Living Car Free - The Yellow School bus - Unaffordable

This is the fourth story I read on this subject and we're going to see more of this in the near future. Even though gas prices have dropped, diesel prices are still over $4.00 a gallon and not falling! The whole notion of busing students to school, daycare and after school activities is going to crumble in the next twenty five years. I can see entire school districts dropping their bus programs and basically forcing parents to drive their kids to school or after school programs.

When you think about it, the yellow school bus enabled kids in the burbs to attend school without having to walk miles along roads with no sidewalks. It's all coming to an end because many schools districts don't have the money to continue funding costly motorized transport. Electric hybrid buses will not pay for themselves because they cost twice the price of a new bus or about 200K.

It looks like families are going to have to rethink where they want to live or the women will just have to stay home and play chauffeur for their kids. Since most families can't afford this luxury, we'll see more migration to towns and cities that have adequate public transportation. Schools that are close and within walking distance will be in high demand.

The school bus concept came about during the 1950's when the government thought they could save more money by building larger schools and closing down the many of the smaller ones. The idea worked because a motorbus was able to retrieve the students who lived miles away. Unfortunately, this whole concept is about to crumble because some of these towns are spending close to 6K just in gas alone for a single bus!

The answer is simple. Towns in the burbs are going to have build more schools that are within walking distance. I know it means more taxes but that's life. There are no cheap solutions anymore when it comes to motorized transport.

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If you read the bottom of the page, comments made by some of the readers are insane. They think the school bus crisis would never have happened if the women just "Kept their legs crossed" and not have children in the first place. Unbelievable.


http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/Local/newEAST01090308.htm

There's very clearly a trend toward having denser neighborhoods, whicn should allow for more walkable schools. In my state (Michigan), developers and home owners get special tax breaks if they are in a neighborhood that's trying to increase population density. I see this as a big step forward for development that's conducive to carfree/carlight living.

Walkable schools are probably a lot better for the kids. They tend to be smaller, more personal, and encourage parental involvement.

When I was a kid (1960s) we walked to elementary and middle school. High school students who lived outside walking range took the regular city bus. The only time I ever went in a school bus was on field trips. Of course this was in an inner city area.

I see a lot of dense-neighborhood developments near my parents in Maryland, but the zoning is still not mixed. You can do dense housing all you want, but people will still have to depend on cars if necessities like schools, groceries, work, day care etc. are all driving distance away.

I think that it is possible for many school districts to scale back on buses anyway. When I was a kid, I used to walk to school. The lucky kids who had bikes used to ride to school. The weenies got rides from their parents and had their parents drop them off two blocks away from school so nobody would see them getting a ride.

Today, buses run to my old neighborhood and pick kids up to bring them to/from the exact same school I used to walk to. Mind you, the kids that ride the bus are the unfortunate ones because most of the kids get dropped off at the school front door by their parents.

Recently, I am seeing more bikes at schools and it seems more kids are walking. It looks like some parents are finally saying "hey, kid, I walked it - so can you". Hopefully, people are starting to cool off from the fear-years where the media had us all convinced that every street corner had a pedophile waiting to snatch un-escorted children and young teens on their way to school.

For students in rural areas that have to travel far distances to go to school, buses are still the most practical approach. Asking parents to bring kids to school in a lot of rural places might mean that some kids will be missing lot of school - and that isn't good for the school budgets either.

I remember walking the first couple years of elementary school. It was a little over 1 mile. In fifth grade I'd been riding the bus for a couple years, but I decided to walk home for old time sake once. I was surprised to find the bus only beat me by a couple minutes. So the fastest way home was to run it and beat the bus.

No one was foolish enough to ride a bike to my school, unless they wanted to lose it in an attempt to get a new one from their parents.

I live in a bassacwards part of the country...they are still building lollypop subdivisions that are miles from any facilities and empty onto narrow 2 lane roads that are carrying 2-3 times the traffic volume they were designed for. The powers that be just built a cluster of 3 schools about 1.5 miles up the road from me. I would guess that 2/3rds of the school population for the elementary school lives within a mile of the school, but there is NO allowance for pedestrian access. They don't even have a crossing guard and there is a subdivision across the street from the school. Sameold, sameold...

Aaron:)

Ok, here's one of my biggest pet peeves: Cities/towns that are building their high schools way out in the middle of nowhere. Traverse City built their new school at least 3 miles from the nearest residential area. There is no city bus line serving the school. Students either drive themselves, or get dropped off. Walking or cycling would be risky because there's no sidewalk and school traffic is heavy. And, in just a few years, sprawl is heading out that way because many people still want to live near the school--even if the school is far from everything else, and they still have to drive the kids.

A school in the downtown area would have been so cool. It would have helped the downtown businesses and saved a lot of time and money for the parents and students. Traverse City, with its low speed traffic and city-plowed sidewalks is excellent for pedestrians and cyclists, and all the city bus lines converge in the downtown area, so students and staff would have that option.

Architects have their heads stuck in the past, and can't seem to come up with high-rise school building designs that would be practical in areas with more expensive real estate. And voters don't see that a slightly higher cost upfront would save time, fuel and money in the long run.

It's funny, but so many people fight increases in the percentage of taxes to help fund schools. The decision makers who allocate the money have to do more with less. Yet, administrators have hugesalaries in districts that can't get half of the kids to graduate. Hell, they can't even keep track of the kids sometimes. My oldest girl insisted on going to public high school. A full year after she transferred from one school to another, I was receiving automated calls from the old school telling me my kid missed certain periods in the school day. This tells me that attendance really isn't a big deal to the schools.

I'm sure we'd all agree that greater up-front expense to plan schools that are walkable saves money in the long run. Problem is, nobody who makes the decisions about money cares about the long run. By then, their shifts will be over, and it will be somebody else's problem. Everybody wants to assign blame, nobody wants to do anything to fix the problems.

I wonder how much weight kids would lose if they got rid of the pop machines in schools and made kids less than 2 miles from school walk or ride their bike.

They do that actually.
Alot of urban districts.

The school bus concept came about during the 1950's when the government thought they could save more money by building larger schools and closing down the many of the smaller ones. The idea worked because a motorbus was able to retrieve the students who lived miles away. Unfortunately, this whole concept is about to crumble because some of these towns are spending close to 6K just in gas alone for a single bus!

The answer is simple. Towns in the burbs are going to have build more schools that are within walking distance. I know it means more taxes but that's life. There are no cheap solutions anymore when it comes to motorized transport.

As a child of the 1950's I get kind of a tickle watching all the "what once was will be again...without
oil" take place. Prior to the 1960's people knew how to "live right" but that changed with the credit
card and rampant consumerism.

Today those who still live right are viewed as fringe nut jobs but they are in fact doing the right
thing. All America needs do now is remind city & school administrators

I think they will be shortening school bus routes, consolidating bus stops and generally just not sending out as many buses. Unless every single one is full.

The problem now is that buses basically pick up and drop kids off in front of their house; the bus is the chauffer, and is far from being like any kind of public transportation. Imagine if every public bus system did this, it would be unaffordable and completely unpractical.

Limit stops to main roads and make kids walk further to the stop. There is a tremendous amount of inefficiency.

The school bus concept came about during the 1950's when the government thought they could save more money by building larger schools and closing down the many of the smaller ones. The idea worked because a motorbus was able to retrieve the students who lived miles away. Unfortunately, this whole concept is about to crumble because some of these towns are spending close to 6K just in gas alone for a single bus!


Wonder if there's been any books written on the historical aspect of the "school bus". When I was a kid I walked to school in grade school.

Unfortunately along with the rest of "normal" suburban americana, most of the populace will still cling to this outdated concept, along with the rest of what most of the country considers "normal" (fast food, 8-lane highways etc etc)

Its hitting our school districts hard down here. The districts are putting a mandated mileage on the distance you have to be from the school to be able to ride. Also, the schools are starting to cram games into Saturdays. This means they aren't having a Freshman football game on Monday night, the Jr Varsity on Tuesday, and the Varisty on Friday. They are having all the games on a Saturday, for schools that are far away. The baseball and softball teams are riding the same buses now, the games are scheduled on the same day, when playing at another school.

I know of one volleyball coach that told her players that as long as the team in in the running for the regionals, she is going to forfeit a few of the games that are an hour away. No since in spending all of that money on gas on a game that doesn't mean anything.

I didn't take any contracts for football officialing due to IHSA not upping the game checks. No since spending $25 in gas to make $45.

Jerry

Limit stops to main roads and make kids walk further to the stop. There is a tremendous amount of inefficiency.

When I was in kindergarten I walked a little over a mile to the school bus stop.

I rode my bike to school in all but the worst weather from fifth grade on up through college.

I rode my bike to school in all but the worst weather from fifth grade on up through college.

What did you do in the worst weather?

....It looks like families are going to have to rethink where they want to live or the women will just have to stay home and play chauffeur for their kids. Since most families can't afford this luxury, we'll see more migration to towns and cities that have adequate public transportation. Schools that are close and within walking distance will be in high demand.....The answer is simple. Towns in the burbs are going to have build more schools that are within walking distance. I know it means more taxes but that's life. There are no cheap solutions anymore when it comes to motorized transport.



Women staying home just to shuttle children around is not part of the solution. If there is no money for the second car, she can't drive. Women are returning home because the lack of living wage jobs. See:

Women Forced Out Of The Workforce Due To The Economy, Not Children

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting/story?id=5424072&page=1 (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting/story?id=5424072&page=1)

Moving to the cities and towns is not a working solution either. Schools might be closer together, but that does not mean they are effective in teaching knowledge or even a safe enviroment. The real solution is home schooling period. Keep children at home and it does not cost any more money for cash strapped families and unworkable old schools. IMO as a former educator in the public schools, it will cost far less and much more effective all around.

Another way of dealing with the loss of the yellow buses is to rethink how many children one should have and can support. Most people really don't think of the social and technological rather expensive changes our society has and will continue to undergo when they decide to bring another person into the world. That means that child raising will never be cheap again.

What did you do in the worst weather?

Sometimes I walked; sometimes I took the (city) bus; sometimes one or another of my parents drove me; and sometimes, when things really got bad, school was cancelled anyway.

Seeing the ignorance that comes out of the woodwork in these news comments really makes me lose hope for our society.

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The school bus hate bothers me.

The number of parents dropping their single child off continues to increase. That might be great for school budgets, but does anyone really think this is the most efficient use of everyone's money?

The more parents drive their kid, the more people line up against buses. It's a cycle that is going to cause big problems in many areas.

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Have we forgotten that many of us live in towns with mandatory busing, in an effort to balance free/reduced lunch students, or to attempt to deal with our inability to build schools fast enough? So we're going to force them to a distant school, then cripple their best way of getting there?

I rode a bus from the 3rd grade until I started driving. In some towns, the bus stopped near my house, and in others I walked a mile to get on a bus in the dark and ride an hour to school and an hour and a half home (I was at the end of a magnet school route). It sucked sometimes, but I did it.

I don't know why, but seeing these people lined up 30+ minutes before school lets out just pisses me off. I was talking with my wife about something similar the other day. In my mind, I would probably drop my daughter off at school via bike when she gets that age. The other day, it hit me that this is the same thing the others are doing (only by bike instead of SUV). Now I have mixed feelings about the whole thing.

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I realize that schools aren't required to provide transportation, but how can you not? We've dug a hole with supersize schools, magnet schools, diversity busing, etc.

Financially, we're spending a WHOLE lot more money fueling personal SUV trips to school than we would be to properly fund the buses and ban car dropoffs.

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Finally, yes, I do realize that the woman in question was losing a special bus program. I'm replying more to the general issues with buses than this one case.

If we skip building one of those new schools, we could fund buses for a long time. I also think the reason schools are being built far away from subdivisions is because the land is cheap. I lived about 2 miles from my grade school, close enough that we couldn't ride the bus. But it was far enough away that biking to school, walking, etc was dangerous the roads were all very crowded with cars. Luckily, my mother was a stay at home mom and she drove us to school and picked us up. I hated it. I wanted to ride the bus with all of my friends.

I lived about 2 miles from my grade school, close enough that we couldn't ride the bus. But it was far enough away that biking to school, walking, etc was dangerous the roads were all very crowded with cars.

And I bet a lot of those cars were driven by people taking their kids to school. Another problem with car drop-offs is that the practice makes it even more dangerous for the few kids who do walk or ride to school.

Apparantly I'm younger than many who have posted, because when I was young most kids were brought to school by their parents. I was, or at least rode with a friend who's mom dropped us off. Most people here actually do live within a mile or two of a school, yet almost none walk or bike, not surprisingly. Quite a few still seem to ride the buses, but far more are dropped off by parents. Of course, around here parents take their kids trick-or-treating around the neighborhood in the family SUV. :twitchy:

What did you do in the worst weather?

Hey one cold morning- this was upstate NY- I walked in the snow and missed the bus. I got so cold waiting I walked back home. Mom freaked and drove me to school where the teachers went nuts running my hands under cold water while I screamed that it hurt. I was such a happy boy when we moved to Hawaii shortly after that incident. I was grinning ear to ear when we got off the plane and these women in grass skirts stripped my winter coat off and told me "You'll never need this here!". I think mom skimped on the winter clothes that year because she knew we'd move after Christmas. Anyway making kids walk in the snow has a downside for the kids if you don't dress them properly.

I was grinning ear to ear when we got off the plane and these women in grass skirts stripped my winter coat off and told me "You'll never need this here!".

I was going to say, "It didn't happen without pictures", but a nice, detailed narrative would be good too. :lol:

Women staying home just to shuttle children around is not part of the solution. If there is no money for the second car, she can't drive. Women are returning home because the lack of living wage jobs.

Moving to the cities and towns is not a working solution either. Schools might be closer together, but that does not mean they are effective in teaching knowledge or even a safe enviroment. The real solution is home schooling period. Keep children at home and it does not cost any more money for cash strapped families and unworkable old schools. IMO as a former educator in the public schools, it will cost far less and much more effective all around.

Another way of dealing with the loss of the yellow buses is to rethink how many children one should have and can support. Most people really don't think of the social and technological rather expensive changes our society has and will continue to undergo when they decide to bring another person into the world. That means that child raising will never be cheap again.

Good post.

If you read many of the comments below the article, you'll notice the women in general, agreed that day care and personal motor transport made working unprofitable. Women have historically made low wages but day care has gone through the roof in recent years. In some places, they want 5-7 hundred dollars a week! It's insane.

With the loss of manufacturing jobs, there's no way you can support kids in daycare and a motorcar on some low paying service job. You'll be lucky to bring in 2-3 hundred a week!

I agree with your assumption that we will see more home schooling. With free school bus service being discontinued, you'll see more parents teaching their kids at home. It amazing how the cost of energy is going to effect the fabric of American life in so many ways. With familes making less money and the whole energy crissis will put us in a deep recession in the very near future.

I still believe if these women were carfree, working and paying for daycare would still be possible. It will require living in a town that has schools within walking distance with good public transportation. The answer for millions is to become carfree.

When you think about it, the recent hike in fuel is breaking the bank for the motorist. The motoring lifestyle is going to require a high paying job because you will not be able to support three kids in daycare, a automobile on a job that pays $10.00 dollars an hour. In fact, if you have more than two kids in daycare, including a car and you're not making over 30K a year, you stay home.

Good points Dahon.Steve and thanks for the article folder fanatic.

I was reading a comparison article in a magazine a while back that was a bit older, but was comparing the issues with today's women vs the women of their mother's generation. Another major issue we have facing women today is the single parent family. This along with lowering wages due to loss of manufacturing jobs is creating a major problem that cannot continue to be swept under the carpet.

Retraining is only part of the equation, when you lose 500 plus jobs in a given area, retraining is only going to work for some of the people. I have seen this first hand, several times over the past 35 years in the area I live in. I have seen many, many plants shuttered with the people offered training and most of the time a fair percentage of the people end up in lower paying jobs, which is a drain on the local tax base and economy.

Aaron:)

Women staying home just to shuttle children around is not part of the solution. If there is no money for the second car, she can't drive. Women are returning home because the lack of living wage jobs.
[Snip]
The real solution is home schooling period. Keep children at home and it does not cost any more money for cash strapped families and unworkable old schools. IMO as a former educator in the public schools, it will cost far less and much more effective all around.

Another way of dealing with the loss of the yellow buses is to rethink how many children one should have and can support. Most people really don't think of the social and technological rather expensive changes our society has and will continue to undergo when they decide to bring another person into the world. That means that child raising will never be cheap again.

Having the qualifications to become a mother does necessarily include the skills to provide an education at home.

Do you really believe that the parent(s) who has more children than she/they can afford to support, and are not thinking of the expensive social and technological changes of our society, are the best qualified to educate her children in the subjects that are currently taught in the schools? News flash- not all stay at home parent(s) are college grads or even high school grads or can even read.

For a significant slice of the population, their "educator" skill set may be no better than their day care skill set and amounts to an ability to turn on a TV and DVD player. You want the future generations taught their basic skills by these kind of educators?

Ok, here's one of my biggest pet peeves: Cities/towns that are building their high schools way out in the middle of nowhere.

Cheaper land, I imagine. Compared to the cost of land, the cost of buses, the cost of drivers, etc., gas is cheap.



Moving to the cities and towns is not a working solution either. Schools might be closer together, but that does not mean they are effective in teaching knowledge or even a safe enviroment. The real solution is home schooling period. Keep children at home and it does not cost any more money for cash strapped families and unworkable old schools. IMO as a former educator in the public schools, it will cost far less and much more effective all around.


It doesn't cost more directly, but there's a huge opportunity cost. Once the children reach kindergarten age, schooling is essentially free (in terms of direct costs), and having the second parent working can make a big difference. Of course, if schools were eliminated entirely, the tax burden would be lower, but that's another issue.

Another way of dealing with the loss of the yellow buses is to rethink how many children one should have and can support. Most people really don't think of the social and technological rather expensive changes our society has and will continue to undergo when they decide to bring another person into the world. That means that child raising will never be cheap again.

Really wanted to quote that - people need to realize that having children involves a big impact on society. Sadly most people see popping out kids as a right and something they "must" do, and then come crying to the government to help "working families". Hey, maybe if you didn't have three kids you wouldn't need tax breaks to put food on the table, huh?

^ The government isn't exactly helping by advocating abstinence-only programs in high schools.

Having the qualifications to become a mother does necessarily include the skills to provide an education at home.

Do you really believe that the parent(s) who has more children than she/they can afford to support, and are not thinking of the expensive social and technological changes of our society, are the best qualified to educate her children in the subjects that are currently taught in the schools? News flash- not all stay at home parent(s) are college grads or even high school grads or can even read.

For a significant slice of the population, their "educator" skill set may be no better than their day care skill set and amounts to an ability to turn on a TV and DVD player. You want the future generations taught their basic skills by these kind of educators?

I am going to tell you a secret about my family that most people in our community don't know. My mother functions at the third grade level and my father dropped out of the ninth grade. The "boob tube" was on 24/7 in our home. My siblings and I attended the worst public schools around. In spite of this, we still went to college (and I to graduate school). My sister is a mechanical engineer with the top tiered aerospace firms in the country. My brother works independently for years. How could this happen? We learned to "home school" ourselves by visiting the public library very regularity, attended free or reduced pay concerts, gravitating toward positive role models and avoiding the "educators" that taught just for the money. With the Internet now (used properly), and the resources available in most school districts, one could be educated at home-even with uneducated parents. Here is an example of a program available for people to use:

http://www.globalstudentnetwork.com/ (http://www.globalstudentnetwork.com/)

And there are plenty more links google and the local school district could offer. All you have to do is ask. Many school districts will even send a teacher to the home or in a more formal meeting area once to several times a week. All it takes is to be as lucky as I have been to have parents pushing us to get our college degrees-even if they can't read or write very well!

P.S. My parents had more children than their finances could support.