Bicycle Mechanics - Was I wrong/need a new lbs

I picked a new beater and took it to my lbs for an overhaul and safty check. They phoned to tell me the problems and I okayed tne new cables and pads, but not a new tire and agreed to the price. When I picked it up the invoice included a new shifter. When they brought me the bike it not only had a new shifter, but a new derailer and a new tire. I told them I wasn't paying for any of the 'extra' work that was done and *****ed loud to the manager. His response was to phone the guy who worked on it as he was new and might not know better. I handed him the invoice and told him I was paying the amount on it only, with new parts or the old ones. I finally just paid the original quote and left. Of course now I need a new lbs, but of a moral concern, I must be getting older (and wiser I hope), was I out of line to be a mean sob after 5 min of futile discusions concerning the new parts?

The thing you left out of your post is, why the mechanic thought you needed a new tire, shifter and derailleur.

For me, the hardest part of doing shop mechanics was figureing out exactly what the customer's intention is. It sounds to me like the mechanic thought you wanted him to make your bike rideable when your intention was to hold the cost down. Somewhere along the line there was a communication failure because those can be two very different things.

This time I'm going to assign most of the communication failure to the bike shop because they telephoned you about needing parts and still didn't get it right. If your bike would have been marginally rideable with the old parts they should have given it to you that way or, if that wasn't going to meet their standards, declined to do the work. I've had to do both in certain circumstances. Had you approached the situation as: "I didn't authorise this, how can we handle this fairly?" I'd be inclined to completely agree with you.

Once you start cussing at them in the bike shop, however, you put yourself into the catagory of somebody they'd prefer not to see ever again. The upshot is that you accomplished your goal because you got a rideable bike at a reduced price and the shop has accomplished their goal because they don't have to deal with you anymore. Looks like a win-win to me.

I was given no indication from anybody at the store why the parts were replaced, so I don't kmow if they were wearing out or busted completly. The manager only heard some carefully choosen words after telling me I had to pay for the parts that were never authorized. Oh well live and learn. Whats a good lbs in T.O., as it would seem I need a new one now.

I finally just paid the original quote and left. Of course now I need a new lbs, but of a moral concern, I must be getting older (and wiser I hope), was I out of line to be a mean sob after 5 min of futile discusions concerning the new parts?

Did you still get the new parts at the original price? If you did then why not continue business with the shop? Clearly they did right by you in the end so they value your business. I am certain they would have liked the whole transaction to be much cleaner and simpler, but it didn't happen and they corrected it.

If your morals are bothering you that much then pay the shop a visit and apologize to the manager for your actions. If you take it in again be sure to tell them exactly what you expect as far as work being done and parts replaced.

All in all it sounds like a pretty good shop to me if they left the new parts on and let you out the door at the original price. Most of the shops around here would have put the old stuff back on and let you on our way knowing you would be back shortly.

Pyze-guy,

I feel I would've done something very similar to how you handled it (correctly or not), and I agree with you all the way. As well, I would feel extremely uncomfortable continue doing business with them, for personal reasons of feeling awkward, and because I would think they didn't want to see me, either.

Jessica

I too would have reacted in the same way. Lucky for me my LBS guys are awsome (but if youre looking for one in T.O. then mine will be too far as i live in mississauga). Just out of curiosity which LBS might this have been?

I too would have reacted in the same way. Lucky for me my LBS guys are awsome (but if youre looking for one in T.O. then mine will be too far as i live in mississauga). Just out of curiosity which LBS might this have been?

I wont publish the name for all to see as the service in the past was good. Mississauga is far, but what is the lbs name in case I ambroken down near harwood hills.

A bike shop that takes on a basket case type repair had better be very good at triage, or when they make the call regarding the extras, have all the extras covered. The shop screwed up. But you did also when you lost your temper. Bikes are not matters of life and death. Although I do have some customers who think so. Losing your temper only makes a tough situation tougher. I would have given you the repair at the original price and apologized. And I have on occaision had do that. Mistakes happen. But over and above everything else, keeping my customers happy is my main focus.

If this shop is any good, they will not let any future dealings with you affect their service. But, as I have found out, one negative experience often chases a customer away for good. I would suggest you give them another chance. If you do not feel good about the initial contact, then bail.

The name of the lbs in Mississauga that I go to is Re-My Sports. (www.remysport.com)

Spewing obsenities over an honest mistake was wrong, especially when you say this LBS has done right by you in the past. Even if you never plan to go back to the LBS, you should go back and apologize to both the mechanic and the owner.

Spewing obsenities over an honest mistake was wrong, especially when you say this LBS has done right by you in the past. Even if you never plan to go back to the LBS, you should go back and apologize to both the mechanic and the owner.

I don't think I mentioned anywhere in the original message that I was swearing at anyone. I wasn't clear enough on the fact that it was after being told that I had to pay for the unrequested and unknown about repairs that I began to use louder words towards the manager. I mentioned to the manager that although I appreciated the fact that they were thorough in their overhaul, these repairs were done without my concent. After being told that they were done and I had to pay, then my words took on a harsher tone. As there were parents and kids in the store, swearing would have made the situation worse for everyone in the store. I may have wanted to call them socksuckers, but that woud have solved nothing.

I assumed the "*****ed" meant you used a phrase that would not be permitted on these pages. Sorry for the misunderstanding. You may still owe an apology, depending on how "harsh" your tone really got. Since you didn't spew obsenities, and since none of us listened in on the phone conversations, I don't think any of us have the facts to say who was right or wrong.

If you think you have unresolved issues with the LBS that a friendly conversation could resolve, go back at a time you think he won't be busy. Otherwise, I'd just find another LBS.

I so agree with Daily Commute.
Pyze you both misbehaved AND got the parts for free.
This is ingratitude indeed.

Pyze, good LBS's in T.O. That Ive had good experience with, helpful and fair prices.
Beaches, Cycle Soloutions Kingston Rd.
Downtown, Earls, Cycle Soloutions Parliament
Uptown, SportSwap
North End, Silent Sports,
East End, D'ornellas
West End, ??
But if you ended up with parts unpaidfor, you do owe them further business...
In this day and age, you cannot do work without approval. And Under the Mechanics Lein act, you were correct, you did not have to pay for unauthorized repairs. However a fair soloution would have been that they offered you the parts cost, not repair cost for them as that was their error.

Friendly on who's part?Oh i see you added some stuff to my bike i didnt want and you didnt ask.To bad,your paying the bill.I wouldnt have if it meant putting the old stuff back on and i wouldnt have payed for the labor either. Do what i ask and if something else shows up,call me and i'll let you know what to do.Thats how it works.

Most LBS suck. I have never had a great experiance at one. I have one I do business with but I don't like them a heck of a lot either. Learn to do the work yourself, it will be cheaper and you will know it is done right.

Thats my opinion.

Once, many years ago I had a customer come in for a repair. The bike had a flat tire, in addition to the problems on the repair order. So I fixed it. The customer flipped, he didn't want the tube repaired, he planned to do it himself(didn't mention this to us before hand) he WAS NOT going to pay for the tube. So I deflated the tire pulled the tube poked an awl thru it, crossed the part and labor off the ticket and rang the guy up.

I like that.

Once, many years ago I had a customer come in for a repair. The bike had a flat tire, in addition to the problems on the repair order. So I fixed it. The customer flipped, he didn't want the tube repaired, he planned to do it himself(didn't mention this to us before hand) he WAS NOT going to pay for the tube. So I deflated the tire pulled the tube poked an awl thru it, crossed the part and labor off the ticket and rang the guy up.

It's not that I was going to fix the derailer, shifter, tire and tube myself, it's that I did say to them. I have my own tires and tubes at home, thanks for the info, I will do it myself. As for the shifter and derailer, they may have needed repairing, they worked okay when the bike was taken in, so to go ahead and replace parts worth about $120 without my knowledge or consent, or have any reason for doing so besides "well, I guess if they were replaced they were broken" to me seems to be taking a few liberties with me and my pocketbook.

Since it seems the broken parts were also pitched out, as I picked the bike up 5min before closing, they was no way to know for sure if there was a problem. In the past when I have needed extra work they have taken me into the shop and shown me the problem so I can see for myself. I wouldn't let a mechanicic do extra work on my car, or a contractor in my kitchen do modifications to my line without first consulting me about the problem, what needed to be fixed and what the cost was going to be. I felt, and still do feel. that ultimatly it is my decision what the end result that I am paying for should be.

Pyze-guy: If that lbs let you walk out of that shop with all of the new parts and charged you only for the origional quote. They did you an exceptional favor. If you were profane in you protest, then you owe them an apology. You are dealing with a jewel of a LBS. Don't change!!!!

Pyze-guy: If that lbs let you walk out of that shop with all of the new parts and charged you only for the origional quote. They did you an exceptional favor. If you were profane in you protest, then you owe them an apology. You are dealing with a jewel of a LBS. Don't change!!!!

Originally the 'need a new lbs' was supposed to be a question, not a statement, so the implication there is my fault for not being clear. However what if I had only $100 to my next payday, no credit card and I could not afford the unrequested repairs, am I to leave my transportation to work behind. Or say I was going to tune the derailer and replace the shifter on my own, they were in working order but wearing out, should I be paying for a mistake made on their end no matter how good the intentions were? I felt no need to provide a detailed list of what not to fix, only what I originally asked for and agreed to, a new headset, brake pads and brake cable, no more and no less.

Honest disagreements happen in business all the time. Whether you got profane or not, there is no excuse for even raising your voice. The LBS owner did the honorable thing by accepting payment only for the amount originally agreed.

Look at it from the LBS' perspective. He had a customer who needed a beater bike back quickly in order to get to work. The bike had obvious problems that could make it unreliable. The LBS worker probably thought he was doing you a favor by getting everything done at once so you could get your transportation back.

If your bike really needed the extra repairs to remain reliable, and if you didn't plan on doing them yourself, you should offer to pay the additional money on installment. If the whole amount is too much, split the difference or pay for the parts only.

And apologize for raising your voice and speaking "harshly."

I also agree with feltup: If money is tight, learn to do the simple repairs yourself. You can usually buy a tool for the price of labor for a project. A good LBS will tell you how to use the tool when you buy it. In the long run, you'll save money. And you can save the LBS for the tough stuff.

I can't tell you how many bikes come in with the request, "Just do this, nothing else". Invariably, I find something else that makes the money the customer wants to spend on "this only" to be wasted if "that" is not taken care of. So I call them. If they approve the amended estimate, I perform the work. If they don't, I will often make them aware the repairs requested are wasting their money, but will fix it anyway. And sometimes I won't fix their bike unless "that" is also taken care of. I learned this lesson as the result of being involved in a lawsuit where my shop had been the last shop to work on the "unsafe" bike. The fact that the bonehead suing had been riding the wrong way and was nailed running a red light didn't matter. He contended I had not informed him of his faulty brakes. I had, but it didn't matter. My insurance company settled and then promptly dropped us.

I am not inferring this was the reason the LBS did the extra work. Just a possible motive. It is much safer to err on the side of caution and fix what you see then let the bike out of your store in an unsafe condition.

From your follow-ups, I gather this was definitely a case of poor communication by the LBS. They took care of it. I think you should give them another chance.

Dont most shops give you your old parts back also. I really like when a lbs screws up like this and somehow,some of you find the owner of the bike at fault. Oh,thanks for doing more then i wanted,i'll just give you my food money and next time maybe you can find some more stuff wrong but dont bother calling me first. Boy you really screwed up by supporting your lbs as evertbody cries about doing and letting them work on your bike.

Dont most shops give you your old parts back also.
I can't speak for other shops, but I always bag the old parts and attach them to the repaired bike.

Sometimes it surprises me that so many people even take their bicycles to a shop. This thread highlights one of many reasons to avoid them. There are between 6-8 bike shops in my county. I've found that one of them employs a mechanic that not only knows what he's talking about. If I decided to have someone else do something to one of my bikes, he's the only one I've bumped into so far that would get the business.
The others shops I've been to on ocassion to pick up a CO2 cartridge or a inner tube. My brief "bike topic" discussions with 2 or 3 of these mechanics would cause you bicycle nightmares.

The major issue for me was that I was not contacted regarding the repairs, and that repairs were done to areas that I said not to do. It was on the invoice not to fix the tire, they put on a tire. If the parts were in need of repair, they call and I okay it. But when I have kept asking why the repairs were done and why was I not contacted a second time about the new found problems, there were no answers. If the manager went and found the mechanic and they told me that the parts were toasted, sorry we should have called, I would have been okay with that. That they did nothing to remedy the situation besides telling me that I had to pay, well then I began to get annoyed.

There seems to be a concensius that I should have thanked them for taking carte blanche liberties, smiled and payed. I don't think so. This is the only time I've ever had a service do more than what what was agreed to, not inform me of these decisions and then expect me to pay. My car mechanic calls about everything he finds, why shouldn't they do the same. It was their mistake ( no matter how good the intent) why should I be making up the difference. No solution was offered on their end besides paying for everything,so to me the only option was to show them the invoice with the original price and tell that that is what we agreed to, that is what I am paying. If this seems to be ingraditude indeed, so be it.

It boils down to this:

1) LBS messed up by doing more than requested w/o permission.
2) You justifiably complained.
3) You unjustifiably got angry instead of resolving the matter civilly.
4) LBS made good by dropping the charges for the unauthorized work.
5) You can make good by apologizing for your anger and thanking LBS for resolving the matter so quickly.

I don't think most posters are arguing you should have to pay for the unauthorized repairs. I've suggested you should volunteer to pay a portion of the costs if the repairs were truly needed, but this is your call. If the repairs weren't needed, then don't volunteer to pay. Let your conscience be your guide.

The major issue for me was that I was not contacted regarding the repairs, and that repairs were done to areas that I said not to do. It was on the invoice not to fix the tire, they put on a tire. If the parts were in need of repair, they call and I okay it. But when I have kept asking why the repairs were done and why was I not contacted a second time about the new found problems, there were no answers. If the manager went and found the mechanic and they told me that the parts were toasted, sorry we should have called, I would have been okay with that. That they did nothing to remedy the situation besides telling me that I had to pay, well then I began to get annoyed.

There seems to be a concensius that I should have thanked them for taking carte blanche liberties, smiled and payed. I don't think so. This is the only time I've ever had a service do more than what what was agreed to, not inform me of these decisions and then expect me to pay. My car mechanic calls about everything he finds, why shouldn't they do the same. It was their mistake ( no matter how good the intent) why should I be making up the difference. No solution was offered on their end besides paying for everything,so to me the only option was to show them the invoice with the original price and tell that that is what we agreed to, that is what I am paying. If this seems to be ingraditude indeed, so be it.
Make everybody happy and go back,say your sorry and buy a new bike and pay msrp.

You took the bike in for a safety check, and an overhaul. You and the LBS probably have two different ideas about saftey. Also, an overhaul is pretty comprehensive. It's not just new cables, and pads. It sounds like an honest mistake by your LBS due to mis-communication, or a simple misunderstanding.

"I handed him the invoice and told him I was paying the amount on it only, with new parts or the old ones. I finally just paid the original quote and left. Of course now I need a new lbs, but of a moral concern, I must be getting older (and wiser I hope), was I out of line to be a mean sob after 5 min of futile discusions concerning the new parts?"

If it was just an honest mistake, (and it sounds like it was), I'd say you probably could have handled it better. If paying for all the parts right then was a problem, I'm sure the LBS would have worked something out with you since an error was made.

Make everybody happy and go back,say your sorry and buy a new bike and pay msrp.

How does buying a new bike at the msrp make me happy? I don't need a new bike. It would sure make them happy as the bikes they carry are nice and pricey.

It boils down to this:

1) LBS messed up by doing more than requested w/o permission.
2) You justifiably complained.
3) You unjustifiably got angry instead of resolving the matter civilly.
4) LBS made good by dropping the charges for the unauthorized work.
5) You can make good by apologizing for your anger and thanking LBS for resolving the matter so quickly.

I don't think most posters are arguing you should have to pay for the unauthorized repairs. I've suggested you should volunteer to pay a portion of the costs if the repairs were truly needed, but this is your call. If the repairs weren't needed, then don't volunteer to pay. Let your conscience be your guide.

perhaps I could have stayed and made more attempts to resolve the issue. At the time it seemed futile due to the repeated claims that they did not know why the repairs were done. I asked and kept getting the same answer "I don't know". After a while anger begins to enter the picture as frustratuion begins to build. Since they have done good work before and I could have made more attempts at clearing up the matter giving them my business in the future is an option.

It boils down to this:

1) LBS messed up by doing more than requested w/o permission.
2) You justifiably complained.
3) You unjustifiably got angry instead of resolving the matter civilly.
4) LBS made good by dropping the charges for the unauthorized work.
5) You can make good by apologizing for your anger and thanking LBS for resolving the matter so quickly.

I don't think most posters are arguing you should have to pay for the unauthorized repairs. I've suggested you should volunteer to pay a portion of the costs if the repairs were truly needed, but this is your call.

this sounds like the best summation of the whole situation, and the best way to handle it now. I am lucky enough to have a terrific lbs that I got hooked up with by riding with the owner and mechanics on some group rides. However I understand the lbs side of the case here, and it could very well be a situation of erroring on the side of safety.

If you feel like it was just an honest mistake, just go back and tell them you've been voted off the bike forums until you apologize. I'm sure they'll get a good laugh out of it. Then sincerely apologize to the person you spoke with. On a personal note, I would see if I could work out a deal with them to pay for the extra parts they put on my bike, but not for the work, since it was an error. Or at least try and make amends in some similar fashion.

Make everybody happy and go back,say your sorry and buy a new bike and pay msrp.

spoken like a true bitter, and egotistical person. I would guess you have had a bad lbs experience in the past.

lighten up...life will be more enjoyable for you and all those around you.

Wow,what a nice job of judging me. Never had a bad time at the lbs,at least not as bad as your coment. They screwed up and some of you are finding a reason to make it look like pyze-guy did something wrong. Bottom line,they should have called before doing anything other then what he wanted and then just giving him the bill a hoping he would just say nothing and pay is BS,dont you think?

I wasen't trying to yank your chain pyze-guy. They should have called you. But your tale reminded me of a time when I gave the customer what he wanted and pissed him off even more than the extra $8 dollar charge. :rolleyes:

I will call for any extra over about $10. I am wasting time for less than $10 because if the customer gave me a number that I can't reach him at (which is most often) then I have to box up all the loose stuff to keep track of it, pack it all away and wait until they decide to call me back, to say "yes replace the missing chainring bolt"

You should aquire tools and learn to do as much repair as you feel comfortable with esp. if you are into beaters. (I like all kinds of beaters: bikes, cars, and motorcycles)
Will you be as good as a professional mechanic(A real pro not a hack)? Probably not. Why? Because you will perform a task a few times a year and it is hard to get good at something you don't do very often(I have trued over thirtythousand wheels). Buy real tools if you want to go this route. No junk. Buy a good manual and ask questions at places like this forum, there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this site. I have made no permanent enimies at the local shop ask them stuff as well. It is good to be on a decent relationship with your shop, they have tools that you will never buy and you may need to have something pressed, or faced or tapped someday.

out of line to be a mean sob

you said it yourself!

You asked for a safety check. Obviously the bike was in an unsafe condition when you presented it to the shop. They carried out the work required to make it safe. This was for your benefit, not theirs!

"I never asked for it" is second only to "JRA" in the 'Concise Book of Lame Excuses', of which every good bike shop should have sitting right next to the cash desk.

I picked a new beater and took it to my lbs for an overhaul and safty check. They phoned to tell me the problems and I okayed tne new cables and pads, but not a new tire and agreed to the price. When I picked it up the invoice included a new shifter. When they brought me the bike it not only had a new shifter, but a new derailer and a new tire. I told them I wasn't paying for any of the 'extra' work that was done and *****ed loud to the manager. His response was to phone the guy who worked on it as he was new and might not know better. I handed him the invoice and told him I was paying the amount on it only, with new parts or the old ones. I finally just paid the original quote and left. Of course now I need a new lbs, but of a moral concern, I must be getting older (and wiser I hope), was I out of line to be a mean sob after 5 min of futile discusions concerning the new parts?

The LBS was wrong. They called you with a repair estimate for your approval. You approved the repairs based on that estimate. They then changed the scope of the repairs and changed the price without your approval.

There seems to be a concensius that I should have thanked them for taking carte blanche liberties, smiled and payed. I don't think so.

Actually, I don't agree with you. I get the felling that most here agree that the LBS screwed up. And that after the initial emotional reaction from both, the LBS covered their mistake. Since I was not there and can only use your words to form my opinion, then what I have to say must be taken with a grain of salt.

You were not dealt with properly in the beginning, but ultimately you were. I definitely do not think you should have smiled and allowed them to bend you over the counter. But they didn't. They acknowledged their mistake by not making you pay for it. That said, the manner in which this whole thing went down seems more important than the final outcome. The ultimate solution is to never grace their premises again.

I learned back in the 80's, this lesson. A customer came in with a broken Toys R Us bike. A little 12" wheeled beauty that cost maybe $25 new. The cranks had busted loose from the plastic bearings and the chain fell off. The woman was quite demanding. When I told her the bike was unfixable, she indicated to me that we had no business being in the repair business if we could not perform a simple task like putting a chain back on. My repair day was not going well anyway, and this woman was only feeding the fire of my frustration. After some banter back and forth with me being as nice as I could muster and she being, well, a bi*tch, I lost it. I told her to take her $5 bike and get out of my store.

It might have ended there had her husband not gotten involved. He penned a letter to us and cc'd it to the Attorney General of Maine. In this letter, the facts of the meeting became gigantic abuses of her sensibilities and that if they could, they would see us out of business. What was the lesson I learned? That no matter what I think of the customer, they are never to be denigrated or spoken harshly to. I screwed up when I allowed her bad day to become my bad day. A lesson I carry to this day.

And my point? Well, this is the possible aspect of your situation I have no idea of. If the shop was denigrating or somehow made you feel bad because of your demands, then I can definitely understand your harsh feelings and reaction when you found what you assumed was bill padding. And how you deal with this is not something anyone can give advice on.

I will call for any extra over about $10.

I tell customers that I will call them if the actual cost is 10% or more over the estimate. This usually will cover the smaller extras like a cable or housing. But the biggest thing I try to do is nail the estimate right at the get go. But, as anyone who has twisted wrenches in a shop knows, you very seldom catch everything the first go around. That is one reason I wash every repair. It then receives a second look before any repairs are started. The other reasons I wash every repair are a cleaner work space, more efficient mechanic time, and the customers absolutely love it.

All we should expect is the lbs to do the same as we expect any other thing we have repaired. Call if anything else is wrong,otherwise just do what we asked,bottom line isnt it. Oh,its ok for him to get mad.

you said it yourself!

You asked for a safety check. Obviously the bike was in an unsafe condition when you presented it to the shop. They carried out the work required to make it safe. This was for your benefit, not theirs!

"I never asked for it" is second only to "JRA" in the 'Concise Book of Lame Excuses', of which every good bike shop should have sitting right next to the cash desk.


Their overhaul/safety package at the lbs lists exactly what is done, on the wall for all to see. It was not an all encompassing statement.

Did the shop come clean as soon as you presented the original invoice or did they continue to argue price with you for a bit? Was the angry part after you presented the invoice? If the answer is "yes" to both these questions, you owe the shop squat; they owe you one major apology. If they came clean upon seeing the invoice, I might use them again, but see below.

Stuff like this is why I steer clear of bike shops for repair and purchase of bikes. I've been sold defective bikes by shops (which they then refused to repair without being paid), had one laugh (literally) at one of my Peugeots (and then try to sell me a new bike to replace my "junk"). Get yourself a manual (Zinns is a good starting point; Barnett's if you wanna go the whole way; older manuals can be good if you like old bikes) and learn to do it yourself. The only down point to this is you spend $ on tools; I bet my tool kit is worth more than all eight of my bikes put together. I do everything, including wheel building.

The advantages to learning your own repair are tremendous; one of which is you become a lot better attuned to your bikes, plus you avoid shops. I'm sure there are good ones out there; but darned if I know where. They're simply parts bins to me.

"Did the shop come clean as soon as you presented the original invoice or did they continue to argue price with you for a bit? Was the angry part after you presented the invoice?"

They argued at first. Angry after.

If you need a shop, check out Dukes on Queens and Trail Blazers which is also on Queens. Talk to Terry at Trail Blazeres, hes a great guy.

If you need a shop, check out Dukes on Queens and Trail Blazers which is also on Queens. Talk to Terry at Trail Blazeres, hes a great guy.

Damn, forgot all about Dukes. Never been to trail blazers but might check it out. Thx