"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Women's Racing

I am a new rider (started in July), and I am thinking of doing some races next season. I still have some large improvements to make with my hill climbing, in particular, and I would like my average speed to go up a bit more.

Using the search on the forum, I have seen numerous references to the low speed and lack of aggressive tactics in women's racing. Can you elaborate on this? How do the races play out if there are no attacks? What is a typical average speed for a Cat 4/3?

Thank you.

This question has been asked for Cat 5 men repeatedly, and its difficult to answer because 1) it vaires from race to race, course to course, and region to region. And more importantly, its not about average speed, but the ability to accelerate, recover and repeat.

Answering for Women's lower categories is even tougher due to the often smaller fileds with divergent talent, and probalby even larger regional variation.

But I think the standard advise for new male racer's applies to women as well. Forget about average speed. Follow the plan layed out in Botto's sticky thread, and just get out and give it a go.

Nothing we tell you will truly prepare you, until you do it yourself, and then learn where you stand and what you need to work on.


As long as you have some group riding experience, you definitely should get out and give it a go. If you can find a race this fall, it would be great to do one now, so you will have an idea in the off season what you need to be preparing for.

First - average speed doesn't mean much. I guess in women's racing it could mean more, but it's really not that fast for either.

Make sure you're doing the not-gender-specific training of riding in packs with others (group rides), doing tons of intervals, etc.

I wouldn't expect a ton of blocking or attacks in most of your races. Hopefully you'll get a chance to race just the women's 4's - several races are 1/2/3/4 - before you go in with the higher-level categories.

Good luck!

I see you're near DC. Around here, you will see some aggressive tactics being used by Artemis, because that's the only team with significant presence in a given women's field, particularly in the lower categories. That doesn't mean there are no attacks otherwise. There are lots of attacks. The problem is that these fields tend to chase down every single attack without taking into consideration who is doing the attacking. Even if you think it's dumb to chase, when most of the pack jumps, you have to go too. Then the pace may settle such that you think the ladies up front are having a tea party. Often, they don't want to be there, but they won't let anyone else through who may want to bump the pace up a little. But eh, that's racing I guess.

I didn't find the average speeds in a 4 and 3/4 race to differ much. They tend to be around 20-21mph in both crits and road races. Don't get focused on average speed, though. It's more about dealing with surges in speed, cornering, and handling the terrain.

You should race. We need more racers :)

Hi Karenjack, I see you're in the Wash DC area, fortunately there is a fairly robust women's racing scene in this district (MABRA) headed up primarily by 2 teams: Artemis and HPC. Both have entry level racing squads and are headed up by women who have a passion for the sport. I know Susan Hefler from HPC very well, she's a great person, and the person at Artemis to contact is Evelyn Egizi (not sure on the last name spelling). Google the teams, contact them, and they'll help you get started.

To answer your questions:

-average speed means nothing in racing. erase it from your mind as a metric and never think about it again.

-MABRA is flat to rolling, climbing ability doesnt matter very much

-low speed and lack of aggression is typical of all entry level bike racing, not just to the women.

Good luck and hope you get into the sport.

I wouldn't expect a ton of blocking or attacks in most of your races. Hopefully you'll get a chance to race just the women's 4's - several races are 1/2/3/4 - before you go in with the higher-level categories.

Good luck!

Yeah, she would. MABRA has a women's 3 and 4 series. Some of them are 3/4 (placed separately), but there are a lot of 4 races. There are also some Open fields, but not too many compared to a lot of other regions.

and the person at Artemis to contact is Evelyn Egizi (not sure on the last name spelling).

That is correct.

Speaking of Evelyn, you should join the MABRA women's listserv:
MABRA_Women@yahoogroups.com

This question has been asked for Cat 5 men repeatedly, and its difficult to answer because 1) it vaires from race to race, course to course, and region to region. And more importantly, its not about average speed, but the ability to accelerate, recover and repeat.



Yes.

Thanks for all the replies.

Along the lines of average speed not being important, what is the best way to improve your hill recovery? I am getting better at climbing, but when I get to the top, it takes me a good 30 seconds to a minute to get my speed back up. Is the best way to improve this just doing hills?

Thanks everyone.

I am a new rider (started in July), and I am thinking of doing some races next season. I still have some large improvements to make with my hill climbing, in particular, and I would like my average speed to go up a bit more.

Using the search on the forum, I have seen numerous references to the low speed and lack of aggressive tactics in women's racing. Can you elaborate on this? How do the races play out if there are no attacks? What is a typical average speed for a Cat 4/3?

Thank you.

Welcome to the area.. I just finished (one race left on Sunday) my first season as a CAT 4 women racer.
ALL the comments about average speed are absolutely correct. I went from being spit out the back to place in 3 races this year doing interval drills. Because most of the races are combined; but scored seperately there tends to be crazy attacks.. As previously said; when they go.. you have to go as well.. because the fields are small... 15 - 20 women. I've been in a crit were we hit 27 and slowed to 16 multiple times... Except for a couple of races (jefferson cup is one) mostly flat, crits in the VA area..

Have fun enjoy our race this Sunday has TWO womens races; a 1/2/3 and a combined womens 40+ CAT 4

PM me if you want more info.

Thanks for all the replies.

Along the lines of average speed not being important, what is the best way to improve your hill recovery? I am getting better at climbing, but when I get to the top, it takes me a good 30 seconds to a minute to get my speed back up. Is the best way to improve this just doing hills?

Thanks everyone.

Force yourself to continue. Often times in races there will be a surge at the top, then a few hundred meters down they will relax. Get in the habit of pushing harder when your ready to give in. 10-15 seconds more can make a big difference to your power and ability to hold it. Try to learn to be effecient and recover while riding.

Along the lines of average speed not being important, what is the best way to improve your hill recovery? I am getting better at climbing, but when I get to the top, it takes me a good 30 seconds to a minute to get my speed back up. Is the best way to improve this just doing hills?You'll want to incorporate structured training into your hill workouts. Do the traditional 2x20min aerobic workouts. Also, on a different day add 1-3 minute anaerobic intervals to max-HR. These really help you improve your recovery and trains the muscles to flush out the lactic-acid. You'll get to where 10-15sec is all that's needed to recover.

Race tactics come into play here as well. Depending up on the hill, the high-speeds on the downhill 40-55mph+, makes pedaling futile. So you're better off coasting and drafting anyway. In a race, you'd time it so that you don't blow-up 100% at the top, but rather time it so that you blow up as you sprint down the hill to 40mph, then tuck and coast behind the lead riders. No use being the 1st one and having everyone else draft off you. ;)

As for beginner women's races, I don't see them as being any different than beginning men's races. My girlfriend for 4-years in college was one of the top women racers in the Western conference. Women's races aren't slow if you're in them. But due to the smaller field sizes, the strategies and tactics are very different than the men's races. Small fields tend to stay together and attacks are promptly chased down. It's not possible to sprint from the back of the pack and pass the front with a 10mph+ advantage. And you can't quite do it incognito when the other 10 riders in the pack can see everything you're doing. Much easier to pull stuff like that with 100+ rider packs.

Social interactions between women and men are different. This shows up in women's racing as well. Famous line I heard once from a collegiate W-A/B race, "Uhh... excuse me, but I want to be over there!" as she points to the prime spot 3-5 places behind the leaders. ;)

As for beginner women's races, I don't see them as being any different than beginning men's races. My girlfriend for 4-years in college was one of the top women racers in the Western conference. Women's races aren't slow if you're in them. But due to the smaller field sizes, the strategies and tactics are very different than the men's races. Small fields tend to stay together and attacks are promptly chased down. It's not possible to sprint from the back of the pack and pass the front with a 10mph+ advantage. And you can't quite do it incognito when the other 10 riders in the pack can see everything you're doing. Much easier to pull stuff like that with 100+ rider packs.

They're slow when you can listen to a whole conversation of chit-chat when they roll by :innocent:

If you get to the point where you like racing with hills, just head north to southeastern Pennsylvania -- there are quite a few races around there all year 'round.

Also, doesn't NCVC have a pretty good womens presence, too? I saw tons of then when I was at the spring Church Creek time trial.

There are lots of women who do the CC TTs that are TT specialists or triathletes.

There were 2 women from NCVC who were regulars in the 4s, and I think one of them must be getting near an upgrade. The only other NCVC woman who is a regular racer that I know of is a 2.

In the 4s, HPC sometimes has 3 or 4 (at least one of them will upgrade soon if she hasn't already). Coppi and Bike Rack can sometimes get about that many in a race. But it's not uncommon for 1/2 the 4 field to be Artemis women. They have a large women's racing squad. There are lots of women who are members of clubs around here, but not a lot of women race, and in the lower categories, there isn't much team action going on. Then you also have to consider that when there are only a few people in the lower cats, how easy is it for them to race together--are they of the same racing level to really help each other out given all of those small field characteristics that Danno mentioned?

It is always possible to make friends on other teams :). Sometimes, that's all you've got when there are a bunch of de facto solo racers in a field against one or two large teams.

The other thing I noticed is that women tend to hold grudges FOREVER! Finding truly helpful teammates I think is more difficult for women, and not just because of the lower numbers. There seems to be a lot of cat-fighting and caddiness.

For example, on the UCSB team, there were usually 10-12 women racers on the team and about 6-8 show up at any given race. They all didn't really know each other that well beforehand. My GF had come from a triathlon and track-running background, so she was very strong coming in. She narrowly missed winning the pre-season category-sorting TT by just 2-seconds. Anyway they started her off in B's because she had no pack-racing experience.

She didn't finish her 1st couple races because she went 100% from the start and tried to TT the entire race. With more strategy and tactical training later, she started finishing races and won her 1st race 1/2-way through the season. Then we figured we'd get more team-points if everyone finished in the top as well. So we assigned the next-strongest girl to get led-out by my GF to win the next race. Things go pretty well and it's 5-laps to go. I see that the designated girl chatting at the back of the pack with some of the competition and I yell at her to get on my GF's wheel for the leadout. She tries to move up, but the pace was already starting to get fast. By 3-laps to go people were jockeying just to maintain position and you couldn't move up very much without blowing-up. My GF was 3-5th the final couple of laps and won the sprint pretty easily.

So what happens afterwards? Oh my gosh, it was like a scene out of "RoadRules" or some of those newer reality shows. More drama and energy spewed after the race than was expended during the race! "Why didn't you drop back and help me?", "Where were you the entire race? Couldn't you see me ahead of you?", "Well, I'm not as fast as you, I need more help!" "yadaydayda, blah, blah blah". And the girl never talked to my GF again.

I wouldn't think much of it if it was just a single case of a spoiled-brat. But EVERY SINGLE girl had some sort of deep-drama issue with EVERY OTHER GIRL on the team!!! What the $#*!@$?? It was like being a peeping-tom inside a sorority! It was so bad, they actually disbanded the women's team for a couple of years because no one was interested in racing if "she" was going to be there... (not my GF, but there was always some "other" girl that got in the way)... blah, blah, blah. :(

The other thing I noticed is that women tend to hold grudges FOREVER! Finding truly helpful teammates I think is more difficult for women, and not just because of the lower numbers. There seems to be a lot of cat-fighting and caddiness.

For example, on the UCSB team, there were usually 10-12 women racers on the team and about 6-8 show up at any given race. They all didn't really know each other that well beforehand. My GF had come from a triathlon and track-running background, so she was very strong coming in. She narrowly missed winning the pre-season category-sorting TT by just 2-seconds. Anyway they started her off in B's because she had no pack-racing experience.

She didn't finish her 1st couple races because she went 100% from the start and tried to TT the entire race. With more strategy and tactical training later, she started finishing races and won her 1st race 1/2-way through the season. Then we figured we'd get more team-points if everyone finished in the top as well. So we assigned the next-strongest girl to get led-out by my GF to win the next race. Things go pretty well and it's 5-laps to go. I see that the designated girl chatting at the back of the pack with some of the competition and I yell at her to get on my GF's wheel for the leadout. She tries to move up, but the pace was already starting to get fast. By 3-laps to go people were jockeying just to maintain position and you couldn't move up very much without blowing-up. My GF was 3-5th the final couple of laps and won the sprint pretty easily.

So what happens afterwards? Oh my gosh, it was like a scene out of "RoadRules" or some of those newer reality shows. More drama and energy spewed after the race than was expended during the race! "Why didn't you drop back and help me?", "Where were you the entire race? Couldn't you see me ahead of you?", "Well, I'm not as fast as you, I need more help!" "yadaydayda, blah, blah blah". And the girl never talked to my GF again.

I wouldn't think much of it if it was just a single case of a spoiled-brat. But EVERY SINGLE girl had some sort of deep-drama issue with EVERY OTHER GIRL on the team!!! What the $#*!@$?? It was like being a peeping-tom inside a sorority! It was so bad, they actually disbanded the women's team for a couple of years because no one was interested in racing if "she" was going to be there... (not my GF, but there was always some "other" girl that got in the way)... blah, blah, blah. :(


I've been told same thing, just a different team and part of the country.

They're slow when you can listen to a whole conversation of chit-chat when they roll by :innocent:

They did that for a good portion of the USPRO Women's crit at Downers Grove a few weeks back.

I was riding my rollers between turns 1 and 2 and I heard several conversations going on, each lap, many laps in a row. Even when a break was up the road, it would still be going on. They were never stretched out any thinner than 3 across.

The sad thing is that most break attempts lasted a lap or two at most, and were reeled in because the break fell apart, not because of a team getting to the front and bringing them back with a concerted team effort.

The women's races I have observed through passing them or being passed by them (sometimes both in the same race as the different fields go fast in different places on the course) or being a moto official for them, have been pretty agressive. Perhaps it's because I only do the hillier road races.

I have heard complaints from woman racer friends that women's racing can be negative, but so can men's racing, especially in the lower cats and in flatter races where it's normal to chase down any move and end up with a field sprint.

I think that the OP should go do some races and see what it's like for herself.

Route 1 Velo runs a pretty civilized crit series - Men's 5 and Women 4's run together.

Generally, although average speed is (as noted above) not that useful a metric, I think if you could hold 21-22 mph solo for 45 minutes, you'd be able to hang with the pack.

Last time I was there I got dropped off the back pretty quickly. I'm a little stronger now, so will try again next spring.

http://www.route1velo.com/GreenbeltInfo.asp

...what is the best way to improve your hill recovery? I am getting better at climbing, but when I get to the top, it takes me a good 30 seconds to a minute to get my speed back up.

I notice that a lot of riders simply spin faster at the top of hills. Since your legs help pump blood (so the theory goes), spinning faster will cause your heart rate to go up. Since you're already at your threshold on a climb, any bump in heart rate will cause you to blow up. I've noticed this with a powermeter with heartrate - my heartrate goes up, power down, and I'm dying, but I'm actually going easier than I was during the climb.

Since cadence and heart rate are somewhat related, you can use this knowledge to increase speed without increasing heart rate. Just shift up as you notice your cadence dropping. As the hill levels out you may end up shifting 4 or 5 times in 100-150 meters. Maintain the effort level and the cadence and your body won't know the bike is suddenly level. Your body will just keep plugging away at threshold.

The disadvantage is that you'll be pedaling slowly, at your threshold. This means it'll be hard to make radical accelerations necessary to, say, counter an attack, or launch one yourself.

I use some of the factors to decide what to do:
Shift up into higher gears - no attacks expected, feeling horrible, more hills coming, leading a large group of riders so need to keep things steady (unlikely for me), doing big gear workout, etc.

Spin faster at the top - attacks expected but not to last too long (30 seconds or less, esp if at the top of a downhill), feeling really good and therefore not already at threshold, big descent coming (i.e. easy terrain), already in 39x12 or so (so don't want to shift into big ring), want to spin more, etc.

Hope this helps,
cdr

I've done a number races with less than 20 riders.
These are brutally aggressive everytime.

Women's races are mostly run off with very small fields, yet quite often end up being very negative.
The difference? Attitude.

Men typically would rather go down in flames, than sit around hoping for a spot in a sprint.
Women typically grew up less aggressive and prefer hanging with the pack, over taking a chance.

Doesn't make anybody right or wrong, just different ways of looking at the world.

My wife was an avg cat4 for a while and I can tell you, even she would get irritated at the lack of action sometimes. Especially when all the the womens categories raced together.

I've done a number races with less than 20 riders.
These are brutally aggressive everytime.

Women's races are mostly run off with very small fields, yet quite often end up being very negative.
The difference? Attitude.

Men typically would rather go down in flames, than sit around hoping for a spot in a sprint.
Women typically grew up less aggressive and prefer hanging with the pack, over taking a chance.

Those are the hardest races I do. When I enter a race like that, I attack within the first lap or two. I'd rather be in a semi-controlled environment like a break than dealing with the splintering field. Because the field WILL splinter in a small race.

And no body wants to say "Yeah, I got popped in a 20 man race." People know they're hard, but it's still embarrassing.

I am a new rider (started in July), and I am thinking of doing some races next season. I still have some large improvements to make with my hill climbing, in particular, and I would like my average speed to go up a bit more.

Using the search on the forum, I have seen numerous references to the low speed and lack of aggressive tactics in women's racing. Can you elaborate on this? How do the races play out if there are no attacks? What is a typical average speed for a Cat 4/3?

Thank you.



IF you are still researching... here is the link to the Virginia Cycling Association

http://www.vacycling.org/index.html

there is a list of teams and other links....

There are several teams that have women's teams... usually a couple women in each category..

Jefferson Cup is held in March.. it is a circuit with a couple of small hills... usually TWO women's fields...
come out and race... I've had a blast this year...

One of the most exciting races I've ever seen (including pro) was a women's 1/2/3 crit. Tactics, speed, aggression...it was awesome. BTW, this thread has bordered on helpful and, dare I say, insightful. Seems he11 has dropped a degree or two.