Road Cycling - Climbing: Technique question

My weakness when cycling is on the hills. I have received advice that to improve your hill climbing, climb more hills! I've done that for the last three to four months, but have not seen any improvement. So now it's down to technique (I think). What technique(s) do you use to climb.

I believe what is happening is that I'm not getting efficient leg to pedal transfer of power. Any help on techniques to use?

THANKS!

what works for me is breathing deep and keeping my cadence high. of course it depends on your own style and what not, but try to stand out of the saddle only when you need to and youll be much more efficient

Keep climbing thats for sure. Don't forget to make complete circles in your pedal strokes. I prefer having the gearing such that I can sit on almost any hill. I use a 39/27 lowest gear. It really is a matter of style though. I like to sit back on the saddle with my hands on the top of the bars. When there is a change in slope to a lesser grade Sometimes I will shift up and stand for a bit just to get off the saddle. For me it's mostly concentrating on the rythm and full pedal strokes.

Which improvement are you looking for?
- Climbing the same hill faster.
- Climbing longer hills.
- or being less tired after climbing a hill (overlaps with above).

For me, I've noticeably improved the time on my 2 mile hill climb home by doing leg strength exercises (turning a higher gear at a 60ish RPM) using the CTS video that came with my CycleOps. Also, I've vastly improved my cardio vascular fitness by regular high intensity spinning classes, cardio kickboxing classes, and treadmill running.

Have you lost any weight? If you can lose weight while maintaining the same power output, you'll climb faster. (See recent Bicyling magazine article. If forget which one.) I've lost nearly 8#s since January and dropped 1.5-2.0 minutes off a 2 mile climb.

Yes, a "round" pedal stroke as mentioned above is essential.

Masochism always helps:) I really don't have any specific pointers. I've always enjoyed and have been fortunate enough to be pretty quick on the hills, but I've never thought about my technique too much. Have you determined if you prefer standing or sitting climbing? That was the hardest thing for me to really get down, and I ended up being more comfortable while riding out of the saddle, gripping the brake hoods.

Here's a page about climbing from a guy I've ridden with a few times. http://www.chainreaction.com/hills.htm

my personal favorite-low cadence, in saddle uphill intervals, in the breaks spin.

You have been climbing hills for the last 3-4 months without any improvement?
I find that hard to believe since the act of making your body climb hills on a regular basis- that alone would make your body adjust to the stress.

People climb differently but you should see improvement. I have found that people usually find their own style in short order if they climb regularly.

Please be more specific about what you do and how you are gauging your improvement.
Good luck

Sitting is the most efficient. If it is a long climb you can shift your position on the saddle every couple minutes. This will slightly change the muscles that you use.

Don't ride in the drops. The aero positioning doesn't help at a lower speed, and by keeping your hands on the tops you really open up your lungs for easy, deep breathing.

keep your bike straight dont sway side to side, wastes energy

many people are beaten on hills before they even start. they look at the hill that lies in front of them and their negative thoughts creep in and they are toast. (embellished to prove the point)

every hill is unique and requires different skills.
to boil it down....don't automatically assume that the easiest gear is the way to go. spinning out will increase your beatrate faster than an easy smooth pedal stroke. yes, there are some crucial points where a well timed, smooth shift helps immensely--> but a combination of climbing out of the saddle and a fast spin are usually advantageous.

i'd start the hill in one gear tougher than you have been using. for argument sake i will assume that you are spinning too fast to start (geez, look at that hill) and increasing your HR faster than need be. 2nd, pick a distance up ahead where you are going to stand and climb. this requires you to think about how to shift up as quickly and efficiently as possible. finally begin to think about gearing down once you are about at the apex and speed your way over.

**hill climbing is not a TT event. do whatever it takes to get up and over that hill quickly, efficiently and most of all -with the least amount of effort so there is something left in the tank once you are over.

this should be a hard effort, but not an all out effort.

it is best to map it out in your head repeatedly before ascention.

Forget the pain. Being able to put up with pain will make you a better climber. I personally think that pain tolerance is 75%.

I converted my road bike (and my wife's) to mountain bike gearing so I use a 22 chainring with a 34 rear cog to keep my cadance up. Good spinning technique and focus help. The loss of 20 pounds of excess fat really made a difference.

Al

Common errors:

1. Using cranks that are too short. I like 5.3 X leg length in inches in flat shoes = crankarm length in millimeters.

2. Spin up the hill, at least when sitting. Mash and you will trash your quads early and you will not do as well. Have the gears you need to spin.

3. You're overweight. Lose it until you see abdominals. This also reduces your cooling costs.

4. Stand up a lot and go fast in a relatively low gear when training on hills. This will give you a lot more musculature to work with when it matters, and then you should alternately stand and sit, to spread the work over more muscle groups. It also gives you the coordination to work with the slightly lower gears.

Forget the pain. Being able to put up with pain will make you a better climber. I personally think that pain tolerance is 75%.


That brings up an interesting, if off topic, point: I heard recently that as long as you're eating, your legs can never give out. The muscles will continue to work forever (well, not literally forever, but you get what I mean). The only thing that gives out is your mind. It can't deal with the pain. Pretty interesting, I thought.

Make sure you are pulling up on the pedals. I personally like to slide back a little on the saddle. If the hill is steep enough actively pull with the arm on the side of your downstroke you can get a little more power that way. I find most importantly for me to get into a comfortable gearing and then get my breathing in order. You cant be huffing and puffing, try to breathe somewhat in concert with your pedalling or at least get in a rhythm. I think Heras said he destroys the field by changing the pace all the time, if you are in a zone/rhythm, even if the pace is higher than normal for you, you will do alright, its when the pace is changed, slow fast, that people start to lose time on climbs.

Yes, a "round" pedal stroke as mentioned above is essential.

I know my stroke could use some concentration, but I've found that most cyclists naturally push down in their stroke, so I tell new people to concentrate on pulling back, like wiping mud off the bottom of the shoe, and it makes a big difference for them. They push down without thinking about it.

My weakness when cycling is on the hills. I have received advice that to improve your hill climbing, climb more hills! I've done that for the last three to four months, but have not seen any improvement. So now it's down to technique (I think). What technique(s) do you use to climb.

I believe what is happening is that I'm not getting efficient leg to pedal transfer of power. Any help on techniques to use?

THANKS!


I've always been a good climber, but I just got much faster going up with a rotor crank. Since there are no dead spots in the pedal stroke, climbing is much easier. Pushing on one crank arm pulls the other through the dead spot.

This is a difficult question to answer. At the risk of sounding egotistical, I am considered to be a "climber" by the members of the two bike groups I ride with. This is because on our hilly/mountain group rides I am usually the first or second person up most of the climbs. I wasn't always a climber though. Here are the things that really worked for me:

1. Hill? What hill? Like RiPHRaPH said, don't let the hill beat you mentally.
2. Love the hill, be one with the hill. I was mentoring someone who asked how I climbed so well and this is what I told her. Now she thinks I am a kook - but it works.
3. Beat the hill. Before a really big hill I always say something like - "ok you son of a b*tch, let's go" (kind of a rough way to talk to something you love, but the hill likes it - no really, she likes it).
4. Sit down! I only stand if I absolutely need to to beat someone in a race - otherwise do it with a quick cadence and a smooth stroke.
5. Control your breathing. Take nice deep even breaths.
6. I count. I don't exactly know what I am counting - it may be my cadence, it may be seconds, it may be breaths, but I get lost in this counting.
7. I attack the last bit of the hill. If you are racing or just trying to beat a friend up a hill, there is nothing that panics the competition as much as you upshifting and accelerating on the last 200 feet of a steep climb. This takes practice, but uphill sprints or accelerations make you a better overall climber.
8. Climb hills (real hills) at least once a week. Practice makes perfect, but don't overdo it.

And now - the real secret.

8. Do all of the above and lose some weight if you can (if you are already skin and bones don't forget to eat some carbs before the ride). I was a goog climber at 6'0" and 197 pounds. I am a better climber at 163.

All of these things worked for me, but they may not for you. Remember - I'm a kook who talks to hills.

Masochism always helps:) I really don't have any specific pointers. I've always enjoyed and have been fortunate enough to be pretty quick on the hills, but I've never thought about my technique too much. Have you determined if you prefer standing or sitting climbing? That was the hardest thing for me to really get down, and I ended up being more comfortable while riding out of the saddle, gripping the brake hoods.

Here's a page about climbing from a guy I've ridden with a few times. http://www.chainreaction.com/hills.htm

I agree wholeheartedly w/ the masochism bit. If you're not improving climbing, then it's cuz you're not pushing yourself hard enough going up the hills. Common advice is to gear down so that you're putting in just as much perceived effort as you were on the flats - how the heck is that gonna help? Hills should be your opportunity to ride on the edge of your pain threshold. That's how you'll get better.

For me, I try to just spin in the lowest gear, and save myself on the easy parts to prepare for the steeper sections.
I make sure I'm riding steadily. When I'm sitting, I try to be steady and not swaying me or the bike at all. I think relaxing the upper body muscles is important (when sitting or standing, gripping onto the bars).
I use a low gear.
Periodically I will stand, either because I can't handle spinning in the lowest gear, or just to stretch out. Usually I go in a pattern of sitting for 30-300 seconds, to standing for 3-30 seconds. When I go to standing, I up the gear by two, and then back down right away when I sit. I try to relax as I pedal standing, and sort of dance on the pedals.
I use a low gear.


I think Arizona-Cyclist gave very good words on this.
Loving the climb does help a lot!
My morale makes a big difference in how I manage my energy on a climb.

Here is what I like to do.
1. In a group start the hill in front so that you do not have to make up as much distance when you get to the summit.
2. Scoot back on the seat to get a little more power.
3. Pedal circles.
4. Relax my arms and body.
5. Ride at your own pace. Don't blow up at the start and fight to make it to the top.
6. Stand up every so often to strech the legs. 7 min + climbs.
7. Hill intervals develop a lot of power. Just by changing your cadence from say 85-95 to 60-70 totaly changes your workout, but I notice benefits from both.
8. Focus on something up the road.
9. Imagine you are in the Tour with thousands of people along the climb.
10. Say "I love to climb hills" over and over. :D

These are just some things that I do and they seem to help.

What RiPHRaPH said is very true.
"many people are beaten on hills before they even start" - Let these people be everyone else.

Some people will just never be good climbers.

When I was racing I could pull a pace line along at 26 mph and sit in a 28 mph pack for 50 miles but I absolutely sucked as a climber.

As mentioned above, your mental state has a very definite effect on your climbing. One other thought I didn't see mentioned; ride with a friend or with several; seems to have a motivating factor which will get you up the hill and in turn improve your climbing over a period of time.

now, I'm a pretty good seated climber, and I can get over most big hills without standing, but maryland (where I live) has a lot of rollers. I find that I can get over them quickly if I just upshift a gear or two, stand, and pound over them. it is just two or three pedal strokes worth. mainly, I was wondering what I should look like when I am standing...should I have my chest out or in? look up or down? how far forward or back should I be?

What does everyone hold (handlebars) as they're standing?
I figure the hoods but does anyone here have a different technique?
Pantani would hold the drops sometimes and I never understood how efficient that was.

I hold on to the hoods. It's quite common to see pros using the drops. Always felt weird to me.

What does everyone hold (handlebars) as they're standing?
I figure the hoods but does anyone here have a different technique?
Pantani would hold the drops sometimes and I never understood how efficient that was.


I feel good grasping the drops. Of course, I waste tons of energy heaving the bike side to side against my pedal strokes, but somehow the psychological advantage of pulling hard outweighs the loss of efficiency.

Hills are all in your head.

I don't think I saw anyone suggest these so I'll throw in my .02 cents.

Belly breathe. This keeps your diaphragm from cramping up (stitches) by forcing it down. Also, try keeping your heels down on your
downstroke, this gets your ankles and calves [more] involved. I have found this helps especially on long/steep climbs.

Don't hunch your shoulders! If you look left and look right and your shoulders block the view you need to chill out.

As most everyone else has suggested: Talk to the hill/your bike/the trees/the road/the sky/God, think about your favorite song, or lying on the sand at the beach. Most anything will work except the hell your going through at that moment. Greg Lemond said all he thought about was "Dairy Queen".

Another thing I've tried that I picked up from Lance when he crashed last year during the Tour: I watched the replay very carefully and I noticed
that when the musette bag caught his handlebars they instantly whipped around to the right. The only way this could've happened is if he had almost
no (hand) pressure on the bars *duh*. I've experimented with it and what I do is barely touch my palms to the bars, leaving my hands open, and use my stomach muscles to remain upright (upright but leaning forward... The same position you'd be in if you were gripping your top bar). This forces all your upper body weight down to your legs. It will feel like you're going to fall over the front of your bars but if you're in a low/high enough gear with enough resistance you'll be able to maintain balance and will notice a marked increase in the power that goes to your pedals instead of down your arms to the bars. Basically, you're using your body weight and gravity to help you climb.

I tried this out this past December as I was riding with a friend. Near the end of our ride there's a series of three ascending hills that work out to be about a mile long. We usually finish off the last hill around 16 mph. Using the technique described above I finished at 18 mph. You need a ton of stomach strength to pull it off so get after those ab crunches and give it a shot! :)

For the most part, I climb gripping the hoods (like the front guy in this picture (http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2003/aug03/morristown/dsc07111.jpg), only standing) but at the end of a long climb, changing to the drops somehow offers me a dramatically different position (or so it feels like).

There is a lot of good techniques given in this thread, but, the big thing that works for me is relaxing and focusing when climbing.

Someone mentioned about when you see the hill we tend to tense up. The trick is to relax and engage the hill. Yes, it's tough but it's only as tough as you make it. It's a mindset and controlling your breathing and engaging instead of fearing goes a long way. Work on some focusing exercises to develop your concentration.

It all starts with relaxation (and some confidence helps too).
--

This is a difficult question to answer. ... Remember - I'm a kook who talks to hills.


Listen to Arizona Cyclist. His advice is spot on. Even if some of it doesn't make sense to you right now, keep it in the back of your head.

Thanks for the great post.

I'll add one more tidbit to the mix. In my mind, the climb does not end at the summit. Once I reach the top, I immediately move to a gear that allows me to spin at a high cadence to clear the lactic acid build up. It makes a huge difference if you're faced with another 40 miles to ride.

-mark

Well, quite a bit of advice out there and much of it conflicting.

It seems that people who LIKE climbing hills climb hills well.

The comment that every hill requires special skills is appropriate. I think of hills as having a "structure" or a "profile". When I approach a hill, I try to size it up mentally and diagnose how I need to attack it. On some hills, you can get a run at them and sort of "vault" them or "roller coaster" them. Other hills don't let you get a "run" at them and you hit their steep section without much momentum. On these you just gear down and take what you can. There are also hills that put you through a reasonably long climb and save the steep part for last. So if you are at your limits when you hit it, you can be toast. I generally avoid going anaerobic on a hill unless I know it is really short.

It seems that most people are of the "no pain - no gain" philosophy of hill climbing. I have gone out to the rockies a number of times and spent vacations climbing a pass or two every day (at least couple of hours per day of climbing). Since I did not know the pass, I generally just geared down and slowed down to be sure that I could make it over the top without breaking down. I have noticed on those long passes that they often hit their maximum steepness in the last stretch and I prefer having reasonably fresh legs when I hit it. After doing one of these, I came back to central Florida with no big expectations of seeing much in the way of gains in hill climbing. I know, everyone thinks we don't have hills, but we have this section out near Clermont that has a series of half mile climbs of up to 10%. I found that when I got back, I could climb those hills at a gear or two higher. So quantity has a quality all its own.

Another thing is just general conditioning. Just being a stronger rider makes a big difference. Of course, you don't have to be a strong rider to climb hills, but if you are not strong, you need gearing appropriate to your aspirations. That is get a low enough gear to handle the biggest nastiest hill you routinely climb. When I started riding, I lived in Lansing MI. We had a local road with some moderate hills called Vermontville Highway. I remember those things feeling like mountains especially after I had climbed a couple. The next year, when I was considerably stronger, I could motor up them like they were no big deal and barely noticed them. As I said, conditioning makes a big difference. If you don't have the time to get in better shape, then get the gearing and pace yourself or you too will be toast.

i'm pretty bad at hills too, but that's mostly because i don't ride up a lot of them. i can usually make it up most hills though...i just tough it out. what's really hard for me is descending. it scares the ever-living sh*t out of me. bumps, road debris, wet pavement...eek! i never feel entirely stable or in control flying down a hill on my road bike. don't get me wrong, going up the hill is hard as hell for me, as i'm a pretty small guy (5'5", 115-120lbs) and really tiny lungs it feels like. i run out of air and get all woozy and light-headed and have to stop. my legs are usually fine though. going up the hill is generally more fun for me than going down the hill.

waaaaaat? decending is the best part of climbing a hill! I'd go out west and climb a 14000 foot mountian just for the opporunity to coast at 50 mph for 4-5 minutes...although I'll admit that wet pavement scares the living **** out of me, especially this time of year in md where it goes above freezing for a couple of hours during the day, and dips below at night. prime black ice...

I used to love descending but now I dislike it, especially since most of the roads here are in really bad condition (all cracked up from harsh winters, and the money devoted to the roads goes into plowing instead of re-pave).
I'm good at handling but my body can't take bumpy rides. I generally love going up, and dread having to go down on the brakes barely faster than I came up.

Here are some mental things to do.

Don't target the top of the hill. Aim for about 10 feet past the crest. That keeps you from giving out just before the top.

Use the "bungee cord" method. This works when it gets really steep. As you are riding, imagine that you have three big bungee cords around your waist. Pick a spot on the road about 20 - 25 ft up, or a tree or post, and mentally "throw" the bungee cord onto the spot. Imagine the cord pulling you up. Hook the second and third cord on as you get closer. "Feel" it pull you up. When you reach this spot, find another anchor and throw your cords again.

Imagine that someone is right on your wheel. Keep him back there.

Concentrate on breathing patterns and spinning.

Lots of good info given here...the best I ever got was to ride THROUGH the climb. Too many riders race to the top and then get beaten at the toughest part...the 30 sec after cresting when you need to suffer the most. Was the best advise I ever got ...thanks Kai!!
Don't ride hills all the time...only ride them really hard once or twice weekly
Alternate standing and sitting to help legs stay fresh
Ride with a faster rider and study them

If all else fails utilize the Jiboffo Method...a mouthpiece with a breathing hole that has surgical tubing to each side of the bars. When it gets steep you insert mouthpiece and steer with head...use hands on knees to assist by pushing...aboout a 25-30% increase in power

Wow. A lot of advice, I hope mine doesn't get lost in all the replies but here are some other things to keep in mind which (I 'm pretty sure) haven't been mentioned.

Experiment with saddle position. I find it works best for me to get pretty far back in the saddle to start with my hands on the tops. This opens up my chest for breathing and gives a very powerful stroke (very bad aero but of course, who cares at those speeds). It also helps in this position to imagine yourself pushing down on your heels (helps you to fully extend your legs and maximize your power from each stroke. If your saddle is set right this shouldn't interfere with your circular pedal stroke).

On longer hills I'll change positions, often switching to a position further up on the saddle and lowering my upper body. This doesn't allow me to breath as well but gives my legs a rest by allowing me to use my upper body weight to "push" the pedals a bit. (I've noticed the pros doing this from time to time).

Also, controlled breathing is key. Concentrate on not panting. Instinct is to concentrate on breathing in hard. Instead, concentrate on breathing OUT hard and letting the lungs naturally refill. This will help you avoid panting (which is very inefficient breathing) and gets rid of more CO2 which is better for the O2 level in your system.

Training-wise, make sure you mix up your hill training. One day spin up the hills, the next day use a much higher gear, get out of the saddle and crank your way up. You have to build muscle strength as well as your aerobic system to do hills well.

Let me add, also, that you should have several hills you ride regularly. Some of them should be hills you can definitely climb; ride these often and use these to work on speed, trying to climb them, on average, faster over time. Some hills should be difficult so you can work on strength climbing them; you ought to tackle them frequently, too. Finally, have a hill or two that is so steep it intimidates you, a hill that put you off the bike the first time you tried to climb it. Plan rides occasionally that give you the option of climbing one of these hills, then, if the ride is going well, and you are feeling up to it, take one on. The first time you make it up is one of the best (and, maybe, most painful) feelings you will ever have on a bicycle.

When you climb hills you know, you can experiment with technique to find what works best for you and what doesn't work.

SMILE. spin and grin. all day long.



they're right about the psychological aspects, but don't worry about the pain/gain angle. that you can't necessarily change. pain means good things, unless its BAD pain, which i'm gathering you'd be able to recognize at this point.

so if you're out solo go ahead and laugh at yourself. yes, you're a crazy bastard wearing some godawful photoelectric colors, perched atop some equally fashion-wretched hunk of overanalyzed machinery. yes, there was a time not too long ago when you were sitting in front of a glowing box looking for wisdom on how to not sit in front of glowing boxes more efficiently. and itwas miiiiighty comfortable there. not nearly so windy. lot less dogs, too. no, that girl in the nissan at the third light back did not think you were hot, sorry. i tried, she's much more into lacrosse types. i know, right? the nerve. who actually plays lacrosse, anyway. damn canadiens, i bet. can't trust em, i tell you. maybe triumph was on to something.


if you're with company, be it competitive or cheerful, nothing beats lookin over and seeing two rows of bigass teeth shining out of the middle of whatever hell you're ascending.


so try distracting yourself (even if it means distracting others, but do be civil.) its requires a leeetle bit of mental aerobics, kindof an athletic doublespeak-- get your respiration and your cadence lined up, be realistic about what you can handle beforehand, and make hills total goofytime.


at least, this is what works for me. some folks'll tell you about x hills to climb with x difficulty. these folks know what they're talking about, listen to em. especially if you got something particular in mind, on a certain date, etc. but if you can make hills something to look forward to, even in a somewhat demented fashion... good times.


happy riding,

matt b.

Lots of advice to pick and choose from! I appreciate it. Has anyone done or prepared for the 8 mile long grade at Lake Tahoe (CA/NV)? Beginning is gradual and then steep last three miles from what I hear. 1000 Ft. + Climb. I think they call it Emerald Bay(?) Anyone conquered this beast? Any advice on how to approach this mound?

Thanks!