Tandem Cycling - Sadly...my parnter is not a cyclist...please help

Sadly :( my partner is not a cyclist and so...it is with much chagrin that i have decided (it's been nearly 4 years now and i've only gotten him out on it 5 or 6 times) to sell my beautiful santana tandem. i've put a ton of work on it and so...i feel especially sad to let it go. i feel like it's my child, or a pet and i really just want it to find a good home.

I listed it on ebay and craigslist in the SF Bay Area. Anyone have any good ideas on other places to list it? I'd list it here, but don't want to abuse/misuse the site. It is, after all, one of the few non-commercial havens of the e-world.

Thanks for your help :)

http://www.tandemmag.com/classified

Edit: I took a look at your tandem and while it's very nice, I'd really recommend you confirm it was originally built by Santana by cross checking the serial number with the folks at Santana. I believe they've always put their serial numbers on the underside of the front or rear bottom bracket shells... but I could be wrong about that. http://santanatandem.com/Contact07.html

Here's the rub, to the best of my knowledge Santana has never built any tandem using a double-diamond frame design. Their earliest tandems back in the late 70's used a Marathon style frame which was subsequently replaced by the 'Direct Internal' design they still use to this day. In fact, the double-diamond, open, up-tube and a few other frame designs are all critiqued in Santana's marketing material, with special attentive given to the double-diamond as it was the more prevailent design back when Bill McCready was testing tandems for Bicycling Magazine in the 70's and it was in part its lack of lateral stiffness that drove him towards the Marathon design he used on his first Santana tandems. Again, like the serial number location, I could be wrong.... but I'd really recommend a double check with Santana. They may be short-staffed due to this week's Interbike activities, but someone should be there who would know or who could quickly find out, e.g., Steve, Bill, Jan, etc...

thanks for being so informative.

you rock the house!

http://www.tandemmag.com/classified
Here's the rub, to the best of my knowledge Santana has never built any tandem using a double-diamond frame design. Their earliest tandems back in the late 70's used a Marathon style frame which was subsequently replaced by the 'Direct Internal' design they still use to this day. In fact, the double-diamond, open, up-tube and a few other frame designs are all critiqued in Santana's marketing material, with special attentive given to the double-diamond as it was the more prevailent design back when Bill McCready was testing tandems for Bicycling Magazine in the 70's and it was in part its lack of lateral stiffness that drove him towards the Marathon design he used on his first Santana tandems. Again, like the serial number location, I could be wrong.... but I'd really recommend a double check with Santana. They may be short-staffed due to this week's Interbike activities, but someone should be there who would know or who could quickly find out, e.g., Steve, Bill, Jan, etc...

Santana did use a double diamond frame in the early 80s. In a recent conversation with him, Bill did not go so far as to call the design failed--his words were: "it was stiff enough for a small frame..."

I can't confirm if the bike is a Santana, or not, but it does look a lot like my old Solana (though probably loved a little more than mine).

Note: In case it isn't obvious, the red one was mine (there is a Santana logo on the headtube, if anyone is wondering if my bike is really a Santana); the blue one is the ebay listing.

hey tandemgeek.

first of all thank you. thanks for your help.

well...

i feel like a total idiot. like a dumb girl that went to the car mechanic and got one pulled over on them. i got the bike, believe it or not, from a friend who had a bike shop. he is no longer a friend and perhaps i see part of the reason now. he sold it to me as a "santana frame" - had it powder coated before i ever saw the original decals. i didn't think to look at the underside of the frame for the serial numbers because he was my friend and i trusted him. it's a univega. says it clear as mud under the frame: univega 002. knowing nothing about tandems when i bought it (and barely anymore now since, as i mentioned, my partner has no real interest in riding it), i didn't know enough to know he [likely] scammed me.

now i feel stupid, but eh...it's a learning experience.

any idea on what i should ask for it? i want to sell it for a fair price. having a hard time finding anything on the web.

thanks so much.

Santana did use a double diamond frame in the early 80s. In a recent conversation with him, Bill did not go so far as to call the design failed--his words were: "it was stiff enough for a small frame..."

Ya learn something new every day. Was this something Santana messed around with about the same time as the Moda single mountain bike frames? I seem to recall the Moda's were built in the 82' ish time frame.

Again, the serial number is the key; 72andsunny... where was the serial number on your Solana?

Regardless, a photo of the right side of the tandem / front crankset that revealed the front eccentric design would go a long way towards confirming the pedigree. If the eccentric used the same split shell / pinch bolt design as 72andsunny's Solana that would certainly suggest it was a Santana as represented by the person from whom you purchased the frame... and that would be a good thing for all concerned.

Aside from that, as noted in a PM reply, it almost looks like a Jack Taylor frameset... Other comments on pricing are in the PM.

Ya learn something new every day. Was this something Santana messed around with about the same time as the Moda single mountain bike frames? I seem to recall the Moda's were built in the 82' ish time frame.

Again, the serial number is the key; 72andsunny... where was the serial number on your Solana?

Regardless, a photo of the right side of the tandem / front crankset that revealed the front eccentric design would go a long way towards confirming the pedigree. If the eccentric used the same split shell / pinch bolt design as 72andsunny's Solana that would certainly suggest it was a Santana as represented by the person from whom you purchased the frame... and that would be a good thing for all concerned.

Aside from that, as noted in a PM reply, it almost looks like a Jack Taylor frameset... Other comments on pricing are in the PM.

Except for an occasional appearance on ebay, I've never come across a Moda; I thought they were made in the early 90s. (The only single Santana I've ever personally seen was an "Extratour". They bring it along on their tours sometimes for stray single riders.)

The serial number was under one of the bottom brackets...can't remember which one, though it was in the same place as on our new bike. One more frame note: Our bike had an oval boom tube (not as wide as the current design, but defintely oval).

Hey, looks like Mt. Airy has an 83 Solano...anyone in the area want to go take a look? http://www.bike123.com/closeouts.htm

Santana did build double diamonds . . .
The Solana was built around 1983 and was Santana's answer to a 'less expensive' bike with 'Santana qualities', but without hand detailing and less expensive components.
Frame/fork Reynolds 531; steerer tube with Cinelli investment cast forkcrown.
Braze-ons for fenders, 2 water bottles, cable stops and cantis.
Brakes: Mafac cantis, Arai RX tandem hub brake.
Suntour 'wide range' derailleurs and barcons. TA triple crankset, 48 spoke wheels. Ukai 27rims, QR front wheel only. No-name alloy seatpost and pedals but Christophe toeclips/straps. 3 sizes: 24x22, 22x20, 20x18.
Gear range 27 to 110", 15 speed.
Solana decal on downtube, not a Santana decal.
Brochure shows Solana and Santana tandem with pedals . . . OOP!
Available in red or blue; MSRP of $1850.
That from official 'tana brochure date 1/83.
Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Should have listed him. Women think so... so wrong.

Santana did build double diamonds . . .

I should have checked Hobbes before relying on 'memory' as there was, in fact, a fairly detailed write-up on the "Solana built by Santana" back in 1997.

In fact, assuming David was correct in his detals regarding the tubeset, there's a very good chance that the OP's tandem IS a Solana by Santana. Now, if only we could figure out why the frame carries the name Univega. Seriously, the more I study the various photos the more I'm drawn to conclude the blue tandem is a Solana, e.g., drop-outs, seat mast, and Jack Taylor-like appearance mentioned to the OP in an earlier off-list posting.




Archive-URL: http://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.asp?Filename=tandem.9712.0245.eml
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 22:15:49 -0600
From: Peaslee and Brenden <speaslee(AT)pclink.com>
Subject: Re: [T(AT)H] Santana Solana


At 10:56 AM 12/7/97 -0800, David J. Cushwa wrote:
> In our quest to obtain a nice, used, starter tandem, we have come across a
>Santana Solana. We don't know the age, but it is in beautiful condition.
>It has a "double diamond" Reynolds 531 frame, 48 spoke 27" wheels, and a
>drum brake.
>
>1) Does anyone know which years this model was produced?

We have had such a bike since it was new. We bought it new in 1983.
According to Jack Goertz, Bill McCready hired Mike Melton to set up his
brazing shop for increased production. Part of the deal was that Bill had
to buy up Mike's stock of 531 tandem tube sets. I think Bill had already
concluded that this "tandem specific" tube set didn't meet his standards,
and they never really called the Solana a Santana. I think they called it
the Solana built by Santana.

>2) Should I be concerned about the "double-diamondness" (I'm 240#; I'll be
>traveling with pre-teens)? Santana's own web page says: "Inspired by
>welding two bikes together, the double diamond is cheap and easy to build
>but uncomfortable, unstable and inefficient."

According to Bill, Jack Taylor, who had Reynolds develop the tube set, had
concluded that the marathon style was superior in performance to the double
diamond. But he had Reynolds make up the tube set for a double diamond
because it was easier to build. Since the Solana was made up with the same
tube set as the Jack Taylor, it shares many of its faults.

The DD is whippier than a marathon or direct lateral. However, it is also
lighter than a marathon and gives a little cushier ride (This is before
suspension.) John Schubert points out in the Tandem Scoop, that a well
coordinated team can do well with a whippy frame and take advantage of the
lighter weight. You may find that pre teens make very stable, quiet stokers
with good power to weight ratios. Thus you probably won't have to deal with
a stoker trying to steer from the back seat.

It has a 24.5" stoker top tube which some find crowded. The advantage is
that, in cool weather, the stoker can tuck into the slip stream and get out
of the wind.

The wheels are undished with 140mm hubs, if they are the originals,
probably Suzue. If it still has the original standard five speed freewheel,
it can be upgraded to six or maybe seven without much trouble. If it still
has the nutted rear axle, keep it. The quick release axle had a reputation
for bending.

Jack Goertz, Tandems, Ltd., has some TA parts if you need them.

>3) Is it hard to find 27" tires?

So far, no. My 97-98 Conti catalog shows four tires: 20 x 622, 23 x 622
Supersports, 23 x 622 Sport, and 32 x 622 Top Touring. I think their
catalog has some printing errors. The first three are 1-1/8, 1-1/4 and
1-1/4 which do not match up with the metric sizes. The last they call 1-1/4
which sounds closer. The top touring looks like an excellent tandem tire.
The Solana's frame and fork are wide enough to take 1-3/8 Tioga Bloodhounds
(no fenders).

>4) What current price range would one expect for a tandem that was $1400
>new, maybe 15 years ago?

That is tougher. My recollection is that someone found a Motobecane of that
era for about $750. Most on the list thought that was too high. Some time
ago someone found a Schwinn Paramount for $795. Opinion was split. A used
Burley for instance would have a better design, but probably weigh more. A
Jack Taylor, if you could find one might go for more if it had good
original paint, but I don't think it would be any better as a ride.

Steve Peaslee
Minnetonka, MN 55305

I looked at the Craigslist ads, and you've got a lot of competition out there in the SF area, that doesn't help any. You'll see good tandems in the Dallas CL, but they're not nearly as common.

Seriously, the more I study the various photos the more I'm drawn to conclude the blue tandem is a Solana, e.g., drop-outs, seat mast, and Jack Taylor-like appearance mentioned to the OP in an earlier off-list posting.

I was thinking the opposite: The stoker's down tube attaches to the seat tube in a different place on the two bikes...I suppose this could be attributed to different frame sizes (my bike was giant).

If the OP is still around, is the bottom tube oval or round?