Northeast - Sea Gull Century - What to expect, whos riding

Bikeforums.net is a forum about nothing but bikes. Our community can help you find information about hard-to-find and localized information like bicycle tours, specialties like where in your area to have your recumbent bike serviced, or what are the best bicycle tires and seats for the activities you use your bike for.




Pages : [1] 2 3

J.Lockdown
09-06-08, 08:46 AM
This will be my first year at attemping the Sea Gull Centry out on the eastorn shore. I have not done anything around 100 miles yet, 50 being my longest ride. I am currently trainning for 100 miles and this is on a rolling route so I figure that should put me in good shape.

Anyway since I have yet to do a 100 mile ride, along with this particular ride, should I expect anything? I have done riding out on the Outer Banks so I have done some 50 mile rides on the flats in wind. Also who will be riding in it? Cause might be nice to meet some of the folks from the forum and maybe do a pace line if its to windy?


songfta
09-06-08, 11:56 AM
The quick bits about the Sea Gull Century:

1. It's very flat - the only major climbs are on the bridges leading to and from the island.

2. There are monster pacelines (gotta cheat the wind, right?), so it's good to be comfortable riding in big groups. As such, you need to be very mindful of your fellow riders, as the accidents can be gigantic.

3. If you can get up to, say, a 62-65 mile ride without any problems, a 100-miler will be attainable. And the Sea Gull is a great way to go, given its flat terrain.

Should be fun! Dunno if I'll be there or not, but if I go, I'll let the forum know.

HC203
09-06-08, 12:16 PM
Some say it is the easiest century you can do. I did it years ago when I was out of shape and again last year with kids. This year, better shape, no kids. The pacelines are long and sometimes they are all lined up behind a few tandems like a train. I'll be there hopefully meeting up with some Baltimore folks.


derath
09-06-08, 12:21 PM
I can't comment. The only 2 years I have done this ride were the two rainy as CR@P years in a row in recent history. I am a bit gun-shy about going again.

-D

JoelS
09-06-08, 12:22 PM
I rode it in '98. Fun ride! The wind can be a killer. Thanks to a paceline, we finished in something like 4 hours.

J.Lockdown
09-06-08, 12:36 PM
I have done some pace line riding but in mostly smaller groups, 6 to 2 people. I know all the hand singals, edicit, and calls. That said it would be interesting to do a large pace line.

Should I plan to bring food for the ride? and how fast you think is the average for most. I have been able to do 25 miles flat a month ago at the beach which is flat.

Worst case, I hit the wall at 60 or so miles and have to make it back, but still made it 60 miles in the century.

veloellen
09-06-08, 03:59 PM
There are rest stops every 25 or so miles - fig newtons, bananas, watery gatorade, etc. The last rest stop is pie and ice cream. I've been doing the ride since 1990 when there were 600 riders and a mass start. If you don't have a room yet - you'll be making LOTS of calls finding one within 20 miles. Check out Maggs Center on campus the night before if you can - they have a nice wine and cheese gig and lots of vendors with clothes etc on the cheap. Also, a nice dinner the past few years THAT IS FREE! The day of the ride they have a beer garden - your wallet this time but fun. The metric is much more laid back than the century. We are never in any rush and I'm usually done the metric by 2 and my husband is done the century by 3. My husband is probably an above average cyclist and probably averages about 20+ for the century. I'm slow - usually about 12 - 14 on the roads her in Baltimore but average a bit higher there since its flat and you get on some fast wheels.
HAve fun. LEaving for CWC now.

J.Lockdown
09-07-08, 11:45 AM
I am planning on just driving in that morning for the centruey. My legs have problems getting up and going for early rides so driving 2 hours should get them going. Plus rather not spend the extra money if possible and 2 hour drive for me is nice. But I should definitly be coming and hopefully will meet up with some people.

mattyknacks
09-07-08, 08:56 PM
The G/F and I are driving down from NYC to do the metric century. Hope to meet some of you guys and gals during the ride. We will be the ones without the funny accents:lol:

emcb1230
09-08-08, 07:40 AM
If you don't have a room yet - you'll be making LOTS of calls finding one within 20 miles.

hmmmm, so its gonna be tough to find a room in Salisbury? That may make my decision to do this century a little easier.

StanSeven
09-08-08, 08:08 AM
If there's no wind or rain, you won't find a faster or easier course. The food at the rest stops is good and the pie and ice cream at the last stop makes the final 17 miles easy.

The problem is the huge pacelines/peloton that build up. Riders tend to group and wait for large pacelines to form at the start and rest stops. Once a group starts, other riders join in. So you might have two hundred riders doing 25 mph that don't know each other with mixed riding skills and experience. Add to that, these pacelines are flying by other riders that often are struggling and going slow. The crashes often involve a couple dozen riders.

rizz
09-08-08, 10:58 AM
The number one rule to remember when doing your first century, especially on a flat, fast course like this: Go at your own pace. If you see a line rolling past at 25 MPH, let them go unless you can maintain that pace, even while drafting. If another passes at 18 MPH and that's more your speed, jump on it as getting out of the wind is a priority on this route.

If you see the Bearded, Chicken-Legged Racer Guy(tm) on a grey CAAD9 with '09 Rival, that's me. My Neuvation wheels make it easy to spot me in a crowd. Say hi.

maxine
09-08-08, 12:18 PM
I'm in, rider # 355. The biggest roll of the dice with this ride is the weather. It can be absolutely perfect (mid-70's, sunny, light breeze) or absolutely horrible (upper 40's, day-long rain, high winds.) I note that this year it's being held on October 4th. For at least the previous 5 or 6 years, and I think for longer than that, it's always been Columbus Day weekend. I wonder if they had a scheduling conflict, or were just worried about the weather since Columbus Day is relatively late this year.

So, on the clothing front, be prepared for anything.

Bring some money with you. If you're so inclined, you can get a hot meal at the concession on Assateague Island, at the 62-mile mark. A few years back (on one of those aforementioned cold, wet, windy rides, when a bunch of us were huddling under the hand dryers in the ladies room, desperately trying to dry off and warm up a little, LOL!) I took the time to get a grilled chicken sandwich and fries. I don't normally eat meals during a century ride, but on that particular day, it was *just* what I needed!

Others have made good comments about the pacelines. Something else: the Seagull attracts a lot of first-time century riders, such as yourself, but who may not have your road-riding experience, or any experience in handling themselves around thousands of other cyclists. Especially early in the ride, when things are more bunched up, fully expect that, at any moment, the cyclist right in front of you is going to do something stupid. :)

To the poster who asked about finding a room in Salisbury: I would be surprised if you find anything this late. Also: every hotel/motel in the Salisbury area doubles its rates for the weekend of the Seagull. Because I'm coming from so far away, anyway, I just keep going another 30 miles and stay in Ocean City. For the same (or cheaper) price, I get a nicer place to stay, and a more fun post-ride-party venue. I'm toying with the idea of camping on Assateague this year.

J.Lockdown
09-08-08, 05:19 PM
If there's no wind or rain, you won't find a faster or easier course. The food at the rest stops is good and the pie and ice cream at the last stop makes the final 17 miles easy.

The problem is the huge pacelines/peloton that build up. Riders tend to group and wait for large pacelines to form at the start and rest stops. Once a group starts, other riders join in. So you might have two hundred riders doing 25 mph that don't know each other with mixed riding skills and experience. Add to that, these pacelines are flying by other riders that often are struggling and going slow. The crashes often involve a couple dozen riders.

The pace lines are what concern me the most with people I have never ridden with before. I dont have a problem riding in oen its just I dont want someone that is not paying attention to bump me. The more people the more likely u will go down.

StanSeven
09-09-08, 10:35 AM
Just stay to the right and you'll be fine. The people that get bumped are in the middle of the road riding slow and weaving

NoRacer
09-09-08, 11:37 AM
Here's my crappy cell phone pix from last year:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v285/NoRacer/Sea%20Gull%20Century%202007/?albumview=slideshow

Maxine appears in the second pic (to the left in the pink jersey). ;)

USAZorro
09-09-08, 03:17 PM
I rode the same two years as one of the previous poster's. 2005 and 2006 - lots of wind and some rain thrown in for good measure.

I can imagine that if you're not riding in a tropical storm, this would be a very fun century. Without question, the support is great. Good luck, hope you have good weather, and don't get caught up in bridge construction.

J.Lockdown
09-10-08, 12:23 PM
Here's my crappy cell phone pix from last year:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v285/NoRacer/Sea%20Gull%20Century%202007/?albumview=slideshow

Maxine appears in the second pic (to the left in the pink jersey). ;)

Very cool pictures of the event. Looks like theirs going to be a bunch of people their.

I need to get a new saddle and bibs before the event though. Saddle is needed the most cause the stock one that came with my bike just blows. Theirs no way im spending 100 miles on it, cause at 50 miles it just gets annoying.

Porter20
09-17-08, 09:29 PM
Alrighty sports fans. After looking at this one for a while; I finally pulled the trigger & am driving up from South Carolina to ride in this thing. I haven't been riding much the last month (I am letting this thing called work get in the way of my priorities); but figure I have 3 weeks to get my legs ready for it & still have a couple pounds to lose to get to riding weight. I noticed that I was rider number: 5529; which means that is quite a turnout. I have no idea what I am wearing that day; hopefully not a rainjacket!!

For those of you who have ridden this in the past; can you offer some insight on the after ride events? Particularly I have a some questions regarding the "lawn party": Should I bring a chair? Can I bring a cooler with my own adult beverages? Can friends who are not riding the event come by & enjoy the band with me? Do a lot people hang out for the event? Also, can someone let me know if a post race meal is included in the cost of registration? Or do you have to pay for the post race meal? Thanks in advance.

hrt4me
09-17-08, 09:40 PM
Been on the fence about this one... even though I'd be coming from NoVA (Tyson's Corner), I'd prefer to have convenient lodging... I'm comfortable riding in groups and pacelines, but you guys make these seem downright dangerous...

FatguyRacer
09-18-08, 06:02 AM
I've done about 13 of them so far. I love this ride, but this year I just dont feel like it. I'll be camping that weekend in Caroline County.

NoRacer
09-18-08, 06:22 AM
For those of you who have ridden this in the past; can you offer some insight on the after ride events? Particularly I have a some questions regarding the "lawn party": Should I bring a chair? Can I bring a cooler with my own adult beverages? Can friends who are not riding the event come by & enjoy the band with me? Do a lot people hang out for the event? Also, can someone let me know if a post race meal is included in the cost of registration? Or do you have to pay for the post race meal? Thanks in advance.

I don't remember anything being free during the "lawn party". I remember having to buy tickets for food and beer. The only thing I saw given away was Red Bull by the Red Bull Girls in their Red Bull car along the course. The rest of it, you paid for.

You should be able to bring a lawn chair. At times, it was so crowded under the tents that you weren't going to find a seat and had to sit under the sun, but last year was an anomaly compared to many of the preceding years (from what I've read). Who knows, it may be stormy again this year.

NoRacer
09-18-08, 06:29 AM
Been on the fence about this one... even though I'd be coming from NoVA (Tyson's Corner), I'd prefer to have convenient lodging... I'm comfortable riding in groups and pacelines, but you guys make these seem downright dangerous...

What is dangerous is the newbie rider who goes somewhere where they shouldn't or panics at the sound of fast approaching bicycles. Other than that, ride by yourself if that suites you or ride in a paceline who's speed you are comfortable with if you have the experience, but don't make this century your first attempt at riding in a paceline. There's too many people out there to make this a "paceline training" ride.

You still have to be aware of motor vehicle traffic on many stretches of the course, too.

G-Whacker
09-18-08, 07:01 AM
Been on the fence about this one... even though I'd be coming from NoVA (Tyson's Corner), I'd prefer to have convenient lodging... I'm comfortable riding in groups and pacelines, but you guys make these seem downright dangerous...

There's a brand new Hampton Inn in Fruitland (about 1.5 miles from the start @ SU) give tham a shot.
You'll be more than comfortable on this ride- it's really more of a party than a serious century. You can choose your speed and find a group that fits you really easily on this ride. The pacelines can get long, but that just means less work for everyone.

Is anyone doing the Sunday feast/ ride? I'm doing the Old Mill for the first time this year and was wondering if there is a normal depart time for the ride part. (If it's raining-I'm driving!)

FatguyRacer
09-18-08, 10:14 AM
I remember having to buy tickets for food and beer. The only thing I saw given away was Red Bull by the Red Bull Girls in their Red Bull car along the course.

This is a good deal considering how expensive Red Bull is. :lol:

J.Lockdown
09-18-08, 10:28 AM
Been on the fence about this one... even though I'd be coming from NoVA (Tyson's Corner), I'd prefer to have convenient lodging... I'm comfortable riding in groups and pacelines, but you guys make these seem downright dangerous...

I am just a little north of you and will be making the drive that morning. I need time for my legs and body to wake up so the drive should take care of that. That said I have not signed up yet and will have to pay the higher rate. I am doing a 55-60 mile ride Saturday on a very rolling route and want to make sure I am happy with my current performance. Like I did 44 miles on a rolling route without problems so I am pretty sure I can do 100 on flats if I pase myself. Just need to do around 20mph and I will be good, cause on rolling that is what I can do mostly without problem.

Like dont get me wrong I have not do any huge pacelines but I have done them in all my group rides lately. Its not that bad you just need to watch out for other people, because you got guys that stand and then move all over the place. As soon as I see I guy stands and move around a lot I watch him for the rest of the ride cause they are the ones that take you out. But worse case you do go down, u can stay I was in a wicked pace line crash lol.

J.Lockdown
09-20-08, 07:35 PM
So I just signed up tonight after doing a hard ride today to see how I would hold up. So I am all setup to ride got #5617 for the ride.

Anyway should be fun but what happens in the rain? I assume they still ride but since I have never ridden in the rain any gear that I might want to pickup?

Porter20
09-20-08, 08:05 PM
So I just signed up tonight after doing a hard ride today to see how I would hold up. So I am all setup to ride got #5617 for the ride.

Anyway should be fun but what happens in the rain? I assume they still ride but since I have never ridden in the rain any gear that I might want to pickup?

They will still run this thing in the rain. My suggestion is the cheapest plastic rain cover for you. Chances are you won't be riding in the rain a lot, so there is no reason to spend 120 on a full blown rainsuit. People also recommend shower caps to help keep your head dry; although I have never used one before. But we are staying positive!! NO RAIN

J.Lockdown
09-20-08, 08:30 PM
Yeah, I am not buying one till I know if its a yes or no on the R word for that day. I have never road in those conditions before and dont really plan to, but for the money to enter it, it might have to ha.

But I am thinking NO R also.

Porter20
09-22-08, 08:32 PM
Yeah, I am not buying one till I know if its a yes or no on the R word for that day. I have never road in those conditions before and dont really plan to, but for the money to enter it, it might have to ha.

But I am thinking NO R also.

It is no fun riding in the rain.

Congrats on pulling the trigger & signing up for this. I am assuming this is your first 100 mile ride? If so enjoy; the first one is always memorable & the felling of accomplishment is absolutely awesome. I am rider #5529; so if you see me say hey! I am not sure what I am wearing but chances are it is my Orange Clemson Jersey.

J.Lockdown
09-23-08, 12:10 PM
It is no fun riding in the rain.

Congrats on pulling the trigger & signing up for this. I am assuming this is your first 100 mile ride? If so enjoy; the first one is always memorable & the felling of accomplishment is absolutely awesome. I am rider #5529; so if you see me say hey! I am not sure what I am wearing but chances are it is my Orange Clemson Jersey.

I bet it would not be fun.

Thanks and yeah it will be my first 100 mile ride. I have done 40 to 60 mile rides but that was on rolling routes and with smaller groups. I am so excited to do the ride to because u can say I have ridden a 100 mile event and feel proud (I am not trying to up play the whole deal but its still cool). I will be out their with my bike, probably white descent jersey unless I buy another one, blue helmet, black shorts, and red Oakley with the red lenses.

Just an idea to anyone thats riding maybe we all meet up and ride until we find are paces in the different pace lines?

G-Whacker
09-23-08, 06:47 PM
#2985
I'll be the nondescript guy in the nondescript jersey riding the nondescript bike.
I'll be leaving as early as possible to take advantage of faster riders behind me, so if you're in the tunnel around 7-7:30 bring a rope and give me a tow!

If the forecast calls for fog/rain, don't bother with the helmet stickers, after last year's ride, I was still finding those stickers on the route(s) in April!

J.Lockdown
09-23-08, 07:02 PM
Yeah I will be out their ready to ride at 7 cause I rather get going sooner then later ha.

Porter20
09-23-08, 08:26 PM
I am probably gonna wait until a little later. I am thinking closer to 8. I want to give it a chance to warm up; plus I have about 45 minute drive to get there in the morning. But with sunrise around 7; there is nothing better than heading out on our bike ride as the sun is coming up. Especially heading east, you will have a good view of it!

I got my packet in the mail today, so it got a lot more real today. Looking forward to the event. Look for me at the lawn festival; I will be the one with an Orange Clemson Chair. It should stick out like a sore thumb (unless we lose to Maryland this weekend in football; then I will be sitting on the ground I guess)

J.Lockdown
09-24-08, 03:26 PM
Well it all depends on how the drive goes cause im a lot farther away being around 2 hours away. If I can bring my truck (not sure if I am bring the truck or car) I will bring my training and do a little warm up then but ill probably be their at 7. I am hoping to get it done in around 5 to 6 hours which seems pretty reasonable.

I am still waiting for my packet, but I hope it comes soon ha. And Maryland should win this weekend so you might want to bring a char to sit in instead of the grass ha.

WJ13US
09-25-08, 07:24 AM
I'll be there I don't remember what number I am. It will be my 3rd.

I was thinking maybe if someone who plans on finishing fast (early) had some sort of small sign to plant in the grass at the lawn party that says Bikeforums.com. Like those political signs you see on lawns it could be some sort of gathering place.

Bill

J.Lockdown
09-25-08, 09:08 AM
I'll be there I don't remember what number I am. It will be my 3rd.

I was thinking maybe if someone who plans on finishing fast (early) had some sort of small sign to plant in the grass at the lawn party that says Bikeforums.com. Like those political signs you see on lawns it could be some sort of gathering place.

Bill

That would be a good idea, but I dough I will be the fastest one out their.

G-Whacker
09-25-08, 01:41 PM
I'll plant a "BFD" sign.
(bike forums destination :p)

Porter20
09-25-08, 08:57 PM
The BFD sign is a great idea! I looking forward to putting some faces with names.

I still have decided how I am riding this thing yet. I have a friend who is thinking about coming & she has never ridden 100 miles; so if she does, then we will probably just take our time & cruise. If she doesn't, then I may try to hammer it. Of course depends if I find some fast friends I guess.

Look forward to meeting all of you; I hope the weather forecast holds up.

J.Lockdown
09-25-08, 09:13 PM
I am kinda worried for how fast im am going to hammer this thing out now. The last couple days of training have been horrible for some reason. Could be very little sleep and weird eating habits but it has just been a little concerning towards the pace. I plan to do a 55 mile ride on Sunday since I wont really have time to ride tomorrow or Saturday. Figure that should give me a good idea were things stand but its just been concerning.

We will have to see what happens.

G-Whacker
09-26-08, 07:10 AM
I am kinda worried for how fast im am going to hammer this thing out now. The last couple days of training have been horrible for some reason. Could be very little sleep and weird eating habits but it has just been a little concerning towards the pace. I plan to do a 55 mile ride on Sunday since I wont really have time to ride tomorrow or Saturday. Figure that should give me a good idea were things stand but its just been concerning.

We will have to see what happens.

Don't worry so much! This ride is more party than sport. I've seen people napping at the Assateague rest stop, dipping their feet into the Pocomoke river at the Milburn rest stop, there's cake and ice cream and a band at the Adkins Mill rest stop. You can get into a 60 person paceline and never see the front. If you get dropped, you can pedal light until the next group comes along (in no time). If you finish in 4 hours or 9, there are people cheering you at the finish. Then you go to the beer truck!

So just enjoy the day and leave the hammer for another ride!

maxine
09-26-08, 08:41 AM
The "BFD" sign idea is hilarious!

I'm #355 and will be on an Airborne Carpe Diem, sporting a rear rack geekily wrapped in reflector tape, topped by a small trunk bag. I always like to start as close to 7:00 as possible, primarily because I am soooo sloooooow. :)

I have thrown caution to the wind and have uncharacteristically decided to be optimistic that the lovely weather forecast will remain accurate -- so I reserved a campsite on Assateague State Park for Friday and Saturday nights. (That could be dangerous, though -- if the ride turns into yet another wind/rain fest, the temptation to bail out at the 62 mile Assateague rest stop will be pretty strong!)

J.Lockdown
09-26-08, 09:20 AM
Don't worry so much! This ride is more party than sport. I've seen people napping at the Assateague rest stop, dipping their feet into the Pocomoke river at the Milburn rest stop, there's cake and ice cream and a band at the Adkins Mill rest stop. You can get into a 60 person paceline and never see the front. If you get dropped, you can pedal light until the next group comes along (in no time). If you finish in 4 hours or 9, there are people cheering you at the finish. Then you go to the beer truck!

So just enjoy the day and leave the hammer for another ride!

That is true, just need to enjoy myself and go with it. That helps to hear that also, kinda calms the nerves.

barndoor
09-28-08, 08:34 AM
#947

I don't know if I agree about this ride being "easy" ..... I mean, on a "regular" century you usually have a good amount of hills....so you climb and then have a coast down ..... but on the Seagull, you never really get a break except for the rest stop , should you choose to use them.

I love this ride....the pacelines are cool....you just have to hook up with the right ones.

Looks like good weather, too!

hrt4me
09-28-08, 06:14 PM
What is the parking situation like at the start?

Porter20
09-28-08, 08:11 PM
#947

I don't know if I agree about this ride being "easy" ..... I mean, on a "regular" century you usually have a good amount of hills....so you climb and then have a coast down ..... but on the Seagull, you never really get a break except for the rest stop , should you choose to use them.

I love this ride....the pacelines are cool....you just have to hook up with the right ones.

Looks like good weather, too!

Well, no century is technically easy. I mean you are in the saddle for 4 to 12 hours & you do have to pedal your bike, hydrate, make sure you are replacing calories, etc. You still have complete the entire ride & that is huge accomplishment within itself. And yes, in this ride with hardly any elevation change, you do spend a lot of time on the pedals.

However, elevation change, even if you coast down hill (which you shouldn't) is much more taxing on the muscles and puts a lot more strain on them then just spinning. A ride like the SeaGull Century, you spend a lot of time spinning, but without the hills, you should be able to keep your RPM's at around a steady 90-95 & it's easier to keep you pace constant, which is much easier on your lungs & legs.

If this was my first ride or my 100th, the great thing about century's whether uphill, downhill, completely flat or some combination of all three; each one is unique and memorable. There will be some awesome memories of this ride & just like there will be some challenges too. In the end, I will be just as proud completing an "easy" 100 miles as I am completing other 100 mile rides, that somepeople may say are harder.

maxine
09-29-08, 12:38 PM
even if you coast down hill (which you shouldn't)

Rules, rules, so many rules! :D I *live* to coast down hills. j/k, like they say, whatever spins your cranks.

Re: flat rides being easier on the legs and lungs -- very true. What they are *not* easier on is your, um, sit area. I find that on the Sea Gull, I need to remember to stand up and pedal out of the saddle for a minute or two about once every half hour or so.

Re: the parking situation -- it can be chaotic, but IIRC, they usually have people directing cars. You can end up kind of far away, though. The earlier you can get there, the better.

J.Lockdown
09-29-08, 06:56 PM
Rules, rules, so many rules! :D I *live* to coast down hills. j/k, like they say, whatever spins your cranks.

Re: flat rides being easier on the legs and lungs -- very true. What they are *not* easier on is your, um, sit area. I find that on the Sea Gull, I need to remember to stand up and pedal out of the saddle for a minute or two about once every half hour or so.

Re: the parking situation -- it can be chaotic, but IIRC, they usually have people directing cars. You can end up kind of far away, though. The earlier you can get there, the better.

Well if your far your in luck cause you got a bike to get you to the starting line ha. Plus it will be a good little warm up :) .

Did a ride today for about 21 miles and I am feeling a lot more confident. Had a good head wind on rolling route and got 19mph average so thats decent for the conditions.

So light ride tomorrow, off the next day, soccer Thursday night, and then nothing till Saturday morning.

The Human Car
09-30-08, 09:31 AM
For those of you who have not ridden a pacelane you can find some good information here: http://www.blueridgebicycleclub.org/bikingsafety.pdf

G-Whacker
10-01-08, 07:10 AM
The October fog has started right on time here on the lower shore.
It looks like this year will be a slightly colder version of last year (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=5412553&postcount=44).
Be prepared for helmet numbers littered o'er the land!

can.not.wait!