Utility Cycling - Utility: trailer or long bike ?

Hello everybody !

I'm planning to move in a non-urban environment in the middle term. Most of the people around me insist I will need a car (albeit a used one) to get by (groceries, homebuilding stock, emergencies), but I resist this idea. Since I found this Utility cycling forum, I know there exist options for a no car life (I was convinced it existed). A lot of inventive people doing a lot of things to steer them away from the CAR tentation (and all its related sins).

So this brings me to the point of this thread: trailer or long bike ? I need a comparison based on these factors:

a) Cargo capacity

b) Handling on the ride and before you get rolling (for the bike + trailer: I fear the jacknife effect...)

c) Resistance to bad roads (the roads are not bad as a matter of "being away from civilization", but just as short term politician thinking... but they are bad anyway...).

d) Ease of care and maintenance.

e) Flexibility: is it better to have a long bike dedicated to cargo and other bikes for other rides, or a reliable all-around bicycle + removable trailer.

I've read the "build your own" threads for both trailers and extracycle. Lots of neat ideas. I'm not able yet to enter that category of inventive people, not by a lack of motivation or intelligence, just because I don't have the space yet (living in a city appartment with WAYYY too much stock already...) and I still need to build my skill (and tools) set in bike mechanics (living on a real real real tight budget). But I long for this moment when I have a place (garage or basement) to dedicate to multiple fiddling and noodlings...

So the debate is open... please: no flame wars over the merits of your preferred method...

Thanks in advance to all who will answer.

b) Handling on the ride and before you get rolling (for the bike + trailer: I fear the jacknife effect...)One detail regarding this: a good hitch joint lets bike and trailer rotate independently in all directions.

Case in point: I've flipped a long (kayak) trailer to its side by cutting a corner too tightly. Once the bike and trailer were both lying on their side, I could not get them up again on my own. A passer-by helped, but otherwise I would have needed to try and disconnect the hitch (difficult with binding parts), then lift the trailer and bike on their respective wheels separately, then re-connect the hitch. Needless to say, I was blocking traffic. :twitchy:

A freely rotating joint would not have prevented the combination from flipping, but one person (me) could have lifted first one part and then the other back up.

--J

I guess I can say you were lucky to be in Finland... would have you blocked the traffic in North America with your contraption's failure, you'd have been passed on by angry motorists...

I would say that if you HAD to choose between the two, go with a trailer OVER the Xtracycle. But, in a perfect world you could have both, and I don't see why not.

The Xtracycle will give you the ability to carry normal stuff, items you don't plan on hauling, when you don't have a trailer.

The trailer will give you the ability to carry loads for those "go to town" hauls. Hauls that you know you are going to be carrying.

Jerry

If you plan to only have one bike and want to do road or mtb stuff, then a trailer and it is cheaper.

...So this brings me to the point of this thread: trailer or long bike ? I need a comparison based on these factors...
I haven't used either yet, so my opinions may not be worth much. But anyway-

The xtracycle setup gives additional cargo space over a regular bike, but it is a very odd shaped cargo space. It is NOT very convenient for carrying most large objects.

Xtracycles are derived from the European longbikes--and the main use of longbikes is to attach child seats to the longer rack areas. And that works nicely, because the kids' seat sits on the rack, and their legs hang down on the sides, and it's quick and convenient to use, and it makes sense.

A trailer that has a wide flat cargo area is far more practical in terms of what you can usefully strap on to it, and they can be fit onto almost all regular bicycles (though a rear disk brake can pose a problem for some side-hitch trailers).

One final point--one of the usual claimed "advantages" of an xtracycle-style bike is that the cargo capacity is "always there", unlike a trailer that may be elsewhere when you suddenly need it--but then again, a lot of the time,,,, you won't be needing it. Having a long cargo frame all the time only means that when you aren't using the cargo capacity, you're stuck pedaling around a longer heavier bike. ....Many of the same arguments that anti-car people make against Hummers can also be made against a xtracycye/longbike, compared to using a regular bike & trailer. An xtracycle is an overpriced solution that really doesn't offer a whole lot more cargo space.

The problem with most cargo trailers is that they tend to be expensive, as they are limited-run or essentially hand-made items. Child trailers are far more common and benefit from mass-prouction, costing a lot less. If you can possibly manage by using a converted child trailer, they can be had much cheaper than a cargo-specific model (especially if you get a used one).
~

As I said in another post.......
"Inspite of what others think ,IMO, it's almost impossible to beat the combo of a sturdy well loved
bike and a stout trailer. No single bike ,xtracycle included, will ever give as much pure unadulterated
versatility as a trailer/bike combo.

This combo allows one to pick and choose the "tool" needed for the day unlike any single arrangement
could ever do. Remember like anything else if your try to make one tool do the job of several you wind
up with a "jack of all trades and master of none". "

I haven't used either yet, so my opinions may not be worth much. But anyway-

The xtracycle setup gives additional cargo space over a regular bike, but it is a very odd shaped cargo space. It is NOT very convenient for carrying most large objects.

Xtracycles are derived from the European longbikes--and the main use of longbikes is to attach child seats to the longer rack areas. And that works nicely, because the kids' seat sits on the rack, and their legs hang down on the sides, and it's quick and convenient to use, and it makes sense.

A trailer that has a wide flat cargo area is far more practical in terms of what you can usefully strap on to it, and they can be fit onto almost all regular bicycles (though a rear disk brake can pose a problem for some side-hitch trailers).

One final point--one of the usual claimed "advantages" of an xtracycle-style bike is that the cargo capacity is "always there", unlike a trailer that may be elsewhere when you suddenly need it--but then again, a lot of the time,,,, you won't be needing it. Having a long cargo frame all the time only means that when you aren't using the cargo capacity, you're stuck pedaling around a longer heavier bike. ....Many of the same arguments that anti-car people make against Hummers can also be made against a xtracycye/longbike, compared to using a regular bike & trailer. An xtracycle is an overpriced solution that really doesn't offer a whole lot more cargo space.

The problem with most cargo trailers is that they tend to be expensive, as they are limited-run or essentially hand-made items. Child trailers are far more common and benefit from mass-prouction, costing a lot less. If you can possibly manage by using a converted child trailer, they can be had much cheaper than a cargo-specific model (especially if you get a used one).
~


As I said in another post.......
"Inspite of what others think ,IMO, it's almost impossible to beat the combo of a sturdy well loved
bike and a stout trailer. No single bike ,xtracycle included, will ever give as much pure unadulterated
versatility as a trailer/bike combo.

This combo allows one to pick and choose the "tool" needed for the day unlike any single arrangement
could ever do. Remember like anything else if your try to make one tool do the job of several you wind
up with a "jack of all trades and master of none". "

I totally agree with all the above and after experiencing both options I believe that the bike + trailer(s) combo is the best solution.

Did you guys ever watch 'The Thunderbirds'? well, my utility bike is 'Thunderbird 2'. That's the T'bird that can carry any one of a number of mission-specific pods. I hook up the mission-specific trailer, or even multiple trailers, road-train style, depending on the mission. That may be one of my cargo trailers, the kid trailer, or the trail-a-bike 3rd wheel with one of the trailers attached to the back of it. Now that I think of it, my bike is green, just like T'bird 2. :D

Also, as your cargo needs change over time (yes, they'll change) you can keep the trusty favorite bike and change your trailers, rather than having to change bikes.

I'd say trailer has the most utility with a few caveats. If you've got a good stand alone bike with a decent rack, that bike will handle most regular transportation and you can use the trailer for hauling big things. Your regular bike will probably be more fun to ride and definitely faster. And as I said, the trailer gives you a little more flexibility

There are some disadvantages though. I don't think trailers handle anywhere near as well as Xtracycles. I've found my Trek hybrid converted to Xtracycle to be way more fun to ride now than before the conversion. Xtracycles actually improve the handling of loaded bikes while trailers make them worse. This means you probably are going to want to take the trailer off when not in use. This leads to the other advantage of a cargo bikes: spontaneous shopping/picking stuff up. You don't have to plan ahead like you do with a trailer.

So, it comes down to your style of riding and what your expected needs are. If you are only going to need the extra storage once a week, I'd go trailer. If you need it all the time or need the option without thinking ahead, go cargo bike.

This all depends on your need and money you want to spend. I guess you are going toend up with many bikes, but you need to start somewhere. If you go extra, make sure it is not too heavy.

At the moment i like my longtail and use it alot becouse am almost always with the dog.

Yesterday I bought a secon hand child trailer for £25,- Spent approx £10,- on fuel to go there, but still cheap. Got rid of the seat and some exess metal today. It is 16" and there is alot of metal holding the wheels in place. I am thining of putting 20" wheels with the wheelchair hubs so I get bigger wheels and get rid of some more weight.

Trailer feels heavyer to ride than my longtail. Good thing is I can just slow down and tell the dog to jump in or out on his own. On the longtail I need to stop, tell him to climb inn and strap him up, but as I said I feel the longtail feels lighter to ride.

Remember if you go car-fre you could need a folder to take with you on bus and train or if you get a ride from somebody.

sorry to go off topic, but can we get a picture of the dog in the long bike please badmother? sounds awesome! :)

It's been shown somewhere in the homebuilt xtracycle thread...

Your answers to my question are all good, and deserve to be studied for all their respective merits.

It tends to put me in the "trailer" category, Cyclaholic having put the emphasis on flexibility. I kind of gnash my teeth at the tought of transforming a perfectly decent bike on its own into a long bike with an extension added on ("à la" xtracycle). The advantages of this perfectly decent bike could all be lost in the transformation, and there is no fast turning back to the initial state of the bike (say, about 4-6 quick releases, putting back a wheel in the back, and away you go...). Better then to build my own (with the help of some friends) with recuperated trash bikes or unexpensive finds in garage sales ... lots of nice ways have been exposed here... and I'm keeping records.

Badmother: A folding bike is necessary in a car free life ? Really ? (Off-topic'ing my own thread !)

And... I did not want to begin the thread with this factor, but, I live in a country with REAL winters (and some humid summers too !)... is it still possible to use a trailer/bike combo in the snow, sleet, slush and wind without too much suffering ?

It is 16" and there is alot of metal holding the wheels in place. I am thining of putting 20" wheels with the wheelchair hubs so I get bigger wheels and get rid of some more weight.Way off-topic, but where do you buy wheels with wheelchair hubs? My trailer needs replacements and so far I've found nothing. I've even contacted a couple of local wheelchair manufacturers, neither bothered to reply. Very busy season in the wheelchair business, I suppose :rolleyes:.

--J

And... I did not want to begin the thread with this factor, but, I live in a country with REAL winters (and some humid summers too !)... is it still possible to use a trailer/bike combo in the snow, sleet, slush and wind without too much suffering ?Define too much. For me, biking with studded tyres in fresh snow is hard work. I know pulling a trailer in fresh snow would seem hardcore to me, but then I've never tried it.

--J

This is the dog, did not want to post the picture, it is big.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk51/badmother-bikes/Roypsykkel2.jpg

Wheelchair hubs. I am not going to mke a joke about how to steel a wheelchair..:D
I dumpster dive two places. One of them has got things like this approx once a year. Also one is inherited from a friend in wheelchair. I`we been given the advice to go to the gow supply in the area (if disabeled you get these things from the gow). Some of the old things that they do not want to repair maybe you could get.

My personal opinion is that you are going to want a folder. If you can buy a cheap one buy it. If not wait until you feel "now I need one".

Using a trailer in snow you need to be really strong. Some trailers can use wheels of different sizes. On one like that you could put 28" or "26" in the winter (remember the heels on the old horse pulled wagons?) and then use 20" in the summer.

If heavy deep snow maybe go for skis on it?

Personally I would not try to use a trailer in the snow, I would use a longtail, only two wheels.

Do you have a dog that could pull for you? Lots of understimulated bored fat dogs around. He would be happy to work and see you are proud of him (that is if yoy`we got one..)

Approx £750,-
http://www.finn.no/finn/viewimage?finnkode=13329863&reference=3/133/298/63_881463407.jpg&adheading=Nordic+Cab+sykkelvogn+og+mye+mer&sid=xz4cbalBXUs777541&adTypeId=68&WT.svl=Hovedbilde


And approx £420,-
http://www.finn.no/finn/bap/object?finnkode=13374698&sid=xz4cbalBXUs116848&WT.svl=Bilde

So: if winter: eventually, long bike, other seasons: trailer. And in winter, not too perishable cargo (or find some insulated bags/panniers), as for summer (same here, maybe...). I guess I'm going to rely on the delivery services of the local supermarket (if I end up living where I plan to live, the closest local supermarket is 25 kilometres away from home). I need not be more catholic than the Pope (this is a bad translation of a french canadian way of saying not to exxagerate too much about anything).

Juha: As for my strenght, I have got limits. I weight about 130-140 pounds and I'm a massage therapist. In the course of my job, I use my body a lot (including carrying my massage chair on my left shoulder to and from the places where I give massages through the local transit system). In my non-work time, I already haul much heavy stuff by feet (on my back or in a hand trailer). Two months ago, I acquired a cheap old six speed mtb in excellent working order (save for the tires and tubes, which I replaced) with foldable panniers in the back, and I LOVE to do the groceries like this; it does not feel like trouble to me. The bike + accessories (tires, tubes, portable pump), 60 dollars total, are about to be paid with the savings on the groceries (running for the specials to eat well on a VERY THIGH budget is a job too...). So, trailer + bike combo IS indeed going to be hardcore.

For the folder bike, I still can't understand why I'd need one yet (I'm sorry, Badmother, I don't get it). Is it the famous "n + 1" rule in action ? (The number "N" of bikes you need is always "n + 1", "n" being the number of bikes you already own...)

For the bored dog pulling the load, I'm not there yet, but I keep the idea.

Thanks all for you replies... this helps a lot...

In snow you can use a BOB style single wheel trailer which would have the advantage of lower rolling resistance by running in the furrow cut by your bike's wheels... at least when going in a mostly straight line.

If you're hauling a trailer-worthy load in snow then, apart from being at least two orders of magnitude more hardcore than me :twitchy:, you're going to truly feel it no matter what you're riding and sufficiently low gearing is probably your first priority.

I've discovered you can carry an amazing amount of stuff with just a rear rack and two giant saddle bags. But, I've also used a "kid's trailer" for carrying stuff, including carrying a second bike to the repair shop. I've noticed that cars go around me by six feet when I'm pulling the kid's trailer...then I get a dirty look from the drivers when they look back and see I'm carrying "stuff" and not a kid...the driver's are thinking "I went six feet out of my way to avoid hitting a child, and all I was avoiding was hitting an elderly man".

I'm in Wisconsin, about as real as winter gets. I had studded tires on my bike but not my kiddie trailer, for several years. That trailer was just about the worst possible solution, but as I was hauling two kids I didn't have a lot of choice at the time. While I could shove it fairly well as a stroller, as a trailer the lowered front that made room for their feet acted like a snowplow and turned a normally heavy trailer into a snow anchor. If the snow was deeper than that front edge, even in drifts, it was impossible to pull. In wet slush the tires would get sideways and the weight of the trailer would pull me off balance. Drier conditions without much snow or on well plowed roads it handled ok, harder than summer but possible.

I have a TW-bents single wheel BOB clone now, and it has its own winter issues. The wheel is so much smaller that it becomes a plow in much shallower snow accumulation than the kiddie trailer did. It has a screen floor and open sides so it will also shave snow and add it to my cargo filling every available space in the trailer with extra weight. I have to use waterproof containers in the winter, or the dry bag it came with, due to the stowaway snow.

The TW-bents doesn't get away from me in the slush as often as the kiddie trailer did. It tracks better on not-so-well-plowed roads, allowing me to ride in the tracks that cars have carved. Overall, I find it more usable than the kiddie trailer was in winter. That said, I don't pull it often in snow/muck, it's enough work just to ride my bike in that mess.

I have numerous bikes, numerous paniers, a DIY longbike, and a few trailers.

I love the longbike in that it rides well, is very comfortable, and also serves an an excellent tow vehicle due to it's fairly low gearing and excellent stability.

But if I could only pick one I would have the trailer.

And... I did not want to begin the thread with this factor, but, I live in a country with REAL winters (and some humid summers too !)... is it still possible to use a trailer/bike combo in the snow, sleet, slush and wind without too much suffering ?

Trailer suck in the snow and especially slush. It is like dragging around a boat anchor that moves from side to side. I rode with one behind my Xtracycle this winter everyday with my puppy.

Longtails are nice because you never need to worry about not having space. Last Friday I dropped my two boys off at school on the way to work. On the way home stopped by a yard sale and purchase a table and a couple of other goodies. If you need more space, you can always pull a trailer.

And in winter, not too perishable cargo (or find some insulated bags/panniers)

In what universe would you need a way to protect perishables in winter? *boggles* Winter is when you use the outdoors for extra fridge space! I want stuff as *un* protected as possible then, so that it stays at a safe temperature.

Summer, I do fuss a little, but as long as the trip is reasonably short... say a half hour or less... it just doesn't matter. For longer trips, I would use insulated bags and icepacks.


For the folder bike, I still can't understand why I'd need one yet

An all too common (and bloody annoying) scenario for our household comes up on long trips. We'll need to go 150 miles or so to catch a plane or train. Easy enough, there's bus service that picks up about 2 miles away. Then at the other end of the trip, we're standing around in a strange city and we'd need to either rent a car or find some mass transit. (and in an awful lot of the US, there is no such thing as mass transit... if we're visiting my parents, there isn't)

Or if we're visiting friends, they'll often suggest heading to a restaurant or offer to drop us off at home. On a regular bike, we pretty much always have to say no. You're just not fitting 4 people, 2 full sized bikes and the usual stuff in a nice little fuel efficient car.

In both cases, a folding bike fits. Amtrack allows folding bikes as regular luggage, so doing combined bike/train tours gets very easy. And a folder fits in the trunk of even a very small car... and even a biggish folder can fly as the small sort of oversized luggage. I wouldn't class one as a need, but it would certainly be handy.

For me, the extracycle vs trailer thing is simple. Odds are, I can't carry an extracycle up and down my building's stairs reliably. Even a light extracycle is about 50lbs, and if that's not in a backpack, I'll be iffy on stairs. But I *know* I can carry a bike and then a trailer... takes two trips, but there's no way I'd fall. If we had ground level bike storage, it wouldn't much matter. Either one would do the job for ordinary large trips, and neither one would handle big furniture, construction materials or an acoustic drum kit :D. So in my situation, I'm best off with a trailer.

I have numerous bikes, numerous paniers, a DIY longbike, and a few trailers.

I love the longbike in that it rides well, is very comfortable, and also serves an an excellent tow vehicle due to it's fairly low gearing and excellent stability.

But if I could only pick one I would have the trailer.

+1

My Xtra is great for day to day use, but when I have heavy or large things to haul my flatbed trailer is the better of the two.

I have experience with neither, long bike or trailer. As much as I'd love to have a long bike, I believe the more practical of the two to be the trailer. Just my .02 cents.

In what universe would you need a way to protect perishables in winter? *boggles* Winter is when you use the outdoors for extra fridge space! I want stuff as *un* protected as possible then, so that it stays at a safe temperature.


Not off-topic'ing, but answering...

In normal ordinary winter cold (say, 0 to minus 10 centigrade), I would not worry on a short distance (least than an half hour worth of staying out of the supermarket, including packing). But a bit longer, and with a bit of chill factor, my tender vegetables and fruits will frost and turn to slush after thawing (been there, done that, shopping by feet on some very heavy cold winter). Liquids (milk, juice, soda, beer, even wine) will freeze too and get damaged (fine burgundies will be surely shot by that treatment), and I've more often than not left too long a beer bottle in a freezer that became a frozen gusher (you know what I mean: the cap is gone, and the gazeous ice is bursting from the bottleneck).

So that's why I worry about the winter cold vs the groceries.

Coolbox can alsobe used to keep things from being cold. Maybe you can buy frozen vegetables?

Wine, cucumber tomatoes maybe under your jacket?

IMHO the correct answer to the OP's question is long bike + trailer.

In my view, there is no disadvantage to an Xtracycle versus a traditional "utility" -oriented bike with panniers or baskets. Sure, the Xtracycle won't be as fun to ride (from a performance standpoint) as a pure MTB, road bike or fixed gear track bike, but then again any true utility cycle burdened with fenders, racks, bags, baskets, lights, etc. won't be either. These things are pickup trucks, not Ferraris, and there's nothing that will change that.

We have a Wike kiddie trailer that we use constantly. Also have a Paddleboy canoe trailer that I use for my 12' ~40lb. paddleboard. Would love to have a true flatbed trailer for pure cargo purposes. With a triple chainring on an X and a trailer, you can literally move a tremendous amount... easily comparable to a small car IMHO.

In fact when we go out on the weekends with the kids, we bring exactly the same stuff and go to exactly the same places when going on the X + Wike as we would if going in our minivan. Except we "burn fat not oil" and don't deal with parking, etc. Way superior for our lifestyle and situation.

Steve

Not off-topic'ing, but answering...

In normal ordinary winter cold (say, 0 to minus 10 centigrade), I would not worry on a short distance (least than an half hour worth of staying out of the supermarket, including packing). But a bit longer, and with a bit of chill factor, my tender vegetables and fruits will frost and turn to slush after thawing (been there, done that, shopping by feet on some very heavy cold winter). Liquids (milk, juice, soda, beer, even wine) will freeze too and get damaged (fine burgundies will be surely shot by that treatment), and I've more often than not left too long a beer bottle in a freezer that became a frozen gusher (you know what I mean: the cap is gone, and the gazeous ice is bursting from the bottleneck).

So that's why I worry about the winter cold vs the groceries.

Hrm, in winter I minimize the fresh veggies and fruits. It is out of season and (to me) doesn't taste as good. Frozen (again, to me) tastes better and then I don't need to worry about exposure. The only ones I buy fresh are hard root veggies, since they don't freeze easily at all.

Milk, I don't mind if it freezes. I'm much more sensitive to the taste change when it's overheated than overchilled. Juice and soda are not something we buy. And in winter, we go without alcohol rather often... I'm physically able to haul only so much, and the weight is better used for other food. My hope is to have some wine and beer cellared for this winter. If I can buy a case (or even two) in advance, that should last most of the winter.

Thanks to all who replied, I sort of get it now...

sapolin
I live in Denton Tx and tinker with all sorts of bikes and am currently building recumbent trikes. If you are seeking the absolute cheapest way to go, decide what your preference is, either a bike mod into an extracycle, or a trailer. My work is not elegant and "oh my God" beautiful, but it is functionable. I don't know where you live, and I make my stuff generally out of recycled cycles. If you draw up a design, I will make it (free), and ship it to you for shipping costs. I can't really advise you on which is better as both have quite different applications. If you are using your bike as your main transportation along with mass transit, a bike with good racks, and a trailer back up would seem to me the best choice as most transit don't favor or consider a long bike. On the other hand you still have to store the trailer. When the extracycle first came out it was a retrofit for a regular bike so that might be something to consider. At any rate if I can help let me know. This isn't a scam as we both get what we want, you; your transportation needs met, me; more experience in building something new. (I'm retired)