Vehicular Cycling (VC) - Vehicular Cycling - a motorhead's wet dream?

Of course. This is why VC alone will never lead to more than 1% of the country choosing the bicycle as a means of transportation.

I think the reason so few Americans use bicycles for transportation is that few areas of the country have a decent train/subway system. Americans live too far from all the places they'd like to go to to get there completely by bicycle. And there are no decent train systems for them to use for the longer trips, and so they just hop in a car.

When I lived in Japan, I never even considered wanting a car. Here in the USA, even though I live near San Francisco where there is some public transportation, I can not even imagine not having a car. My world would be way too small (besides, there are way too many hills/mountains in california).

Take the example of NYC. What percentage of the population own cars? Pretty low right? Because people can walk/bike/whatever and then take the subway or taxi or bus or whatever they'd like.

I think the reason so few Americans use bicycles for transportation is that few areas of the country have a decent train/subway system. Americans live too far from all the places they'd like to go to to get there completely by bicycle. And there are no decent train systems for them to use for the longer trips, and so they just hop in a car.

When I lived in Japan, I never even considered wanting a car. Here in the USA, even though I live near San Francisco where there is some public transportation, I can not even imagine not having a car. My world would be way too small (besides, there are way too many hills/mountains in california).

Take the example of NYC. What percentage of the population own cars? Pretty low right? Because people can walk/bike/whatever and then take the subway or taxi or bus or whatever they'd like.

Newsflash: No one has to swear off the ownership or use of a privately owned motor vehicle in order to use a bicycle for transportation purposes. Nor does anyone who chooses to use a bicycle for transportation purposes have to swear an oath of allegiance to only use public transportation if/when a bicycle is not suitable for the transportation task.

Heck, a transportation bicyclist is even allowed to be indifferent to environmental and social impacts of automobile ownership or usage. Some might even spit on the sidewalk when cycling. Believe it or don't!

Newsflash: No one has to swear off the ownership or use of a privately owned motor vehicle in order to use a bicycle for transportation purposes. Nor does anyone who chooses to use a bicycle for transportation purposes have to swear an oath of allegiance to only use public transportation if/when a bicycle is not suitable for the transportation task.

Heck, a transportation bicyclist is even allowed to be indifferent to environmental and social impacts of automobile ownership or usage. Some might even spit on the sidewalk when cycling. Believe it or don't!

Riding a bike isn't just transportation, it's a political statement, it's an act of devotion, and it's being a good wholesome role model. Haven't you figured that out yet in all your time here? sheesh.

Riding a bike isn't just transportation, it's a political statement, it's an act of devotion, and it's being a good wholesome role model. Haven't you figured that out yet in all your time here? sheesh.

And sometimes riding a bike is just riding a bike, and that is good enough for some bicyclists. Not all of us need to justify our cycling with the pretense of being a member of a noble cause.

and sometimes bicyclists are not happy with the state of cycling ease in their communities, recognize other communities provide better for their citizens so others can 'just ride a bike'.

And sometimes riding a bike is just riding a bike, and that is good enough for some bicyclists. Not all of us need to justify our cycling with the pretense of being a member of a noble cause.

The idea that cycling is a regular, every day activity performed by regular, everyday people is no way to encourage anyone to take it up. It has to be SPECIAL!!

The idea that cycling is a regular, every day activity performed by regular, everyday people is no way to encourage anyone to take it up. It has to be SPECIAL!!

Everyone already thinks bicycling is SPECIAL!!. We smile, wave, and say "Good morning" to each other as we ride past one another - and if you don't, you're obviously a pompous jerk or a pretentious loser. We're also special in that we don't belong on the roads like cars do.

Thankthelordwe'resospecial.

The idea that cycling is a regular, every day activity performed by regular, everyday people is no way to encourage anyone to take it up. It has to be SPECIAL!!

This is just riding a bike in my mind. Notice that none of them have halos.

Hey, arguing men... did anybody but me look at these links supplied in post 199?

The first is this interview with Janet Sadik-Khan, the current head of the NYC DOT:
http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/10/22...khan/#comments

The second is this study out of Portland about the relationship between bike lanes and cycling:
http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/10/20...people-riding/

i just watched the NYC film.

Reclaim the streets!

This is just riding a bike in my mind. Notice that none of them have halos.

Yup, you only need halos when you try to mix with the 3000 lb chariots. :rolleyes:

Hey notice how many more folks on bikes you tend to see when halos aren't needed. No pajama clothing either or skin tights either. And those folks all look like regular folks, not superhero wannabees.

Funny thing about that, eh?

But apparently some folks DO have to wear a halo and skin suit... see this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU4nKKq02BU

i just watched the NYC film.

Reclaim the streets!

Pretty cool, eh? Enable people, control motor traffic and gives the place a bit of character, vice just the cement canyons.

The first is this interview with Janet Sadik-Khan, the current head of the NYC DOT:
http://la.streetsblog.org/2008/10/22...khan/#commentsYea, that is what I really want to do. Go sit out in the middle of the street between traffic, relax and breath in all those motor exhaust. What fun and so healthy for you.:rolleyes:

Yea, that is what I really want to do. Go sit out in the middle of the street between traffic, relax and breath in all those motor exhaust. What fun and so healthy for you.:rolleyes:

And so very different from riding a bike in traffic and pulling up behind the stopped cars at a red light and acting dutifully like a driver of a vehicle. Oh sure like you don't suck in exhaust while breathing deeply as you pedal down that same shared road. :rolleyes:



Sure while you may have tourist craved palm trees, blue skies and coastal breezes, bear in mine that Hawaii is only one of the 50 states, and NYC is the largest city in the US.

Hey, arguing men... did anybody but me look at these links supplied in post 199?


I rarely follow any links in these threads. Far too many statictics and videos of Very Serious People.

Yup, you only need halos when you try to mix with the 3000 lb chariots. :rolleyes:

Hey notice how many more folks on bikes you tend to see when halos aren't needed. No pajama clothing either or skin tights either. And those folks all look like regular folks, not superhero wannabees.

Funny thing about that, eh?

But apparently some folks DO have to wear a halo and skin suit... see this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rU4nKKq02BU

The desire to be special is as much responsible for asking for special facilities as it is for thinking special skills are needed.

And so very different from riding a bike in traffic and pulling up behind the stopped cars at a red light and acting dutifully like a driver of a vehicle. Oh sure like you don't suck in exhaust while breathing deeply as you pedal down that same shared road. :rolleyes:



Sure while you may have tourist craved palm trees, blue skies and coastal breezes, bear in mine that Hawaii is only one of the 50 states, and NYC is the largest city in the US.Actually it is. Some time ago someone linked to the study that showed road users in the center lanes suck in more pollutants than those in the outside lanes. Cyclist were found to suck in even fewer pollutants because our heads are higher than the average motorist, as well as our heavier breathing did not allow the larger particulates to settle in our lungs.

Really, who would have ever guessed.:rolleyes: Especially someone like me, who has only been in 48 of the 50 states. Maybe someday, I can make it to all the 57 states Obama has visited.;)

how pathetic to attempt to smear a presidential candidate in a discussion about vehicular cycling's *********** effect on american cycling participation.

but since it's the *********** effect of vc that cbhi is attempting to illustrate, he's doing an admirable job at it!

how pathetic to attempt to smear a presidential candidate His words, not mine.:p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

No sense of humor, Bek.:lol:

The desire to be special is as much responsible for asking for special facilities as it is for thinking special skills are needed.

Narcissistic cyclists striving to be something "oh-so-special" and deserving of special favors or accolades come in all flavors. All are pompous, arrogant or downright silly, some more than others:



I am more like a virus that has "figured out" how to exploit weaknesses in a huge metropolitan creature. I flow through it's arteries between it's cells of traffic as signal lights create a false pulse that I care not to follow. I am a size and shape more fitting to those veins than the cells it was designed for in the first place. The physiology of that creature and it's self defining rules of life do not apply to me and my kind.

Do I feel superior as I glide like plasma through fat, sluggish, spewing, expensive, mindless, ego-structured metal and glass cells idling in their own toxic waste? Nah.

In context at: http://67.201.16.77/showthread.php?t=478577

BTW, just for joejack... this report from Time Magazine October 27th. Page 17, in the "Briefing" column, as reported from The Chinese Ministry of Environmental Protection.


Clearing the Air, Again
For two months this summer, The Chinese capital saw some of its clearest skies in a decade, thanks to antipollution measures in place for the Olympics and Paralympics. But when restrictions were lifted Sept. 21, pollution returned. Beijing has now reinstated Olympic traffic rules that ban easch of the cities 3.5 million cars one day a week, on the basis of license -plate number. The plan may take 800,000 cars off the road.

Hmmmm, wonder how those folks are going to get around on the days they are banned from driving? I wonder too what this will do to the growth potential of the auto in Beijing. Seems to me that the government is NOT encouraging the uptake of the automobile in that country.

BTW, just for joejack... this report from Time Magazine October 27th. Page 17, in the "Briefing" column, as reported from The Chinese Ministry of Environmental Protection.



Hmmmm, wonder how those folks are going to get around on the days they are banned from driving? I wonder too what this will do to the growth potential of the auto in Beijing. Seems to me that the government is NOT encouraging the uptake of the automobile in that country.

Automobile traffic was obviously chosen as low hanging fruit for cleaning up the air. Given the downturn in the economy, it's likely that on those days where car use is banned, those workers just won't go to work, or they'll carpool or take the bus or subway.

Get back to me when the government starts prohibiting the sale of the new automobiles in the country.

Automobile traffic was obviously chosen as low hanging fruit for cleaning up the air. Given the downturn in the economy, it's likely that on those days where car use is banned, those workers just won't go to work, or they'll carpool or take the bus or subway.

Ah, obviously. Or at least obviously likely.


Get back to me when the government starts prohibiting the sale of the new automobiles in the country.

Why? What are you going to do?

Why? What are you going to do?

I'll start agreeing with Gene, of course :)

I'll start agreeing with Gene, of course :)

If that's not reason enough for the Chinese government to act, I don't know what is.

Automobile traffic was obviously chosen as low hanging fruit for cleaning up the air. Given the downturn in the economy, it's likely that on those days where car use is banned, those workers just won't go to work, or they'll carpool or take the bus or subway.

Get back to me when the government starts prohibiting the sale of the new automobiles in the country.

Let's just say the government is not exactly encouraging motoring... ;)

I think it shows the chinese government hasn't suckled up to the pump like american government policies have!

Yes, if america began to ban private cars one day a week from big city cores based on license plate numbers the weaknesses in our autocentric communiites (like honolulu) would become glaringly apparent as people called in sick once a week! (hhahaahaha as if the chinese could do that, joe!) because they couldn't get to work without their cars!

america's been sucking on the gas hose a bit too long and a bit too hard in this country. investment in liveable ,walkable, bikeable, transit rich communities is sorrily given second shrift to highway and road expansion projects.

it's good to see some US communities moving past the auto-hysteria streetscapes that swept america in the last century.

I think it shows the chinese government hasn't suckled up to the pump like american government policies have!



Well, that, and the fact that they are unkeen on unrestricted public freedom...

Wonder if there are many VC proponents in china?

Well, that, and the fact that they are unkeen on unrestricted public freedom...

Wonder if there are many VC proponents in china?

Somewhat of a side issue... but I wonder if there are VC proponents in places like Finland, or Denmark or Germany or Amsterdam or anywhere else where there is already a high level of bicycle transportation ridership?

Now in places like the US and England, where bike ridership is around 1% of all transportation trips... there are VC proponents.

Inside, I am chuckling at the concept of someone advocating "take the lane" in Oulu... :rolleyes:

Somewhat of a side issue... but I wonder if there are VC proponents in places like Finland, or Denmark or Germany or Amsterdam or anywhere else where there is already a high level of bicycle transportation ridership?

Now in places like the US and England, where bike ridership is around 1% of all transportation trips... there are VC proponents.

Inside, I am chuckling at the concept of someone advocating "take the lane" in Oulu... :rolleyes:

Excellent points. There's no need to fuss about lane-taking or whatever in places where there are already dedicated bike networks throughout the city. For Americans, who may have no concept of what it's like to ride without worrying about cars, think about how often you think about taking the lane when riding on an MUP.

Exactly. :D

Given all the discussion of the attitudes of cyclists in Europe and China, you might be interested in these three radio programmes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/fallandriseofthebicycle/
(You can link to the actual shows and listen online via the 'find a broadcast' links on the right).

The second programme is about London and Copenhagen, and includes a courier in Copenhagen getting frustrated about how slow it is to get around on the bike lanes, and how motorists react badly to bikes on the roads.

The last programme is about China, and demonstrates how the Chinese are deserting their bikes in droves for cars - and how the government are actually restricting bike riding on some roads in order to make it more convenient for driving.

As an observation; the most cycle-friendly cities (Copenhagen and Amsterdam) not only invest heavily in cycle infrastructure they also have some geographical advantages - they are flat, compact, and generally have populations that live alongside the commercial areas. This is very different to the US (and Australia, where I am), where people tend to live some distance away from commercial areas in sprawling suburbs (which are also hilly, at least here in Sydney!). The cycle culture in Denmark and Amsterdam was there long before there were bike lanes; it is not a new phenomenon. Creating a cycling culture in areas where the geography is less suitable takes a lot more than building Amsterdam-esque MUPs in the city centres. The only place I can think of that has attempted this is Finland, where they have a wider network of higher-speed bike routes necessary for making traffic-separated bicycle commuting practical over distances of more than a few kilometres. I've not cycled there, however, so I don't know first hand how effective it is.

As an aside, I see Portland mentioned often on this site as being a good example of a US city with high cycling participation rates. How is the population distribution? Lots of urban dwellings distributed throughout the city, or mainly suburbs with an exclusively commercial city centre? If it's the latter, then it's a real achievement to get people cycling.