Touring - i need practical advice

it seems like a lot of posts here are about megatours....tours of the sort that traverse continents. i like the idea of touring, and enjoy long rides, but i cannot find time for a massive tour, as work and school make big, unreasonable demands on me. y'know, like that i show up consistently, week after week.

so, i'm more in the market for weekend-type tours. the type of tour one can complete with just a set of panniers and a messenger bag. stuff within my own state or the neighboring 2. camping overnight for 2 nights, riding for three days. that type of thing.

so, i am building a bike up, and i'm getting to the point where i need some input on gearing/shifting type questions. namely:

-with a standard triple up front(52/42/30), what should i look to doing with the rear cassette? i'm going 9 spd, but i was initially looking at roadish 13/23 cassettes. but now, i'm thinking maybe i'm better off with something more mountainous, like a shimano m750 with, say, 12/34. i'm thinking the narrower gearing will be fine for most of what i am doing, but would it hurt to have the added flexibility?

-sounds like i've answered my own question there, except now i'm in a pickle with rear derailers. (luckily, i havent bought very much yet.) if i go with the 12/43, i'll need a wider range rear derailer than the 105 one i'd been planning on. (much wider.) so, now i'm looking at like a shimano xt sgs, as that'll give me opportunity to fit the 34t rear cog, and enough chain wrap to handle the 12/34 in the back and the triple up front. this sounds lovely, yes, but that leads me to my penultimate question:

-if i use an xt rear derailer, will that work ok with shimano barcons? i really wanna go with barcons, but i want to be able to use them, index style if possible, with both the front and rear derailer. i know that it'll work fine with 105, but how bout xt?

-final question: how important is spoke count for light/'sport' tours like the ones i'm planning on? i'm thinking it'd be worthwhile to go with 36spokes, but i have a 32 spoke wheelset sitting around. of course, i wouldn't mind changing the hub and putting those 32h open pro's on my fix.

sorry for all the questions; i'm just not real knowledgeable on all this gear shifting stuff. i have a mtn bike, but i never ride it. i mostly roll about on a track bike, so what do i know about drivetrain?

thank you in advance,
-rob

so, i'm more in the market for weekend-type tours. the type of tour one can complete with just a set of panniers and a messenger bag. stuff within my own state or the neighboring 2. camping overnight for 2 nights, riding for three days. that type of thing.

I recently ordered some maps from www.adventurecycling.com. First I looked for routes that passed through my area, and then ordered the maps that are specific to that area. I'll try to use the maps and web-based info to plan trips. Also some state departments of transportation or tourism will have info on their websites about roads, trails, etc.

As for the equipment questions, you'll notice a lot of posts below that discuss that topic. I've gone with an MTB drivetrain (LX) over the road triple (105) and like the range of gears. I'd guess that an XT rear derailer would work with barcons since my LX works just fine with the Dura-Ace barcons. The Dura-Ace barcons are friction-only on the front derailer, and friction or index on the back. In my experience the friction shifting worked beautifully on the front derailer.

...so, i'm more in the market for weekend-type tours....

so, i am building a bike up, and i'm getting to the point where i need some input on gearing/shifting type questions. namely:

-with a standard triple up front(52/42/30), what should i look to doing with the rear cassette?...

-What derailleur ? if i use an xt rear derailer, will that work ok with shimano barcons? i really wanna go with barcons, but i want to be able to use them, index style if possible, with both the front and rear derailer. i know that it'll work fine with 105, but how bout xt?

-final question: how important is spoke count for light/'sport' tours like the ones i'm planning on? i'm thinking it'd be worthwhile to go with 36spokes, but i have a 32 spoke wheelset sitting around. of course, i wouldn't mind changing the hub and putting those 32h open pro's on my fix.


Rob,

A lot depends on your cycling style and ability, your weight, the weight you carry, etc. I find that I carry almost as much stuff for a 3-day tour or for a 15-day tour. Tools weigh a lot and food too, so the only weight I save is on clothing (especially if I know the weather pattern for all days)... and I could save weight on tools if I were "touring" in a heavily-serviced area like suburban Montréal or one of the touristy bike trails with shops every 10-20 km.

For gearing, expect to ride 1-2 gears (15% in gear-inches) lower than what you ride on an unloaded bike. But expect to drop at 2/3 of your normal gearing when riding a good uphill. So if you normally ride an 8% grade with 30/23, expect to need a 30/34 or even less when fully loaded.

In my case, I like to sit and spin while climbing. And I'm not powerful. So I have 44/34/22 chainrings and a custom 12-32 cassette.

I would suggest changing the small ring for a smaller one. Your bike probably takes as low as 24, so going to 24 or 26 would make sense. You could use 52/42/26, or change all 3 rings for 48/38/24.

As for cassette, if you haven't got anything, then buy the lower grade (HG-50 or HG-70 or "105"). You could buy 2 cassettes and re-assemble them to your taste... or you could contact Sheldon Brown and ask for the "Cyclotouriste 13" cassette. For instance, my tourer has 12-14-15-16-17-19-21-25-52, so I have close ratios where it matters, and quite a few bailout gears.

Shifting... All Shimano derailleurs except the first 8-speed Dura Ace are compatible with eachother. For a wide range, it makes sense to use an LX or XT derailleur. It would work with bar-end shifters, STI, etc.
For the front derailleur, it's a bit more tricky. If you use bar-end shifters, front shifting is in friction, so no compatibility issue. If you use STI, make sure you use a road derailleur such as Ultegra, Regina...

Regards,

since you got a MTB just sitting there, why not put some 1.25 or 1.5 slicks on it, add a pair of Barends and rear rack and you are set for touring. The MTB will give you more riding options such as dirt roads and trails.

Here is a touring bike I built last summer. It really is nothing more than a stretched out mountain bike. I rode it on a 6 day tour and several weekend tours

BTW here is a link to some rides and tours in the Hudson Valley http://www.roberts-1.com/bikehudson/index.html#where_to_look

velo-

What bike is that, nice long wheelbase. Looks great!

I recently ordered some maps from www.adventurecycling.com. First I looked for routes that passed through my area, and then ordered the maps that are specific to that area. I'll try to use the maps and web-based info to plan trips. Also some state departments of transportation or tourism will have info on their websites about roads, trails, etc.

that's an excellent idea. i tend to ride all but the most gruesome highways(many of which prohibit bicycles anyway) without much worries, but i'm also thinking about scenery and the like. i've visited the adventurecycling website, and they seem like good ppl.


As for the equipment questions, you'll notice a lot of posts below that discuss that topic. I've gone with an MTB drivetrain (LX) over the road triple (105) and like the range of gears. I'd guess that an XT rear derailer would work with barcons since my LX works just fine with the Dura-Ace barcons. The Dura-Ace barcons are friction-only on the front derailer, and friction or index on the back. In my experience the friction shifting worked beautifully on the front derailer.

yes, i shouldve done a search on these topics first, but i'm pretty excited about building this bike, and my zeal got the better of me. it's good to know that the wide range mtn-bike rear derailers will work with the barcons, as they seem like the best bet for me.

thanks for your help! this touring forum seems like one of the most friendly on bikeforums.net.

-rob

[QUOTE=mgagnonlv]Rob,

A lot depends on your cycling style and ability, your weight, the weight you carry, etc. I find that I carry almost as much stuff for a 3-day tour or for a 15-day tour. Tools weigh a lot and food too, so the only weight I save is on clothing (especially if I know the weather pattern for all days)... and I could save weight on tools if I were "touring" in a heavily-serviced area like suburban Montréal or one of the touristy bike trails with shops every 10-20 km.[QUOTE=mgagnonlv]

interesting. i was thinking of carrying a frame pump, my multi-tool, and a few other specific tools. food and a light tent or hammock, of course. maybe a small notebook. oh, and some extra clothes.

[QUOTE=mgagnonlv]For gearing, expect to ride 1-2 gears (15% in gear-inches) lower than what you ride on an unloaded bike. But expect to drop at 2/3 of your normal gearing when riding a good uphill. So if you normally ride an 8% grade with 30/23, expect to need a 30/34 or even less when fully loaded.[QUOTE=mgagnonlv]

i ride all grades and descents with a 48/16. ;) i'd like to use this bike for more than just loaded touring, so full mtn bike gearing doesn't appeal to me much. i tend to be more of a masher than a spinner. how loaded does one really have to be to need something lower than a 30/34? also, i think that big ring up front will come in handy for regular, unloaded fast riding.


[QUOTE=mgagnonlv]In my case, I like to sit and spin while climbing. And I'm not powerful. So I have 44/34/22 chainrings and a custom 12-32 cassette.

I would suggest changing the small ring for a smaller one. Your bike probably takes as low as 24, so going to 24 or 26 would make sense. You could use 52/42/26, or change all 3 rings for 48/38/24.[QUOTE=mgagnonlv]

yes, an uber-granny might be a nice compromise here, as it'd afford me opportunity to keep my bigger rings, but also allow me to go crazy if need be with some verrrrry low gearing.

[QUOTE=mgagnonlv]As for cassette, if you haven't got anything, then buy the lower grade (HG-50 or HG-70 or "105"). You could buy 2 cassettes and re-assemble them to your taste... or you could contact Sheldon Brown and ask for the "Cyclotouriste 13" cassette. For instance, my tourer has 12-14-15-16-17-19-21-25-52, so I have close ratios where it matters, and quite a few bailout gears.[QUOTE=mgagnonlv]

nashbar has cheap cassettes with like 12/34 cogs. i was thinking that'd do me good.

[QUOTE=mgagnonlv]Shifting... All Shimano derailleurs except the first 8-speed Dura Ace are compatible with eachother. For a wide range, it makes sense to use an LX or XT derailleur. It would work with bar-end shifters, STI, etc.
For the front derailleur, it's a bit more tricky. If you use bar-end shifters, front shifting is in friction, so no compatibility issue. If you use STI, make sure you use a road derailleur such as Ultegra, Regina...[QUOTE=mgagnonlv]


sti doesn't agree with my luddhite sensibilities. it's safe to say that i'll certainly be goofing with barcons. i'm thinking i'm definitely going to be using the mtn rear hub/derailer with the wider range cassette, as options are nice, even if i'm not going to need the really low ones.

thanks ever so much for the advice, michel!

-rob

since you got a MTB just sitting there, why not put some 1.25 or 1.5 slicks on it, add a pair of Barends and rear rack and you are set for touring. The MTB will give you more riding options such as dirt roads and trails.

Here is a touring bike I built last summer. It really is nothing more than a stretched out mountain bike. I rode it on a 6 day tour and several weekend tours

BTW here is a link to some rides and tours in the Hudson Valley http://www.roberts-1.com/bikehudson/index.html#where_to_look


arg, b/c the mtn bike is mostly a mistake i made in a hurry, and i dont want to drop any coin on an aluminum frame that needs a new fork and has no top-end gears. i also imagine the wheels'd suffer from any real touring. i'm going to ebay the mtn bike if i can, or perhaps chop it for the cassette/rear derailer. i guess, what it comes down to, is that bikes are ultimately more of an emotional thing than a practical thing, for me. i'm not feeling the rockhopper, so i can't imagine putting $$$ into it and spending a ton of time on it.

besides, i'm building a crosscheck, and that thing is plenty dirt-road worthy with a set of vredestein spider xtremes on it, no?

thanks for the input. btw, very nice bike you got there.

-rob

mgagnonlv

You have a rear cog of 52 teeth!!!! Show me a pic because I can't believe you.

velo-

What bike is that, nice long wheelbase. Looks great!

That is one of my creations I built last summer. I wanted a Beckman but I didn't want to wait 6 months to a year to get one. I had been building my own frames in the past so I figured why not build one more. It's a mixture of straight gauge chromoly and true temper tubing.

BTW have you got your Thorn yet?

Rich

That is one of my creations I built last summer. I wanted a Beckman but I didn't want to wait 6 months to a year to get one. I had been building my own frames in the past so I figured why not build one more. It's a mixture of straight gauge chromoly and true temper tubing.

BTW have you got your Thorn yet?

Rich

What do you charge for a frameset and what's your turnaround time?? ;)

Thorn, sadly, is a no go for the time being... very long story but suffice it to say that between taxes and some sizing issues... I made the difficult decision to indefinately delay the purchase which Thorn graciously agreed to.

Velonomad- I can't believe you squeezed a bottle behind the seat tube - AWESOME !!!.

-final question: how important is spoke count for light/'sport' tours like the ones i'm planning on? i'm thinking it'd be worthwhile to go with 36spokes, but i have a 32 spoke wheelset sitting around. of course, i wouldn't mind changing the hub and putting those 32h open pro's on my fix.

I think it really depends on how much you weigh, how much gear you bring, and what the roads are like. I've toured on both 32-spoke and 36-spoke wheels with no problems. I weigh 145lbs and typically carry about 25-30lbs of gear. I figure there are plenty of folks out there over 175lbs riding 32-spoke wheels so I'm not really pushing the envelope.

RE: Gearing
Also depends on many things but I like a top gear of around 4:1 and a low gear of at least 1:1. Previously I had run a triple 28/38/48 with a 13-28 cassette but I recently moved that crankset to a different bike and put a "double" 29/44 (left off the inner ring from a triple crankset) with a 12-28 cassette on the touring bike.

I think it really depends on how much you weigh, how much gear you bring, and what the roads are like. I've toured on both 32-spoke and 36-spoke wheels with no problems. I weigh 145lbs and typically carry about 25-30lbs of gear. I figure there are plenty of folks out there over 175lbs riding 32-spoke wheels so I'm not really pushing the envelope.

RE: Gearing
Also depends on many things but I like a top gear of around 4:1 and a low gear of at least 1:1. Previously I had run a triple 28/38/48 with a 13-28 cassette but I recently moved that crankset to a different bike and put a "double" 29/44 (left off the inner ring from a triple crankset) with a 12-28 cassette on the touring bike.

bob,

thanks for your advice. i figured i could get away with 32 spoke wheels, but i decided i'd rather have something absolutely bombproof, so i ordered a set of 36spoke mavic t519's with deore hubs. my wheels on my main rig are fairly shagged, so i'll just lace a new hub into the 32holers i'd set aside for my tour bike, and throw them on the fixie. potholes don't get on well with 23mm tires, and the alex wheels on my fix show the repercussions.

i hear what you're saying re: gearing. i tend to be more of a masher than a spinner anyway, and when i saw what kind of gear-inches i'd be getting with a 52/42/30 triple up front and a 12/34 cassette in the back, i was really pleased with the range. perhaps if i'm ever to tour in mountainous areas, i'll switch to a mtn crankset. but i'm planning on mostly staying in nj/pa, and barring the appalachians, i'm lookin' at a coastal plain here.

as luck would have it, i havent bought all too much yet, aside from the frame, wheelset, stem, headset, brakes, and seatpost. which i guess is a lot, but not a whole lot in terms of drivetrain. but i'm thinking 105 up front, xt in the rear, and an affordable cassette with a 12/34t or similar.

-rob