Living Car Free - Any Car-Free People who don't believe global warming is man caused?

Just listening to the interview with "side-step" Palin and I got to wondering: is there anyone in here who is car free that also doesn't believe either in global warming or that it's caused by human activity/intervention?

I am car free and I know for a fact that the worlds atmosphere and climate are cyclical. I am not saying our polution is not causing damage, but I think what humans don't realize is that the world will be A-OK. We will just die off. Anyways, we are right on that ledge of the 70k year of the cycle. It's too bad that some of these people won't be alive in 40k years when the world is frozen or at least quite cold again to recognize that it's only global warming for a little bit. Be prepared starting in about 11 years for global cooling. :)

I'm sure there are. And there are probably carfree people who believe the world is flat and the governor of Alaska is qualified to lead the free world. So what?

I'm sure there are. And there are probably carfree people who believe the world is flat and the governor of Alaska is qualified to lead the free world. So what?

So lets make fun of them?

I find it hard to believe that there are actual logical, intelligent, sensible people out there that could believe that we can take the natural order of geology, essentially turning the crust of the earth inside out in a sense, releasing all of those things into the air and the water, and not expect it to make a difference in the climate.
The sad part is that here in the US, and in most of Europe, everything will be fine. We have the economic power to protect ourselves from what negative effects of global warming occur. The people who will really suffer though are the people who had nothing to do with causing it in the first place. So much of the world's population lives within three or four feet of sea level, and when they or their croplands get flooded out, they will have to go somewhere.

So lets make fun of them?

No. They are more to be pitied than ridiculed.

I'm one.

2008 the coolest year in the past 5 years.

If it takes "global warming" to get people to change their behavior about energy then they just have not been paying attention.

I'm one.

2008 the coolest year in the past 5 years.



yea... right

I'm car lite, and I contribute a very large percentage of global warming to natural cycles. I'm sure human bone-headedness has had some effect on the tempurature, but seriously doubt it's to the extent a lot of people claim.

TABOR -

Try google.

2008 coolest year

Its true. Not something I made up.

Try not sounding so misinformed.

Try not sounding so misinformed.

Did you look at the graphs I posted? It doesn't matter if 2008 is cool. What matters is the trend.

I can't imagine that our behavior is the only cause, but I'm sure we're not helping. Regardless, what we have done to our own planet is deplorable, and I think we should be doing everything we can to change our bad habits, global warming or not.

Did you look at the graphs I posted? It doesn't matter if 2008 is cool. What matters is the trend.


Yes, I did look at the graphs.

I'm glad you think it does not matter. Please keep your sources loyal to your beliefs and your mind closed. Life is easier that way.

I don't "believe" in global warming, i "believe" in global climate change.

Just listening to the interview with "side-step" Palin and I got to wondering: is there anyone in here who is car free that also doesn't believe either in global warming or that it's caused by human activity/intervention?

I'm not car free at the moment, but I've been car-free or car-lite most of my life ... and I don't believe in global warming. Weather is cyclic. It gets hot, it gets cold, then it gets hot again. Just like the temperature change during a 24 hour span, just like the changing of the seasons through the course of the year, so is the big weather picture.


EDIT: I just wanted to add that being car-free or car-lite was never an environmental choice for me. It was a financial and/or hassle-level choice.

Car-free. What I "believe" is irrelevant to the climate.

All that matters is... How can others, in a position of power, use your belief/concern, to manipulate your actions/pocketbook, to their benefit?

For example: When your "concern" causes you to demand your "leaders", to...let's say, institute a "Carbon Tax" on hydrocarbon fuels, that everyone uses to get around, make stuff, and stay warm...."they" will be more than happy to do this "for you". You, of course, are now feeling all snuggle bunny warm and fuzzy, knowing that your efforts to bring on this tax, has "Saved the Planet".

Meanwhile... me, and a few others that know how to profit off of this kind idiocy, will be enjoying even more gold plated plumbing fixtures in our condos at Vail. Thank you very much.

What did you expect us to do? Build thousands of Billion dollar, mile high, atmospheric, CO2, gas sequestering scrubbers with the money? We thought we'd print up some nice, four color, informational brochures. Here ya go...no, take two.

This is true in a sense. I think the point where the govt and the oil companies began to visibly accept global warming is the point where they realized they could make a huge profit on it. Oil companies have been very interested in renewable fuels for a really long time now, but there was no market for it. They know as well as anybody just how many years of selling oil and gas they have left before running out, and so have been looking at how to stay in business far into the future. Now that they are seeing a likely profit on it, they are all, at least the big 3 investing massively in renewables and green energy.

This is true in a sense. I think the point where the govt and the oil companies began to visibly accept global warming is the point where they realized they could make a huge profit on it. Oil companies have been very interested in renewable fuels for a really long time now, but there was no market for it. They know as well as anybody just how many years of selling oil and gas they have left before running out, and so have been looking at how to stay in business far into the future. Now that they are seeing a likely profit on it, they are all, at least the big 3 investing massively in renewables and green energy.

Sad, isn't it.

I actually think another part of the plan goes like this:

Get the price of gas up to a constant, inflation adjusted $10 to $20 a gallon, probably by adding "taxes". This allows the Big Three auto makers to declare bankruptcy, thereby transferring current worker heath care costs, that are killing them, to the mythical, indestructible "taxpayer".

As gas is now $15/gal, everything currently on the road is obsolete. Big Three opens up under new or hybridized names (Fordsuki), manufactures new technological high mileage, wonder machines (using commercialized flying saucer tech) that get 80 to 100mpg. These are leased to the public under 20 year finance plans, so you'll have a lifetime "affordable" car payment.

Much needed manufacturing is restarted, remaining oil supplies last 10 times as long, old car "recycling centers" spring up, "government" gets to ramp up printing presses to provide serfs with new disposable income...everybody lives Happy Ever After. Waves tiny flag.

ps. Just kidding about the flying saucer tech, it's actually old Tesla Tech.

This is true in a sense. I think the point where the govt and the oil companies began to visibly accept global warming is the point where they realized they could make a huge profit on it. Oil companies have been very interested in renewable fuels for a really long time now, but there was no market for it. They know as well as anybody just how many years of selling oil and gas they have left before running out, and so have been looking at how to stay in business far into the future. Now that they are seeing a likely profit on it, they are all, at least the big 3 investing massively in renewables and green energy.

The amusing (or tragic) part is how people continue to be surprised by capitalism working the way it was designed to. We've worshiped this economic system for more than 100 years, and we continue to wonder why we continue to be taken advantage of. The bedrock of our country rests upon the principles of large corporations amassing unimaginable wealth by consuming resources and creating dependencies in local and foreign populations. This is who we are. This is what we do. This is our "way of life"; the one the Administration tells us "the enemy" wants to take away from us. Meanwhile, other countries invest in things like public transportation and universal healthcare. But we've been trained like dogs to bark at "socialism", to hiss at "shared risk". So why do we keep complaining when the idols we've erected keep throwing us to the wolves? This is the Free Market at work. This is God Bless America!

Sit down the average American, and he or she will tell you he doesn't like high gas, or she doesn't want big government, or that he wants to be made healthy when he's sick. But that same American will turn around and mock the French for their "tiny cars", the Germans for their "high taxes", the British for their "socialized medicine". And then she'll promptly vote into office people with decade-long ties to the auto industry, the oil industry, the military. She'll hate the gays if you tell her to, and the Mexicans too. He'll scoff at renewable energy until the energy industry decides otherwise, whereupon the media will run enough commercials to change his mind. And then when things don't work out for him, he'll blame China, as he's been told to do. And nothing will change. Because nothing was ever supposed to change. I don't expect regular people to understand this--if they did, capitalism wouldn't be nearly as successful as it is. But it's tragic nonetheless.

I think it is a testament to the poor science reporting in the media coupled with our crappy education system that there is even any debate on this issue. In the past, I really wanted to believe that global warming was a con job by the likes of greenpeace and David Suzuki, mostly because my livelihood depends on the oil business.

But folks, the facts are in and the only people arguing against the reality of human caused global warming are either ignorant or stupid. This planet has been radically changed by lifeforms in the past, think of flowering plants, corals and grasses for a start. The fact is that now we are having an effect.

Accept it, ***** about it, vote for change. I don't care. Just stop denying it.

i think it is a testament to the poor science reporting in the media coupled with our crappy education system that there is even any debate on this issue. In the past, i really wanted to believe that global warming was a con job by the likes of greenpeace and david suzuki, mostly because my livelihood depends on the oil business.

But folks, the facts are in and the only people arguing against the reality of human caused global warming are either ignorant or stupid. This planet has been radically changed by lifeforms in the past, think of flowering plants, corals and grasses for a start. The fact is that now we are having an effect.

Accept it, ***** about it, vote for change. I don't care. Just stop denying it.

+1

The amusing (or tragic) part is how people continue to be surprised by capitalism working the way it was designed to.

Although I agree with your sentiment, I have to say I only wish it were capitalism.

We"re watching controlled markets (socialism) wreak the havoc you describe. Taxation and subsidies are the main tools used to direct markets into wretched excess and waste, and maybe even contribute to the "climate change" we worry about.

Case in point being the whole hyper consumerism mortgage fiasco currently unwinding. Where did companies like Countrywide get all those trillions of dollars to give the mortgagees to buy the houses they were buying? From a Government Sponsored Entity named Fannie? I don't see where Government's job has ever been to "sponsor" ostensibly private businesses.

Goes on to the tune of Trillions, every year.

I don't see where Government's job has ever been to "sponsor" ostensibly private businesses.

The government sponsoring corporations isn't socialism; that's just corporatism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism). When the gov't awards no-bid contracts to Halliburton and GE to enable the further plundering of Iraq, that's not socialism; that's still corporatism. Ditto with your mortgage examples. It has as much to do with actual socialism as practiced in countries like France as Dr. Phil has to do with brain surgery. Corporatism isn't socialism any more than stealing is sharing.

The government sponsoring corporations isn't socialism; that's just corporatism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism). When the gov't awards no-bid contracts to Halliburton and GE to enable the further plundering of Iraq, that's not socialism; that's still corporatism. Ditto with your mortgage examples. It has as much to do with actual socialism as practiced in countries like France as Dr. Phil has to do with brain surgery. Corporatism isn't socialism any more than stealing is sharing.

Your right.

The definition of Government melding with corporations is "Fascism", but I was even more hesitant to bring such a misunderstood, emotionally charged word into this place, so I use the softer, but incorrect, "Socialism".

Although I agree with your sentiment, I have to say I only wish it were capitalism.

We"re watching controlled markets (socialism) wreak the havoc you describe. Taxation and subsidies are the main tools used to direct markets into wretched excess and waste, and maybe even contribute to the "climate change" we worry about.

Case in point being the whole hyper consumerism mortgage fiasco currently unwinding. Where did companies like Countrywide get all those trillions of dollars to give the mortgagees to buy the houses they were buying? From a Government Sponsored Entity named Fannie? I don't see where Government's job has ever been to "sponsor" ostensibly private businesses.

Goes on to the tune of Trillions, every year.

++1

Global "climate change" will be used as a money grab to subsidize the wealthy and powerful so they can control the production and use of energy. The Cap-and-Trade swindle will bilk trillions from the hard working people of this country and from around the world in the form of higher energy prices. It is actually Global Tyranny and it will be used to control your life. It will be used to dictate what kind of vehicle you use for transport, what kind of light bulbs you can use, how you heat/cool you home and the temperature allowed, when you can plug-in your PHV, and the list will grow longer. There is even a UN bureaucrat "suggesting" that we consume less beef so we can reduce the number of cattle because they contribute to global climate change. I can't wait to hear Sen. Harry Reid say, "Cow farts are killing us". What really sickens me is when politicians, business leaders and all those wanting approval, bow at the alter of global climate change.

Also, I suggest anyone who thinks that skeptics of man-made global climate change are stupid, to read "The Deniers" by Lawrence Solomon. Another good read is "Climate Confusion" by Roy W. Spencer.

++1

Global "climate change" will be used as a money grab to subsidize the wealthy and powerful so they can control the production and use of energy. The Cap-and-Trade swindle will bilk trillions from the hard working people of this country and from around the world in the form of higher energy prices. It is actually Global Tyranny and it will be used to control your life. It will be used to dictate what kind of vehicle you use for transport, what kind of light bulbs you can use, how you heat/cool you home and the temperature allowed, when you can plug-in your PHV, and the list will grow longer. There is even a UN bureaucrat "suggesting" that we consume less beef so we can reduce the number of cattle because they contribute to global climate change. I can't wait to hear Sen. Harry Reid say, "Cow farts are killing us". What really sickens me is when politicians, business leaders and all those wanting approval, bow at the alter of global climate change.

100% Good on you.

Dictating what you eat is easy under "communitarian law", you're already told to wear your seat belt. Good idea? Sure. Something you can direct a free man in a free country to do? No.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Raapana/niki.htm

The "carbon unit" contracts are being readied on the exchanges.

I'm glad you think it does not matter. Please keep your sources loyal to your beliefs and your mind closed. Life is easier that way.

Feel free to offer some evidence to the contrary. One year being cooler is not evidence.

So much of the world's population lives within three or four feet of sea level, and when they or their croplands get flooded out, they will have to go somewhere.

thats why our own intelligence agencies see climate change as a security issue--

++1

Global "climate change" will be used as a money grab to subsidize the wealthy and powerful so they can control the production and use of energy. The Cap-and-Trade swindle will bilk trillions from the hard working people of this country and from around the world in the form of higher energy prices. It is actually Global Tyranny and it will be used to control your life. It will be used to dictate what kind of vehicle you use for transport, what kind of light bulbs you can use, how you heat/cool you home and the temperature allowed, when you can plug-in your PHV, and the list will grow longer. There is even a UN bureaucrat "suggesting" that we consume less beef so we can reduce the number of cattle because they contribute to global climate change. I can't wait to hear Sen. Harry Reid say, "Cow farts are killing us". What really sickens me is when politicians, business leaders and all those wanting approval, bow at the alter of global climate change.

Also, I suggest anyone who thinks that skeptics of man-made global climate change are stupid, to read "The Deniers" by Lawrence Solomon. Another good read is "Climate Confusion" by Roy W. Spencer.

Your argument against anthropogenic global warming is socio-economic. You are probably correct that many of the international and government programs will serve no other purpose than to enrich large corporations, but that does not change the fact that global climate is now responding to human activity.

My comment regarding skeptics being ignorant or stupid was directed at those who choose to regurgitate the views of the 'deniers', those few, cynical scientists who advance alternative theories based on cherry-picked evidence. These people are following a well-worn script previously followed by the tobacco and chemical industries. The result is that affected industries get to keep doing business as usual for a while until even the densest of the dittoheads can see that they are lying.

I live in oil and gas country and the last solid bastion of GW denial and sceptics (Louisiana and Texas). Ironic, isn't it, that we are now a bowling alley of hurricanes and tornados on GW steroids and the Mecca of oil and gas (Houston) just got nailed by Ike this morning.

I'm not car free at the moment, but I've been car-free or car-lite most of my life ... and I don't believe in global warming. Weather is cyclic. It gets hot, it gets cold, then it gets hot again. Just like the temperature change during a 24 hour span, just like the changing of the seasons through the course of the year, so is the big weather picture.


You are correct, weather is cyclic. The problem is that weather and climate are not same thing. Even when the arctic ice cap has melted, it will still be cold in January and warm in August (at least in Edmonton:)). The problem you need to appreciate is how the amplitude and frequency of the temperature cycle can affect us, as well as how it responds to the effects of carbon loading. That is what the debate is about.

Ignorance begets confidence more often than knowledge

How apropos.

You are correct, weather is cyclic. The problem is that weather and climate are not same thing. Even when the arctic ice cap has melted, it will still be cold in January and warm in August (at least in Edmonton:)). The problem you need to appreciate is how the amplitude and frequency of the temperature cycle can affect us, as well as how it responds to the effects of carbon loading. That is what the debate is about.

You are right but the climate is cyclic as well.

Anyone here know when the little ice age was? Hint - it was not that long ago.

How apropos.

[/SIZE]

Thanks for noting my sig:) I agree it is apropos. If you had discussed global warming with me eight years ago, you would have had difficulty distinguishing my stance from gosmsgo or the other 'skeptics'. I work for the oil industry and live in the middle of cattle country, I have lots of reasons to want to reject the whole global warming thing.

But I changed my mind, based on observation and study. Part of my job involves tracking sea ice in the arctic ocean. It might surprise you to know that the same companies that are funding the anti-global warming institutes are also currently doing engineering studies to support drilling in offshore areas that are expected to be ice-free for the first time in thousands of years.

I live in oil and gas country and the last solid bastion of GW denial and sceptics (Louisiana and Texas). Ironic, isn't it, that we are now a bowling alley of hurricanes and tornados on GW steroids and the Mecca of oil and gas (Houston) just got nailed by Ike this morning.

Where I live we seem to be having 500-year flood phenomena about every decade or so. You can't blame all the devastation on climate change (for example, there is the issue of where people choose to live and farm techniques that allow huge run-off), but frequent and severe rain events are one of the predictions of climatologists considering the climate is warming.

Or maybe I'm just imagining all this...

But I changed my mind, based on observation and study. Part of my job involves tracking sea ice in the arctic ocean. It might surprise you to know that the same companies that are funding the anti-global warming institutes are also currently doing engineering studies to support drilling in offshore areas that are expected to be ice-free for the first time in thousands of years.

Many of the deniers you refer to do not deny the existence of a warming trend in the climate. Many of them do, however, disagree with the causes and the urgency of the situation. I'm sure you know that climate change is predicted using computer models. These computer models use many assumptions about weather and climate and do a poor job of modeling reality, because we know so little about how the climate works. Just the precipitation subsystem of climate alone is impossible to model accurately because of the complexity. I don't think a tax (which is what cap-and-trade is) amounting to trillions of dollars is the answer to climate change. The real answer is to let people keep their money and do their own due diligence to protect themselves to whatever degree they see fit. Even the IPCC of the evil UN has admitted that reducing CO2 to levels of 30-40 years ago will only lower the the tempurature of the planet a miniscule amount ( I think it was < 1 DEGC). If the doomsayers really thought this is an emergency, they would, at the very least, be proposing evacuation plans for all coastal cities.

The real emergency is the threat to personal freedom and liberty that global climate change hysteria and propaganda presents to all hard working people in the US and around the world.

TABOR -

Try google.

2008 coolest year

Its true. Not something I made up.

Try not sounding so misinformed.
The cycles of the sun have far more to do with weather on Earth than anything humans have done.

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/06/02/solar-cycle-24-could-be-13-years-long-cooler-times-ahead/

If you wish to discuss "ways that fascists attempt to control ignorant masses", that's an entirely different subject, and one not related to any particular condition of weather.
~

I'm surprised to see any anthropogenic global warming skeptics here. I'd thought it was basically considered heresy to question the majority view on that topic these days. Although it's allegedly been debunked six ways to Sunday, I thought this video http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Global_Warming_Swindle was interesting, because it has interviews with some of the actual scientists who are questioning the theory. I often hear of these renegade researchers allegedly spouting nonsnese, but never actually hear the argument from their own mouths.

One of the more interesting theories I've come across, is that the world's oceans are actually being warmed by increased volcanic activity on the ocean floor (think 'black smokers' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_smokers )...an area that's expensive and difficult for us to monitor easily (at least compared to volcanos on land). As to what would be causing the increased volcanic activity, who knows, but it is an interesting idea.

+1000000

I can't believe that people still don't get it. It took a few environmental studies classes, and few geology classes, but I see now that there is absolutely no intelligible way to deny it. In fact the only thing that is still up in the air is how bad is it gonna get, and how fast it's gonna happen, and as we learn more, it becomes increasingly likely that the speed and magnitude of the change will be far greater than even the most liberal, green, radical, climate scientist would have guessed five years ago.

One of the more interesting theories I've come across, is that the world's oceans are actually being warmed by increased volcanic activity on the ocean floor (think 'black smokers' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_smokers )...an area that's expensive and difficult for us to monitor easily (at least compared to volcanos on land). As to what would be causing the increased volcanic activity, who knows, but it is an interesting idea.[/QUOTE]

I'm no expert, and I wasn't able to watch the video you posted (linked didn't work) but .....There's no way. The this here is that many of earths natural cycles can have profound effects on the climate, however, changes in overall volcanic activity (i.e. mid ocean spreading ridges) happen (as to almost all other earth cycles) on massive hundred thousand year - million year cycles. The times scales of natural changer are HUGE. So although it's possible that such an increase in tectonic activity could cause climate change (in fact has in the past), the effect would slow if if it was large. Furthermore, tectonic/volcanic activity is on the whole diminishing as time goes on (billions of years), these processes are powered the decay of radioactive elements inside the earth, and as time passes the amount of these grows less and less, and less and less energy is released.

Anyways, the big end all proof of climate change being human induced is simply the time scale. Although the earth can naturally reach 'tipping points' where things will change very quickly, that 'very quickly' in NOTHING compared to the speed at which we are causing change. Of course the earth will eventually sort itself out, but not for thousands of years.

The amusing (or tragic) part is how people continue to be surprised by capitalism working the way it was designed to. We've worshiped this economic system for more than 100 years, and we continue to wonder why we continue to be taken advantage of. The bedrock of our country rests upon the principles of large corporations amassing unimaginable wealth by consuming resources and creating dependencies in local and foreign populations. This is who we are. This is what we do. This is our "way of life"; the one the Administration tells us "the enemy" wants to take away from us. Meanwhile, other countries invest in things like public transportation and universal healthcare. But we've been trained like dogs to bark at "socialism", to hiss at "shared risk". So why do we keep complaining when the idols we've erected keep throwing us to the wolves? This is the Free Market at work. This is God Bless America!

Sit down the average American, and he or she will tell you he doesn't like high gas, or she doesn't want big government, or that he wants to be made healthy when he's sick. But that same American will turn around and mock the French for their "tiny cars", the Germans for their "high taxes", the British for their "socialized medicine". And then she'll promptly vote into office people with decade-long ties to the auto industry, the oil industry, the military. She'll hate the gays if you tell her to, and the Mexicans too. He'll scoff at renewable energy until the energy industry decides otherwise, whereupon the media will run enough commercials to change his mind. And then when things don't work out for him, he'll blame China, as he's been told to do. And nothing will change. Because nothing was ever supposed to change. I don't expect regular people to understand this--if they did, capitalism wouldn't be nearly as successful as it is. But it's tragic nonetheless.

This is so true. You can totally see it when you get away from the propaganda for a while. When you come back, it's all so clear what is wrong. Slowly it starts to feel normal again. It's maddening that we are stuck in this system. The only way to get out seems to be one individual at a time, which reminds me of Roody's other question about why bother? It's the only way out. That's why.

By the way, we should actually be more concerned with the effect that all this carbon we are unsequestering is having on the oceans. They are measurably more acidic now because the ocean is a carbon sink. Too acidic and creatures who secrete calcium carbonate shells will not be able to do so and will die. We depend on many of these creatures for food.

Once the food chain collapses it won't matter if it's hotter or cooler.

I hope I don't come across as too cynical in my posts, but I have a certain amount of frustration listening to so many people who may be concerned about all this climate stuff, but they don't change anything in their lives that could "help".

I live a pretty simple life, mostly for Biblical reasons that just feel right to me. I admit I'm single and childless, so this works for me, but many of the problems we see in the world at large, are caused by our own desires (multiplied by the millions of people wanting things) maybe instilled by genius advertising campaigns. The "Good Life"...the "American Dream".

Since 1997, I've been car free, live in a 450 sqft, off the grid, solar powered house. I have no insurance, no payments (no debt), no mailbox, no lawn, no vacations, and use 160 gallons of water a month.

I tend to get cranky when my jet setting "leaders", or people with three or four 8,000 sqft houses, jetting around on their world vacations, living opulent life styles, complain about climate changes. Not saying that describes any of you, as you may be living even simpler than me. Just a generalization. :)

Whether it's getting hotter, or colder, I can agree with pretty much what all of you say here. But what can you do about it? Only by getting millions of people to voluntarily change their lifestyles, often to what many of them see as for the worse, will things change. Joe Average is pretty expedient and shortsighted in the way he solves problems, so we may not like his solutions to what you may perceive as a grave "problem." I just try to inform you that if "Government" gets involved, they will "game" the solution to your detriment.

Besides, near as I can tell, most of the populace is in for a bit of a downward adjustment in their lifestyles, soon to be forced on them by economic necessity.

hello;
for the record i do believe that global warming is caused by man but it does'nt make any difference who caused it, we're going to pay for it. there's a buddhist story about a man that had been shot by an arrow. before being treated though he demanded to know the origin of the arrow, the character of the shooter, the tribe that had sent him and all manner of details. before the information could be had he died. that seems to be the situation we find ourselves in. we are arguing about who/what's to blame and delaying efforts to solve the problem.

Gos --

There is absolute consensus that we are in a cooling period that may last up to 10 more years. No climate scientist has denied it and in fact, you can read about it in many different science journals. But if your trend is already absurdly high, and only drops a little bit, do you really consider that cooling? Especially when the overall trend is still going up?

So the answer to your question in no way invalidates global warming.

Global warming is another example of the right-wing anti-intellectuals ganging up on science again with FUD. The process basically goes like this:
Discover idea that will prevent large sums of money being made
create right-wing think tanks containing people with fancy degrees that may not have anything to do with the topic at hand
publish and publish some more so you can show how mainstream you are

This has been going on for decades. It happened (still happening) with evolution, women's birth control, abortion, worker's health codes and pesticides.

++1

Global "climate change" will be used as a money grab to subsidize the wealthy and powerful so they can control the production and use of energy. The Cap-and-Trade swindle will bilk trillions from the hard working people of this country and from around the world in the form of higher energy prices. It is actually Global Tyranny and it will be used to control your life. It will be used to dictate what kind of vehicle you use for transport, what kind of light bulbs you can use, how you heat/cool you home and the temperature allowed, when you can plug-in your PHV, and the list will grow longer. There is even a UN bureaucrat "suggesting" that we consume less beef so we can reduce the number of cattle because they contribute to global climate change. I can't wait to hear Sen. Harry Reid say, "Cow farts are killing us". What really sickens me is when politicians, business leaders and all those wanting approval, bow at the alter of global climate change.

Also, I suggest anyone who thinks that skeptics of man-made global climate change are stupid, to read "The Deniers" by Lawrence Solomon. Another good read is "Climate Confusion" by Roy W. Spencer.

Posts like this make me hate the internet, and despair for the future of this country. I suggest you gather some basic facts before you subject others to your diatribes. It should be clear to anyone who's paid any attention at all that things are dangerously different in our climate. The Northwest Passage is now a reality. Temps in the Arctic are much, much higher than they were a generation ago. Large fissures are appearing in the Greenland ice sheet, and lakes are showing up in the ice in Antarctica. Glaciers are shrinking all over the planet. Ice core samples indicate that the current average temperature is significantly higher than at any time in at least the last 600,000 years. Australia has suffered more or less constant drought for the last decade, and parts of Africa south of the Sahara have been drying up since the 1980s. All of these changes have occurred at a time when CO2 concentrations in our atmosphere have increased from 280 ppm to 370+ ppm in the last 150 years, and are increasing rapidly. The most recent IPCC report, http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar4/wg1/ar4-wg1-spm.pdf, which is very far from a crazy-eyed enviro document, spells it out very clearly. How much of an idiot do you have to be to ignore the obvious?

Posts like this make me hate ... an idiot ...

Well said. I'm leaving now to avoid any violence.

One, of course humans are adding to the climate change, just look at the climate trend (not weather, climate). Two, gas is still underpriced by a huge amount. If the gas were taxed to pay for roads and repair, pollution, deaths and injuries, water pollution, etc., gas would cost a lot more -capitalism doesn't work well for us when some people get special treatment. Three, global climate change is not the only problem, we have all been living beyond our resources for quite some time now. Eventually, if we keep (and we will) treating the planet as if we are not part of the whole, then things will get bad for humans as it already has for many thousands of species of animals and plants. We are using up resources faster than they can be replaced, it isn't rocket science.

Ever wonder why so many people are in denial about global climate change? Could it be because they would have to make changes and take some responsibilty?

Okay, I just don't get it. For those of you that don't believe global warming is man made, which of the following don't you understand?

1. Atmospheric CO2 concentration correlates strongly to the average temperature of the plantet.
2. Humans are pumping tons of CO2 into the atmosphere.

Seriously, which is it? #1 or #2?