Classic & Vintage - Interest in C&V Build-off?

I find myself needing motivation to get working on a few projects that have been on the drawing board for much too long. There's nothing like a little friendly competition to get the wheels turning. Would there be any interest in doing a C&V build-off, similar to what is done annually on the Fixed (http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/contest/build/results/results.html) Gear (http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/contest/pathracer/index2.htm) Gallery (http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/contest/2008-opendesign/index2.html)?

I have some basic ideas of rules and a scoring system that we could flesh out more fully if there is interest. The budget restrictions would be very low with more weight given to creativity and style than expenditure. We'd need a panel of volunteer judges as well to review the entries. As for prizes, we could either do a buy-in and divide that money into 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place purses or (I personally think this would be interesting) we could each choose an interesting spare component of similar value from our stockpile and ship it to the winner.

If there's enough interest I can codify a more clear set of criteria and we can get the ball rolling, perhaps fixing the field of entrants over the next 2 weeks, and set Halloween as the entry deadline for completed projects?

I have some basic ideas of rules and a scoring system that we could flesh out more fully if there is interest. The budget restrictions would be very low with more weight given to creativity and style than expenditure.

Makes sense, but this can be manipulated - what if someone just got Ray Dobbin's Masi on a trade? A $4,000 bike on a $0 budget, unless you intend to base it on the cost of the trade item.

-Kurt

Makes sense, but this can be manipulated - what if someone just got Ray Dobbin's Masi on a trade? A $4,000 bike on a $0 budget, unless you intend to base it on the cost of the trade item.

-Kurt

Well, like the FGG contests this would be mostly rooted in the honor system, there's a good group of people here and the winnings will probably be small enough that there's little to be gained by cheating. I guess in the end it would be up to the judges. It's just supposed to be for fun and motivation to do something with those extra cheap bikes most of us have floating around. The real reward is in doing something creative and fun.

How much time would be alloted?

I like this idea a lot. My budget may not be up for participating, but I wouldn't mind being a judge.

I'm up for this, It would be good to build something up from the spart part collection

I'm game though I'd prefer it be done without a cash prize at the end. That makes the stakes too high, imo.

Neal

I am interested.....

I don't think the budget is a big deal. Mine would be low either way! But, regardless, the bike's build quality and creativity and style is being judged over the money spent, right?

Sounds like fun. Alas I don't have any projects in the works right now.

Well, I'm game nevertheless.

I would not mind a category that would cover CV (or near CV) re-purposed / re-conceptualized. I have a few older rigid mountain bikes that I have been kicking around some commuter/tourer/cruiser ideas, but haven't gotten up the gumption to actually do it.

I that way off base?

So would we need to supply a bare frame pic and a finished bike pic? Sounds awesome!!!!! I will kick ass at this...

Those savages over at the Rat Rod bike forum did one of these a while back too. It was great from the spectator standpoint and the participants seemed to have fun too.
I'd enter and shoot for the "Longest Past Deadline" prize.

I'm in.
There are a couple of interesting (to me, anyway) projects in process out in the barn.
Top

Sounds like fun. Alas I don't have any projects in the works right now.

That's ok you can finish one of my mine.

Sorry about my conspicuous absence from the thread yesterday, I've been busy as well as afflicted with a serious case of poison ivy that makes typing unpleasant. It seems like there is plenty of interest so let's get this ball rolling.

Welcome to the first ever:

Vélo Cheapo
Bicycle Build-Off

Wherein intrepid connoisseurs of all things bike shall compete against one another for Honour & Glory as well as Fun & Beer Money in a test of Wits & Skill to assemble the most beautiful, functional, classic, most cheeepest bicycle they are able.


Contest Rules & Regulations

Eligibility
If you are a regular member of BF, motivated to have a little fun in friendly competition with other members and build an awesome cheap bike, you are eligible. If you are petty, a sore loser, take yourself too seriously, or are otherwise not fun you are ineligible. Eligibility will be Self-Governed, no entrants, organizers, or judges will decide eligibility. It is the duty of any potential entrant to know if this isn't your kind of thing.

Dates & Deadlines
Registration closes at 11:59 PM CST October 1st
Completed entries are due by 11:59 PM CST November 1st

Registration
Builder's must submit their Screenname, Actual Name, and Address to me via email or PM. After your information and fee have been received each builder will be assigned a unique number. This number will be the only identifier associated with your build entry until after judging is complete to ensure no intentional or unintentional preferential judging.

There will be a $10 Non-Refundable entrance fee. If you enter and circumstances prevent you from completing your build your fee is nevertheless forfeit to the pool. Fees may be submitted via paypal or snail mail to an account TBA

Individual builder's may submit as many bicycles as they like, but each build must be registered separately with a separate fee.

Budget
The total build budget will be $149. This completely arbitrary dollar amount was chosen because it is the cost of a GMC Denali, a new department store road bike.

Accounting for costs:
All builder's will be required to submit with their completed entry an expense list detailing the cost of everything that went into the build.

These expenses include but are not limited to:
Frame & Fork
Components
Materials for anything you build yourself
Consumables (paint, shellac, etc)
Labor done by others for which you paid or traded something of specific value

Expenses do not include:
Overhead
Tools (If you must purchase any specifically for this build)
Shipping (To be fair to our members outside the country or those who live in out-of-the-way places)
Lubricants, soaps, polishes or other [I]normal maintenance consumables
Labor done by yourself

Entrants may feel free to account for a "by volume" consumable expense if it they so desire. For example, if a builder bought 2 cans of spray paint and used only 1.5 they are only responsible for the equivalent value of the used portion 1.5(total cost)

Entrants are each entitled to ONE and only one "freebie" which can be any item or other expense, which the builder actually received for free, but which is not a complete bicycle. This does not apply to new items given as gifts, nor can the "freebie" be used to negate the cost of any item for which you actually paid. The freebie may be applied towards an upgraded item for which there is no fair way to account for value. For example, if you replaced at some point a crankset with something newer, the value of the old cranks would not be equal to that of the new, but there is no other out-of-pocket cost associated with them. Trades are not freebies, unless the item which was traded away was free, a value must be calculated for the item received. Any component which normally comes in "pairs" may be counted as the single freebie. eg. shifters, calipers, etc. This does not apply to "systems". eg. brake levers & calipers, or both dérailleurs The ONLY exception to the "one freebie" rule is garbage finds. While not everyone has cycling buddies who will give them old parts, everyone has access to the trash, and repurposing someone else's waste is free game for all. If you found it (that means no one gave it to you) discarded somewhere, it's yours to use free of penalty.

All other items must be accounted for monetarily. If an item was purchased and you cannot recall the cost it is your responsibility to assign it a fair market value, based on similar items being sold elsewhere or that you yourself have purchased. No outrageous bargains here, if you can't remember what you paid for it, be fair in your evaluation of what it's worth. (This will be on the honour system, but be sure to make a note of items for which you assigned an FMV in your expense list)

Complete bike purchased for parts may be included in the expenses either as the total cost of the bike or an FMV for each item used, at the builder's discretion.

The expense area is the only real way to cheat since there is no documentation required outside your word. Every builder is on the honour system, don't cheat, this is just for fun and karma will eventually kick you in the ass if you do. Play clean!

Entries
Each builder will include in submission:

Photo documentation
An expense list
A narrative of the build process and what was done to ready the bike for submission

There are no limits on this, minimum or maximum, be creative and make your submission interesting to the judges.
Narratives may be submitted in the following file format: .pdf, .doc, .odt, .html
Photos must be submitted as JPEG images.

Judging
A panel of judges (TBD) will review all submissions anonymously and make their selections based on the following point system:

Style: 1-10
Creativity: 1-10
Functionality (perceived anyway): 1-10
Je ne sais quoi: Each judge will also have a total of 10 free points to give at their discretion to their favorite entrant(s) in any amount they choose. Ties for the top 3 places will be decided by a vote among judges.

Prizes
Aside from bragging rights, the total value of all entry fees received will be divided into 1st (1/2) 2nd (1/3) and 3rd (1/6) place purses to be distributed (minus any paypal fees incurred) to the podium finishers at the conclusion of judging. Any "best-of" or "honorary mention" prizes awarded at the judge's discretion will be for entertainment purposes only and do not include a prize.

Disclaimer
Few will enter, even fewer will win.
Bikeforums is in no way responsible for the outcome of this contest or legally liable for any money that changes hands. By entering you agree to abide by all rules and regulations, accept all judgments as final and fair, and you assume responsibility for ensuring the fairness of your own actions.
Entrants also waive all rights to their narratives and photos which may be reproduced and hosted off-site.

Question - what if you have piles of old parts hanging around already, that have already been paid for and amortized/depreciated? In other words - I have a bunch o' stuff that has no documentable "value", having been stripped long ago from otherwise junked bikes.

I have pretty much everything needed in parts bins to build a bike. Do I have to try to figure out what the value would be for everything I pull out and use?

Question - what if you have piles of old parts hanging around already, that have already been paid for and amortized/depreciated? In other words - I have a bunch o' stuff that has no documentable "value", having been stripped long ago from otherwise junked bikes.

I have pretty much everything needed in parts bins to build a bike. Do I have to try to figure out what the value would be for everything I pull out and use?

bigbossman,

I'm in the same boat that you are. I tried to design the rules in such a way that those members who will be building from scratch will have the same chance as those of us with huge stockpiles of parts. If you can assemble a bike from the parts you have that you feel could be purchased for less than $150 it shouldn't be too difficult to show that in a way acceptable to the panel of judges. I realize it's more of a hassle but I can't think of any other way to be fair. I do hope that this inconvenience won't keep you from entering, I'm excited to see what the great minds of C&V can turn out with limited resources.

Question - what if you have piles of old parts hanging around already, that have already been paid for and amortized/depreciated? In other words - I have a bunch o' stuff that has no documentable "value", having been stripped long ago from otherwise junked bikes.

I have pretty much everything needed in parts bins to build a bike. Do I have to try to figure out what the value would be for everything I pull out and use?
It would be a monumental PITA to try and tally it all up, and would kind of ruin the fun, imo. Just don't get out of hand and start throwing Campy Record components on it "out of your parts pile" and I'm sure no one will give you any flack.

Also, I am hereby volunteering to be a judge, since I'm too broke to participate.

Question - what if you have piles of old parts hanging around already, that have already been paid for and amortized/depreciated? In other words - I have a bunch o' stuff that has no documentable "value", having been stripped long ago from otherwise junked bikes.

I have pretty much everything needed in parts bins to build a bike. Do I have to try to figure out what the value would be for everything I pull out and use?

send me your parts bin, I'll sell them back to you. :roflmao2:

And I'll add $10 to the LiveStrong Foundation in the name of the winner.

It would be a monumental PITA to try and tally it all up, and would kind of ruin the fun, imo. Just don't get out of hand and start throwing Campy Record components on it "out of your parts pile" and I'm sure no one will give you any flack.

Anything I get that says "Campagnolo" on it either goes on one of my bikes or gets sold off on eBay. :D

I've got an old Viscount frameset that I received as a whole bike about 2 years ago, stripped for parts, and set aside. It is bare metal and needs to be prepped and rattle-canned, but it would make a pretty good single-speed methinks. I happened to grab some automotive spray paint that was on clearance at Walmart, so as it sits now I'd have about $10 or so in it for paint, primer, and clear-coat.

Hmmmmm........

It would be a monumental PITA to try and tally it all up, and would kind of ruin the fun, imo. Just don't get out of hand and start throwing Campy Record components on it "out of your parts pile" and I'm sure no one will give you any flack.

Also, I am hereby volunteering to be a judge, since I'm too broke to participate.

Rules is rules, anyone who feels they will ruin the fun should abstain. It won't be difficult to comply and as I said, it's the only realistic way to make it fair for everyone.

As for the judging, the chief judge and one panelist have already accepted, the third position is pending a response. They will be announced as soon as the last has confirmed.

Anything I get that says "Campagnolo" on it either goes on one of my bikes or gets sold off on eBay. :D

I've got an old Viscount frameset that I received as a whole bike about 2 years ago, stripped for parts, and set aside. It is bare metal and needs to be prepped and rattle-canned, but it would make a pretty good single-speed methinks. I happened to grab some automotive spray paint that was on clearance at Walmart, so as it sits now I'd have about $10 or so in it for paint, primer, and clear-coat.

Hmmmmm........

Shhhh, no teasers. You'll ruin the anticipation. ;) Also, you'll let me know what I have to do to beat you.

http://www.abikestore.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000002/rb_denali.jpg

This is the bike i'm gonna enter, game over.
;)

I haven't posted on this forum before, but I've been lurking for almost a month now. I might be able to compete and I'm very interested. I built up an old rb3 for about the same budget and I ride that every day, so I have a minimal amount of experience.

I have negative? equity in my bikes and parts.....in other words I have a ton of stuff that I can prove cost me -$ from flipping.

If I'm starting at -$500 does that mean I have $650 budget?

what if I buy a bike of CL for $75 leaving me with a $75 balance. Then I sell the parts of the CL bike for $75 getting back to my $150 balance but I still have the frameset.....?????

I have a bunch o' stuff that has no documentable "value",

I can vouch for that! :lol:

Well, there goes my idea of that $200 Rossin build...

...damn the cost of that Raleigh Alyeska!

-Kurt

I am assuming a dumpster bike is okay? I found a Raleigh Grand Prix a couple of months ago and it hasn't found a use yet, it sounds like it will fit the bill nicely, is that right?

edit: nevermind, I saw that dumpster finds were mentioned. I am thinking of turning it into a single-speed since the derailleur is shot

Since the GMC Denali is the 'budget setter' for this little contest, anyone else considering seeing what they can make of an old department store 10 speed? I have a lugged (in the saddest most banal sense of the word) Columbia that has been sitting for the past few weeks. Seemed to be destined for the recycle bin, but now I am thinking, maybe....?

So many potential projects and so little time. Maybe this indecision is why so many bikes sit in my garage undone.:rolleyes:

I have negative? equity in my bikes and parts.....in other words I have a ton of stuff that I can prove cost me -$ from flipping.

If I'm starting at -$500 does that mean I have $650 budget?

what if I buy a bike of CL for $75 leaving me with a $75 balance. Then I sell the parts of the CL bike for $75 getting back to my $150 balance but I still have the frameset.....?????

I began by putting a clause in the rules to prevent just this, but couldn't find a wording that I felt gave just the right amount of limits without being overly restrictive. I feel that the first case you mention violates the spirit if not the letter of the same rule that restricts bigbossman and I from counting all of our bin parts as "free." It just wouldn't be fair to anyone starting from scratch. However, I don't see a problem with the second case as anyone would have the same opportunity to buy a complete bike and sell whatever they weren't using to recoup some of the investment. The exception of course would be selling free or garbage find parts to boost one's budget. The rules state expressly you can't use your "freebie" to negate the expense of something for which you paid, and this would fall into that same category.

I never anticipated that you guys would work so hard to raise ethical dilemmas!

At any rate we have a panel of judges now, so I'm going to defer all further such questions to their wisdom and interpretation of the rules to prevent any unintentional bias in my favour.

Drum roll please

Without further adieu

Your panel of judges

She's short, she's lovable, she's got almost 20,000 posts

She's a lanky lass and one bad mod

She's:

http://www.bikeforums.net/image.php?u=39816&dateline=1203084701
East Hill

He's a runner turned cyclist

The man with the plan to collect every Centurion on the east coast

He's:

http://www.bikeforums.net/image.php?u=108582&dateline=1199922826
RobbieTunes

Last but not least

Hailing from the frozen north, he's got snow problems and sporty schwinns

Answering to a higher power

He's:

http://www.bikeforums.net/image.php?u=42162&dateline=1220716424&type=thumb
pastorbobnlnh

*APPLAUSE*

Please hold your bribes until after the show ;)

In addition to agreeing to be the judge of judges East Hill has also graciously agreed to accept the contest entry fees and just to sweeten the pot:

East Hill will be granting a red star to the victor or a person of their choosing should they already be a red star member.

Purevl wrote; "...Every builder is on the honour system, don't cheat, this is just for fun and karma will eventually kick you in the ass if you do. Play clean!"

This is the best rule for the entire process! Another way to look at it is; "Don't take yourself too seriously!"

Best of luck everyone and I do expect to see a few of my "re-gifted" dump find parts to show up on some of these builds.

So here's my challenge to all who are not building: Be willing to give a C&Ver the part he or she needs for their project. And to those building, see if there's an opportunity to give your low cost creation away (or another unneeded bike in the stable) after the contest!

Does painting/powder coating count against us? If so, there's going to be some really ratty rides. What if I buy a bike for less than $149 can I still enter it?

Does painting/powder coating count against us? If so, there's going to be some really ratty rides. What if I buy a bike for less than $149 can I still enter it?



expenses include but are not limited to:
Frame & Fork
Components
Materials for anything you build yourself
Consumables (paint, shellac, etc)
Labor done by others for which you paid or traded something of specific value



If you buy the paint and/or pay someone to apply it those costs count.

$149 is the maximum you may spend.

"If so, there's going to be some really ratty rides. "

Oh, you would be suprised what you can do with a spraycan:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Caferacernoc/bikes006.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk158/Caferacernoc/bikes005.jpg

All right, now that the ball is rolling, I will make this into a sticky a bit later, listing rules, etc.

Please, no bribing the judges unless you offer the same bribe to all three of us :) .

And it still won't get you anywhere ;) .

East Hill

All right, now that the ball is rolling, I will make this into a sticky a bit later, listing rules, etc.

Too many stickies - can we get rid of some? The Brooks thing for instance - I think it has run its' course....

And I'll add $10 to the LiveStrong Foundation in the name of the winner.

I'll add $10 in the name of the peleton dog who gets dropped and comes in DFL.

I will try to be totally subj,....er, objective. I think the best part will be the swapping.
Since shipping doesn't count, perhaps you could advise on what you swapped for what.

I promise to judge while sober. Female participants, no need to send photos.

And East Hill, I tried to get my flowers together in time for your deadline, but the geraniums just bloomed again, and I was setting the photos up when my wife came home and said, "what in the heck are you doing?" so I had to put everything back. :D:D...............heh, heh......