Response to Fire Trucks

[John C. Ratliff]

In the last two weeks, I've had two encounters with fire trucks. Both were informative, and I'd like to share a bit with you about these experiences, especially yesterday's.

Last week, I was stopped at a major intersection waiting for the light to turn when I heard a siren. When the light turned green, I stayed put, and sure enough a fire truck shortly came by from the major road (six lanes) to my right. I was in a bike lane between the right turn lane and the other three major traffic lanes to my left. I tried to signal with my hand that cars should not enter the intersection, but several went anyway. One had to stop when he saw the fire truck. After it passed, I heard another siren, and again tried to stop cars, and again one entered the intersection, but stopped when a police car which was following the fire truck came by. All in all, it was hard to get the cars to understand that a fire truck was coming.

Then yesterday, the circumstances changed. I had just entered a roadway from my work, and was in the bicycle lane, when I saw and heard a fire truck behind me. I was nearing an intersection, and so slowed way down as the fire truck came abreast of me. The intersection had a green light, and so I monitored the fire truck in my mirror and by looking to the left to see it. It had moved to the center lane (four lane roadway, with a center divider and turn lanes for left turns). I noted that the fire truck was in the left turn lane, and continued to watch it as I slowly (probably 8 mph) continued. I continued into the intersection, and then to my astonishment the fire truck turned behind me to the right from that left turn lane. As it went behind me, it beeped its horn in displeasure at me for my continuing through the intersection. Even now, I do not know whether the fire truck had turned the light to red, as I was looking at the fire truck (I had previously cleared both directions in the intersection). I really thought this fire truck would turn left; that it did not took me totally by surprise.

Yes, I should have completely stopped, and I did not. I just want everyone to learn from my mistake here, and actually stop when these emergency vehicles go by.

Anyone had similar experiences?

John

[mymilkexpired]

I havent had that problem myself but you did identify your actions that led upto the encounter. Hopefully everyone will be as alert as you when they are on the roads. Its saddening to see all these deaths, it makes me not want to commute to work...

[randya]

I watched two incidents in the same day last week where motorists failed to yield to emergency vehicles.

And, yes, some emergency vehicles may have electronic devices capable of affecting the traffic signals. I know that some busses in Portland are equipped with electronic devices that delay the signal change so that they can get through the light before it turns red.

[DieselDan]

I've never really had a problem with fire trucks while cycling, but while driving is another problem. People pull to the right and STOP? Why? All they need is a clear road, not another accident to deal with.

[supcom]

I've never really had a problem with fire trucks while cycling, but while driving is another problem. People pull to the right and STOP? Why? All they need is a clear road, not another accident to deal with.

Because it's the law.

From the Texas Department of Public Safety Driving Handbook:

You must yield the right-of-way to
police cars, fire trucks, ambulances,
and other emergency vehicles
which are sounding a siren or
bell or flashing a red light by
pulling to the right edge of the
roadway and stopping.

However, there is an exception:

In the
event traffic is so congested as to
prevent you from safely doing so,
slow down and leave a clear path
for the emergency vehicle.

[Poguemahone]

I hear a siren, and the first thing I do is visually check behind and to the sides-- due to hearing loss, I'm unable to determine where sounds are coming from. If the emergency vehicle is approaching I dismount, and get off the roadway entirely(or get off the road and dismount, whichever is quicker). This is not unusual, as my commute goes by both a fire station and the depot for ambulances here in Richmond. Given the manuverability advantages bikes have over cars in traffic, it's quite easy to get entirely out of the way, which I am glad to do for an emergency vehicle, law or no.

[Daily Commute]

Law or not, it's important to stop so the emergency vehicle doesn't even have to think about you. As John's e-mail makes clear, a firetruck can never know which way a moving vehicle will move next. If you are stopped, both you and the firetruck driver know you are out of the way.

[DanFromDetroit]

...
due to hearing loss, I'm unable to determine where sounds are coming from...


This is not just you. All of the sirens used in my area are of this type. You cannot tell which direction they are coming from or which direction they are moving. I hear (no pun intended) that in Europe, some localities have implemented other types of sirens that solve this problem.

I also stop and get completely off the road.

Dan

[N_C]

Here in Iowa motorists are supposed to come to a complete stop and pull to the right if possible. If they can not pull to the right they are to stop until the emergency vehicle passes. The emergency vehicle driver has an easier time getting around a stopped motorist even if they are stopped in a center or left lane on a one way road then trying to get around a motorist who is trying to get out of their way & is still moving.

The exception to this is on the interstate system. Because of the speeds involved on the interstate motorists are to move to the right lane and slow down until the emergency unit passes.

Unfortunatley a lot of people do not realize any of this and sometimes end up causing an accident between them and hte emergency vehicle.

[midwestmntnbkr]

Because it's the law.

From the Texas Department of Public Safety Driving Handbook:

You must yield the right-of-way to
police cars, fire trucks, ambulances,
and other emergency vehicles
which are sounding a siren or
bell or flashing a red light by
pulling to the right edge of the
roadway and stopping.

However, there is an exception:

In the
event traffic is so congested as to
prevent you from safely doing so,
slow down and leave a clear path
for the emergency vehicle.

that is exactly right. I believe it is pretty much universal no matter what state you are in.


Nothing ticks me off more than to see some idiot that is not paying attention continue down the road when an emergency vehicle is approaching. Have you ever seen a car that got hit by a fire truck on the way to a fire...I have they were picking up pieces for several days and for quite a large area. (not all of them were car pieces either)

Bottom line is get out of the way!!

[MichaelW]

When there is a siren coming, cars are even less focussed on cyclists than usual, and after they have past, dont expect drivers to let you back into the lane that easily.
Large fire trucks need pleny of turning circle, so can swerve one way, to turn another. Just stop and let them pass.

[ChezJfrey]

Emergency vehicles frequently use the entire road because they must - everyone is in their way. So, it doesn't surprise me if they use the left turn lane to turn right. I always stop when on a bike or in a car for the simple reason that I don't know where the responding crew needs to go.

It also doesn't surprise me that cars don't stop when you motion to them. You're on a bike and I think we've all learned that no driver is going to pay any attention to you :) I interject a smiley, but the unfortunate fact is, this is largely true. In fact, they don't stop when you stop in front of them. Earlier this week I was riding in morning traffic when I saw a guy standing at a marked crosswalk located mid-block. Every car on the road continued as if he wasn't there, so I took the initiative. I glanced behind me to ensure I wouldn't get clobbered then stopped to allow the guy to cross. Didn't happen. Every car behind me darted into the next lane and continued on. I chuckled and mentioned to the guy, "Hey, I thought they'd stop for me at least, if not for you!" He laughed and thanked me for trying.

[crustedfish]

More importantly, it is SOP (standard operating procedure) for all emergency vehicles to pass left of center.

So, it is NEVER wise to assume the direction of travel/turning of an emergency vehicle, because they are trained and will always travel left of center, pass on the left, and enter an intersection either centerline or left of center, and turn from that lane!!!!

FYI...used to work with fire departments..

randy

[vixen2yall]

<snip> I hear (no pun intended) that in Europe, some localities have implemented other types of sirens that solve this problem.<snip>


they have, it's a directional siren that you hear when your in front of / directly behind the vehicle . (although you can hear it from the sides as well it's just not near as loud.) not sure if they work all that much better than the old' reliables as you really can't hear them until they are almost up your tail bone. but when they're there... you know it! scared the living geebies out of me the first time i heard it. i thought we were having air raids or something.

cheers
kat

[schwinnbikelove]

I've never really had a problem with fire trucks while cycling, but while driving is another problem. People pull to the right and STOP? Why? All they need is a clear road, not another accident to deal with.

I really REALLY hope you're kidding...?!?!?

[Chris L]

What I'd like to see is something done about journalists who have a habit of blocking the path of an emergency vehicle so they can get the shot. I've seen Channel Nine do this previously.

[Poguemahone]

"This is not just you. All of the sirens used in my area are of this type. You cannot tell which direction they are coming from or which direction they are moving."

Interesting, I had no idea. I have no hearing at all in one ear and partial hearing in the other. With only one ear, I cannot hear what direction any sound comes from, let alone sirens. It's similar to the lack of depth perception you get when you cover one eye. I simply assumed (oops) people who could hear properly could locate the directional sound of siren; I've never been able to, having never heard properly. Them's some sneaky sirens.

[Txthroop]

Well, finally something I can speak with authority on! As an honest-to-goodness fire truck driver maybe I can give you all some input from where I stand (or, in this case, sit).

One of the disadvantages of flashing lights and sirens is that they do tend to make people tense and unpredictable. In their hurry to get out of the way many drivers forget that the way to do it is by pulling to the right--or perhaps they forgot it a long time ago. Despite public awareness campaigns and media coverage many drivers continue to do all conceivable types of manoeuvers to yield the road. Some folks, due to the well insulated car interiors of today or to very loud radio volume (or occasionally, I suppose, to hearing loss...probably from that radio (Not you Poguemahone!)). just keep going on their merry way without hearing the sirens. For a bicyclist what's important here is that all bets are off as to what the cars are gonna do. Like was mentioned in a previous post, people get intensely focused on doing the right thing and much less focused on other surrounding vehicles. Your safest place to be is out of the street.

The above applies to anywhere on the road, but intersections are, by far and away, the spot where most of the problems occur. Due to cars being backed up at a stop light people will hop curbs, turn up one-way streets (in the wrong direction) and go through the intersection against the light to get out of the way. It is also common for someone who has the green light to stop for the big red truck only to get rear ended by the person right behind him who wasn't paying attention. And, John, here's maybe what happened in your situation: when we approach an intersection there is often only one lane open to allow us through. (If people have pulled to the right, like we hope for, this is the left lane) Regardless of wether we're turning left, right or going straight we'll need to take that one lane just to get into the intersection. Then, if we're turning right we're going to have to cut right in front of all those cars from the left lane. Very unexpected by most people. In fact that's one of the situations where I feel the most vulnerable to having an accident. And, DieselDan, this is an illustration of why it's good for people to actually stop. Even on the open road it is good to stop because we frequently need to turn and cross the road, and not always in predictable locations. Also, if on your bike, it's going to be hard to cover your ears if you're not stopped ;)

Emergency vehicles in many cities can change a red light to green. I've never heard of a system that would let them change a green light to red.

Careful out there everyone. Some people are really lousy drivers.

--Chris

[justin sane]

I have a somewhat similar story about a fire truck and inconsiderate drivers. I was riding to work one day, and as I get to the Buene Park fire station I see a fire truck trying to pull out. I stopped, dismounted my bike and lifted it up onto the sidewalk to be absolutely sure I was out of the way, then I looked and noticed that no cars were stopping (or even slowing down) to let him out. After about 10 minutes of this, and the driver of the firetruck getting noticeably annoyed by the fact that nobody would stop for him, I finally yelled out "Am I the only person in this city with the decency to stop for a ******* firetruck?!?" A few people must have heard me, they stopped and let him go. The driver of the firetruck smiled and thanked me as he drove off.

Chris, if they can change a red light to green, obviously they can change a green light to red, otherwise they'd have a green in both directions. With the way people drive, that would probably cause a couple hundred accidents a day.

[Txthroop]

Yes, of course. The fire truck can change it's own light green and the system automatically makes the cross traffic signal red.

Can you stand outside my station for a few days and let 'em have it when we need to pull out?