Pacific Northwest - Another bike rider killed by truck in Sumner

Doesn't say much about the incident:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008187898_apwabikefatal.html?syndication=rss

yikes

That's not much info, is it?

Check the Tacoma News Tribune site for a bit more info. This was on Stewart Rd and its an East West road across the valley on the northern edge of Sumner. I posted on the Commuter forum about this. I'm not sure if the Trib has updated since I haven't checked their site this afternoon but I would think they will have more info soon. I cross this road on my way to work and its really a mess that time of day, lots of trucks and traffic that heads up the Lake Tapps parkway which connects to Stewart. This road needs to be widened as a soon as possible. Not a good one to ride on for sure.

Boy thats 2 cycling fatalities within 5 miles of my house and i have ridden on both of those roads. 8th street in Sumner is an absolute nightmare to ride on. All those Lakeland hills people in a hurry to go nowhere, give you no break when they pass. Why is it that all we are doing is either riding to stay in shape or to commute somewhere, and people in cars act like we are doing them wrong. !#$%^&@$ CARS.

Boy thats 2 cycling fatalities within 5 miles of my house and i have ridden on both of those roads. 8th street in Sumner is an absolute nightmare to ride on. All those Lakeland hills people in a hurry to go nowhere, give you no break when they pass. Why is it that all we are doing is either riding to stay in shape or to commute somewhere, and people in cars act like we are doing them wrong. !#$%^&@$ CARS.

There is a mindset in this country that if its not a car or truck it doesn't belong on the road. Its that whole idea of cyclists don't pay taxes and I got that argument from my know it all brother in law a while back and I took him out to my driveway and asked him what did he think the two things setting there with four wheels and a gas powered engine were, a mirage. Kind of shut him up and besides all the property taxes I pay and sales tax and all the myriad of fees and such. I told him if thats not paying taxes for roads I would kiss his backside on the middle of Meridian street and give him two weeks to sell tickets. It shut him up for a while and then I got the argument that bikes can't do the speed limit and hold up traffic. I asked him when was the last time he got held up in traffic for a bicycle and for how long? Did it make him late by 30 seconds and besides the speed limit is the maximum posted speed not the minimum. I finally got him to admit that I might have a point. Thats a miracle in itself and the best I'll ever get from him.

Stringbreaker, I think I work with your brother in law. At least they sound the same.

If i am not mistaken, everytime i fill up my gas cans for my lawn mower or my boat i pay road tax, and i bet some of the sales tax they nail us on for bike supplies and parts probably goes to road tax. I just love arguing with simple minded people about bikes and how they don't belong on the road. Lets all be safe out there and keep the rubber side down. Jim

I'm a cyclist and one of my favorite parts of the whole sport is pissing off motorists. But you people are sticking your heads in the sand if you think that bicycles pay taxes. Taxes paid by motor vehicle users pay for the roads that both motor vehicles and bicycles use. Bikes are just using the roads built by and for motor vehicles. There is virtually no tax revenue extracted from bicycles except for a miniscule amount of sales tax, which doesn't go specifically for roads. If we had to ride on roads paid for by cyclists, we'd all have to ride mountain bikes.

The only people who get pissed at me are driving truly crap vehicles, usually lifted trucks with ricer taillights or 20 year old beater minivans with missing windows. I never have average people in average cars mad at me, nor high-end cars, not sports cars, not motorcyclists. Always something truly miserable to drive. So it's fun to tell them that I'd rather ride my bike than drive their piece of crap :) Though I will admit I very rarely have anyone so much as honk, most people seem pretty relaxed about me riding on the road.

Although the one exception to this crap car rule is someone in their mid-20s (I'm 27) leaning out the window of a very shiny brand-new Civic sedan to yell and scream at me for no apparent reason. I stood up on my pedals and unleashed a series of profanity-laced insults that involved something about if they had a faster car it wouldn't be so hard to pass someone on a bicycle and on and on. The passenger was still leaning out his window so he caught every word of it.

Best part was when I was catching up with them at a stoplight, the 3 tough 20-somethings in the car all rolled up their windows in fear of the weenie on a bicycle. I stopped and said my piece anyway, and rolled on my way. But you can bet I kept a watchful eye and ear for when they passed me later on the highway -- you never know what people will do.

I'm a cyclist and one of my favorite parts of the whole sport is pissing off motorists.

Isn't it great to know we have individuals like you out there. So if we see a motorist going out of his way to scare the crap out of a non deserving cyclist ... there is a good chance that motorist recently came across you and was just out for revenge against anyone using pedals ???

I'm a cyclist and one of my favorite parts of the whole sport is pissing off motorists. But you people are sticking your heads in the sand if you think that bicycles pay taxes. Taxes paid by motor vehicle users pay for the roads that both motor vehicles and bicycles use. Bikes are just using the roads built by and for motor vehicles. There is virtually no tax revenue extracted from bicycles except for a miniscule amount of sales tax, which doesn't go specifically for roads. If we had to ride on roads paid for by cyclists, we'd all have to ride mountain bikes.

So we don't buy any other consumer goods or buy gasoline or renew the tabs for our cars (most of us have cars) or pay property tax and all the other fees that go along with living in our society. You say you are a cyclist but to me you are as big a knucklehead as my aformentioned brother in law.

But the taxes bicycles pay do not pay their share compared to what cars and trucks pay.

But the taxes bicycles pay do not pay their share compared to what cars and trucks pay.

This old chestnut has been debunked numerous times.

Gas taxes pay for a fraction of roadway costs and are primarily aimed at highways.

Most roadway funding comes from general fund sources - in Washington, that means property and sales taxes. These taxes are paid by citizens whether they own/drive a car or not.

The bulk of local roadway costs, excluding mega projects that are almost exclusively for motor vehicles (like the viaduct), go to repairing the extensive damage caused specifically by motor vehicles.

The fact is that citizens who choose not to drive - cyclists included - subsidize those who do.

Seattle shaun thank you for the intelligent post.

But the taxes bicycles pay do not pay their share compared to what cars and trucks pay.

It's pretty much irrelevant, though, if you own and drive a car as well as a bicycle. Odds are much of your cycling is recreation, so it's not like you're replacing a gas-tax-paying trip with a cycling trip.

If you replace a significant amount of driving with cycling (ie, commuting, or whatever) feel free to ignore the above and defer to SeattleShaun's post :)

But you people are sticking your heads in the sand if you think that bicycles pay taxes. Taxes paid by motor vehicle users pay for the roads that both motor vehicles and bicycles use. Bikes are just using the roads built by and for motor vehicles. There is virtually no tax revenue extracted from bicycles except for a miniscule amount of sales tax, which doesn't go specifically for roads. If we had to ride on roads paid for by cyclists, we'd all have to ride mountain bikes.

BS, local streets are funded in all sorts of ways OTHER THAN gas taxes. If you own property or pay rent you pay for local roads. If you pay sales tax you pay for local roads. If you own a car or a truck you pay for local roads. Take your own effin' head out of the sand, dickwad.

Take your own effin' head out of the sand, dickwad.

Classy. I'd like to change my vote to "agree with the guy who is wrong but isn't an ass"

sorry, but any self-professed 'sport' cyclist who buys into that BS about road taxes deserves to be called a dickwad

:)

But the taxes bicycles pay do not pay their share compared to what cars and trucks pay.

what about sidewalks? do pedestrians owe something to drivers for those too?

either way, it doesn't matter who pays for the roads; they're PUBLIC!!

i'm car free, and have no guilt using public roads, nor should i.

Of course roads are public. You can drive, ride a bike, walk, or ride a horse, but bikes are not really paying their way. It is amazing how blind cyclists are to this fact.

It is amazing how blind cyclists are to this fact.

What's actually amazing is how some self professed cyclists are so incredibly willfully ignorant.

Google is your friend. If you are really interested, cruise on over to the WSDOT web site. They actually list projects fundedby gas taxes with a county by county breakdown.
I don't know about you, but I don't ride my bike on the widened I 405. I do, OTOH, pay property taxes that fund most of the roadway work here in Seattle...

There are numerous studies available on this topic from around the US - I've referenced a number of same over at the Cascade forum over the last few years.

You do realizethat there were roads before there were cars or gas taxes, no? Are you aware that the first smooth paved roads were created for bicyclists?

Tyr to spin it however you'd like - the fact is that folks who choose not to drive subsidize those that do...

If everyone were to truly pay their fair share, people who roll on studded tires in the winter should be paying $1.00 per day on studs per 100 lbs. vehicle weight...

BoooHooo! Freeloadin' cyclists...

Of course roads are public. You can drive, ride a bike, walk, or ride a horse, but bikes are not really paying their way. It is amazing how blind cyclists are to this fact.

Are you really this dim or are you just a troll

You are a bit clueless if you believe that roads are self-sustained based on usage taxes (ie. vehicle tax, fuel tax, plates, registration, etc.). All sorts of general funds are used to pay for roads and maintenance. Therefore if you pay any taxes, you are paying for the roads. End of discussion.

Secondly, how do you account for the fact that many roads were originally built before the advent of motorized vehicles?

Thirdly, if it were not for motorized vehicles, roads would virtually never require maintenance.


I'm a cyclist and one of my favorite parts of the whole sport is pissing off motorists. But you people are sticking your heads in the sand if you think that bicycles pay taxes. Taxes paid by motor vehicle users pay for the roads that both motor vehicles and bicycles use. Bikes are just using the roads built by and for motor vehicles. There is virtually no tax revenue extracted from bicycles except for a miniscule amount of sales tax, which doesn't go specifically for roads. If we had to ride on roads paid for by cyclists, we'd all have to ride mountain bikes.

Most of today's gas taxes (including all of the Nickel and TPA bumps that were passed in the last few years) are for Highway Construction. There are also funds from the gas tax that are passed along to local governments for roadway improvements and construction. A large chunk of the maintenance funds are from general funds (property tax, sales tax, etc.)

So if you really wanna get down to it, while bicyclists don't necessarily help with the costs to build the roads, they do help contribute to maintain them.

Just Think How Much Money For Road Maintenance Would Be Saved If Everyone Rode Bikes. My Area You Have Farm Equipmentall Over The Road. If You Can Runa D9 Across The Road I Can Dang Sure Ride My Bike On It.

I got hit twice this summer.Trash both times.I don't think they cared about who paid for what.It looked like they lived off the state.In parkland they built a bike lane and never swept it.so much glass and debri it was unusable.I was the jerk not using my lane.who do I ***** about that to?

The important thing to note is that lots of things are taxed. The taxes are no longer yours when they go to the government. The government can spend the money on pretty much anything or give to petty much anybody. The argument about gas taxes for roads and that this may mean someone has some special purchased right is just a plain all out misunderstanding. We pay gas taxes because there is a law that we pay gas taxes. The legislature (or city council or whatever) decides to build roads with taxes of all types. The legislature decides who can use the roads and under what conditions. So in the end it makes no sense to even argue the point of who has the right to the road outside of the legal rights as provided by the laws. so the correct response it the argument is, what do taxes have to do with it?

I'm a cyclist and one of my favorite parts of the whole sport is pissing off motorists. But you people are sticking your heads in the sand if you think that bicycles pay taxes. Taxes paid by motor vehicle users pay for the roads that both motor vehicles and bicycles use. Bikes are just using the roads built by and for motor vehicles. There is virtually no tax revenue extracted from bicycles except for a miniscule amount of sales tax, which doesn't go specifically for roads. If we had to ride on roads paid for by cyclists, we'd all have to ride mountain bikes.This is SUCH a lame argument, directly opposite of what the Washington laws says. Pitiful that so many believe this crap.

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