Living Car Free - Cost of Driving Car Lite

I've been tracking auto expenses practically since I started driving. This year our around-town car (a 1999 Subaru Outback) has about the same number of miles on it as my bike, 1721. The car was due for its periodic maintenance earlier in the year, which cost about $1300. With insurance and other fixed costs added in, we've spent $1913.97 on the car this year, for an average per-mile cost of $1.11.

In contrast, my work vehicle (a 1992 Toyoto pickup) has 14,015 miles this year, total expenses $3357.03, for a per-mile cost of $0.24. I'm self-employed, and try very hard to keep personal and business use completely separate.

It's getting harder to justify having two vehicles, but my wife doesn't want to be left without any car when I'm out of town for a week at a time. She walks to work, as does my at-home son, but there are occasional needs to travel too far in too short a time or at odd hours to make biking or public transit practical.

One of the things that surprises me is that I don't see people analyzing car costs in terms of fixed cost plus marginal cost (that is, cost per year to have a car ready to drive, at zero miles... and then cost per added mile after that).

What it comes down to is that it tends to be expensive to have a car ready to drive but once you do, the cost of adding one mile may be very low.

Insurance and registration costs are there regardless of whether you drive, so they don't figure much into the "what does it cost to add one more mile of driving" equation. Depreciation and maintenance costs are partly by-the-mile but they also both hit cars that are left sitting still, to some degree.

I've been tracking auto expenses practically since I started driving. This year our around-town car (a 1999 Subaru Outback) has about the same number of miles on it as my bike, 1721. The car was due for its periodic maintenance earlier in the year, which cost about $1300. With insurance and other fixed costs added in, we've spent $1913.97 on the car this year, for an average per-mile cost of $1.11.


It's getting harder to justify having two vehicles, but my wife doesn't want to be left without any car when I'm out of town for a week at a time. She walks to work, as does my at-home son, but there are occasional needs to travel too far in too short a time or at odd hours to make biking or public transit practical.


What's up with the $1300 "periodic maintenance " ?? :eek: Are you slowly rebuilding this vehicle?
If not you're getting skinned by the folks doing the work. :twitchy:

As to a second car......
There are many ways to handle this. A neighbor close by, dropping all insurance exept PL&PD etc.
All you have to do is look for a solution. Much can be done on the telephone,shopping, help etc.
Whatever it is ,since you're "out of town for a week at a time" don't let the choice to keep a car
for you wifes use come down to just $$$$. The first time she really needs a car and doesn't have
one to use and it goes badly those $$$$ will seem like peanuts. Can you live with that??

I hope I'm not threadjacking here...

I'm about to cross a somewhat similar bridge. My car insurance renewal is coming up and my car hasn't turned a wheel in a long time. I have a problem paying an insurance company for a policy just in case I decide to use my car. I know there are insurance companies that sell policies that are cheap for car collectors and secondary vehicles that see little usage. Does anyone know of something similar when it is your only (primary) vehicle? I would love to cancel my policy completely and never drive the car, but living in the Los Angeles area there are times that you just need to drive unfortunately. Any ideas are very welcome. :)

... Any ideas are very welcome. :)

sell the car, buy a scooter or small motorcycle in the 250cc range.

You can add saddle bags, or had bags, and even a hard case on the back for cargo (keeps stuff dry).

but living in the Los Angeles area there are times that you just need to drive unfortunately. Any ideas are very welcome. :)

We'd be glad to give you some ideas, but first we need to know...

What are the occasions when you "just need to drive"?

Technically speaking the word "need" is a bit of an overstatement and "prefer" is more accurate. Some occasions are making a day trip somewhere that is a bit too far to be practical by bike, picking up lumber (or other similar supplies) from Home Depot, any time I need to go to a specialty store that the nearest one is an hour or more ride away. I'm a single dude and I've gone on dates on my bike with some great results, but there are definitely times when it would be nicer to arrive without being sweaty, having to wipe down in the bathroom, or having to carry a bag of some sort with me. I commute to/from work right now, but there is a chance in the future that won't be practical for reasons that are beyond my control. I guess it comes down it's nice to have a car as a backup, but paying some huge insurance premium for that just isn't worth it. I know I can rent a car/truck if I really need it. It really comes down to money. The cost of rentals and cab rides vs. the cost of keeping my car insured and ready to drive. If I could find cheap insurance for my car I would pay more for that than the cost of rentals/cabs, but not the multiples more that it costs with my present insurance. I'm presently extremely car-lite and really like it that way (car hasn't moved in a few months). I don't intend to go 100% car-free, but would like to save as much $$$ as possible and be as car-lite as possible.

How about sell this car (not sure if you're making payments or not) and buy something of a late model that you can have paid off. Then just have liability insurance on it.

Technically speaking the word "need" is a bit of an overstatement and "prefer" is more accurate. Some occasions are making a day trip somewhere that is a bit too far to be practical by bike, picking up lumber (or other similar supplies) from Home Depot, any time I need to go to a specialty store that the nearest one is an hour or more ride away. I'm a single dude and I've gone on dates on my bike with some great results, but there are definitely times when it would be nicer to arrive without being sweaty, having to wipe down in the bathroom, or having to carry a bag of some sort with me. I commute to/from work right now, but there is a chance in the future that won't be practical for reasons that are beyond my control. I guess it comes down it's nice to have a car as a backup, but paying some huge insurance premium for that just isn't worth it. I know I can rent a car/truck if I really need it. It really comes down to money. The cost of rentals and cab rides vs. the cost of keeping my car insured and ready to drive. If I could find cheap insurance for my car I would pay more for that than the cost of rentals/cabs, but not the multiples more that it costs with my present insurance. I'm presently extremely car-lite and really like it that way (car hasn't moved in a few months). I don't intend to go 100% car-free, but would like to save as much $$$ as possible and be as car-lite as possible.

How about Zipcar or some other car share?

If you are truly only using your car once every few months, even renting a car when you need one should be cheaper than the overhead (insurance, periodic maintenance, depreciation) of the one that sits in your driveway.

Zipcar might be an option as there's one normally parked only about 1/2 mile away. We need to learn more about it and other car shares. We have no car payments, having paid cash at time of purchase for used vehicles. Our $1300 maintenance was an accumulation of deferred maintenance and should carry us for another 30K or so miles. We were a committed one-car family until I became self-employed 15 years ago. We drove the "personal" car more when the in-laws lived 550 miles away; now my mother-in-law is just one mile away.

What's up with the $1300 "periodic maintenance " ?? :eek: Are you slowly rebuilding this vehicle?

I have spent more than that this year on my car what with the clutch, struts, and two tires being replaced. Also, I pay someone $31 per 3000 miles to change my oil, because I am too lazy to do it.

I guess the distributor and main relay don't count as periodic maintenance.

I've been tracking auto expenses practically since I started driving. This year our around-town car (a 1999 Subaru Outback) has about the same number of miles on it as my bike, 1721. The car was due for its periodic maintenance earlier in the year, ...

Wait... what? 1700 miles in eight years and it was due for some maintenance? What kind of maintenance needs to be done at less than even 5000 miles? Just a timing belt due to its age, I'm guessing?

At the rate you're going, and if it's good for another 30K, you won't need any more work on it until... let's see, at 1700mi per every 9 years... oh, the year 2150 or so. ;)

Wait... what? 1700 miles in eight years and it was due for some maintenance?

You misunderstood. The car has been driven 1700 miles in 2008. It's got about 85,000 miles total. The really unusual maintenance item this year was replacing the instrument cluster when the speedo failed.

Ohhh, ok. Makes complete sense now. You've got about 17 years before another big maintenance bill, then. ;)

Other than the usual licensing, insurance, two tanks of gas per year, I had to replace all four tires and an oil change on my SUV this year to the tune of four hundred dollars. The tires had been on the SUV for nine years, and had to be replaced because of cracked sidewalls.

There's little point in counting "depreciation" as part of the yearly cost of owning a car. Once you've paid for it, the money's gone. It's like when people talk about the increased values of their houses 30 years later as reasons for purchasing instead of renting. Unless you plan to constantly sell and resell, depreciation or added value shouldn't be a factor in your purchasing decisions.

It's like when people talk about the increased values of their houses 30 years later as reasons for purchasing instead of renting. Unless you plan to sell and resell, depreciation or added value shouldn't be a factor in your purchasing decisions.

Home ownership is very different from owning a car. As far as purchasing vs. renting a home, I'd rather own and gain several tens of thousands of dollars in the end -- heck, even after just ten years -- than a mere security deposit that gets eaten up by repairs charged by a landlord.

Rented for years, and had nothing to show for it. I got lucky, so it was time to own. As long as DC doesn't get nuked, I've got a good nest egg now.

Home ownership is very different from owning a car. As far as purchasing vs. renting a home, I'd rather own and gain several tens of thousands of dollars in the end -- heck, even after just ten years -- than a mere security deposit that gets eaten up by repairs charged by a landlord.

Rented for years, and had nothing to show for it. I got lucky, so it was time to own. As long as DC doesn't get nuked, I've got a good nest egg now.

+1

If we do sell our home, it's now worth four times it's original price, but our main reason for owning is not have to end up like my wife's parents. They rented an apartment for twenty plus years only having to be evicted when the property was sold, ended up to paying fifty percent more rent for a much older and poorly maintained apartment that was thirty percent smaller.

Rented for years, and had nothing to show for it. I got lucky, so it was time to own.

I'm all for owning a home if the conditions are right. My point is that purchasing a home and prattling about how much it will be worth if I decide to sell it 50 years from now is a silly reason to buy a home, as the purpose of buying a home for most people isn't to make fast (or slow) cash on it, but to have a stable place to spend the rest of their lives in.

It's like when you give young kids an allowance and they start talking about all the expensive stuff they'd be able to buy if they saved every penny for a year. It's unrealistic. Buy a home or a car if you want, but don't buy it and start bemoaning or celebrating futuristic increases or decreases in value. That's not why you buy a car. That's not why you buy a home. With that mentality, you might as well be renting.

It's just one of those small things that I sometimes notice. We spend a lot of time fixated on imaginary gains or losses in the far-off future that shouldn't have anything to do with our decisions in the present.

I'm all for owning a home if the conditions are right. My point is that purchasing a home and prattling about how much it will be worth if I decide to sell it 50 years from now is a silly reason to buy a home, as the purpose of buying a home for most people isn't to make fast (or slow) cash on it, but to have a stable place to spend the rest of their lives in.

Right. I was paying rent to live in mine when I moved in in late 2002, and it went up for sale within four months. I thought about moving to an apartment, but figured out that I wouldn't be spending any more per month if I purchased, so I said screw the renting thing, I'm gonna buy. By the time I leave in another twelve years or so, I could either sell it or rent it out.

Like I said, I really did get lucky. I wouldn't be able to afford the same place if I purchased now because of how much the value has gone up already. And, if I had moved and continued renting, the local market would've still gone up and I would have had to eventually move out of the Capitol Hill area -- which I really didn't want to do.

Technically speaking the word "need" is a bit of an overstatement and "prefer" is more accurate. Some occasions are making a day trip somewhere that is a bit too far to be practical by bike, picking up lumber (or other similar supplies) from Home Depot, any time I need to go to a specialty store that the nearest one is an hour or more ride away. I'm a single dude and I've gone on dates on my bike with some great results, but there are definitely times when it would be nicer to arrive without being sweaty, having to wipe down in the bathroom, or having to carry a bag of some sort with me. I commute to/from work right now, but there is a chance in the future that won't be practical for reasons that are beyond my control. I guess it comes down it's nice to have a car as a backup, but paying some huge insurance premium for that just isn't worth it. I know I can rent a car/truck if I really need it. It really comes down to money. The cost of rentals and cab rides vs. the cost of keeping my car insured and ready to drive. If I could find cheap insurance for my car I would pay more for that than the cost of rentals/cabs, but not the multiples more that it costs with my present insurance. I'm presently extremely car-lite and really like it that way (car hasn't moved in a few months). I don't intend to go 100% car-free, but would like to save as much $$$ as possible and be as car-lite as possible.

I think I understand. You want the convenience of having a car, but you don't want to pay for it. OTOH, you're scared that if you give up the car, some improbable catastrophe is going to happen and you'll have to admit that you made the wrong decision. So why don't you keep the car for now, keep whining about the money you have to spend on it, and see if you can make a grown-up decision at some point in the future.

Good luck.

I think I understand. You want the convenience of having a car, but you don't want to pay for it. OTOH, you're scared that if you give up the car, some improbable catastrophe is going to happen and you'll have to admit that you made the wrong decision. So why don't you keep the car for now, keep whining about the money you have to spend on it, and see if you can make a grown-up decision at some point in the future.

Good luck.

Here I was foolish for thinking that there could be a discussion that doesn't degrade into insults. I've already made my decision prior to your oh so helpful input. Some people were kind enough to introduce me to Zipcar, which I wasn't aware of. Very cool idea and something I intend to make use of when appropriate. This thread had been rather grown up and productive prior to this latest comment. Good luck to you as well.

I think I understand. You want the convenience of having a car, but you don't want to pay for it. OTOH, you're scared that if you give up the car, some improbable catastrophe is going to happen and you'll have to admit that you made the wrong decision. So why don't you keep the car for now, keep whining about the money you have to spend on it, and see if you can make a grown-up decision at some point in the future.

Good luck.
Heck, Roody, I spend money on things of my own choosing all the time and still reserve the right to whine about the cost. It's the American Way!

Adam, check into whether your insurance company will insure your car as a "pleasure vehicle." I've got a friend in DC who saves quite a bit on his policy that way because he and his wife drive less than [some number of] miles every year.

I'm presently extremely car-lite and really like it that way (car hasn't moved in a few months). I don't intend to go 100% car-free, but would like to save as much $$$ as possible and be as car-lite as possible.

Keep searching for policies, or consider sharing a policy with a friend or family member. I'm covered under my parents' plan, which means I never see a bill. The car is theirs, but it stays with me in a different state. If you can get a similar setup, I'd recommend it.

Adam, check into whether your insurance company will insure your car as a "pleasure vehicle." I've got a friend in DC who saves quite a bit on his policy that way because he and his wife drive less than [some number of] miles every year.

My insurance agent also suggested changing my car to be a "pleasure vehicle", now I just need to find how to have pleasure while driving. :) It definitely lowers the cost of the premium, but obviously limits your mileage. I've even found an insurance company that will write people policies that have no drivers license at all. Don't ask me how that works.


Keep searching for policies, or consider sharing a policy with a friend or family member. I'm covered under my parents' plan, which means I never see a bill. The car is theirs, but it stays with me in a different state. If you can get a similar setup, I'd recommend it.

Good idea, and not something I had considered. Thanks all for sharing your ideas, it's definitely helped me make a more informed decision.

I've even found an insurance company that will write people policies that have no drivers license at all.

They might have a clause that says the insurance only applies when a licensed driver is driving.

A person could certainly buy a car and insure it just for the purpose of having someone else drive them around in it and/or being able to loan it out.