Living Car Free - Unwarranted Guilt Trip From Cagers

I have a couple people in my life who sorta look at my living car free as a "cute" thing i'm "trying out." - like when my brother decided he would only answer to the name Luke Skywalker in 1980.

With these people, whenever we make plans to meet up they start trying to figure out the logistics of getting me there. A conversation usually ensues:

Them: So you want me to pick you up?
Me: No I'll meet you there.
Them: What on your bike?!?
Me: Yeah.
Them: Honestly, it's fast for me to swing by once I get off the freeway, why don't I just pick you up?
Me: No it's not far. I'll bike it. Totally fine.
Them: Come on. I'll pick you up. It's settled.

But here's the kicker. I've noticed that if I give in to their awkward insistence that they pick me up, they later cite that example as an illustration of the inconvenience of car-free living. "Remember when we went to lunch and I had to pick you up first?"

It makes me want to scream. What am I supposed to do? Do I escalate the initial conversation into a fight with me flat out insisting to not accept a ride so that I can avoid the later guilt trip? Then I'll become some sort of militant biker in their minds.

"The only reason you gave me a ride was because I was being nice enough to let you feel needed."

Okay, that's not such a great choice of words.

"The only reason you gave me a ride was because I was being nice enough to accept your insistence."

you can't do anything really. they have their mind made up. if you accept the ride, you're viewed as a wishy washy fair weather biker. if you always ride, then you're crazy bike dude. if you stand up to them, you're crazy bike dude with a radical agenda. or something like that.

But here's the kicker. I've noticed that if I give in to their awkward insistence that they pick me up, they later cite that example as an illustration of the inconvenience of car-free living. "Remember when we went to lunch and I had to pick you up first?"

It makes me want to scream. What am I supposed to do? Do I escalate the initial conversation into a fight with me flat out insisting to not accept a ride so that I can avoid the later guilt trip? Then I'll become some sort of militant biker in their minds.

True friends will understand and respect your honorable choices. Tell the rest to bugger off!:notamused:

Are these people family members? Are they your pals? I wonder if it's only people who are used to trying to tell you what to do that insist on picking you up and then lay the guilt trip on you.

Are these people family members? Are they your pals? I wonder if it's only people who are used to trying to tell you what to do that insist on picking you up and then lay the guilt trip on you.

family. not too surprising, huh.

At the point of saying "I had" I would correct them I would simply state You wanted to, and I really didn't mind riding my bike.

"Remember when we went to lunch and I had to pick you up first?"
You do a lightning calculation of social game theory and conclude that the minimum loss scenario is to give your friend the increment of social prestige he's asking for. It would be a much larger loss to go into a long winded explanation or to challenge your friend's basic life choices. So the correct answer (IMHO) is...

"Yes, thank you."

If you continue to move around on your bike, your friends and family will get tired of talking about it and, most especially, picking you up. You'll no longer be a social pariah and they'll no longer try to lord it over you.

You just need to be patient.

Just remind them. "You offered to pick me up, so I thought you didn't mind. You didn't have to, as I would have ridden my bike and it wouldn't have been a problem."

What they said isn't so much guilt-tripping as... retroactively misremembering what happened. :lol: They're choosing to remember the inconvenience and forget that it didn't have to be that way.

I would say No thanks and what time are we meeting there, I did that one time with some buddies of mine. I made it to the pub long before they did, due to an accident on the main road.:D

Aaron:)

You're already showing the tendencies of a militant biker. For a start, lose the "cagers" description. I occasionally drive cars, too, and don't appreciate the disrespectful descriptor... it just indicates how jaundiced your outlook really is.

It really shouldn't be that tough for you to justify politely your choices in transport. Does it really matter what other people say and think about you? It's never really bothered me, both in what other people think of my transport choices, and accepting a lift when I feel I could do with a rest from cycling.

family. not too surprising, huh.

If family still tell them to bugger off......just do it politely.

If ya let'em jerk ya around now then you're in for a lifetime of getting jerked around. Stop it now!

Them: So you want me to pick you up?
Me: No I'll meet you there.
Them: What on your bike?!?
Me: Yeah.
Them: Honestly, it's fast for me to swing by once I get off the freeway, why don't I just pick you up?
Me: No it's not far. I'll bike it. Totally fine.
Them: Come on. I'll pick you up. It's settled.


Me: No, you picked me up last time. This time I'll pick you up.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2308/2103856091_e99e2b238b_m.jpg


my standard response to "You want a ride?" is "Yes, I do want to ride."

You're already showing the tendencies of a militant biker. For a start, lose the "cagers" description. I occasionally drive cars, too, and don't appreciate the disrespectful descriptor... it just indicates how jaundiced your outlook really is.

It really shouldn't be that tough for you to justify politely your choices in transport. Does it really matter what other people say and think about you? It's never really bothered me, both in what other people think of my transport choices, and accepting a lift when I feel I could do with a rest from cycling.

The mighty rowan bestows his knowledge upon us.

*bows*

The mighty rowan bestows his knowledge upon us.

*bows*

Thanks. That's what I am here for... to help those obviously bereft of ideas and solutions of their own. Or do you actually have something to contribute?

I have a couple people in my life who sorta look at my living car free as a "cute" thing i'm "trying out." - like when my brother decided he would only answer to the name Luke Skywalker in 1980.

With these people, whenever we make plans to meet up they start trying to figure out the logistics of getting me there. A conversation usually ensues:

Them: So you want me to pick you up?
Me: No I'll meet you there.
Them: What on your bike?!?
Me: Yeah.
Them: Honestly, it's fast for me to swing by once I get off the freeway, why don't I just pick you up?
Me: No it's not far. I'll bike it. Totally fine.
Them: Come on. I'll pick you up. It's settled.

But here's the kicker. I've noticed that if I give in to their awkward insistence that they pick me up, they later cite that example as an illustration of the inconvenience of car-free living. "Remember when we went to lunch and I had to pick you up first?"

It makes me want to scream. What am I supposed to do? Do I escalate the initial conversation into a fight with me flat out insisting to not accept a ride so that I can avoid the later guilt trip? Then I'll become some sort of militant biker in their minds.

I've been car-free for the last four years, and I just went the militant route: unless the friend was literally leaving from my location and going directly to where I was going, I consistently refused any and all rides, no questions asked (unless it involved my SO). Sometimes I refused rides even then, because I just wanted to ride my bike. Now, with so many people riding bikes anyway, no one even brings it up, so it's pretty much a non-issue at this point. Basically, I won out through a combination of sheer pig-headedness and a cultural shift. :)

You're already showing the tendencies of a militant biker. For a start, lose the "cagers" description. I occasionally drive cars, too, and don't appreciate the disrespectful descriptor... it just indicates how jaundiced your outlook really is.

It really shouldn't be that tough for you to justify politely your choices in transport. Does it really matter what other people say and think about you? It's never really bothered me, both in what other people think of my transport choices, and accepting a lift when I feel I could do with a rest from cycling.

Uuntil now? :rolleyes:

Uuntil now? :rolleyes:

Face!

No really, what's with the whole "militant biker" thing, anyway? We all ride in trains/buses and walk when the situation says they are the best modes.

So, I'd say to call people who ride in/drive cars *exclusiveley* (and there's a lot of them) "militant cagers". Actually, they're a lot more "militant" than any of us are, just by their insistence on one and only one mode of transport.

Easy solution. Always be "out"

Updated converstation below

Them: So you want me to pick you up?
Me: No I'll meet you there.
Them: What on your bike?!?
Me: Yeah.
Them: Honestly, it's fast for me to swing by once I get off the freeway, why don't I just pick you up?
Me: I won't be home, I have to run errands so I don't know where I would be for you to pick me up. But it's cool, I will see you at (insert meeting place) at (insert meeting time).
Them: Ok then, well if you get stuck somewhere and need a ride just call me
Me: No problem, see you later.

Basically they can't come by your house to pick you up if you aren't there. Heck you may find on the days you all meet up somewhere would be a good time to run some errands on your way there anyhow.

-D

I would say No thanks and what time are we meeting there, I did that one time with some buddies of mine. I made it to the pub long before they did, due to an accident on the main road.:D

Aaron:)

On Wednesday after school, all the first grade teachers in the district had a meeting at a school that was just over 3 miles away by car, but less than a mile and a half by bike. Nobody offered me a ride because they knew damn well I'd be the first person from our school to arrive.

A few didn't know how to get there and when they asked me for directions, all I could say was "Go down the road, cut through the first park, cross the footbridge and you're there." My directions were met with a friendly sneer, but the fact was that I really didn't know any other way to get there.

Easy solution. Always be "out"

I like that. Simple.

----

And as for the use of "cagers." It's a commonly used short-hand term for "people who generally drive everywhere for all their local transportation needs and have a limited outlook which leads them to believe that car travel is the only form of effective local transit." It doesn't refer to all people who drive cars. It refers to people who are caging themselves by their own limited thinking.

So if you drive a car, you're not necessarily a cager.

"All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares."

A few didn't know how to get there and when they asked me for directions, all I could say was "Go down the road, cut through the first park, cross the footbridge and you're there." My directions were met with a friendly sneer, but the fact was that I really didn't know any other way to get there.


This captures the beauty of car-free as simply as anyone has managed in this forum!

In response to the original question: I get some grief from people about my utility biking (I am not car-free and am not even sure if I count as car-light. But I do use my bike for nearly all errands and shopping around town.) But anyone who knows me seems to be universally supportive.

jim

I like that. Simple.

----

And as for the use of "cagers." It's a commonly used short-hand term for "people who generally drive everywhere for all their local transportation needs and have a limited outlook which leads them to believe that car travel is the only form of effective local transit." It doesn't refer to all people who drive cars. It refers to people who are caging themselves by their own limited thinking.

So if you drive a car, you're not necessarily a cager.

"All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares."

Your assumptions are rife and immature.

That "simple" solution is a lie. Is that what you intend to base your life on?

Why don't you tell your relatives the truth -- that you don't like the guilt trip you claim they impose on you, and that you will opt to ride your bicycle into the future.

There is just so much bulldust perpetrated by so-called car-free cyclists to rationalise their decision-making process, that it poisons the environment for everyone around them -- other cyclists included. As demonstrated by the rather poor and childish attempts to play me rather than the issue.

One of my coworkers recently did something similar. I work at an electrical supply house, and I'm remodeling a house for myself. So one day I had bought a ceiling fan to drop of at the house on my way back to my apartment. It was quite large, and at the end of the day I had it strapped to my rack and was about to head out.

Coworker: Hey, want me to drop that off at your house for you on my way home?
Me: No thanks. I appreciate the offer, but I need to go over there anyeway so I'll just take it.
Coworker: Oh come on, I don't mind doing it.
Me: That's okay, it's really no big deal. Thanks, though.
Coworker: No seriously, I have no problem dropping it off. Just let me do it.
Me: I need to go over there anyway, there's really no need for you to do that, but thanks for the offer.
Coworker: Here, just give me the fan. I really want to take it over there for you.
Me: *sigh* Okay. Thanks a lot.
Coworker as I'm putting the fan in the bed of his truck: You owe me big for this.
Me: :twitchy::notamused:

When someone offers me a ride (which is rarely) I like to stick with the 'ol point at the bike and say "Got one, thanks!"

That "simple" solution is a lie. Is that what you intend to base your life on.

Wrong. The solution I referred to suggested "you may find on the days you all meet up somewhere would be a good time to run some errands on your way there anyhow."

Which is true.

I didn't think running errands was immature. But running errands is rife, so I guess you're 1 for 2.

Just say. "I have it covered, meet you at 12:30" (or whatever). If they keep insisting, repeat "I'll see you there at 12:30" and walk off. What are they gonna do? Chase you down and physically restrain you in their car? Any decent human being will let it go if you're set in your ways.

Although this approach will guarantee you no rides in the future. :lol: Not that you'd want that anyway . . .

Man, all my friends are car-free, with a very few exceptions. If there is a time anyone needs a ride (vacation trip, our band is playing out, etc) they usually get pissed about always having to drive. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

If you continue to move around on your bike, your friends and family will get tired of talking about it and, most especially, picking you up. You'll no longer be a social pariah and they'll no longer try to lord it over you.

You just need to be patient.

+1. This has definitely been my experience. Sometimes I wish they would ask me.

You're already showing the tendencies of a militant biker. For a start, lose the "cagers" description. I occasionally drive cars, too, and don't appreciate the disrespectful descriptor... it just indicates how jaundiced your outlook really is.

It really shouldn't be that tough for you to justify politely your choices in transport. Does it really matter what other people say and think about you? It's never really bothered me, both in what other people think of my transport choices, and accepting a lift when I feel I could do with a rest from cycling.

Do you know where the term cager comes from? It merely suggests that you feel freer because you ride a bike. How is that disrespectful? IMO, cagers are more to be pitied than disrespected.

As for militant cyclist--right on! You have to be a little militant to get anywhere with "motorists". And why should anybody--cager or cyclist--feel a need to "justify" their transport choices. My assumption is that everybody makes the choice that works best for them. Like you, I don't see any need to justify my occasional choice to take a lift--not even on a carfree forum.

Your assumptions are rife and immature.

That "simple" solution is a lie. Is that what you intend to base your life on?

Why don't you tell your relatives the truth -- that you don't like the guilt trip you claim they impose on you, and that you will opt to ride your bicycle into the future.

There is just so much bulldust perpetrated by so-called car-free cyclists to rationalise their decision-making process, that it poisons the environment for everyone around them -- other cyclists included. As demonstrated by the rather poor and childish attempts to play me rather than the issue.

What's that old saying? Something about a pot and a kettle?

If it was my family I would get all pedantic and annoying on them. But then there have been periods where I didn't talk to most of my family for years. In my case with my family, I prefer to be right and follow my own course to "smoothing the waters", damn the cost.

If it was my wife's friends, I would have smiled and nodded. Later my wife and I would laugh and belittle them in the comfort of our own home.

If it was work friends, I would have smiled and nodded. I would avoid socializing with them outside work from that point on.

It if was my friends, I would be shopping for replacements.

I don't understand this because I haven't experienced it. British Columbia has an amazing cycling culture, especially around the coast and on Vancouver Island. Even in the rest of the province, cycling is usually embraced and accepted. In other parts of Canada, cycling isn't quite as common, but even when I lived in in those areas, I've never felt pressured to accept a ride.

People see me cycling around town all the time — to work, to meetings, running errands and riding for pleasure — so they know this is how I prefer to get around. The most common response is one of awe and wonder, with people asking me about cycling.

I've had a few people ask if I'm going to be safe, especially if I'm about to head out on a dark rural road at night in winter, but once I explain the safety precautions I'm taking, they understand. I've never felt the pressure to take a ride.

If a ride is convenient and sensible, I take it. Maybe I'm out at a party past midnight, and a friend offers to drop me off. The person who would most often do this has to drive past my apartment anyway, so it is just an extra minute or two... and they're quite happy to take me up on offers of a quick grocery run or a free dinner :).

If it is not more convenient for everyone involved, it's usually pretty obvious. There is a pretty hard and fast limit to how many tall adults and bicycles will fit in a compact car... Mostly, I don't have to push to make a "no" stick. Even my parents know that I can do most errands faster by bike than I can with a car, because they've seen me puzzling over routes and getting us most awfully lost. (Madison has a lot of spots where a bike can go but a car can't... so my mental map is bad for driving.)

I have a couple people in my life who sorta look at my living car free as a "cute" thing i'm "trying out." - like when my brother decided he would only answer to the name Luke Skywalker in 1980.

With these people, whenever we make plans to meet up they start trying to figure out the logistics of getting me there. A conversation usually ensues:

Them: So you want me to pick you up?
Me: No I'll meet you there.
Them: What on your bike?!?
Me: Yeah.
Them: Honestly, it's fast for me to swing by once I get off the freeway, why don't I just pick you up?
Me: No it's not far. I'll bike it. Totally fine.
Them: Come on. I'll pick you up. It's settled.

But here's the kicker. I've noticed that if I give in to their awkward insistence that they pick me up, they later cite that example as an illustration of the inconvenience of car-free living. "Remember when we went to lunch and I had to pick you up first?"

It makes me want to scream. What am I supposed to do? Do I escalate the initial conversation into a fight with me flat out insisting to not accept a ride so that I can avoid the later guilt trip? Then I'll become some sort of militant biker in their minds.

That's why you don't accept the offer. Next time it happens politely thank them for their both their offer and concern. Explain to them that you rather ride then to have your acceptance held over your head later as validation of the superiority of the automobile society.

Sometimes my classmates go out for drinks/food after a night class. Since I ride to the class, someone usually offers me a lift to wherever we're going, and drops me off at my bike at the end of it. I was grateful, but always felt kind of uncomfortable at it, and got into the cycle of promising to bring my car the following week, offer them rides, etc.

So last week, instead of asking for a ride, I just rode home. This week, I seriously considered bringing the car so I'd be able to drive myself or offer a ride to someone else. However, at the last moment, I decided to just go with my bike. As it turned out, most people elected to just go straight home after the class, and we didn't end up going out. So taking my bike worked out. I got to enjoy the ride, which is by far my preferred mode of transport to class, I saved gas on the trip, and I put my lights to use.

I'm not sure what will happen next week, but I've decided that from now on, I'm not going to put myself under the stress of bringing a car just to fit in and be able to drive myself or offer rides. If I feel like going and can get a ride from someone, I'll go. But otherwise, I'll just plan on biking to class and biking back afterward. I don't like feeling obligated to others in this (or really any other) respect, and I didn't like feeling socially pressured to bring my car when I knew I preferred riding. For that matter, last week, some folks didn't go because they needed to get work done. In other words, they made a choice, and turned down the social occasion for something they valued more. And I'm learning that there's nothing wrong with that.

You shouldn't do what you don't want to do just to fit in. Decide what's important to you, and things tend to fall into place. At least, last night they did.

To be quite honest, Rowan, it feels like you are more than a bit hostile toward this guy. Do you have some sort of insecurity in regard to people who live a more independent life (without the dependence on required use of a vehicle and the purchase of gasoline?) than yourself? lol I apologize if I am being overly direct; perhaps I am mistaken - you do not know burban personally, yet you seemingly cannot resist making IMMATURE personal insults about his character? You do not enjoy the "simple" comment burban typed, although you do reply with a pretty simplistic answer lacking any knowledge of his living situation or his family life. I'm sure I'm not the only one that noticed burban's honest intention in creating this thread; your rude and knowledge - lacking statements about his personal life seem to be the only thing "poisoning" the environment for those who may have complex issues with bicycle commuting and are here requesting honest advice.