Triathlon - Beginner Runner Question - Dumb on my part

Got talked into doing a half-marathon for future longer Triathlons. Run is my weak spot & I do not train for it as I should. Been able to do 5K & 10K with no training @ 9:15 & 10:15 pace respectively. Basically walked the last 7 miles, probably ran about 1.5 of last 7 miles due to extensive cramping mostly my quads were shot, & I lost 4.5 LBS(total weigth 168 lbs prior to start). Finished right @ 2:40 for 13.1 miles, not good at all I know especially since @ 10K I was @ 66:15. My real core is cycling which I do between 100-120 miles a week.

Do short tri's with no run over 5K to cover up my run or walk a lot of the run. Feel it is time to improve & give a real effort. Have or had a back back which did not casue me any issues during run. How much time/training to get 10-20% improvement? Say an 8 minute mile or so. Or is this just crazy goal? I have not run at all previous to race for at least 6 months. Do a lot of cycling(80%) with some elliptical(10%) & swim(10%) training. I shuld be better balanced, will convert a bike day to a run day. I can ride 50-60 miles fairly easily. Utilizing 9 effort I typically average just over 21 in drops/no wind/flat. By the way, day 1 & 2 after event I could not walk much at all. Day 3 I can get around but I am sore. My quads still cramp a bit when I stand up. No blisters on my feet either thank goodness.

Looked at some sites with 16 week training plans for half marathons. Not as much mileage as I thought. Just curious what I can expect as improvement. Any training suggestions. I know I did not train properly & last two miles were brutal.

I'd use the winter months to focus on running, picking a 10K or 1/2 marathon to train for. I'd highly recommend finding a training group with a coach to do this training.

You do need to increase your base training on the run so you have the endurance to finish the running and not hurt yourself. However, this in itself will not make you faster. You have to run faster to get faster. This entails running at lactate threshold (also called tempo) and VO2 max intervals.

Traditional running training involves 3 focused running sessions a week: long, slow run, tempo runs, and track work. You can also throw in 1-2 "recovery runs" during the week which are short distance at long slow run pace or slightly faster. Check out the Runner's World calculator here to find your paces for this stuff: http://www.runnersworld.com/cda/trainingcalculator/0,7169,s6-238-277-279-0-0-0-0-0,00.html

I'm willing to bet that your cramping was caused by salt deficiency. It was hot during your run, correct? Try using salt tabs for your longer training runs (I prefer Thermolytes). Other than that just get out there and run. Increase your weekly mileage by about 10% and do one long run per week to account for 30-40% of your total mileage. Don't be afraid to go slow at first. Running longer distances is largely about building your aerobic engine.

The temperature was in mid 70's @ 7:00 AM but very very humid. Move to high 70's when my corral started, then migrated into mid 80's about 40 minutes into race. A lot of my friends, co-workers, & other participants were complaining how their times were 30 - 90 sec/mile slower than normal. Pro times were also slower than normal. Stopped at every water stop but small cups were half full, felt a bit guilty taking 3-4 cups every stop. Being in the back was a bit chaotic @ water stops - probably lost 3-4 minutes waiting for water @ water stops. Event was Rock n Roll 1/2 Marathon in Va. Beach, Va - very friendly race. Took half fluids cytomax & half water. After 3 days my legs have finally loosened up.

I am aware that intervals are required to get faster, just like cycling & base in important. I am not sure I have the patience to get better running vs. cycling/swimming. We will see though, just curious in what type of gains I can get in 6 months. Thanks for the information. Knew it would be hard but I learned something.

My aerobic capability is ok with present run pace, I never got winded & was easily holding conversations during the race. Cramping just would not let me run without some wild thigh & some calf convulsions. That is not to say I can not improve cardio, but it was not the limiter. Whereas when I cycle sprint up to say 30-31 mph for 30 secs or so I am definitely exceeding my cardio & recover in 45 secs.

I disagree that your problem was caused by salt deficiencies. If you run faster than you are able to handle for races 10k+, cramping is a common manifestation - note that you won't necessarily be out of breath when you cramp, and at marathon distance, it's VERY common to cramp at mile 22+ even while your HR is below 150. Salt problems certainly can be a problem in long endurance races like the Half-iron and marathon and beyond, but half marathons are too short for the electrolytes to play a major factor. If you doubt this, I'd be 99% certain that if you went out this weekend, took a whole bunch of salt tabs and ran a HM again, you'd finish in a similar overall time despite the tabs.

I'm not really a triathlete (yet), but I am a very experienced runner, from 5k to marathon distances, and with methodical training (and very limited talent based upon my HS results 10 years ago), dropped my half marathon time from a 1:45 to a much more competitive 1:25 in the past 2 years, after a big plateau from ages 20-30.

The key to running 5k+ distances well is to gradually, but overall, SIGNIFICANTLY increase your training volume. When I trained at 35 miles per week (about 5 miles per day, 7 days per week averaged out), it didn't matter how hard I trained; I improved for about 3 months, and then hit a total performance plateau. I was never able to "compete" at the half marathon distance with this training volume, although I could complete it (painfully). I did ok at 5ks, but the lack of endurance really showed up with slwoingtimes as the distance increased. Interestingly, speedwork was not a critical factor for me; this has been echoed by many - if you're running 70mpw, you will decimate somone of similar genetic ability at races of 5k and beyond distances who runs 35 mpw but does a lot harder overall workouts. I train at 8:00-9:00 min/mile, but race half marathons at 6:30min/mile. The volume is absolutely critical for running to your potential, and I suspect that most triathletes err way too far on the low side of mileage when it comes to running when they decide to take it more seriously.

How many miles per week are you running consistently? Also, are you on a training plan that incrementally increases the running volume? And how old are you? 8:00min/mile is brisk but reasonable for a HM for younger folks, but that's very fast for most people in the 50+ AG.

Also, check out the Mcmillan Running Calculator (http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm) online. You'll likely see that your race times dramatically worsen from 5k - half marathon as compared to what the calculator shows should be your 'potential' if you are training at 70 miles per week. (The data come from groups of people training at about 70mpw.)

I just re-read your original post, and realized that for someone of your relative running inexperience, my post above regarding increasing volume would be significantly too difficult for you since you've never done any sort of dedicated run training at all.

Buy any beginner's running book, pick a plan that involves a bit more running than you've ever done before, and stick to it like glue. 10-12 week plans are a good easy start. I think a plan that averages 20-25 mpw and peaks at around 30 would be good for you. After you do this, I suspect your race times will improve a LOT since you still haven't made the easy initial gains yet. Once you start to "plateau" on the beginner training, then the volume argument above becomes critical.

Stopped at every water stop but small cups were half full, felt a bit guilty taking 3-4 cups every stop. Being in the back was a bit chaotic @ water stops - probably lost 3-4 minutes waiting for water @ water stops.

Try a hydration belt. I have a 4 bottle Fuel Belt, also has a small bag for gels, salt tabs, etc. I use this regularly on my longer runs now, and it makes a big difference.



I am not sure I have the patience to get better running vs. cycling/swimming. We will see though, just curious in what type of gains I can get in 6 months.

Keep up with regular runs, as others have said, building a base is essential, no matter what discipline you are trying to improve on. I just started running this year again in April (after two back surgeries since '05); I just did my 1st 1/2 marathon last weekend and finished it in 1h 48m. I've run several 5K and 4 mile races, and have improved to a sub 8 min mile, in just 6 months of "serious running", which for me means about 230 miles total.

I'm looking to do my 1st marathon in early 2009 (probably New Orleans!), and am looking forward to the challenge! And weight should not deter your efforts, I'm 5'09" and weigh 187-190, depending on my workouts/diet. Running has also made me a stronger/faster bike rider, and I'm becoming a firm believer in cross training!

I'm still very new, and I have found that just working on my base has brought forth very nice increases in pace.

...I am aware that intervals are required to get faster...

Intervals are the icing on the cake...and you don't have the cake yet.

Intervals are the icing on the cake...and you don't have the cake yet.

Haven't you ever just eaten the icing? ;)

It's great at first but you pay for it later!

Update: Taking what everyone said & updating my training plan. Got one question related to my knees. Everything is fine, but the inside of my knees. As you look at me 3 O'clock position on right knee & 9O'clock on left knee. Just a bit sore/tight especially when going upstairs. Seems to be getting better until I did a stiff 20 mile ride 8 days after my half marathon. Not sure if my knees hurt earlier on since I was not moving very much.

Thanks

Sooo, whats the plan, share the wealth...


It sounds like we are pretty similar in ability and background, my plan:

Tuesdays Outside Hilly Run, Hard, High HR
Thursday and Saturday - Easy pace, Low HR, gradually increasing ten seconds a mile/week

I'm on week 4 and its going well.

W1 Tu4 Th3 Sa5
W2 Tu4 Th3 Sa6
W3 Tu4 Th3 Sa7
W4 Tu4 Th3 Sa8
W5 Tu4 Th4 Sa8
W6 Tu4 Th4 Sa9
W7 Tu4 Th5 Sa9
W7 Tu4 Th5 Sa10
Evaluate

The Saturday 5 mile start was a distance I could do easy and still maintain a comfortable pace.