hand while turning the crank and see if the derailleur will shift to the largest chainring. If it will, then the high limit screw is ok but the cable needs to be tightened at the barrel adjuster or at the fd's cable anchor bolt.

I can get it on the highest chainring by pulling on the cable.

How do I adjust the cable tension? I tried turning knobs near the shifter but it doesn't seem to be tightening the cable. I have a 105/ultegra mix if it helps.. everything 105 except rear derailleur.

I can get it on the highest chainring by pulling on the cable.

How do I adjust the cable tension? I tried turning knobs near the shifter but it doesn't seem to be tightening the cable. I have a 105/ultegra mix if it helps.. everything 105 except rear derailleur.

It may be that the cable tensioner is at its maximum. In that case you will have to undo the cable clamp on the FD and start from the beginning. I suggest that you follow the instructions at Park tool.com to the letter.
Take your time and do not miss out any steps given. Indexed front shifters are a real pain and your comes with a trimming position so it's important to follow the instructions exactly.

From your second posting ("The front shifter needs to click twice...") I believe you have STI brifters, is that right?

As a first step, click the inner lever several times to get the cable as relaxed as possible and the chain on the granny (smallest) chainring. Then screw the downtube or headtube cable adjuster all the way in and back it out one turn.

Then loosen the cable anchor bolt on the derailler, pull all of the slack out of the cable and tighten the bolt. That will get all of the excess slack out of the cable.

Finally, try shifting to the middle and big ring. If the chain won't shift easily, unscrew the cable adjusting barrel (which tightens the cable) in 1/2 turn increments until the shifting is accurate.

I had a similar problem on my 3x, did every thing you've done over and over eventually I couldn't even get into the large ring. After a talking with a MTBer (they use 3x and get thier bikes prety meesy) he suggested that I clean out the STI and replace the cable. Dried lube and grit get into the works and keep the rachets from holding and a steched worn DR cable dosn't help. Everthing is working fine now and I wish I'd cleaned it all in the first place would ahve saved hours of frustration.

I've tried following the park tools guide word for wor,d the problem seems to be even if i remove the cable attached to the front derailleur and move it by hand manually, it doesnt seem to clear enough to get on the biggest chain ring without the chain rubbing on it.

Well, I relubbed everything and i can get it on the biggest chainring now by hand and with less rub. It seems if I could tighten the cables it'd be fine, how do i do that? I have brifters but can't seem to find anywhere to tighten it.

Either at the attachment point on the derailleur, or, the barrel adjuster.

I'm not trying to slam you, but, if people would put their hometowns on here, they might find someone willing to show them how to do things.

Does anyone have a picture of what they are talking about for adjusting the cable? http://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/ftderadjust5.jpg

That's where I tightened it on the lowest gear setting (smallest chainring, largest cog) but it still isn't tight enough I think.

If you haven't already tried this my advice is to start over at the very beginning. There are several adjustments that affect front derailleur performance and each adjustment affects the others. My experience has been that once a front derailleur adjustment has been screwed up many mechanics tend to pile one misadjustment onto another in an attempt to compensate.

Go to Park tool dot com. Completely disconnect your shift cable. Start at step 1 with the position of the derailleur on the seat tube. Do the steps in order because that's important.

If you haven't already tried this my advice is to start over at the very beginning. There are several adjustments that affect front derailleur performance and each adjustment affects the others. My experience has been that once a front derailleur adjustment has been screwed up many mechanics tend to pile one misadjustment onto another in an attempt to compensate.

Go to Park tool dot com. Completely disconnect your shift cable. Start at step 1 with the position of the derailleur on the seat tube. Do the steps in order because that's important.

I have tried a few times from start to finish. Each time the problem is that no matter how i set the high gear limit, it wont shift to the largest chainring itself. I can do it manually, but the cage rubs against the chain.

I have tried a few times from start to finish. Each time the problem is that no matter how i set the high gear limit, it wont shift to the largest chainring itself. I can do it manually, but the cage rubs against the chain.

How close are the chainrings to the right chain stay?

Uploaded some pictures to help:

http://i33.tinypic.com/wilf0h.jpg

It's less than an inch away from the farthest away part of the chainstay.

I'm trying to get pictures of the derailleur to show you guys the settings I have it on, but my camera is being difficult. I'll upload as soon as I can. Thanks for any help given.

edit: Right now, the screw for the high limiter is really really far up in comparison to the low one.

Did it just start this?? Did you have a fall?? It sounds like maybe the entire fd may have rotated slightly on the tube......

I had a small fall when first using clipless but it's been like this for a little while I think.

http://i34.tinypic.com/2qn8p6x.jpg

Pic of what it looks like on the top derailleur. The left side of the derailleur rubs when im in second and try to shift to the top, but it wont go up unless I pull on the cable some more.

Hmm... it almost looks to me like the front deraileur is a bit too far up... If I remember from the Big Blue Book of bicycle repairs correctly, it suggests that the maximum clearance between the bottom of the deraileur and the teeth of the largest sprocket (ie, when the deraileur passes over the teeth) at the closest point should be between one and two millimeters. It looks to me in your last pic like it is more.

Also, make sure that you are in the highest gear (smallest sprocket on the rear wheel) when you adjust it. Finally, you will want the chain to run more or less parallel to the sides of the front deraileur.

In my experience, this usually is enough to get it to shift properly (although getting the tension right in the cable can be a pain).

Hope this helps.

If I remember from the Big Blue Book of bicycle repairs correctly........

I didn't check, but I think Sheldon suggests getting the fd as low as possible without hitting the big ring.......

I'll add my little bit of info, I've not played with racer shifters (new to road bikes) but I've sorted enough gears out in my time.

Let’s break this issue down a little further.
The cable is not tight enough.
Either because there is slack that needs to be taken up, I normally put my shifter in the smallest gear and then adjust the cable relative to this. Slight adjustments can be done using the mini adjusters on the side of the levers.
Larger adjustments need the cable to be loosened from that bolt on the FD and then the slack taken up and then re-tightened.

If the cable is fine when in the smallest gear (no slack, not even a little) then maybe your shifter is damaged? It could just not be pulling the cable to the correct tension to obtain the large gear? Does it move with every click?

Apart from that there isn’t much more too it, you have already ruled the upper and lower limits using the blocking screws (not sure on their real name).

I would start by-
1. Place chain on middle ring and turn in the low limit screw a full turn.
Ride bike and try to shift to the small ring. It shouldn't shift to the small ring. IF it does, repeat step 1 by another turn.
Bike will now NOT allow a shift to the small ring-
2. Turn out low limit screw in TINY increments (1/8 turn) and ride, trying to shift to the small ring.
Repeat until it shifts to the small ring AND the chain doesn't rub.
3. While on the small ring, loosen cable and pull ALL the slack out of it & retighten.
4. Test.

Wilsonc, I went through all your doing now, for 6 months I adjusted and readjusted, removed and reinstalled way more times than I can remember. I even bought a new FD to no avail. But I never thought to clean the brifter nor replace the cable. These are 2 cheap and fairly quick and easy jobs that will eliminate posable malfution of the shifter and cable. I cleaned out my sti with an aresole (not wd40 but I heard that works) and replaced the cable. The first install and ajust and everytrhing worked fine. give it a shot can't hurt.

Does anyone have a guide for cleaning out my STI ?

before you clean your STI, we need to know how old it is. if its not very old it shouldnt need to be cleaned at all.

we know that the high limit screw is not preventing shifting because you say its "really high" and "I can get it on the highest chainring by pulling on the cable".

from your replies you dont say if you've tried the barrel adjusters. if you need to adjust the tension or length just a little bit, you dont need to loosen that cable nut. just turn the barrel adjuster which is on the left side of the downtube near the front. twist it in half turns and watch the FD move. You want to increase tension (shorten cable) to get it to reach the biggest chainring. when its in high tension it'll be harder to turn so you might need to down shift and then twist and upshift to check. also, this metal sleeve gradually comes out of the barrel adjuster when you increase cable tension.

Uploaded some pictures to help:

http://i33.tinypic.com/wilf0h.jpg

It's less than an inch away from the farthest away part of the chainstay.

I'm trying to get pictures of the derailleur to show you guys the settings I have it on, but my camera is being difficult. I'll upload as soon as I can. Thanks for any help given.

edit: Right now, the screw for the high limiter is really really far up in comparison to the low one.

Aside from the obvious incorrect physical adjustment of the derailleur that others pointed out (it's too high, not rotated right, etc.), the crank itself may be sitting too far outwards.

What is the distance from the centre of the seat-tube to the middle chainring? Can you take a picture similar to that, but look down at the chainrings and chainstay?

Also try this, shift the chain to the largest cassette cog and smallest chain ring. Work the smaller front shift lever several times. If there is any slack in the cable loosen the cable fixing bolt at the front derailleur and pull the slack out. Check the cable routing at the front derailleur, the cable should be running through a small groove. Re-attach cable.

Al

Check out these docs. Complete installation and tuning instructions and detailed parts diagrams on your products. It sounds like you need to re-install and then follow the tuning instructions

ULTEGRA:
http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs/blevel.jsp?JSESSIONID=LPqcn2wkrq4yVcRQ7b4TL65KBx1CZQ2vYZbVqnLQvGrwWjRpGQv4!-1442252462&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181679&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302051928&bmUID=1221569180770

105:
http://techdocs.shimano.com/techdocs/blevel.jsp?JSESSIONID=LPqcn2wkrq4yVcRQ7b4TL65KBx1CZQ2vYZbVqnLQvGrwWjRpGQv4!-1442252462&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395181679&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302051113&bmUID=1221569180770

Step 1- Start over.
Step 2- Inspect fder cables and housing. If kinked or old, replace BOTH. Ensure brifter (brake/shifter) is lubricated and clicking properly (should have four clicks for a triple).
Step 3- Loosen fder cable so it applies zero tension to fder AFTER shifting to inner chainring
Step 4- Set fder approximate high and low limits before attaching cable. Chain should clear inner face of chain cage on smallest ring and largest cog in rear for low limit, largest ring and smallest cog in rear for high limit. CHECK FDER POSITION: 1-2 mm above teeth of large chainring and parallel to chainring.
Step 5- If you have in-line barrel adjusters on your brifter(s), screw them all the way in and then unscrew approx. 6 full turns. This will allow you to increase or decrease cable tension as required in final adjustment. If you have downtube barrel adjusters which have less adjustment range , unscrew enough to allow both clockwise and counterclockwise adjustment
Step 6- Attach fder cable taut. NOTE: Fder cable tension is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT! If cable tension is too tight, shifting from inner to middle ring may cause overshifting towards or even onto large ring. If too loose, this shift will not allow chain to reach middle ring. This initial tension must be set properly before proceeding. Vey slight errors can be corrected with the barrel adjuster as long as plenty of adjustment is left for future adjustments as "cable stretch" occurs.
Step 7- Rear derailleur should be completely adjusted BEFORE adjusting fder.
Step 8- With chain on inner chainring and largest rear cog, set fder low limit so chain does not rub fder inner face. Upshift to middle ring and back down to inner ring. If chain will not reach inner ring, loosen low limit until it will and then proceed.
Step 9- Shift to largest chainring and smallest cog in rear. Chain should not rub
Step 10- If rub occurs, loosen high limit to allow fder to move beyond outer ring to correct
Step 11- If rub still occurs, proceed as follows: With chain as positioned in step 9, push brifter as far right as possible to see if it will move the fder any further right to alleviate chain rub. If it does, this indicates that the high limit is adjusted out far enough but that there is inadequate cable tension to allow the fder to reach it's high limit. If it does not move further right, loosen high limit screw until chain shifts easily onto outer ring without overshifting. When chain shifts smoothly to the outer ring and does not rub without applying excessive force on the brifter to effect said shift, make final adjustment as follows: Push brifter as far right as possible. If it moves further right, tighten high limit to remove this play. As long as this final shift to the outer chainring is smooth as described above, there should be no play in the high limit setting.
Step 12- Shift to middle chainring
Step 13- Turn brifter barrel adjuster counterclockwise 1 turn. Shift to outer chainring and check for rub. Still rubbing? Add tension 1 turn at a time to correct without screwing adjuster out too far.
NOTE: The front derailleur spring is always working in opposition to cable tension. These two forces must be properly balanced to achieve precision shifting. The spring constantly pulls the fder towards the seattube while sufficient cable tension allows the fder to move outward.
Step 14- Check shifting performance. No rubbing and upshifts and downshifts are smooth and consistent? Good job. Still rubbing or other shifting issues? Refer back to NOTES for review.

Increasing cable tension(counterclockwise turns) will prevent chain from jumping too far during downshifts. Decreasing cable tension(clockwise turns) will allow the chain to jump down if it fails to downshift or downshifts slowly.

Front derailleur adjustment is much more difficult than rear derailleur adjustment, especially on triples.
If you are still unable to correct your shifting problems, take it to a shop. They'll be able to diagnose and fix these problems quite quickly and at nominal cost.