Living Car Free - Live Like the Amish!

I think that some urban, college educated, Woodstock wannabes romanticize the "simple life" of the Amish and dream about joining and successfully living long term with a tightly integrated, mutually supportive community of dedicated and hardworking converts. IMO they are more like to end up deciding that maybe some of the conveniences of modern urban life are essential for their own contentment and wake up; or they live their dream in squalid conditions until they wake up or wither away.
To adopt an Amish or Old Order Mennonite lifestyle without the modern conveniences will also require adopting a similar form of community, something North American society has abandoned. Without a lot of neigbourly cooperation and assistance, it would be difficult if not impossible to live in that way. For the Amish and Old Order Mennonites, the community is distinctly religious in nature and the church is a huge part of their identity. Mainstream North American society is a lot more mobile and a lot less connected to community.

My own background is Mennonite, although not Old Order. While we have accepted modern conveniences, we also have retained the sense of community and the connection with the church. For us, it's a little less rigid than for the Amish, but it's still prominent. Those who have not grown up in such an environment will not understand it.

Sorry, but you're very ignorant. :(

The article refers to rare genetic disorders that have absolutely nothing to do with the Amish lifestyle.

Actually, the word "bigot" comes to mind.

I do agree with Sirrus Rider that the genetic disorders are more to do with the closed community and re-meeting of genes from generations previous. But this dilemma is not unique to the Amish.

No. But I think that some urban, college educated, Woodstock wannabes romanticize the "simple life" of the Amish and dream about joining and successfully living long term with a tightly integrated, mutually supportive community of dedicated and hardworking converts. IMO they are more like to end up deciding that maybe some of the conveniences of modern urban life are essential for their own contentment and wake up; or they live their dream in squalid conditions until they wake up or wither away.

BTW, willingness/eagerness to substitute a bicycle for an automobile will only go so far in maintaining a simple lifestyle.

Ah, yes, the tragic tale of the potato-eating pseudo-Amish, withering away in Burlington, Iowa. They've foolishly bartered their college degrees for a life of bliss and squalor. Thank heaven they have a tireless advocate like ILTB to air their plight to the nation, while also showing them the error of their ways.

You, sir, are a saint!

:rolleyes:

Actually, the word "bigot" comes to mind.

I do agree with Sirrus Rider that the genetic disorders are more to do with the closed community and re-meeting of genes from generations previous. But this dilemma is not unique to the Amish.

Why do you and SR say this? As far as I know, the Amish don't marry their cousins or any such thing. I don't think they're any more interbred than the Hawaiians or Icelanders, are they?

GeneticFlea, if I was touring in North America and wanted to meet some of you... well, how receptive are you to meeting with others within your communities, and especially "non-believers" like me?

I'm not suggesting I am about to run out and arrange such a trip, but Machka and I have been discussing some of our future adventures on the East Coast of North America, and across to the mid-West again, and I've flagged that the Amish or Mennonite communities and their people are something I would like to experience.

Rowan, at least on the basis of talking in a friendly manner, you'll have no difficulties with the Amish. I talk with Amish folks on the Greyhound and Indian Trails buses that they (and I) ride very often. They're like anybody else--some like to talk with strangers and some don't. I never asked them nosey questions, just talked about the trip and the weather and so on.

Many Amish people are very sophisticated and aware of conditions in the country and the world. One younger Amish guy asked the bus driver very astute technical questions about the bus--that is, he asked about the technology of the bus itself, and also inquired about the administrative and financial aspects of running a bus company. with a good understanding of energy issues and the national economy.

The Amish around here don't own or operate automobiles but they ride in cars and especially buses. They don't use electricity in their homes or farms, but they use power equipment in their industries. They won't have phones in the house, but one Amish neighbor of my friend had a phone hanging on a tree in the front yard. :D

The essential point is that despite perceptions of their lifestyle from the outside, they are far from being unintelligent, and that is the mistake some people make...

As to the other issue, Roody, if you read the article that cs1 linked to, it did state quite clearly that the issues occurring with mental health among young Amish seem to be linked back to their parents being related four or five or further generations ago. The article actually is well worth reading in full, it's two pages and it's easy to miss the second because the first page seems to pause at an ending.

It's an issue recognised within the Amish communities, it seems. However, also noteworthy is that these people rely on themselves to provide facilities to support the offspring and their families

I was not highlighting the mental health issues in the same terms as our co-poster, but rather to indicate that the Amish are not the only "closed" community to suffer from these issues. Islanders (western, Oceanic or otherwise) and native communities seem to be as much at risk if they wish to retain their genetic purity.

One might argue quite logically that the age of oil and the ability of people to travel easily between regions, countries and continents has expanded the gene pools to avoid genetic clashes.

However, one also might argue that we are all related in the context of the original being that inhabited the earth and started the human race.

The essential point is that despite perceptions of their lifestyle from the outside, they are far from being unintelligent, and that is the mistake some people make...

As to the other issue, Roody, if you read the article that cs1 linked to, it did state quite clearly that the issues occurring with mental health among young Amish seem to be linked back to their parents being related four or five or further generations ago. The article actually is well worth reading in full, it's two pages and it's easy to miss the second because the first page seems to pause at an ending.

It's an issue recognised within the Amish communities, it seems. However, also noteworthy is that these people rely on themselves to provide facilities to support the offspring and their families

I was not highlighting the mental health issues in the same terms as our co-poster, but rather to indicate that the Amish are not the only "closed" community to suffer from these issues. Islanders (western, Oceanic or otherwise) and native communities seem to be as much at risk if they wish to retain their genetic purity.

One might argue quite logically that the age of oil and the ability of people to travel easily between regions, countries and continents has expanded the gene pools to avoid genetic clashes.

However, one also might argue that we are all related in the context of the original being that inhabited the earth and started the human race.

Thanks for the explanation, Rowan. Unfortunately, I think there are many people who mistakenly believe that the Amish are some kind of inbred backwoods morons. I guess the issue isn't that they marry close relatives, because they don't; it's that they're all descended from a fairly small number of ancestors

I know that genetec scientists have been studying the Amish (as well as Hawaiians and Icelanders) for many years because they're both a relatively homogenous population and inclined to particiapte in scientific research. (Of course, as one schizophrenia researcher told me, there are also other advantages to doing research in Hawaii rather than Ohio or Iceland.)

Ah, yes, the tragic tale of the potato-eating pseudo-Amish, withering away in Burlington, Iowa. They've foolishly bartered their college degrees for a life of bliss and squalor. Thank heaven they have a tireless advocate like ILTB to air their plight to the nation, while also showing them the error of their ways.

You, sir, are a saint!

:rolleyes:

Good 'ol Roody.:thumb: You ask me a specific question about my opinion and get a specific, to the point answer; my reply doesn't match the "Roody approved correct" answer so you reply with a "Roody approved smirk" and sneering post. Ah Roody, you are a poster boy for this list. :thumb:

Another set of colonies that comes to mind are the Amana Colonies (http://www.amanacolonies.org/) in Iowa. What it all boils down to is that it is going to take Communities of like minded people working together. The lone individual is going to have a rough go of it, ditto the me first prima dona types as well as those that refuse to do anything but hold their hands out.

Aaron:)

Good 'ol Roody.:thumb: You ask me a specific question about my opinion and get a specific, to the point answer; my reply doesn't match the "Roody approved correct" answer so you reply with a "Roody approved smirk" and sneering post. Ah Roody, you are a poster boy for this list. :thumb:

Nobody said being a saint would be easy. Keep up the great work! The potato eaters are counting on you.
:thumb:

Do you really wnt to have a serious discussion of this topic? Or is this just another example of your own sneering smirkiness, a dig at people who admire the Amish-even if they're so far unable to completely emulate their communities and way of life?

I think the Amish are great role models and teachers as we try to change some aspects of our own communities and rebuild our greed-based economic system. If you really are interested in this topic, I suggest that you read Deep Economy by Bill McKibben.




The bestselling author of The End of Nature issues an impassioned call to arms for an economy that creates community and ennobles our lives.



In this powerful and provocative manifesto, Bill McKibben offers the biggest challenge in a generation to the prevailing view of our economy. For the first time in human history, he observes, "more" is no longer synonymous with "better"—indeed, for many of us, they have become almost opposites. McKibben puts forward a new way to think about the things we buy, the food we eat, the energy we use, and the money that pays for it all. Our purchases, he says, need not be at odds with the things we truly value.

McKibben's animating idea is that we need to move beyond "growth" as the paramount economic ideal and pursue prosperity in a more local direction, with cities, suburbs, and regions producing more of their own food, generating more of their own energy, and even creating more of their own culture and entertainment....


Read more... (http://www.billmckibben.com/deep-economy.html)

Although McKibben doesn't mention the Amish by name, it appears that they are a good illustration of his ideas,

Many Americans are descended from church congregations who pioneered and migrated together in the 17th-19th centuries. It was only in the 20th century that we developed the culture of the unconnected nuclear family.

"Too many cousins, no one to marry" was a common reason for family groups to pull up stakes and move to a new location.

Do you really wnt to have a serious discussion of this topic? ...
I think the Amish are great role models and teachers as we try to change some aspects of our own communities and rebuild our greed-based economic system. If you really are interested in this topic, I suggest that you read Deep Economy by Bill McKibben.
You were doing fine with the bolded text above; and went off your well worn ideological cliff of assuming that those who are car free/car lite (or would like to be) are also members of the tight little circle of your PC version of "we" who share your economic, sociological, and political views. Or feel that discussion of your political/sociological/economic ideology is germane to Bike Forum's "Living Car Free."

Another set of colonies that comes to mind are the Amana Colonies (http://www.amanacolonies.org/) in Iowa. What it all boils down to is that it is going to take Communities of like minded people working together. The lone individual is going to have a rough go of it, ditto the me first prima dona types as well as those that refuse to do anything but hold their hands out.
It's going to take a radical change in attitudes for people to return to a community-based society. The 20th century in North America has been a move away from community structure and into something much more mobile. We may see a new direction in the years to come, but I doubt we'll see a reversal of what has happened.

You were doing fine with the bolded text above; and went off your well worn ideological cliff of assuming that those who are car free/car lite (or would like to be) are also members of the tight little circle of your PC version of "we" who share your economic, sociological, and political views. Or feel that discussion of your political/sociological/economic ideology is germane to Bike Forum's "Living Car Free."

Your own trick is to always deride those you disagree with as members of some imagined clique. If you disagree with me, talk to me. Try dialogue instead of diatribe. Personally, I don't expect anybody will agree or disagree with me. Each discussion brings what it brings.

As for this discussion not being germane, I have never known you to participate in the many discussions here (started by myself and many other members) that deal directly with bicycling. Obviously, you're just as interested in the social and political topics as I am, or you would not participate so regularly.

It's going to take a radical change in attitudes for people to return to a community-based society. The 20th century in North America has been a move away from community structure and into something much more mobile. We may see a new direction in the years to come, but I doubt we'll see a reversal of what has happened.

For the sake of argument, I'm going to say that there must be some value in the current society, or it would not continue. What is it that people like about a society that seems individualistic, acquisitive, centralized and mobile?

Why should people change something that works for them on some level?

For the sake of argument, I'm going to say that there must be some value in the current society, or it would not continue.

I agree with you. When the lifestyle of an earlier era is touted as a model, it's easy to forget the reasons for the change. Those who see the benefits of the Amish way of life for example would do well to consider the advantages and disadvantages to such a society.

....Those who see the benefits of the Amish way of life for example would do well to consider the advantages and disadvantages to such a society.


After some short endeavors, I have lost just about every romanticized notion of living a simple life completely or nearly devoid of today's technology. Change can be a good thing, especially after listening to some of the stories my parents, grandparents and great grandparents have told me.

I like the idea of picking and choosing the things I like out of both the modern and the "Amish" ways of life.


dynodonn ... what were some of the things you tried in your short endeavors?

.....dynodonn ... what were some of the things you tried in your short endeavors?

Living out in the wilderness for weeks at a time during my youth, hunting and gathering to supplement what food supply that I brought in, building one's own shelter, fire, doing whatever necessary day to day functions during my time in the wilderness.

i like the idea of picking and choosing the things i like out of both the modern and the "amish" ways of life.


Dynodonn ... What were some of the things you tried in your short endeavors?


ftw

&

+1,000 :)

I like the idea of picking and choosing the things I like out of both the modern and the "Amish" ways of life.


dynodonn ... what were some of the things you tried in your short endeavors?

Bingo...My feeling exactly. I don't think any of us are saying that we should regress as far as to live like the Amish, but we can certainly learn from them and use it to our advantage. We have become to decentralized and depend on technology to be the answer to everything. However technology has it's limitations, somewhere along the way we will have to reconnect as communities and neighbors. There are also quite a few of us that still have some of the manual skill set that may be required in the future when fuel becomes precious enough that it will not be wasted on things like hauling oranges from CA to NC and we will need to produce more of our foods on a local level. Big factory farming is energy intensive, smaller farms, properly managed can be much more energy friendly, but will also be a bit more labor intensive. I believe Rowan pointed out a while back, wondering just how many modern people would be willing to do manual labor if they really had to, guess we are going to find out.

Aaron:)

I believe Rowan pointed out a while back, wondering just how many modern people would be willing to do manual labor if they really had to, guess we are going to find out.


It can be hard to get into the habit of manual labor. For example, when I have to rake the leaves, I dread it a little and want to put it off. But when I actually start raking them, I very much enjoy the task. The same could be siad about a bike ride to a distqnt store.

I wonder if this will be one experience people have when/if we evolve to a more human-powered economy. Now we're dreading it, but when it happens we might find it to be a better life.

What is it that people like about a society that seems individualistic, acquisitive, centralized and mobile?
Fundamentally, I think we like to be able to pick our own friends, and to have the privilege of telling nosy neighbors to mind their own business.

It can be hard to get into the habit of manual labor. For example, when I have to rake the leaves, I dread it a little and want to put it off. But when I actually start raking them, I very much enjoy the task. The same could be siad about a bike ride to a distqnt store.

I wonder if this will be one experience people have when/if we evolve to a more human-powered economy. Now we're dreading it, but when it happens we might find it to be a better life.

We will most likely be healthier when we (societal we) get out from behind desks and steering wheels:lol: My job is pretty physical so I don't suffer as much as some of my less active associates that spend their time in the office. Company tried to corral me in the central office a few years back...I gave them an ultimatium...in return I ended up in the field where I prefer to be...but with a laptop and an aircard :roflmao2:

Aaron:)

Fundamentally, I think we like to be able to pick our own friends, and to have the privilege of telling nosy neighbors to mind their own business.

Yes, I agree that's a big part of it. Privacy is precious.

And we acquire things in order to have higher status, rather than because we really need them. (Like cars have higher status than bikes--even for people who live in Manhattan, where cars are very impractical).

We value mobility because we equate it with freedom. (People value cars over bikes for this reason also.)

Well I put my old Raleigh to work today- I did some grocery shopping with it. I had three paper grocery sacks full of groceries, two in the rear baskets and one in the front. Here's a picture of the bike (sorry, the groceries weren't there when I took the pic):

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e341/Doohickie/Bicycle08/Picture165.jpg

Apparently I didn't tighten all the screws on the baskets, because halfway home, one of the struts on the front basket came loose and fell down. It made for a dicey ride home since I had two gallons of milk in that basket. Every time I hit a bump or turned, the basket started wig-wagging around and steering my handlebars for me! I made it home okay and replaced the screw and nut.

Well I put my old Raleigh to work today- I did some grocery shopping with it. I had three paper grocery sacks full of groceries, two in the rear baskets and one in the front. Here's a picture of the bike (sorry, the groceries weren't there when I took the pic):
Very nice bike! Is that a DL-1?Though it may not be suitable for moving a piano up a mountain side, that is my idea of a bike built for utility from the ground up.
FWIW I used the trailer combination (pictured on a previous day can return run) to bring back 5 miles from Walmart 12 2-liter bottles of soda pop, 2 1/2 gallon jugs of cranberry juice, 2 pounds of cheese, a pound of salami, and a 25 pound bag of cat litter. Later today I used the cruiser to bring back 1 1/2 miles from Hy Vee Supermarket a gallon of milk, 4 pounds of yogurt, a box of crackers and 2 cans of fruit, and 3 bottles of condiments.

Very nice bike! Is that a DL-1?Though it may not be suitable for moving a piano up a mountain side, that is my idea of a bike built for utility from the ground up.
FWIW I used the trailer combination (pictured on a previous day can return run) to bring back 5 miles from Walmart 12 2-liter bottles of soda pop, 2 1/2 gallon jugs of cranberry juice, 2 pounds of cheese, a pound of salami, and a 25 pound bag of cat litter. Later today I used the cruiser to bring back 1 1/2 miles from Hy Vee Supermarket a gallon of milk, 4 pounds of yogurt, a box of crackers and 2 cans of fruit, and 3 bottles of condiments.

Is that water pipe insulation you're using for grips?

Very nice bike! Is that a DL-1?

Yep, a 1966 (I guess, based on the 65 12 hub date) DL-1 Tourist (or so the nice folks around here tell me).


Is that water pipe insulation you're using for grips?

:lol:

Is that water pipe insulation you're using for grips?

Yes. $1 for 10 feet. Works great.

Yes. $1 for 10 feet. Works great.

How do you attach it?

How do you attach it?

1" ID insulation slips right on over the regular grips, no adhesive or glue necessary. When they get worn or funky from dirt/sweat, I replace 'em in about 15 seconds at home.

We all may believe what we will, but its hard to argue that the faith of the amish and mennonites really makes possible their simple lifestyles, good deeds, and tireless work ethic. Most of them arent even thinking about peak oil or global warming and look at the good their lifestyle can do!


Finding voices within Christianity for service to each other, simple living, peace and justice, an attitude of mutual respect, humility, tolerance and bearing witness against the “redemptive” violence and intolerance that so permeates our culture and world view today……are voices more need to hear.

There are some valuable views within Christianity, Buddhism, other faiths and even non-faith based thinking that can guide those who are looking for a simple and nurturing approach to life. That doesn’t mean you have to belong to any religion though. Also that outward view in combination with a material lifestyle that carefully looks at its use of resources and weights its value in a pertinent way to my present daily needs is the kind of search I’m continually on.

For the purposes of this forum I’ll say being car free has always been part of my chosen lifestyle. I don’t know if that will change sometime in the future because it’s a decision that will be made on my real needs…..and being judgmental towards myself or others isn’t part of what all of the above is about. :)

Why do you and SR say this? As far as I know, the Amish don't marry their cousins or any such thing. I don't think they're any more interbred than the Hawaiians or Icelanders, are they?

It's not that they are currently and actively marrying their first cousins, but because there are but so many families in a given community common defective genes have a greater chance of expressing themselves as distant cousin marries distant cousin. Also, it's not like they are getting a regular and large influx of new families. Furthermore this was a discussion of the Amish not the Hawaiians or Icelanders. I'm sure if someone did a study of these groups they may turn up similar results. Or to put my own dog in the fight, the genetics of townspeople from remote Italian villages as my father was born in Morrone Del Sannio which is a town that never had more than 3,500 people at the time of his birth and currently has a max of 800.:twitchy::eek:

I just like the idea of living more simply, with less stuff ... and being more active. The whole 3-4 hours of exercise a day thing sounds wonderful to me. It would be great to have that kind of time every day. :)

The Amish and Mennonites set an example. Putting aside the snide and/or bigoted comments from several posters, the key issue is taking elements of those lifestyles and applying them in everyday living, irrespective of whatever or wherever community.

There are people who live very comfortably in Australian suburbia or on the edge of it without relying on the reticulated energy grid, the water grid or the sewerage grid. They grow their own vegetables and fruit, and pickle, preserve, or dry them for use out of season. They use energy efficiently. They may have chickens, and source their meat from outside the abattoir system.

Yes, they may be connected to the electricity grid, to sell power back to the grid owners, as well as to cover peak load situations in the household should they occur.Yes, they usually have some sort of phone connection; these are intelligent people, who have every right and the knowhow to combine modern technology with their lifestyle choices.

They don't necessarily have any faith they are following, except perhaps a belief in their own abilities to be self-reliant and prosper without all the trinkets that western society says you must have.

Being self-reliant is an amazingly freeing feeling, and gives you a much deeper understanding of how the world works -- because you have to make it work for you. But it does require a commitment -- growing food in a garden is a 12-month activity; building a house using recycled materials and with energy efficiency takes time and planning.

Ultimately, it comes down to personal lifestyle choices. Like being free of car ownership or "car-lite" and choosing a bicycle as the primary transport mode. The corollary to that is that such a transport choice also can lead to other lifestyle choices, such as location of residence, accessibility to employment, even type of employment, type of holidays, the values that children are taught, and so on.

And it leads to a simplicity in one's personal outlook on life. One of the keys is that living simply means low cost -- and if there are few or no financial concerns, the simple positive outlook on life sure can be a wonderfully empowering thing.

http://9.media.bustedtees.com/bustedtees/mf/f/a/bustedtees.c366447fe9f0249fc4bfb6aa5ccc0f7b.gif

http://www.bustedtees.com/amish

They must get some crazy saddle sores from wearing those cotton long pants.

well to add to this discussion, I grew up and am a practicing mennonite. In all honesty thats not as wierd as it sounds, as the majority of Mennonites, live and work exactly like every other group of people in the States. Its more like baptists vs lutherans than like the amish. But thats us modern Mennos, there still plenty of Conservative mennonites out there. I went to a small mennonite school (eastern mennonite university) in the Shenadoah valley of Virginia, gorgeous place with plenty of us bikers! In fact did you know floyd landis of Tour de France fame is from a Mennonite family?

IF you ever want to see tons of amish and mennonites bike, go to Sarasota Florida. Its sort of their version of vacation mecca. They get bussed down in lots from Ohio and indiana to bike and wear cape dresses on the beach. And earlier posters were right, the friendliness and eagerness to help people of the Amish is amazing. There was an NPR story comparing the Amish/mennonite house building efforts vs Habitat for humanity after Hurricane Katrina, and the summary was that the amish had nearly trippled the number of house habitat had built for families. Not to toot my peoples horn or nothing, but the mennonites loom larger than their small numbers should dictate in international peace and disaster relief efforts. Check out Mennonite Central Committee if you want to see all the programs theyve got their hands in.

We all may believe what we will, but its hard to argue that the faith of the amish and mennonites really makes possible their simple lifestyles, good deeds, and tireless work ethic. Most of them arent even thinking about peak oil or global warming and look at the good their lifestyle can do!

ok off my soap box now :) Lancaster, PA = Best pies in the world!

What's up Conrad

This is Jules

(I go to the same college he graduated from and we're also second cousins. This is common with Mennonites, if you meet another menno you know you're at most 2 degrees away from them by either blood or some other association)

Anyway Amish theology is a little wacky but they have a lot going for them in terms of sustainable lifestyle, moral living (not just the kind of "moral values" that republicans try to get voters with) and so on. Respect them.
And it's been said before but there's all kinds of Amish and conservative mennonites with all kinds of slightly different intricate codes of what they can do. Some can play on game boys for instance (I saw it). Mennonites in general tend toward biking for utility if not pleasure, partly because we're stingy and partly because it's environmentally friendly.

And yeah, Amish inbreed sometimes...six-fingered kids are more common among them than general population. It's because if you're Amish you can't marry outside the community, and you marry who's there. most of us regular mennonites probably have some of that in our family history somewhere...

What up Jules? I had no clue you read these forums! thinking of living car free? hell i didnt even know you biked much! you should rally the green house boys and bring em down to DC for a visit.

But seriously, to the rest of you, the fact that I post anonymously on a forum and my second cousin sees my post, identifies me and pipes in just goes to prove the small world of the Mennonites. When we meet new mennonites we jokingly say that were "playing the mennonite game" where you figure out who their related to and where there from, and 9 times out of 10, you can make some connection through friends or relatives.

Also, Roody mentioned an excellent book a few pages back. DEEP ECONOMY by Bill Mckibben is an excellent book! I can gaurantee you we wouldnt be in this economic crisis if our financial leaders lead based on the principles of that book.

Sounds like what my father used to call "woodpile relations".

As in: "Your dog p*ssed on my woodpile, so now we're related."

http://9.media.bustedtees.com/bustedtees/mf/f/a/bustedtees.c366447fe9f0249fc4bfb6aa5ccc0f7b.gif

http://www.bustedtees.com/amish

Ha ha haaaaa. Oh man, that's rich! Good one, Marrock!

What up Jules? I had no clue you read these forums! thinking of living car free? hell i didnt even know you biked much! you should rally the green house boys and bring em down to DC for a visit.
I just started, I'm just getting into biking now, or at least biking beyond riding my old POS around and hoping nothing breaks. I'd like to rally Jake and Andy for anything but all they do is play WoW :(
Jon Spicher started a bike club this year, they've had a couple rides and he's trying to get some repair/maintenance lessons started.

And I'm not thinking of living car free, lol, I can't afford a car anyways and you know my parents dont even have one right?


Sounds like what my father used to call "woodpile relations".

As in: "Your dog p*ssed on my woodpile, so now we're related." Hahahahahhahahahahah
the difference is we're actually all blood related or close to it
It's sort of creepy in a way

Anyway our college is having a bike week, they're trying to get everyone to bike to campus or at least carpool, special breakfasts for people that bike in, that kind of thing. Does anybody else have any community initiatives going on to encourage bike commuting?

Jules, theres a really good discussion here in the forums called "how to make more converts" discussing how to pull more people into biking. Honestly though, i thnk right now, winter is probably going to be the biggest obstacle for beginners. This bike week initiative would be more successful i think in the spring when they have many warm months ahead.

Harrisonburg is a great place to bike, with downtown being pretty flat and everything close together. Even the urban sprawl hell side of town isnt that far away by bike. tell ya what, when im back in the spring, we should build a bike trailer, so that we have something to haul big stuff back. maybe even rent it out to people on campus.

Im surprised you cant get Jake riding. I thought he had a 2 thousand dollar bike and loved to ride? oh well, amazing how video games can ruin a guy.

Jon Spicher is pretty hardcore. I thought his cross country ride was intense, but now hes planning a ride from Harrisonburg, Virginia to Peru for the Mennonite World Conference with Lars. Seems there going to use it as a fundraiser for individuals who cant afford to make the trip.

Im really excited to hear about Eastern Mennonite University's bike initiiative. I love it when were on the cutting edge (like with the plans for building a state of the art "green" science center) It makes me proud when i tell someone i went to an obscure christian school for college, and when they respond with confusion, I lay out all the progressive things EMU is doing. Love it!

Btw i love that Drink or drive shirt. I think that would sell alot of copies at our school :)