Commuting - exhaust fumes vs cigarette smoke

Does anyone know if there's any kind of equivalency between the two as far as lung damage is concerned? I mean like, could say a dozen lungfuls of diesel exhaust equal one cigarette's worth of damage? have any studies ever been done on this sort of thing? Which is more harmful to the lungs?







(I would just like to take this opportunity to state that I f'n H.A.T.E. diesel engines. I don't know WHERE people come up with bs about how they're now cleaner running and more efficient; they evidently haven't spent much time behind one up a hill.)

In Atlanta, we are using buses powered by natural gas (CNG) and also older diesels. The CNG buses also have the exhaust pipe on the top of the bus, pointing up.

Your point about cigarette smoke and air pollution is exactly why I watch smog levels during the summer. If there is going to be a high level smog alert, I might avoid cycling at all, which is the greatest irony of all.

Can I add one point to this (and I think that you guys were touching on this)? I get a little tired of people acting so self-righteous about cigarette smoke invading their lives, when these same people live miles and miles out in the suburbs and drive into oblivion every week. To me, their driving habits are much more polluting and dangerous than anyone's smoking habit will ever be.

I'm not a smoker, and I don't particularly care for smoke, but let's get real here. Driving is much more of a public health danger.

I read a study a couple of years ago that said diesel pollution was a serious cancer risk. Apparently the particulates if inhaled stick in your lungs for a long time and can cause cells around them to mutate.

Side note: when in lived in Calgary AB there was this one bike messager I always saw who wore a gas mask, not being a cyclist at the time I thought he was a nut... now I'd consider getting one if I lived in a smoggy area. Fortunately here in the prairies air pollution isn't a major problem (not enough people, plenty of smoky cars), so I just hold my breath whenever around a smoker.

I get a little tired of people acting so self-righteous about cigarette smoke invading their lives, when these same people live miles and miles out in the suburbs and drive into oblivion every week. To me, their driving habits are much more polluting and dangerous than anyone's smoking habit will ever be.


When I realize that some people are banned from smoking even outdoors, I sometimes wonder how deeply people bother to think about the issue.

I actually smoke, but when im riding, i really don't like smelling it or breathing it. I really think that smelling diesel and road dust could be more harmful if you don't smoke, due to the fact that if you are behind a car or truck, you get way more crap going in.

this is a topic of interest to me too...

in Portland a few years ago someone did a study and found that the air in inner NW Portland (where i lived and worked) was relatively polluted. this was not measured in a line of car exhaust, but rather just the "regular" air...

from what i understant it is as KrisA states: the danger is with the particles sticking in or damaging lung tissues --- i think the bigger the particles you inhale the worse.

In many heavily polluted cities like Bangkok, the moped riders all wear paper masks...

i'm not informed enough to know if these block small enough particles to really reduce the health risk much, but they do make it more tolerable...

air pollution in the US was greatly reduced from about 1970 to 1990 through clean air act --- regulations on industry emmisions (particualrly reduced acid rain) and autos (catalytic converters, unleaded gas, etc) -- but since some time in the mid-90's pollution has either stopped falling or even increased in most of the US --- due to 1) more vehicles miles driver and 2) the end of increased regulations and in many cases relaxation (Bush)

Another reason for increased air pollution, is that SUVs and minivans count a trucks as far as emission regulations are concerned. These now make up a large proportion of the vehicles people buy now.

Side note: when in lived in Calgary AB there was this one bike messager I always saw who wore a gas mask, not being a cyclist at the time I thought he was a nut... now I'd consider getting one if I lived in a smoggy area. Fortunately here in the prairies air pollution isn't a major problem (not enough people, plenty of smoky cars), so I just hold my breath whenever around a smoker.

Fortunately, we don't have a smog problem here in central Ohio. We just let the wind carry our dirty air to the Northeast. Maybe other people should try our solution. ;)

On a serious note, one reason why I like the bike path is that I stay away from the fumes.

I would say biking behind a Diesel bus with the exhaust pipe located on the lower rear rather than on top or a poorly running gas car hurts more and slows me down more than choking a smoke before a ride. I can feel my lungs constricting just thinking about it.

I would say smoking is much more damaging to a person than inhaling exhaust.
The benefits of cycling must outweigh the inhaling exhaust problems somewhat. But smoking directly pumps your lungs full of junk.

anecdote:



A couple of days ago I was at a traffic light on a 3 lane street with 2 cars in front and about three cars on either side of me and some more behind. One of the cars was old and it's exhaust stunk, but I didn't have an urge to cover my nose or anything like that.

About a 1/2hr later I'm walking on the sidewalk about 4ft from someone who just exhaled. I greeted him and he turned to me and said hello. It took every once of strength I had not cough and gag in this mans face. It was a horrible suffocating feeling. YUCK!

I would say smoking is much more damaging to a person than inhaling exhaust.
The benefits of cycling must outweigh the inhaling exhaust problems somewhat. But smoking directly pumps your lungs full of junk.

In general you are 100% correct, I just hate the few time I am pumping along 6 feet from that black smoke belching pipe.

i like riding early in the AM and take every antioxidant known to man.

Hi,
per puff, diesel is much worse than ciggies. Diesel exhaust is nasty, nasty stuff. I have more experience with it than I care to remember. Btw, they just found a new way diesel screws you up......the exhaust contains carbon nanotubes. I don't know what they are, or even why they're bad. But the article said they were.
I am also a BIG fan on antioxidants. Now that I am middle aged, everyone around me is growing gray, looking infirm. I think I am healthier, in part, because I have a well thought out antioxidant regime.

Hi Swoop! I don't have any hard medical data to offer... only my sympathy. I'm right with you where a hatred of diesel engines is concerned! And I will tell you that, as one who has spent the past few years cycling across central Tokyo and back, the Japanese regulations re: engine emissions are either poorly enforced or downright slack! I routinely find myself behind vehicles that would be pulled over in the States and promptly issued a citation requiring the driver to get the emissions situation sorted out, and verified at an emissions testing station. I'm not saying that there aren't poorly maintained engines running on the roads and streets of the U.S., but the situation here drives me nuts. Don't think that will make you feel any better but.... cough on!

Here Here! I finally found a way off the main roads without hurting my average spped too much. The smoke from crappy trucks here is a joke. Anyone who thinks the japs make good engines wants to take a look at these!

While we're on the topic, does anyone have a link for any of the multitude of studies indicating that air pollution is generally 2-18 times worse inside the car than out? I've noticed on the (rare) occasions that I use public transport, the air quality inside the bus is much worse than what I breathe if I get stuck behind the bastard in traffic on my ride to/from work.

I get a little tired of people acting so self-righteous about cigarette smoke invading their lives, when these same people live miles and miles out in the suburbs and drive into oblivion every week. To me, their driving habits are much more polluting and dangerous than anyone's smoking habit will ever be.

ABsolutely, man, absofreakenlutely. It's a sad irony, and one that needs to be brought home ASAP to all involved (which is... well, everyone...).

I was bored earlier so I had a look around for some info... as is so often the case in such matters, ignorance IS bliss. :( :mad:

From here (http://www.lungusa.org/air/airout00_diesel.html):


Diesel exhaust is a mixture containing over 450 different components, including vapors and fine particles. Over 40 chemicals in diesel exhaust are considered toxic air contaminants by the State of California. Exposure to this mixture may result in cancer, exacerbation of asthma, and other health problems.

...

The health risk from diesel exposure is greatest for children, the elderly, people who have respiratory problems or who smoke, people who regularly strenuously exercise in diesel-polluted areas, and people who work or live near diesel exhaust sources.


From here (http://www.afscme.org/health/faq-dies.htm).


The soot consists of very small particles that can be inhaled and deposited in the lungs. Diesel exhaust contains 20-100 times more particles than gasoline exhaust. These particles carry cancer-causing substances known as polynuclear aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs). Gases in diesel exhaust, such as nitrous oxide, nitrogen dioxide, formaldehyde, benzene, sulfur dioxide, hydrogen sulfide, carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide can also create health problems.


For a more complete list of the constituents of diesel exhaust, see here (http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Diesel-Exhaust-Toxicants.htm)

Also, Double Standard: Diesel Exhaust vs. Secondhand Smoke (http://www.junkscience.com/news/diesel.htm).


It's all enough to make you go out and buy a gas mask (and key every diesel on the way)...

Sure, diesel exhaust is worse...but fuel economy is better...much, much better if properly implimented.

I agree with everyone who says they hate diesel exhaust! The ONLY reason diesel emissions aren't more heavily regulated is because, when emissions controls for cars (catalytic converters, etc.) were mandated in the 70's, the trucking industry and motor carrier lobbyists got diesel engines exempted, citing industry studies 'showing' that diesel exhaust was 'safe' (just like the tobacco industry studies that 'showed' tobacco products were 'safe'...).

If there's one thing I hate most about bicycling, it's riding behind a diesel vehicle. Most of the worst-polluting older diesel GM busses with street-level exhaust pipes have been retired in Portland. The newer diesel busses have their tail pipes located on top of the bus rather than in the breathing zone, and appear to burn cleaner, but they can still get pretty smoky if they aren't kept tuned up. What really bothers me are the dozens of commercial diesel delivery trucks and giant (and mostly unnecessary) full-sized Ford F-350 and Dodge Ram diesel pickups with street-level exhaust pipes driving around the city.

I don't know how cyclists manage in European cities, where many of the private cars also burn diesel.

ABsolutely, man, absofreakenlutely. It's a sad irony, and one that needs to be brought home ASAP to all involved (which is... well, everyone...).


Hmmmm... I think you took that a little out of text.

I've noticed on the (rare) occasions that I use public transport, the air quality inside the bus is much worse than what I breathe if I get stuck behind the bastard in traffic on my ride to/from work.

That's not due to exhaust dude. That's more to do with a combination of a) Queensland summer and b) lot's of human bodies in an enclosed space every one of which has two armpits. You almost wish someone would light up to take the edge off the stench.

;)

That's not due to exhaust dude. That's more to do with a combination of a) Queensland summer and b) lot's of human bodies in an enclosed space every one of which has two armpits. You almost wish someone would light up to take the edge off the stench.

I've never used it in summer -- apart from the trains -- and even then I make sure their air-conditioned. Not even I'm that stupid!

Nathank & Randya: Whatever happened to all those articulated diesel buses Portland bought from Hungary back in the eighties? They smoked & stank, got poorer mileage than predicted, came with flammable brakes, had heaters that ran full on year round & windows that wouldn't open in the Summer. Here in Washington State, the requirement for a mandatory vehicle testing program is triggered by exceeding a certain air pollution threshold. Where do you suppose we managed to locate our local air sample monitoring device? On a platform in the middle of Capitol Lake! Don

Whatever happened to all those articulated diesel buses Portland bought from Hungary back in the eighties?

You're right, those articulated busses didn't work very well and they didn't last very long in Portland. I haven't seen one for at least seven or eight years now. Portland happens to measure air quality in a very central downtown location, at SW 4th and Alder, and the Portland Metro area has a fairly stringent emissions testing program.

Interesting footnote: Once upon a time, the state DEQ (the equivalent of Ecology in Washington), was claiming that bicycles actually made air quality worse, because they 'created' congestion...funny, but I thought cars and trucks caused congestion and gridlock, which I can then just slip right through on my bicycle....

Hmmmm... I think you took that a little out of text.

huh? :?

I found this interesting: http://www.forces.org/evidence/files/aircare.htm

The health benefits of exercise are such that even smokers who exercise are less likely to get cancer than thiose who don't. So there's that.

I've been in the Salt Lake Valley for the past 5 years, and this area has some pretty wicked Winter inversions (http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9300491), with ridiculously bad air quality. I've also been curious about the effects of commuting in these conditions, and have considered a mask of some sort.

This somewhat informal (of questionable accuracy) study (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/12481.php) measured 10 times more particulate in the air from cigarettes (secondhand, not filtered) than from a turbodiesel car. What it doesen't clarify is the nature of the particulate (size/carcinogenic risk) or the chemical composition/density.

You do realize that you responded to a thread that is 7+ years old ....

You do realize that you responded to a thread that is 7+ years old ....

And its lungs are still pink! :lol:

Given that previous research shows that car occupants get a big dose of the pollution from driving in a "tunnel of exhaust" that takes time to dissipate, I hypothesize that if every car switched their exhaust pipe to their left side instead of their right, cyclists and pedestrians on major streets would enjoy significantly cleaner air.

Why are car exhaust pipes so often on the right side anyway? I hate it the most when there is a traffic jam and a bunch of vans with side exhausts are blowing smoke directly into the bike lane.