Folding Bikes - Well that’s one dealer I won’t be using again!

As some may know a few months back I purchased a Dahon MU SL from a company in Wigan that does mostly mail order. The delivery date was postponed twice (and I very nearly cancelled the order)but finally they said the bike had arrived... (it is terrible trying to get through on the phone to them). I arranged to pick up the bike the following afternoon after 1pm giving them plenty of time to get the bike ready for me. When I arrived at the appointed time they said “sorry it’s not ready yet, just got to find it, won’t be long”... some considerable time later they wheel a Dahon Mu Sl into the shop area, Ok, I say, it’s a SL but I ordered a 2008 model and this was a 2007 model.... so off they went to find my bike... eventually they found it. “Ok won’t be long, just put it together for you”.... they lied it was a long wait!

Finally they came out and said “here you are.... oh and we had to replace this part pointing at the upper head bearing as it was missing”

Fast forward to a couple of weeks ago. The steering had always been slightly stiff but it was getting much worse by the day to the point the bike was not safe to ride. I considered taking it back to Win****leys but I did not really want to make 70 mile round trip and wait God knows how long while they sorted out the problem. So I took it to my LBS which has been established for over 60 years....
They charged me £15 to supply and fit a new bearing, which I think is very good. The guy at the shop asked me “where did you buy this bike?” win****leys in Wigan says I, “that’s figures” he said, “they have over-tightened it and crushed the bearing”... he then went on to relate all the horror stories he had been hearing within the trade and from customers.

From now on I am going to try and use local bike stores wherever possible.

Thorusa is good, you won't have that experence with him.

Thorusa is good, you won't have that experence with him.

Unfortunately, the OP is in the UK so ThorUSA may not have been the most practical place to order from.

--sam

Apart from a few purpose specific bits, most parts on the Dahon are industry standard, so the best place to get your bike fixed is with your local bike shop if it has a good reputation.

Don't be afraid to name and shame. If Winstanley's is crap, there's nothing wrong with saying so.

Don't be afraid to name and shame. If Winstanley's is crap, there's nothing wrong with saying so.

+1
why is everyone always so secretive about the names of the shops they deal with? bike shops should get more recognition around here (both good and bad).

Win' didn't even bother to reply to my email containing a photo' of a damaged part on my new bike. Since I bought it at a good price, I decided to accept the problem, hoping it doesn't deteriorate.

I rang them at another time & amazingly got through to a human (well, I think it was) who said "we've only got the large size left, what height are you"?

"5' 7" on a good day :-) "

"No chance, way too big, you'd be sending it right back"

About a week after that, I had an opportunity to ride the "large size", which was just fine, & in fact I rode 80 miles on it in a single ride ;-)

It's really, really hard to know who are competent *local* LBS's. There are several LBS's around here & I wouldn't trust any of them with my bikes. Most can't even be bothered to return phone calls.

I keep reading about competent LBS's on CTC's web site etc., but I've yet to find one I'd trust & recommend.

I've twice bought from Evans cycles here in the UK. The first purchase was returned within 24 hours.

With both purchases (the second was recent & hasn't been returned, but it was close), the (numerous) staff had no idea how to (un)fold the bike I was interested in.

In both cases the bikes had several scratches, possibly from the staff's ineptness at understanding at how (why?) they work.

The staff seem quite open about their lack of knowledge. I suppose their saving grace is they have *something* in stock.

The *only* company I have experience with, who've provided excellent service, is Strida UK, who it appears may no longer exist, as I believe Strida in UK is now sold by "dealers", hmm.......................

I really wish us end buyers could deal in all cases with the manufacturers.

Good luck to you all with LBS's.

"...There are several LBS's around here & I wouldn't trust any of them with my bikes. Most can't even be bothered to return phone calls..."

Good lbs are often hopeless with phone queries and other admin type stuff but really good with looking after their established customers and fixing bikes.

Try going in person and talk to them. Most of them are there because they like bikes. Very few will have a clue about marketing and all the ancilliary guff. Buy something, anything, to show you are a genuine customer - bike shop staff are driven mad by people making endless queries and not buying anything - remember they don't have the retail mindset - as far as they are concerned it's all about the bike, and they are often prone to speak their minds.

If you want the retail type experience then you'll have to go to the chain stores to get a dose of sales pitch and market speak.

No matter where you live in the world, I have seen a sharp difference in bike shops as the people who run them. Here is some pages from my own Website that covers these differences and suggestions to locate one:

http://www.geocities.com/folder_fanatic/Selection6.html (http://www.geocities.com/folder_fanatic/Selection6.html)

http://www.geocities.com/folder_fanatic/Selection7.html (http://www.geocities.com/folder_fanatic/Selection7.html)

"...There are several LBS's around here & I wouldn't trust any of them with my bikes. Most can't even be bothered to return phone calls..."

Good lbs are often hopeless with phone queries and other admin type stuff but really good with looking after their established customers and fixing bikes.

Try going in person and talk to them. Most of them are there because they like bikes. Very few will have a clue about marketing and all the ancilliary guff. Buy something, anything, to show you are a genuine customer - bike shop staff are driven mad by people making endless queries and not buying anything - remember they don't have the retail mindset - as far as they are concerned it's all about the bike, and they are often prone to speak their minds.

If you want the retail type experience then you'll have to go to the chain stores to get a dose of sales pitch and market speak.

I think they're all about their bikes. Bikes are very personal items and the problem with "good" bike shops is that they're completely unwilling to understand anything that doesn't fit their own personal preferences. This kind of attitude is fine among friends, but as long as I'm paying you I expect you to be attentive to what I like.

Not that chain stores are any better; They just push whatever they stock with sales pitch and market speak. The problem is that you sorta get that at a bike shop too; It's just filtered down one level. The bike shop employees get a healthy dose of sales pitch and market speak from the big companies like Shimano or Trek, drink the koolaid, and then get belligerent with the customers by not answering their calls or requiring them to buy overpriced crap to prove they are "genuine customers" or "part of the group". Bike shop employees are worse than real salesmen because they actually believe the market speak. Don't want to spend $60 on a low end styrofoam helmet? Find the offerings of the big cycle companies unappealing? Don't expect to get good competent service.


No matter where you live in the world, I have seen a sharp difference in bike shops as the people who run them. Here is some pages from my own Website that covers these differences and suggestions to locate one:

http://www.geocities.com/folder_fanatic/Selection6.html (http://www.geocities.com/folder_fanatic/Selection6.html)

http://www.geocities.com/folder_fanatic/Selection7.html (http://www.geocities.com/folder_fanatic/Selection7.html)

Why don't you name any bike shops on your website? Finding a good bike shop is not easy, but if you put the names out there it makes it a little easier.

Here are a few that have had rave reviews around the forum:
thorusa.com
blackdogbicycles.com
bfold.com

...I think they're all about their bikes. Bikes are very personal items and the problem with "good" bike shops is that they're completely unwilling to understand anything that doesn't fit their own personal preferences....
Why should they? They are doing work that they like on the product they like and are usually booked out for weeks ahead. To their target audience they are a good lbs, they don't have the time to worry about anyone else. It's a case of unlimited demand and limited supply.

You don't go to a butcher for your fish, or a truck dealer to fix your motorbike, so find a bike shop that is interested in the sort of bike you like and you have found an lbs.


...This kind of attitude is fine among friends, but as long as I'm paying you I expect you to be attentive to what I like....

Sadly, your post gives me the impression that you are looking for lackey type service rather than a bike shop. Possibly the bike shops you have gone to have picked up on your impressions of their inferiority.

I heard one dealer bundle a customer who was arrogant right out the door with the words "This is a bike shop, not Tesco".

If you want the full subservient retail experience, go to a chainstore. Like it or lump it, as the saying goes.

Why don't you name any bike shops on your website? Finding a good bike shop is not easy, but if you put the names out there it makes it a little easier.

Here are a few that have had rave reviews around the forum:
thorusa.com
blackdogbicycles.com
bfold.com

Safety Cycle Shop
1014 N Western Ave
Los Angeles, CA 90029
(323) 464-5765

First Bike Shop that I (or rather my parents) that my first & second bike came from.

B & H Cycles
1017 S Fair Oaks Av
South Pasadena, CA 91030

(626) 799-6788

New Location. My sister bought her mountain bike here almost 20 years ago. Great service and now free bike repair classes are being formed.

Temple City Bike Shop
9628 Las Tunas Dr
Temple City, CA 91780

(626) 287-6936

I bought my Piccolo here. A busy shop but does take time with each customer to tune up new bikes at purchase and after.

Glendale Cyclery
1250 - A W Glenoaks Blvd
Glendale, CA 91201

(818) 246-5551
Call Sales & Service - Parts - Mountain - Road
Fitness - Specialized - Trek - Expert Repair-My Brompton's first and only tune-up was done here-All Makes

Perhaps you might see the pattern forming here. If I post this for someone out of the Los Angeles Area, I think this information would be utterly useless unless he/she visits or moves here. I try to inform the public on how I keep my current bike shops (emphasis on the plural) list that I use and how I chose them using the criteria that I developed over the years as a consumer, rather than just blindly suggest a particular bike shop. I rarely mail order since I personally believe that great local bikes shop should be patronized by people in order to stay in business. I look for many things, not just prices, to choose the right shops for me.

Why should they? They are doing work that they like on the product they like and are usually booked out for weeks ahead. To their target audience they are a good lbs, they don't have the time to worry about anyone else. It's a case of unlimited demand and limited supply.

You don't go to a butcher for your fish, or a truck dealer to fix your motorbike, so find a bike shop that is interested in the sort of bike you like and you have found an lbs.

Well there are certainly plenty of them around the forum complaining about how internet sales are killing their businesses and imploring people to "support your LBS".

Also, there are probably less than a handful of bike shops in the entire country really interested in folding bikes, so the likelihood of finding an LBS per your method isn't too promising.


Sadly, your post gives me the impression that you are looking for lackey type service rather than a bike shop. Possibly the bike shops you have gone to have picked up on your impressions of their inferiority.

I heard one dealer bundle a customer who was arrogant right out the door with the words "This is a bike shop, not Tesco".

If you want the full subservient retail experience, go to a chainstore. Like it or lump it, as the saying goes.

I'm not looking for a subservient retail experience. I just want my **** fixed without having to worry about moody bike shop clerks whose delicate sensibilities are offended by my unspoken thoughts. My auto mechanic fixes my car and gives it back without giving me any **** about the make or model or anything else and I respect him for it. If the LBS can't do that then why should I go there? Maybe you are willing to pay big bucks for a sense of cycling fraternity, but I'm perfectly happy with the fraternity I get from the friends I met for free and when I go to a bike shop I'm just looking to save time over doing it myself. Would be nice if I could get it from the low price chain stores, but they're not knowledgeable enough. Unfortunately the vast majority of bike shops aren't knowledgeable enough either and, yet, they want to be paid more for their ignorance just because they happen to have a personal interest in bikes.

Does the word "professionalism" mean anything to you? You can be rude to customers, not answer their calls, profile them based on their alacrity to purchase useless knick knacks, and show them out the door, all under the guise that "this is how a bike shop operates", but in the end it all boils down to professionalism and based on your description it sounds like the "good" bike shops don't have any (which begs the question, what exactly is so "good" about a bunch of unprofessional hacks posing as a business under the name "bike shop"?).

Here's a thought, maybe your "good" bike shop employees wouldn't be driven so mad by people making endless queries and not buying anything if they didn't present themselves as a respectable generic bicycle business. Perhaps there would be a lot less misunderstanding if they simply called themselves a club.


I try to inform the public on how I keep my current bike shops (emphasis on the plural) list that I use and how I chose them using the criteria that I developed over the years as a consumer, rather than just blindly suggest a particular bike shop.

Unfortunately most of that criteria is a posteriori. So the members of the public are bound to waste hundreds if not thousands of dollars at bad shops before finding the good ones for themselves. I'm sure those members of the public in the Los Angeles area will appreciate your list. Thanks.

...Does the word "professionalism" mean anything to you? You can be rude to customers, not answer their calls, profile them based on their alacrity to purchase useless knick knacks, and show them out the door, all under the guise that "this is how a bike shop operates", but in the end it all boils down to professionalism and based on your description it sounds like the "good" bike shops don't have any (which begs the question, what exactly is so "good" about a bunch of unprofessional hacks posing as a business under the name "bike shop"?).

I presumed we were talking about good bike shops - ie those that will fix your bike properly.

The point I am obviously failing to make is that the whole concept of "professionalism" and acting like a car dealer is alien to them. They are doing it because they love bikes - they're usually not making a fortune, or even particularly interested in doing so. (Remember we're talking about a good bike shop that employs craftsmen, not pimply bike monkeys).

Good lbs are usually specialist in the sort of bikes that interest them. They have more than enough work and business as it is, so they're not keen to take on stuff they either do not like or outside their particular interest. To illustrate, a guy with a downhill bike is not likely to get much interest in fixing his bike from an lbs that specialises in exotic road iron, and vice versa.

Most of their business is obtained by word of mouth and recommendation - that's why you don't see them advertising (I know, I know, reprehensibly unprofessional of them). To find a good lbs, get yourself into the loop, talk to other cyclists with the same interests as yours and find out who they use.

Oh, and by the way, when you do find one, you probably won't have to "pay big bucks for a sense of cycling fraternity" because they are usually so unprofessional that they charge lower rates than the chainstore cycle shops for their service.

I know I have re-acted strongly to your extremely negative comments about the industry, but what I am trying to tell you is that if you want a specialist (which you seem to want), going in with the attitude that you have expressed is going to get you shown the door. Your money will not buy you the respect that you seem to expect.

If you can't accept that small lbs tend to be part of the cycling fraternity (was that supposed to be scornful?), you have the freedom to go to the bike chains and get the quality of service that has so incensed you.

Well there are certainly plenty of them around the forum complaining about how internet sales are killing their businesses and imploring people to "support your LBS".

Also, there are probably less than a handful of bike shops in the entire country really interested in folding bikes, so the likelihood of finding an LBS per your method isn't too promising.



I'm not looking for a subservient retail experience. I just want my **** fixed without having to worry about moody bike shop clerks whose delicate sensibilities are offended by my unspoken thoughts. My auto mechanic fixes my car and gives it back without giving me any **** about the make or model or anything else and I respect him for it. If the LBS can't do that then why should I go there? Maybe you are willing to pay big bucks for a sense of cycling fraternity, but I'm perfectly happy with the fraternity I get from the friends I met for free and when I go to a bike shop I'm just looking to save time over doing it myself. Would be nice if I could get it from the low price chain stores, but they're not knowledgeable enough. Unfortunately the vast majority of bike shops aren't knowledgeable enough either and, yet, they want to be paid more for their ignorance just because they happen to have a personal interest in bikes.

Does the word "professionalism" mean anything to you? You can be rude to customers, not answer their calls, profile them based on their alacrity to purchase useless knick knacks, and show them out the door, all under the guise that "this is how a bike shop operates", but in the end it all boils down to professionalism and based on your description it sounds like the "good" bike shops don't have any (which begs the question, what exactly is so "good" about a bunch of unprofessional hacks posing as a business under the name "bike shop"?).

Here's a thought, maybe your "good" bike shop employees wouldn't be driven so mad by people making endless queries and not buying anything if they didn't present themselves as a respectable generic bicycle business. Perhaps there would be a lot less misunderstanding if they simply called themselves a club.



Unfortunately most of that criteria is a posteriori. So the members of the public are bound to waste hundreds if not thousands of dollars at bad shops before finding the good ones for themselves. I'm sure those members of the public in the Los Angeles area will appreciate your list. Thanks.

I just wanted to let you know the bike shops I frequent here in LA. But the guidelines of how I came to picking these shops out of so many here plus over online and catalogs is still the same whether you live here or anywhere else. I take you step by step using a list of features I like for a bike I want to purchase and illustrate how I came to pick a bike shop for it's own merits. The site covers the reading, research, and careful thought on the brand, model, components and accessories that you want your folding bike to have and creating a written list drawn from it. Then how to select the place you wish to purchase your bike from. Creating and having a clear idea of what I want in a bike and a shop has kept me from wasting hundreds, even thousands of dollars being talked into something that is only good to try to dump on someone else very soon after. Here is the link to the page I discuss more fully on the actual bike shop selection:

http://www.geocities.com/folder_fanatic/Selection6.html (http://www.geocities.com/folder_fanatic/Selection6.html)

datako, This comment you made just floored me:

`Why should they? They are doing work that they like on the product they like and are usually booked out for weeks ahead. To their target audience they are a good lbs, they don't have the time to worry about anyone else. It's a case of unlimited demand and limited supply.`

I had no idea that good LBS`s were practically turning away customers. Perhaps things have changed greatly in the last few years, but I`ve never known bike shops to be booming businesses. Yes, there are `boutique` shops that are veritable museums of all that is cool in the world of cycling. These, though, could hardly be what one means when one speaks of a good LBS. Rather they`re places a cyclist should visit before he/she dies. Kind of like going to Mecca for a Muslim. :)

It seems, though, that I am wrong. Every good LBS in every town is swamped in customers. Given how busy they are, I sure wish they`d shut up about online retailers and the negative effects on their bottom line. I`d think they would appreciate the rest. :)

I can totally understand now why they don`t want to take on new customers. The burden of it all. The clueless doc/software engineer/lawyer/scientist/prof/money manager/orthodontist, etc., who doesn`t know ****... wanting to talk about buying the latest new toy. Waste of time. Wouldn`t want to take 30 minutes out of my day to nurture that possible customer. No way. I`m going to wait for the guy who knows exactly what he wants and won`t hassle me with any questions. Everyone else gets the stink eye.

Oh dear, I do seem to have upset some delicate sensibilities.

It isn't about how "cool" they are. Maybe where you are the good bike shops aren't swamped with business, but in that case there wouldn't be this thread, would there?

Let's try once more -
Shop is specialist
Shop is busy, very busy.
Customer comes along wanting something not in the run of the shop speciality.
Customer sent elsewhere, often with suggestions where to get it.
Customer come along wanting something in the run of the shop speciality.
Customer attended to and leaves happy.
Customer comes along radiating attitude "serve me, you inferior dogs of low intellect, you manglers of bikes, you persons of no integrity"
Customer attended appropriately and leaves very, very unhappy (and probably posts on this forum :) ).

As for the "clueless doc/software engineer/lawyer/scientist/prof/money manager/orthodontist ...who doesn`t know ****", the bike shop is an equal opportunity zone, they are treated like any other clueless customer according to the customer types listed above.

Let me repeat this - the successful small lbs do not play the same game as the chain stores. They are not interested in doing so. They don't care if you don't like that. They have a doing it right attitude as opposed to the customer is always right attitude.

They do care about selling you a decent bike that leaves the shop properly prepared, and fixing it properly if it needs work. They'll turn the world upside down to ensure your warranty claims are honoured by manufacturers.

If they specialise in mountain bikes, they'll sell you a road bike but they are not going to turn the world upside down to find you one.

It's a craftsman ethos rather than a retail ethos.

Let me repeat this - the successful small lbs do not play the same game as the chain stores. They are not interested in doing so. They don't care if you don't like that. They have a doing it right attitude as opposed to the customer is always right attitude.

Problem is that there is no "right" when it comes to cycling and the bike snobs working at the "good" bike shops think that their tastes are better than everyone else's, including their customers (at least the unenlightened ones).

Sorry if this is shocking, but if you're running a service business then you shouldn't be surprised when your customers expect to be served. It's not about the game played by the chain stores. This is simply the bare minimum expected of anyone who calls themselves a business. It's okay for customers to have delicate sensibilities, because they're not the ones pretending to be professionals. If you want professional customers then get out of retail and move to wholesale. If you don't want to be a professional then get out of business.



It's a craftsman ethos rather than a retail ethos.

I disagree. The craftsman ethos is one of professionalism and mutual respect. Arrogance and rudeness is just being an *******. Don't confuse the two. A polite craftsman would make it clear to everyone that walks into the door of his shop what exactly it is he has on offer so there is no misunderstanding, but the *******s you'll find at most "good" bike shops will simply give you the stink eye and try to rip you off with overpriced tubes if/until they can ascertain that you're into the "right" kind of bike.

The difference basically boils down to this: if you go to a shop specializing in mountain bikes looking for a road bike will they turn you away with suggestions on where to find what you're looking for or will they disrespect you by selling you a road bike even though they know they're both unwilling and incapable of giving you the same quality of service they give to their other customers? The former deserves the highest respect, but the latter are truly "inferior dogs of low intellect, manglers of bikes, and persons of no integrity". It's the craftsman ethos vs the scammer ethos and the fact that you, as someone in the cycling business, don't seem to understand the difference is not surprising.

You're lucky the cycling business is currently booming in the UK because once the market settles I doubt you'll be able to stay swamped with business with the kinds of attitudes you have.

I've seen the words "cool" and "bike snobs" used. You won't find them working in any good lbs. You'll find them walking in the door as customers though. They provide some amusement for the lbs workers.

I don't recall saying an lbs should be "arrogant or rude" to its customers? I was making the point they will quickly return the favour when they get that treatment from the customer (and I support them in it).

There seems to be a desperate need to avoid the points I am making just because they are not attractive to the ears of the beholders.

It seems to be the concensus that the lbs ought to obey the supposed dictates of good business administration and grab every bit of business. The point I'm making is that they don't see it that way and don't care what you think of it. The silly lbs is not trying to get rich, just run a bike shop.

A good lbs is primarily concerned with his reputation as a bike seller/repairer in the area of specialist area of cycling that interests him (usually him). Those who aren't quickly mutate into the sort of place you don't want to take your bike, ie a marketing organisation.

There is also an assumption that I own a bike business. No, I don't. No way. I prefer much more lucrative endeavours. I'm not as dedicated as the people who provide good lbs for the community.

Luckily there are highly profitable chain stores for the people who do not wish to engage with their lbs, or who look down on their staff.

datako,

Where do you live? What`s the name of a shop in your area you would consider to be a good LBS? Lastly, what kind of riding do you do? Road? Mountain? Track?

Mike

Where I live is my business.

I have several bikes in UK,
4 folders
1 racing bike
1 track bike
3 cross bikes
4 mountain bikes
plus several in another country.

I have dealt with many lbs since I was a boy and I have yet to find a lbs full of the sort of villains that are being disparaged above. I have found them in the chain stores, but not in great numbers.

Maybe we should change the tenor of this post to what are the external signs of a good lbs, and how to interact with them.

Fair enough. Wow...:)

I've seen the words "cool" and "bike snobs" used. You won't find them working in any good lbs. You'll find them walking in the door as customers though. They provide some amusement for the lbs workers.

I don't recall saying an lbs should be "arrogant or rude" to its customers? I was making the point they will quickly return the favour when they get that treatment from the customer (and I support them in it).

There seems to be a desperate need to avoid the points I am making just because they are not attractive to the ears of the beholders.

It seems to be the concensus that the lbs ought to obey the supposed dictates of good business administration and grab every bit of business. The point I'm making is that they don't see it that way and don't care what you think of it. The silly lbs is not trying to get rich, just run a bike shop.

A good lbs is primarily concerned with his reputation as a bike seller/repairer in the area of specialist area of cycling that interests him (usually him). Those who aren't quickly mutate into the sort of place you don't want to take your bike, ie a marketing organisation.

There is also an assumption that I own a bike business. No, I don't. No way. I prefer much more lucrative endeavours. I'm not as dedicated as the people who provide good lbs for the community.

Luckily there are highly profitable chain stores for the people who do not wish to engage with their lbs, or who look down on their staff.

If a person that can't be bothered to return phone calls, gets mad at inquiries, expects customers to buy things just to show they are "genuine", and knowingly sells items outside their scope of knowledge to unsuspecting customers isn't rude then who is?

Likewise, if a professional who puts a higher priority to his personal preferences than the interests of his clients isn't arrogant than who is? After all, every good doc/software engineer/lawyer/scientist/prof/money manager/orthodontist puts his clients first. Why do LBSs think they are better than the rest of us? The fact that I hold LBS staff to the same standard as the rest of us is not a sign of disrespect or looking down, but quite the opposite.

Nearly every single quality of a "good lbs" you've defended in this thread is a direct manifestation of rudeness or arrogance. The sole exception is the ability to fix a bike properly, but experience shows that that seems neigh impossible in the face of such overwhelming rudeness and arrogance. Even if you're hypothetical "good" lbs did have the skill or craftsmanship to fix a bike properly no one would ever be able to tell because, from your description, the bike shop employees would be likely to arrogantly refuse the job on a lack of personal interest, if not throw a hissy fit at the mere inquiry, if not ignore the inquiry while accusing the potential customer of ingenuiness, if not simply ignore the phone inquiry genuine and ingenuine alike. It would be a miracle if a shop could ever get any work done with such policies and I think the truth is that such "good" bike shops really don't get much work done at all.

Professionalism is not about the retail, big box store mentality. It is about pride of workmanship. For retail business owners of any kind that includes managing the business and interacting with customers. A bike shop manager who doesn't want to interact with customers has a poor work ethic. He may very well be a craftsman when it comes to his personal cycling favorites, but as a bike shop manager he is incompetent. As customers both qualities are important. A bike shop manager who can't attend to his customers is doing just as much of a half assed job as a chain store which has no interest in the craft of cycling itself (it's just the other half of the ass). So the existence of such chain stores is really of no more advantage to us than the existence of LBSs (half assed is half assed no matter which half it is).

The funny thing is that you make out like we are advocating that bike shops have an obligation to "grab every bit of business" or "try to get rich" when most of what I am asking for is simply the same basic decency I would ask of any human being. If you're only point is that an LBS should have no obligation to behave like a big retailer or aggressive profit center then we agree. However, that does not give them a right to be rude and arrogant.


Maybe we should change the tenor of this post to what are the external signs of a good lbs, and how to interact with them.

I thought that was what started this whole little argument. You made it quite clear that, in your opinion, the signs of a good lbs are the refusal to answer phones, inability or unwillingness to work on anything outside of their personal interests, etc, in short monumental arrogance and rudeness.

Ah well, 'nuff said. You're talking about the theory of how it should be, I'm talking about how I find it. Let's leave it at that.

I'll continue on my lucky way which seems to miss all these awful bike shops.

Ah well, 'nuff said. You're talking about the theory of how it should be, I'm talking about how I find it. Let's leave it at that.

I'll continue on my lucky way which seems to miss all these awful bike shops.

No, I'm talking about how I find it. Maybe I'm just unlucky, but I'm happy to just agree to disagree.

Actually ThorUSA has an equivalent level dealer over here called Fudge Cycles based in Harrow Road London owned and run by a guy called Andrew Fudge. They probably move more Dahon bikes than any other UK dealer.

I would have to say it is the best service I've had from any LBS in Lomdon and Andrew has a 'can do' attitude that is second to none. Simply brilliant service. That's where I've ordered a Mu SL funny enough!

For what it's worth, I've had excellent service every time I've been to a Performance Bike Shop in DE. I don't often get there as it's on the way to visit family in the DC area but not all chain shops are bad.

One thing to note though, datako, assuming you bought your 13-bike fleet at the area shops, you may have an atypical experience at any shop given the business you bring with you.

A perfect example is I know a guy who has a large fleet of bikes and gets treated really well at most every shop he frequents. On his recommendation, I go to the same shops and get treated poorly. That is, until I mention his name and their attitude changes instantly.

For what it's worth, I've had excellent service every time I've been to a Performance Bike Shop in DE. I don't often get there as it's on the way to visit family in the DC area but not all chain shops are bad.

One thing to note though, datako, assuming you bought your 13-bike fleet at the area shops, you may have an atypical experience at any shop given the business you bring with you.

A perfect example is I know a guy who has a large fleet of bikes and gets treated really well at most every shop he frequents. On his recommendation, I go to the same shops and get treated poorly. That is, until I mention his name and their attitude changes instantly.

And that's a shame because if you take for example Fudge Cycles in London; they treat every decent customer well and I've seen them move several Dahons in 30 mins, never mind an hour. Such arrogance towards the indidual consumer either means bike shops fail to see the big picture or in the short-medium term business is so wonderful they don't need to care. I suspect many times its the former reason. Any business is volatile in the long-term if they go about things the wrong way. Especially given the spread of opinion on online communities on the Internet these days. News travels fast.

PDR, you have my sympathy. I've been lucky, I think- since getting back into 'serious' cycling I've found I have two decent LBSs a mile or so from me. One stocks Dahons, one doesn't, but they've both given me good service, and if they say something needs doing, it's because it does. I'll still go a bit further afield to get my Jetstream done, but only because that dealer can do the shock at a decent price too..
Congratulations Mulleady, btw. Mu SL's lovely. And so light...mine was that weight before I had the DualDrive put on (a lot of extra weight, but I think it was worth it for the extra range). Smithfield Nocturne folding race next year?