Cyclocross Racing - Titanium vs Carbon aluminum

So I'm torn between a titanium Motobocane Fantom Cross ($1700) or a Bianchi Cross Concept, either the full carbon ($2600) or the aluminum carbon combo frame ($1600).

I've never ridden a Ti bike. My buddy has and says it is as soft as carbon on the bumps. I rode the Cross Concept w/ carbon chain stays and liked it.

I'm looking for some opinions, especially regarding the ride characteristics of the different materials.

Thanks

on my ti ride, especially on the trainer, i can feel the give and flex of the material with each pedal stroke (though my technique is not very good), I feel like I'm getting better at using the flex/rebound to power through the stroke with more finness

its a polarizing opinion, I don't ride alu any more, its steel or ti because ride quality matters much more to me than laboratory stiffness

For what type of riding? I'd stick with Al for racing, or I guess full carbon maybe, as long as you budget for good wheels. I like a fatter tube for shouldering, and comliance isn't a big deal during the course of an hour where you'r eoff the bike 20 times anyways.

Bike will be used for general cross riding and cross racing. My other bike is a Bianchi Axis - aluminum.

Can I put a second bike in the pits?

First get good wheels, tubular or no tubes.
I would stay away from carbon, you will see the courses that the Crusaders are going to invent.
Most of them are a bit "unconventional" and with the amount of riders on the course crashes are always happening. Carbon fork should be a good one, and strong.
You might want to wait a couple of races and try a couple of bikes to get a feel for the difference.
Ciao
Paolo

Carbon is durable stuff and while I wouldn't necessarily shy away from a carbon 'cross bike, I've also seen a whole bunch of big pileups that put dings and dents in top tubes that would likely fracture carbon. Now, you can ride a metal bike with a dinged TT, just so long as you're careful and the ding isn't too bad. With carbon, though, you're sending that thing to Craig Calfee and paying $300 for him to rewrap the crack.

I mean, I've taken a spill in nearly every race I've entered for the past two years and taken lots of spills in practice. Hell, in 'cross, you're not going fast unless you're on the verge of crashing or puking. Your mileage may vary, of course.

LOL! Love the puking part. That is usually lap 3 and 4 for me.... Breaking the carbon frame concerns me too. Fine on the road but cross is rough on equipment.

Are the wheels on this considered good? Right now I have the stock 2006 Bianchi Axis with stock wheels: Alex ALX 320's.

http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/fantom_cross_ti.htm

Also, is it legal to put a spare bike in the pits? (Cross Crusade - Portland, OR)

I'm back and forth on this for the past few weeks, should I get the Fantom cross, should I get better wheels for the Bianchi, should I just use the Bianchi..... Right now I'm about ready to order the Fantom Cross Ti.

I'd keep the Bianchi and get better wheels, it's a perfectly good bike for cross, plus you'll have a set of pit wheels.

You could get some tubulars for it here: http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=142
Or clinchers
http://www.bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=47

+1 on the carbon, it may well be a great material but the chances of going down in a cross race is pretty high, so durability/replaceability is high on the list of priorities.

Yes, I believe you can put a spare bike or spare wheels in the pit at cross crusade.
See you out there! :thumb:

I've raced a heavy ass 30lb Alu. 29er, a full Ti. and a full carbon on Cross courses. I feel geometery , fit, saddle and tire perssure seem to make the biggest difference. This ain't road biking, 25 - 40 psi soaks up way more than any frame is going to. Get what you can afford, what turns your crank, and what you can afford to replace.

Thanks for the wheel links. The tubular wheels look good and I think I'll get a pair. I'm thinking the ultegra hubs and 32 spokes???? Should I go with better hubs? THey are a lot more money..... What tires would be good?

I'm still thinking a 2nd cross bike would be nice and the Ti Tricross is looking good. Gotta do something to support the economy. It is only money.

Thanks for the wheel links. The tubular wheels look good and I think I'll get a pair. I'm thinking the ultegra hubs and 32 spokes???? Should I go with better hubs? THey are a lot more money..... What tires would be good?

I'm still thinking a 2nd cross bike would be nice and the Ti Tricross is looking good. Gotta do something to support the economy. It is only money.

The Ultegra hubs are fine.

I like Michelin Mud for clinchers, if you go with tubulars you can run lower psi for better grip and smoother ride.

I tried a Tricross and thought it was ok, not spectacular.
If you are on the obra mailing list there are great deals on used cross bikes to be had. I got a Kona JTS for less than $700 and my wife a steel Lemond Poprad for $600.

Better to get two pairs of wheels or snazzy tyres than high end hubs. Ultegra hubs will be more than adequate for cross; probably better than some of the boutique hubs which are designed for low weight rather than mud :) Remember you'll need to glue the tubs and good tubs can run to 100$ each.

I ordered the Fantom Cross in Ti. I raced Master C today and came in 44th out of 63.... Better than last week when I only beat 2 guys.... :)

I saw some ultegra tubeless rims and I think Ritchy tires.... looked kinda sexy. Anyone try those? I'm considering a set if they aren't too much.

Good job out there, a bit hot?

Check out the Hutchinson tubeless they are going pretty cheap at Performance, and remember only a number of races are going to be dry like today, rain is coming and it will get muddy....
Ciao
Paolo

I am also thinking of buying the TI CX Motobecane thru bicyclesdirect. When you get it, could you get back to us on the experience (company service) and the ride of the bike. I have not been able to find anyone locally that could compare the ride of Ti to Steel, carbon, etc. I Know Lynsky (and others) promote Ti but also indicate the quality of the tubing is paramount - not sure where on the quality scale Motobecane is. Also, the Motobecane is avbailable only with the Shimano Ultegra shifters - can anyone comment on SRAM rival vs the Shimano?

Carbon Cross frames are the stupidest thing next to carbon mountain bikes. One crash and your precious bike can be gone. Look at the top pros, they all ride aluminum.

If you intend to race cx semi-serious to seriously you should have two bikes and 3 pairs of wheels. Ideally you would have the exact same bike but two different bikes will work as long as their fits are close.

I have two pairs of tubulars and one pair of clinchers. The clinchers are on the spare bike and tubulars go on the A bike. If I puncture, I swap out for the spare and have my pit buddy change the wheel and I hop back on the A bike next go around.

I got the Ti Motobecane a month or so ago and I have been very pleased. The ride is nice and it seems faster than my Bianchi. The Ti bike was just over 1 pound lighter than my Axis. (Same tires / tubes / pedals.) The ultegra shifters are just great. The Bianchi Cross Concept was very soft, perhaps too sof and I haven't seen a lot of them at the Crosscusade races. I got the gigantic stickers off my bike, no clear coat. All sexy Ti now. All in all a very good bike and a good deal.

Having crashed, been crashed into and run over one bike that crashed in front of me..... Carbon is a bit scary to me now on a cross bike. I do see a few carbon wheels sets out there but not many carbon bikes.

Great advice from Nitropowered.....