Classic & Vintage - RIPPED Off? Please tell me----

Dear CVers,

How would you have responded in this situation:

You're feeling good as you finish up a pleasant group ride on Saturday morning and then decide to stop into your LBS for the spokes you need for your latest wheel-project, as you feel somewhat guilty for doing so much ebaying and mail-ordering lately and, deep down, you know it's important to support your LBS.

However, after standing in place at their register for at least 10 minutes while several associates and mechanics go about their business and do not engage in eye contact with you (no---hi, so-and-so-will be with you in a moment), the guy who finally hangs up his phone and actually helps you informs you that, yes, they have 292mm individual spokes for sale, and they cost $2 per spoke (14 straight gauge) plus tax?

(At least they are DT spokes---the older ones with the tighter elbows)

At any rate, I paid their price. However, after telling them that I had only $40 on me, he took off the tax. Should I feel ripped off? I think I do?

So are you mad about the price you paid or that you waited 10 minutes?

So are you mad about the price you paid or that you waited 10 minutes?

Hey, do you work there?

2 Answers: 1. the rudeness of not being acknowledged on arrival
2. being charge 400% higher than the online rate

I would resolve that situation by never going back to that shop again!

Neal

Bring a frame full of sludge into the shop to get some shifters for it. Just before you leave, uncork the BB weep hole.

:D

-Kurt

what's their return policy? Do they give refunds... find the store owner and explain the situation if it will make you feel better about it. You have nothing to lose but a another enjoyable trip on your bike!

Specter

Bring a frame full of sludge into the shop to get some shifters for it. Just before you leave, uncork the BB weep hole.

:D

-Kurt

Kurt - that's funny!

bring a frame full of sludge into the shop to get some shifters for it. Just before you leave, uncork the bb weep hole.

:d

-kurt


lol

Not having done a lot of wheel building, I wouldn't know if 292mm is a common size or not. Usually a LBS might sell individual spokes as replacements for broken ones, not complete sets. And imagine how many cartons of different sizes of 100 spokes they would have to stock. Perhaps you should have tried to cut a deal for a quantity discount. Probably buying complete sets of spokes at the LBS is not the way to go unless you get a fair price. You wouldn't buy, say, 20 tires there at full retail price, would you?

However, I have to admit that the customers of most LBS's are "regulars" they know by name and who might even get discounts on such purchases. I guess it's rude to ignore complete strangers and shake them down like that. After all, you could have been shopping for a $7000 plastic wonderbike.

Hey, do you work there?

2 Answers: 1. the rudeness of not being acknowledged on arrival
2. being charge 400% higher than the online rate


I do not work there. I don't work in any bike shop and never have. I don't know what town you live in.

I do know it is the store employee's job to greet and assist customers but I am wondering why you didn't ask for help instead of just standing there.

I have never built a wheel or bought spokes for one. I don't know how much spokes even sell for. But, it sounds like you do know and still bought them. You had the opportunity to say "Too much" and walk away but chose to buy them anyway.

I guess if you have to be mad at someone maybe start looking in the mirror first.

It sounds to me like the guy working the register charged you what someone pays when they need a single spoke to replace a broken one. Buying a set should be way less expensive.

If you still have your receipt, I would call or drop in and talk to the manager and ask if there was an error.

I do know it is the store employee's job to greet and assist customers

Very true

I mean, if it wasn't a part that you needed to use to ride home, I wouldn't have bothered giving them your money.

That said, if they are a full frame type store and not a repair/assistance type place, spokes might be a very low volume unit for them, and not really price efficient for them to sell. It's possible that you get a better price online than they do.

It's possible that you get a better price online than they do.

Good point!

Acknowledging a customer standing in front of the counter is just common courtesy. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate, just a head nod that says, "Hello. I know you're there. I'll be with you in a bit." Unfortunately, we now live in the Jerry Springer nation, where everyone is a ******-bag, with an attitude, and chip on his shoulder. It seems that the only way can get attention from anyone today is to kick them in the face with spd cleats.

As for the spokes, individual spokes are expensive when purchased at retail. My local LBS charges $1 per for zinc no-name spokes, and more for better quality.

Acknowledging a customer standing in front of the counter is just common courtesy. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate, just a head nod that says, "Hello. I know you're there. I'll be with you in a bit." Unfortunately, we now live in the Jerry Springer nation, where everyone is a ******-bag, with an attitude, and chip on his shoulder. It seems that the only way can get attention from anyone today is to kick them in the face with spd cleats.

As for the spokes, individual spokes are expensive when purchased at retail. My local LBS charges $1 per for zinc no-name spokes, and more for better quality.


Mr. Fissile,

I couldn't agree more! Thank you Sir.

Should I feel ripped off? I think I do?

No.

It's not like you HAD to buy them once you knew the price -- you chose to buy them. As is often said in the law, "fully competent adults are entitled to make a bad deal if they choose to do so". So, if you decide now it's a bad deal then it's as much your fault as theirs for entering into it.

Either take them back (if they allow returns), acquire something else you need (if they allow exchanges), or chalk it up to the experience of not shopping when you're tired after a ride. :)

[QUOTE=KarmicPedals;7517746]No.It's not like you HAD to buy them once you knew the price -- you chose to buy them. As is often said in the law, "fully competent adults are entitled to make a bad deal if they choose to do so". So, if you decide now it's a bad deal then it's as much your fault as theirs for entering into it.QUOTE]

I agree.

I just bought 18 300mm 14g spokes at LBS and it was just under $20.
so yah, I'd say you got ripped.

Marty

HI,
I noticed some bike shops are overwhelmed with people with dirty old bike don't have a clue and want free service alot.
I understand that they are trying to survive the current inflation market.
I find after a couple small purchase and paying for work they actually reconize you as your enter the store and smile.
I may be wrong but many people ask alot of those people who are actually trying to make a living.
Doug
Hey I take my Ebay buys to them for install if I don't have the tools they are OK with that.
I do try to ride with their group once in a while.
It helps to try and understand how hard it is to have a buisness, the revolves around labor, and parts not a large margin for profit when you compete with Online stores, and Ebay.
I have learned that rebuild a bike may be more expensive than buying a new bike and having it set up correctly at the store.

example ebay: find centurian 1986, needs pedals, cogs,chain, fine tunning, and add ons. it was only 177.oo bucks +plus shipping and the addons and service add upquick..

HI,
I noticed some bike shops are overwhelmed with people with dirty old bike don't have a clue and want free service alot.
I understand that they are trying to survive the current inflation market.
I find after a couple small purchase and paying for work they actually reconize you as your enter the store and smile.
I may be wrong but many people ask alot of those people who are actually trying to make a living.
Doug
Hey I take my Ebay buys to them for install if I don't have the tools they are OK with that.
I do try to ride with their group once in a while.
It helps to try and understand how hard it is to have a buisness, the revolves around labor, and parts not a large margin for profit when you compete with Online stores, and Ebay.
I have learned that rebuild a bike may be more expensive than buying a new bike and having it set up correctly at the store.


True, so I guess one needs to cut them some slack....

I just bought 18 300mm 14g spokes at LBS and it was just under $20.
so yah, I'd say you got ripped.

Marty

Marty,

Did you get them at RBM Frisco? That's a good deal.

I think it mostly depends on the shop and its staff. There are good shops, okay ones and bad ones.

However across the board, it's getting harder to find extensive parts availability in-store in many places. Online seems to be the behemoth when it comes to parts buying.

When I lived in Georgetown there were two bike shops next to one another on M Street. When I first got my Raleigh Sports it needed some work and I didn't have that kind of time so I took it to M Street. The first shop I went into was one that shall remain nameless. It was an older shop that looked pretty nice and had some nice stuff. They really didn't seem interested in doing any business though-- they just ignored me for a couple of minutes, so I finally walked up to the desk and asked if someone would help me. I told the guy about the bike and he sort of snorted that they "don't do those anymore".

I took the bicycle next door to another shop and they were just the opposite-- they helped me quickly and took in the bike and fixed it right up. When I lived down there I took the bike there every time- and they always treated me well.

I live out in Maryland now and do mostly my own work on the bikes these days. There's a small local shop in Bethesda I try to do business with, and I have gotten a couple of wheels trued there. But the mechanics seem to be mostly high school kids who work only on modern stuff. You can buy parts there, but you have they almost always have to order them for you (you may as well do it yourself at that point). They're nice there, but too small to help much on buying parts in-store.

In the same area, or even on the same block you can get two entirely different experiences depending on who is in the shop on a particular day.

"Ripped off" implies you were cheated, mislead, bamboozled or otherwise robbed.

If the store quoted a price and you accepted it and gave them your money, you weren't "ripped off".

You might have paid too much, but that's another story. Things are always cheaper "somewhere else".

spokes should cost no more than $1, that gives them about the same margin per spoke that they get on everything else in the store (maybe even a little more). So $2 for a straight gauge is ridiculous.

"Ripped off" implies you were cheated, mislead, bamboozled or otherwise robbed.

If the store quoted a price and you accepted it and gave them your money, you weren't "ripped off".

You might have paid too much, but that's another story. Things are always cheaper "somewhere else".

Well said.

i think it mostly depends on the shop and its staff. There are good shops, okay ones and bad ones.

+1

ah crapola, crashed the browser during the reply and don't want to re-type it all in again, so here's the condensed version:

I looked at Nashbar, PerformanceBike, ColoradoCyclist, and HarrisCyclery for spokes and nipples plus shipping. At $2/spoke for $40 it looks like you bought 20 spokes. After checking the four sites mentioned I figure you spent an extra $8-$12 for those spokes and nipples, didn't have to wait 3-6 days for the delivery, and didn't have to play the UPS signature game. :rolleyes:

Doesn't sound like a rip off to me. Spokes were $0.91-$1.00 each and nipples were $0.15-$0.20 each, and shipping for UPS ground was around $8-$10.

Where exactly is the big ripoff. And it took me over 10 minutes to do the web searching and online cart processing. Sounds like you even got a bit of a don't-have-the-cash-on-me-and-don't-want-to-use-a debit/credit-card discount to get the shop to eat the tax, which at a 6% rate on a $40 purchase would be around $2.40. If I figure an average price of $0.95 per spoke and $0.18 per nipple and divide an $8.50 shipping charge across 20 spokes I come up with around $1.55 per spoke/nipple versus your LBS's $2.00 over the counter cash and carry cost to you. Hmmm, $1.55 versus $2.00 doesn't sound nearly as bad as the $1.00 versus $2.00 initially presented once all factors are considered. YMMV :innocent:

2. being charge 400% higher than the online rate

At the risk of beating a dead horse here, can you give me a link to where you find spokes and nipples for $0.50 and free shipping? If 400% brings you to $2/spoke then your online cost you found should put it around 50cents each. Sounds like a good source if true, I need to get some spokes for some wheel builds this winter so please give me your source, thanks. :winter:

Yeah I am not sure about "ripped off", but you probably overpaid. When I buy spokes for wheel building at the LBS they are 60 cents a spoke, or $1 a spoke if they have to cut and thread them. I thought this was a little steep, but maybe not given the info here.

My experience is bike shops are incredibly busy on Saturdays. Service is more akin to triage in some of the busy ones. When I need LBS lovin, I show up during the week. That way not only do I get the parts I need, I get that special attention too. A little discussion on what I'm doing with the parts, maybe something like a wheelbuilding tip or two. I can't even put a price on that.

You might chalk up your experience to bad timing.

I've been patronizing this online retailer for 3 years now. Good prices and reliable service, but they tend to sell out of stuff quickly.

Bag 20 Sapim 14/15 gauge spokes, $9.50 :

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=504949564156&c=Components&sc=Wheel-and-Rim&tc=Spokes/14/15/Double-Butted

Cheapo brass nipples start at $1.40 for bag of 20, better nipples are also available for a bit more.

ah crapola, crashed the browser during the reply and don't want to re-type it all in again, so here's the condensed version:

I looked at Nashbar, PerformanceBike, ColoradoCyclist, and HarrisCyclery for spokes and nipples plus shipping. At $2/spoke for $40 it looks like you bought 20 spokes. After checking the four sites mentioned I figure you spent an extra $8-$12 for those spokes and nipples, didn't have to wait 3-6 days for the delivery, and didn't have to play the UPS signature game. :rolleyes:

Doesn't sound like a rip off to me. Spokes were $0.91-$1.00 each and nipples were $0.15-$0.20 each, and shipping for UPS ground was around $8-$10.

Where exactly is the big ripoff. And it took me over 10 minutes to do the web searching and online cart processing. Sounds like you even got a bit of a don't-have-the-cash-on-me-and-don't-want-to-use-a debit/credit-card discount to get the shop to eat the tax, which at a 6% rate on a $40 purchase would be around $2.40. If I figure an average price of $0.95 per spoke and $0.18 per nipple and divide an $8.50 shipping charge across 20 spokes I come up with around $1.55 per spoke/nipple versus your LBS's $2.00 over the counter cash and carry cost to you. Hmmm, $1.55 versus $2.00 doesn't sound nearly as bad as the $1.00 versus $2.00 initially presented once all factors are considered. YMMV :innocent:

Thanks Treebound and, nice job!

My experience is bike shops are incredibly busy on Saturdays. Service is more akin to triage in some of the busy ones. When I need LBS lovin, I show up during the week. That way not only do I get the parts I need, I get that special attention too. A little discussion on what I'm doing with the parts, maybe something like a wheelbuilding tip or two. I can't even put a price on that.

You might chalk up your experience to bad timing.

Yeah, probably. Thanks!

At the risk of beating a dead horse here, can you give me a link to where you find spokes and nipples for $0.50 and free shipping? If 400% brings you to $2/spoke then your online cost you found should put it around 50cents each. Sounds like a good source if true, I need to get some spokes for some wheel builds this winter so please give me your source, thanks. :winter:

Colorado Cylist has them for 51 cents----plus shipping

Ripped off? No, because you knew what they were charging.

Were the spokes over priced? Hell yes. As far as I know a box of 100 DT spokes costs a shop less than $40. At a 100% markup your looknig at .80 per spoke with nipples!!!!

Colorado Cyclist 14 or 15 guage spokes .51 each. nipples .15 each.
not sure what shipping would be.

Spokes were $0.91-$1.00 each and nipples were $0.15-$0.20 each
:

Spokes come with nipples. Although its been awhile since my shop days I've never seen spokes that weren't supplied with them.

Colorado Cyclist 14 or 15 guage spokes .51 each. nipples .15 each.
not sure what shipping would be.

About $5.00 to Florida.

:eek: I paid 2.40 per for my old Peugeot 27's :eek:
In Vt, you dont have a lot of choice.

I've been patronizing this online retailer for 3 years now. Good prices and reliable service, but they tend to sell out of stuff quickly.

Bag 20 Sapim 14/15 gauge spokes, $9.50 :

http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=504949564156&c=Components&sc=Wheel-and-Rim&tc=Spokes/14/15/Double-Butted

Cheapo brass nipples start at $1.40 for bag of 20, better nipples are also available for a bit more.Just to check what it would actually cost for me to order these on-line, I went through the exercise. I found that since the total was under $20, there was an additional charge of $5, bringing it up to $15.90. That's before shipping, which is usually double the cost of actual shipping or more. So now the on-line price is maybe $30 or more. Maybe the OP got a good deal at $40, getting the spokes right away. I don't know about getting stuff in 3-6 days either. Being in Canada and most mail order suppliers being in the U.S., I usually wait 1-2 weeks or longer, plus the bandits at the border get their pound of flesh as well.

:eek: I paid 2.40 per for my old Peugeot 27's :eek:
In Vt, you dont have a lot of choice.


Yeah, in the end, I think I should have said, thanks but no thanks (see, I'm still too nice)

Bring a frame full of sludge into the shop to get some shifters for it. Just before you leave, uncork the BB weep hole.

:D

-Kurt


hahahha , when i read this i was rolling outta my chair . Funny kurt .
Cheers
T

I wouldn't have paid that. The cheap bike shop sells them for 80 cents apiece, and the expensive shop for $1.00 each. If they were DT Swiss Champions - double butted - ok, maybe.

Another place to buy spokes:
www.cambriabike.com

20 DT straight 2.0 silver spokes (292mm): $7.80
20 DT brass nipples: $2.00
Shipping estimate from CA to MA $7 ground, $9 3-day

Total: $16.80

I used MA for the shipping example since it's where I live and it's about as far from CA as you can get in the U.S.

I paid .49 cents a piece for my spokes. But then again I had the shop build my wheel.

I paid .49 cents a piece for my spokes. But then again I had the shop build my wheel.

When I was in the biz, spokes cost the per each same whether you bought 1 or 36, whether you bought it as part of the wheel build or just as parts. If I had worked out differential spoke pricing like some of these shops have, I might have made enough money to still be in the biz.

Universal spoke price, Seattle 1998:

DT plain, $.40 each
DT Champion Butted, $1.00 each.

I don't think anyone in town charged more.

Back in the 70s they were 10 cents a piece, and an ounce was 10. dollars...

and condoms cost, oh heck we never used those.

and condoms cost, oh heck we never used those.

PRO CHANCE huh?