Fifty Plus (50+) - Comfort wheels for a Faassst Cervelo?

I'm lovin' my Cervelo RS but want to upgrade the wheels. I love going fast but willing to compromise some speed for comfort. Is there a wheel out there that is designed like the RS, built for speed AND comfort?

How much air pressure are you running, and are you using 23mm tires? What brand tires?

I'm running tire pressure at 110 - 120 psi. 25mm vittoria front, 25mm bontrager hardcase race lite rear. Shimano RH10 wheels came on the Cervelo RS. They are plenty comfortable, I just want a higher quality, lighter set of wheels that will also give a little, a bit of vertical compliance. I tried Neuvation but the ride quality was harsh, not worth the 300 grams saved.

I'm considering the Mavic Rsys thinking the carbon spokes will answer the need. The Easton EA90 SLX are also in the mix, but mfg'rs don't really talk about compliance as much as stiffness.

Your already running what is probably as large an air volumn tire as you can fit to the frame so no help there.

As you have noted, lighter wheels of "higher" quality are going to be known for their stiffness and race worthyness so little help there.

Although not necessarily, lighter or even more expensive, you might want to look at a traditional handbuilt set with Mavic open pro rims or CXP33 rims and DT revolution spokes. You will get most of both worlds in what might be described as a fast training wheelset with some compliance. These were known as the gold standard of wheels for a number of years with good reason.

http://www.excelsports.com/new.asp?page=8&description=Swiss+Threat+Rear+Wheel+Shimano&vendorCode=EXCEL&major=1&minor=24

Here is another wheel very similar to the Mavic rim setup.

I thought the R-Sys wheels are designed to be very stiff.

How much do you weigh? You can probably lower your air pressure. I'm about 165-170 lbs, and use 95 front, 105 rear with 23mm Michelin Krylions. It doesn't seem any less efficient than the old 110 to 115 I was using. Lower air pressure should help in the turns, too.

Keep your wheelset and look for some tires with a lower recommended pressure. I run about 90 front, 95 rear on the Bianchi's 700Cx28 Continentals, which are actually more like 25mm tires -- this frame does not have enough clearance for real 28mm tires, such as Specialized Armadillos. Capo #1 has 700Cx28 Vittoria Randonneurs, which have a recommended pressure of only 85 PSI. I typically run about 85 front / 90 rear with good results. Disclaimer: I weigh only about 150lbs -- somewhat higher pressures would presumably be more appropriate for a heavier cyclist.

You might want to go custom....someone like Ligero Wheels or Mike Garcia, or maybe Dave Thomas with Speed Dream. Similar to a custom frame, you can chat with them about your riding style and needs, and they can recommend a build to suit you.

I weigh 165 lbs and ride a 51cm Cervelo RS. The vittoria tires that came on it are rated up to 160 psi. I replaced the rear due to flats with the Bontrager hard case and haven't flatted since.

I'm lovin' my Cervelo RS but want to upgrade the wheels. I love going fast but willing to compromise some speed for comfort. Is there a wheel out there that is designed like the RS, built for speed AND comfort?

Sounds like you're really enjoying the RS. I just got the RS frameset over the past weekend on Saturday. I migrated most of the rest from the other bike. My wheelset is the Mavic Ksyrium SSC SL about 2 years old with Michelin Pro Race 2 700 x 23.

This is my first all carbon bike so it definitely is smooth and the RS's massive bottom bracket really adds to the pedal stroke smoothness. I have two other bikes and for comparison and this RS is tops. The other bike is the Cervelo Prodigy 2001 which is Columbus steel on Mavic Elite wheelset. And the other is the Ridley Aeron aluminum with carbon front fork and carbon rear triangle.

I've been pleased with a set of Bontrager Race-XXX-Lites that I recently purchased used. And, I mean very pleased. They ride terrific and are lightweight. I've read good things about the HED Ardennes and, also the new Shimano 7850-24CL's - a wheel that particularly interests me. Unfortunately, all these are expensive. But, the Bontragers have been out for a while and show up on the used market quite often. With the Bontrager cork pads, braking is fine.

I use the R-Sys wheels (fantastic by the way), they are very stiff yet quite comfortable as long as I don't put too much pressure in my tires. I have Michelin Pro2 Race that have a recommended max of 116 psi. I weight 175 lbs and found that 105 to 110 psi is a great sweet spot. Above 110 I find the rear a bit too harsh. At 165 lbs I would probably recommend 100 to 105 psi.

Try you current setup at a lower pressure, it might make a big difference.

I'm running tire pressure at 110 - 120 psi. 25mm vittoria front, 25mm bontrager hardcase race lite rear. Shimano RH10 wheels came on the Cervelo RS. They are plenty comfortable, I just want a higher quality, lighter set of wheels that will also give a little, a bit of vertical compliance. I tried Neuvation but the ride quality was harsh, not worth the 300 grams saved.

I'm considering the Mavic Rsys thinking the carbon spokes will answer the need. The Easton EA90 SLX are also in the mix, but mfg'rs don't really talk about compliance as much as stiffness.


Lose the Bontrager Hardcase tire: those are the slowest, harshest riding, worst cornering tires I've ever used (in 35 years of road riding). A pair of 25mm Michelin Pros would make far more difference in ride quality than ANY change in wheels. Oh, and unless you're over 200lb, don't run 'em at over 100 psi...

SP

I've been pleased with a set of Bontrager Race-XXX-Lites that I recently purchased used. And, I mean very pleased. They ride terrific and are lightweight. I've read good things about the HED Ardennes and, also the new Shimano 7850-24CL's - a wheel that particularly interests me. Unfortunately, all these are expensive. But, the Bontragers have been out for a while and show up on the used market quite often. With the Bontrager cork pads, braking is fine.

Hey Neal! I bet those Bonty wheels are very nice but you better not bring them up this way or I won't be able to keep up with you. Have you ridden them in the rain yet? How's the braking?

As mentioned in this thread, comfort has a lot to do with tire pressure. I've not ridden carbon rims but they are said to be quite comfortable, at least the less deep variety.

I've been pleased with a set of Bontrager Race-XXX-Lites that I recently purchased used. And, I mean very pleased. They ride terrific and are lightweight. I've read good things about the HED Ardennes and, also the new Shimano 7850-24CL's - a wheel that particularly interests me. Unfortunately, all these are expensive. But, the Bontragers have been out for a while and show up on the used market quite often. With the Bontrager cork pads, braking is fine.

+1 I also like the Easton Ascent IIs. Here are the Race XXX lites on my R3. I use the yellow Swiss Stop brake pads.

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/2008%20Cervelo%20R3/PICT0010.jpg

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u250/rallen94402/2008%20Cervelo%20R3/PICT0012.jpg

built for speed AND comfort?


Your already running what is probably as large an air volumn tire as you can fit to the frame so no help there.

As you have noted, lighter wheels of "higher" quality are going to be known for their stiffness and race worthyness so little help there.

Although not necessarily, lighter or even more expensive, you might want to look at a traditional handbuilt set with Mavic open pro rims or CXP33 rims and DT revolution spokes. You will get most of both worlds in what might be described as a fast training wheelset with some compliance. These were known as the gold standard of wheels for a number of years with good reason.



I mainly ride on two sets of wheels. Shimano Ultegras and these are a stiff pair of wheels. Luckily-My lightweight on Boreas can take these wheels and I do not find them harsh. But the TCR does not like them so I use the handbuilt pair of 105 hubs- Mavic CXP33 rims and 36 DT spokes laced X 2 on this bike. Heavier than the Ultegras but a bomb proof pair of wheels for every day use.

I have a fetish about wheels and They have to be good. The Ultegras were tweaked by my wheelbuilder before I got them- and he also built the Hand builts. There will always be a compromise between efficiency-comfort and cost of a wheel but if I were to choose a wheel from my stock-it would be the handbuilts.

And on tyres- I run Michelin pro2's in 23 at between 110 and 140 PSI- depending on the bike and the road.

Spinergy with the PBO spokes.

Nice bike Hermes, real nice.




Hey Neal! I bet those Bonty wheels are very nice but you better not bring them up this way or I won't be able to keep up with you. Have you ridden them in the rain yet? How's the braking?
.

I'm using the Bontrager cork pads and, they are decent. Not great but very decent. I have not been in the rain yet so, can't comment on how these fair in wet conditions. I'll find out soon enough though, and will approach it with apprehension. I also intend on trying the Swiss Stop Yellow pads that Hermes is running as these are highly recommended on carbon rims. I just could not find any in the local shops here. I'll have to mail order a pair.

As far as keeping up with me, I don't think you need to worry about that. It will take more than a high zoot wheelset for me to get away from you on the hills. For that to happen, I'll also need a water bottle filled from the fountain of youth - and even that might not be enough.

Nice bike Hermes, real nice.





I'm using the Bontrager cork pads and, they are decent. Not great but very decent. I have not been in the rain yet so, can't comment on how these fair in wet conditions. I'll find out soon enough though, and will approach it with apprehension. I also intend on trying the Swiss Stop Yellow pads that Hermes is running as these are highly recommended on carbon rims. I just could not find any in the local shops here. I'll have to mail order a pair.

As far as keeping up with me, I don't think you need to worry about that. It will take more than a high zoot wheelset for me to get away from you on the hills. For that to happen, I'll also need a water bottle filled from the fountain of youth - and even that might not be enough.

Ha! Anyway, I'll take a good look at those wheels in a couple weeks. Don't expect too much from me at the TdT. In fact I might have to work to hang with Karen if I don't get in a few rides soon. :o

+1 to the suggestion to talk to a good wheelbuilder and tell him what characteristics you are after. I'm sure a good builder could make a strong and light wheelset that allows a little more vertical compliance than what you have now.

You might want to go custom....someone like Ligero Wheels or Mike Garcia, or maybe Dave Thomas with Speed Dream. Similar to a custom frame, you can chat with them about your riding style and needs, and they can recommend a build to suit you.

+1

I had Mike Garcia build me a set with an impossible set of parameters--light, strong, comfortable. He nailed it in one. I love the wheels he made for me and will keep them when it comes time to replace the bike they're on. Plus, they were cheaper than store-bought. Winner all the way 'round.

I'll support the try new tires first school of thought and go so far as to suggest you even try some 28's. You will gain reduced bounce resistance (the lost energy component to a harsh ride) and until you are going over 20+ mph the added wind risistance of the wider tire will not exceed the rolling resistance gains.

Good luck with your choice.

Nice bike Hermes, real nice.

I'm using the Bontrager cork pads and, they are decent. Not great but very decent. I have not been in the rain yet so, can't comment on how these fair in wet conditions. I'll find out soon enough though, and will approach it with apprehension. I also intend on trying the Swiss Stop Yellow pads that Hermes is running as these are highly recommended on carbon rims. I just could not find any in the local shops here. I'll have to mail order a pair.

As far as keeping up with me, I don't think you need to worry about that. It will take more than a high zoot wheelset for me to get away from you on the hills. For that to happen, I'll also need a water bottle filled from the fountain of youth - and even that might not be enough.

Thanks...FYI, I do not ride the carbon wheels in wet conditions. If I am going on a ride where I may run into wet conditions, I swap the Race XXX lites for the Ascent IIs. The Swiss Stops work okay but not great in wet conditions. I would not ride the carbon wheels in the mountains in wet conditions. Also, in wet conditions, the wheels pick up crud off the road that deposits on the brake pads such that upon application, the carbon rims may get scored or wear.

I have made direct, but subjective, comparisons of three wheel sets: i) Ultegra WH R-600 wheelset with 16/20 front/rear, aero spoke, radial except drive side; ii) Hand built DT Swiss with 240 hubs, RR1.1 double eyelet rims with 32 spokes 3x; and iii) Hand built wheelset with Ultegra FH-6600 hubs, Velocity Aerohead rims, with 36 spokes 3x (rear o/c).

Of these, the 36-spoke wheels set seems subjectively to offer the most comfortable ride. The set weighs about 250g more than the DT Swiss wheelset including skewers (which weighs about 1400g without skewers). (The skewers on the DT Swiss are Ti...Very fancy.)

The comparisons have been made using the same set of tires.

I think that a higher spoke count (than is currently fashionable) allows a lighter and more compliant rim which results in a smoother ride.

It would be possible to build an upscale version of these wheels using 36-hole Dura Ace Hubs FH-7850 (titanium) for the rear, FB-7800 (Al) for the front and Aerohead rims (o/c for the rear), DT Swiss Competition and Revolution double-butted spokes (as appropriate) that would weigh with the lightest of "sensible" wheelsets and have suitably high performance for your Cervelo RS.

^^^Wouldn't you expect the same Velocity Aerohead rims with 32 spokes to be just as compliant?

I contacted a pro wheel builder who stated "My opinion about comfort is that all wheels are the same... since none of them have an appreciable amount of radial compliance. If they deflect more than 1mm then the spokes will go slack. Tire will compress more than 10 times that amount if you hit a bump. The best way to get comfort out of the wheels is to use supple high-volume tires and run <100psi.

^^^Wouldn't you expect the same Velocity Aerohead rims with 32 spokes to be just as compliant?

One of the problems with Hand built wheels is the availability of the hub and rim in the spoke number that you want to run. Not all rims are available in 36 and 32 and neither are the hubs. And less than 28 is very difficult to find.

My wheelbuilder- if he has the choice of 32 or 36- will build in 36. The difference in ride of the two is negligible- but the extra strength from a 36 is appreciable and the weight of 4 spokes is not worth worrying about.

I have made direct, but subjective, comparisons of three wheel sets: i) Ultegra WH R-600 wheelset with 16/20 front/rear, aero spoke, radial except drive side; ii) Hand built ...that would weigh with the lightest of "sensible" wheelsets and have suitably high performance for your Cervelo RS.

Wow! This is what I would expect from the 50+ forum. Everyone posting on this thread (except me :o) has provided very useful, technical information based on personal experience. Thanks so much!

I've found that MY comfort level is directly related to the roughness of the road surface. If it's not terrible, I'm OK. I run Ksyrium SL's with Conti 4000's at about 110 psi on my Scott CR1 SL.

^^^Wouldn't you expect the same Velocity Aerohead rims with 32 spokes to be just as compliant?

Yes. I think both 32 and 36 of the Aerohead have the same rim....Just different numbers of holes. But when you get down to a rim designed for about 20 spokes and below the rim has to be made stronger and stiffer to compensate (at least from what I have seen). At least my WH R-600's are.

Since I am relatively light (166 lb) I chose 36 spokes for a "quirky" reason (other than strength). Earlier this summer a squirrel ran into a local biker's spokes causing the wheel to jam and the fork to break. The rider was seriously injured. There are pictures of this incident here
http://picasaweb.google.com/dbiked/BrotherSBikeCrash?authkey=iOs1rM3MJzo#
Since one of my main "feeder" routes near home is a MUP which has a plethora of squirrels that all seem to want to run across the path just as I am coming along (is this an initiation rite for squirrels?) I became concerned that something like this might happen to me. Talking with experienced bikers seemed to indicate (anecdotal) that this was mainly an issue for low-spoke-count wheels. So, this was on my mind when I built these wheels. The (however misguided) reason there are so many spokes (36 light 2.0/1.5 double butted) is to reduce the chances that one of these little beasties will get jammed between the spokes.