Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Fixed gear-Question about brakes.

I have a frame that I am going to use for my fixed gear. The front brake hole has been terribly disfigured and I will not be able to mount a front brake on the bike. Are there any draw backs to only having a back brake on a fixed gear? Thanks.

You don't need brakes on a fixed gear. Don't worry about you will do fine. But to answer your question your legs are your back brake, you don't need a weighted down substance to add to that.

From Sheldon Brown (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html):

Braking

Some fixed-gear riders ride on the road without brakes. This is a bad idea. I know, I've tried it. If you do it, and have any sense of self-preservation at all, it will cause you to go much slower than you otherwise could, everytime you go through an intersection, or pass a driveway. The need for constant extra vigilance takes a great deal of the fun out of cycling.

You really should have a front brake. A front brake, all by itself, will stop a bicycle as fast as it is possible to stop. This is true because when you are applying the front brake to the maximum, there is no weight on the rear wheel, so it has no traction.

One of the wonderful things about fixed-gear riding is that the direct feel you get for rear-wheel traction teaches you exactly how hard you can apply the front brake without quite lifting the wheel off of the ground.

This is a very valuable lesson for any cyclist who likes to go fast; it could save your life.

There is really no need for a rear brake on a fixed-gear bicycle. By applying back-pressure on the pedals, you can supply all the braking that the rear wheel really needs. In fact, it is fairly easy to lock up the rear wheel and make it skid, unless you are running a rather high gear.

Some fixed-gear fans make a point of not using their brake except in an emergency. I am not sure that this is a good idea. Heavy duty resisting is widely reputed to be bad for your legs, and to be counterproductive for building up muscles and coordination for forward pedaling. Google for "eccentric contraction" for more on this topic. Eccentric contraction is reputed to cause micro-tears to your muscle tissue, so it actually weakens your muscles, unlike other forms of exercise.

This is a lot like car drivers who use their transmission and clutch to slow down, even though the car has a special set of parts made for the exact purpose of slowing down. Brake shoes are cheaper to replace when they wear out than clutches are.

Skip Stops

Brakeless riders generally need to master a technique called the "skip stop." This is a way that you can actually lock up the rear wheel using your legs alone.

* If you lock one leg at the bottom of the pedal stroke, as the pedal rises it will start to lift your body upward.

* When the cranks get horizontal, pull up on the front pedal, while pushing down on the rear one.

* Because your body will have acquired upward momentum, when you yank up with the front foot this will temporarily partially unweight the rear wheel, making it possible to initiate a skid.

Since sliding friction is less than sticking friction, once the tire starts to skid, you will generally be able to maintain the skid until you've stopped or at least slowed down as much as you want to.

You have to really want to do it, you can't be tentative! It's easier when you're going faster.

The lower your gear , the more effectively you can "brake" by resisting with your legs.

Despite what some folks will tell you, you can not stop nearly as short this way as you can by using a good front brake.

See my article on Braking and Turning for a detailed explanation of this.

Riding brakeless is not nearly as dangerous for the average strapping young lad as it would have been for sheldon I imagine, but yeah this is bf brakes are mandatory etc etc.

If you've never ridden a fixed gear before, please put on a ****ing brake. That's break, for this forum.

To summarize this thread:

The majority of people will say that you should run a front brake.

There will be a few people who will defend brakeless riding.

There will be a long argument about the pros/cons of riding brakeless.

Riding brakeless is not nearly as dangerous for the average strapping young lad as it would have been for sheldon I imagine, but yeah this is bf brakes are mandatory etc etc.

I believe that up until Sheldon could not ride a bike he would have ridden most, if not all of us into the ground.

If you have ever looked at his personal gearing charts and choices you would know he was an exceptionally strong rider.

And +1000 to what edw said.

How about a picture? I would be worried that any damage that makes you unable to mount a brake could mean that the fork isn't safe to ride on.

I have a frame that I am going to use for my fixed gear. The front brake hole has been terribly disfigured and I will not be able to mount a front brake on the bike. Are there any draw backs to only having a back brake on a fixed gear? Thanks.

Get a fork with brake posts, get a canti and good to go. Back brake on a fixed gear is basically pointless.

I have a frame that I am going to use for my fixed gear. The front brake hole has been terribly disfigured and I will not be able to mount a front brake on the bike. Are there any draw backs to only having a back brake on a fixed gear? Thanks.

Ride with a brake. Get a kit for undrilled forks...



http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=188_482&zenid=dc057a97776fbc6109e1d7e788578b90

If ur tryin to save a buck, then throw on that rearbrake. It just wont be as sexy as a wireless bike would be!!

^ ugh, ignore this

get a new fork if the frame is worth it. if it's a piece of hi-tensile junk, then go looking for a new frameset, 'cause there's no reason to dump money into a turd.

^ always with the nonsense about not dumping money into a hi-ten bike

You can get a cheap fork online for about $20.That's cheaper than a new frame,even a ****y one.

You could try face braking but the full-body brake stops you even faster.

Alternatively, carry an 18-inch length of rebar and shove it into the spokes of your front wheel in an emergency or if you see a hot chick walking down the sidewalk.

bf

It it makes you feel more comfortable to ride with a brake, please do. Nothing sadder than somebody doing something for the sake of appearances only.

A rear brake is less effective than a front brake, but a decent rear brake can be effective.

Cars and other bicycles have brakes, which is like herd immunity. Don't sweat it.

http://www.nyc.com/image/users/blogs/2575.jpg

^ always with the nonsense about not dumping money into a hi-ten bike

You can get a cheap fork online for about $20.That's cheaper than a new frame,even a ****y one.

Fair enough

But I do think it's fair to reiterate that a seriously crappy frame is usually not worth the effort. And it is not nonsense at all to reiterate that.

Get a fork with brake posts, get a canti and good to go. Back brake on a fixed gear is basically pointless.


You don't need brakes on a fixed gear. Don't worry about you will do fine. But to answer your question your legs are your back brake, you don't need a weighted down substance to add to that.

unless you've ridden a rear brake, don't say that. Rear brakes don't make as much of a diff as a front but it is not pointless.

Bottom line is: if you think you need a brake, then you do. BUT, (I think) this should simply be a precursor to eventually not having to have a brake.

I don't have a problem with people who ride FG with a brake. My problem is the people who never aspire to ride without one in the future & then make excuses to make themselves feel better. Train yourself. Be safe in the process. Graduate to the point where you are confident riding without a brake. Period.

I don't have a problem with people who ride FG with a brake. My problem is the people who never aspire to ride without one in the future & then make excuses to make themselves feel better. Train yourself. Be safe in the process. Graduate to the point where you are confident riding without a brake. Period.

I have absolutely zero interest in riding brakeless. I'm not even really interested in owning an actual track frame right now as the miyata conversion I'm riding is built around a nicer frame than a kilo or hour or whatever, which are the only "track" frames I could afford right now. I don't make any excuses as to why I'm not riding sans brake, either to myself or to idiots that feel that I should conform to their opinions by removing my brake. Why am I a problem to you?

back on topic, what frame do you have prach?

Bigbris is the reason I pretend I run a brake on bfssfg.

Bottom line is: if you think you need a brake, then you do. BUT, (I think) this should simply be a precursor to eventually not having to have a brake.

I don't have a problem with people who ride FG with a brake. My problem is the people who never aspire to ride without one in the future & then make excuses to make themselves feel better. Train yourself. Be safe in the process. Graduate to the point where you are confident riding without a brake. Period.

you are such a tool

It takes ten seconds to add anyone to the ignore function. Highly recommended for tool avoidance on BF.

I have absolutely zero interest in riding brakeless. I'm not even really interested in owning an actual track frame right now as the miyata conversion I'm riding is built around a nicer frame than a kilo or hour or whatever, which are the only "track" frames I could afford right now. I don't make any excuses as to why I'm not riding sans brake, either to myself or to idiots that feel that I should conform to their opinions by removing my brake. Why am I a problem to you?

back on topic, what frame do you have prach?



My problem with you is why did you convert the frame? Why not set that up as a proper roadie, then?

you are such a tool

Explain why.

this is just such a stupid argument, because the pro-brake people will ALWAYS win. if you wanna ride with no brakes because its more fun for you, then go for it! who cares? why feel the need to defend yourself? i ride brakeless most of the time, but never once have i ever felt the urge to claim it's better in any way over riding with a brake, because it isn't.

and besides, most people are riding brakeless solely for aesthetic reasons anyway. trying to bring any other factors into the argument is more or less bull****.

For most of you...

HE'S ASKING HOW EFFECTIVE THE REAR BRAKE IS. NOT IF HE SHOULD RUN A BRAKE OR NOT.

My problem with you is why did you convert the frame? Why not set that up as a proper roadie, then?

I have both, dude. I built the fixed first because I needed a bike to get around and fixed has better control in the winter. My road bike is full DA too, so its pretty proper.

I still don't understand why you think its a mortal sin to ride fixed with a brake. You are the fixed gear equivalent of a right-wing politician trying to make decisions for people based on their own nonsensical opinions.

bigbris+palin 2008

Prach, get a new fork and run a front brake. The rear doesn't offer as much stopping power. Dual pivots tend to offer more stopping power and modulation than a single pivot. Tange makes some ugly but decent road forks for like $40-50 bucks. Make sure the steerer is the right size.

People can ride whatever they like, whenever they like, their choice. I just don't get WHY people choose FG then add a brake.

I have a frame that I am going to use for my fixed gear. The front brake hole has been terribly disfigured and I will not be able to mount a front brake on the bike. Are there any draw backs to only having a back brake on a fixed gear? Thanks.

Post a pic of the brake hole please.

People can ride whatever they like, whenever they like, their choice. I just don't get WHY people choose FG then add a brake.

I think that people have been telling you the WHY for a very long time and it pretty much boils down to being able to cut one's stopping distance in about half.

That's pretty simple.

That's a cop out & you know it 65.

WOW, anytime a brake question is brought up there is always the same arguments going on.

I guess the best way to summarize the whole debate is down to personal preference. And is very similar to the helmet/no helmet debate. Some people hate wearing helmets and refuse too. They say things like "i haven't had a crash in 3 years of riding, I don't need one" They know it'll save their melon in a crash, but just don't wear it.

Also people get to feel quite safe after a long time without a crash/collision. So the feeling of a need for the helmet is reduced. But the problem is that there are these people called drivers, who sometimes get lazy, make maneuvers without looking or at night it is hard to see a bike (even with knogs).

These are the situations that are out of your control, where you need everything that can help you. I have had many times where somebody pulls out in front of me from a side street, or even other bikes coming out in front of me. The front brake comes in very handy in these situations, a rear brake would never had stopped me in time, yet alone if I had to stop with my legs!

Of course it's your choice to go brake-less, like it's your choice to not wear a helmet, but don't try to fool anyone into thinking it is any less safe.

People can ride whatever they like, whenever they like, their choice. I just don't get WHY people choose FG then add a brake.

What I don't get is why you always say 'it's your choice to run a brake, blah blah blah" and in the next sentence talk **** about anyone that makes the choice to run a brake.

Oh yeah, its because youre a tool.


And why is it a cop out to state that a brake cuts you stopping distance in half? it's simple physics at work.

That's a cop out & you know it 65.

dude, seriously, wtf is your problem?

WOW, anytime a brake question is brought up there is always the same arguments going on.

I guess the best way to summarize the whole debate is down to personal preference. And is very similar to the helmet/no helmet debate. Some people hate wearing helmets and refuse too. They say things like "i haven't had a crash in 3 years of riding, I don't need one" They know it'll save their melon in a crash, but just don't wear it.

Also people get to feel quite safe after a long time without a crash/collision. So the feeling of a need for the helmet is reduced. But the problem is that there are these people called drivers, who sometimes get lazy, make maneuvers without looking or at night it is hard to see a bike (even with knogs).

These are the situations that are out of your control, where you need everything that can help you. I have had many times where somebody pulls out in front of me from a side street, or even other bikes coming out in front of me. The front brake comes in very handy in these situations, a rear brake would never had stopped me in time, yet alone if I had to stop with my legs!

Of course it's your choice to go brake-less, like it's your choice to not wear a helmet, but don't try to fool anyone into thinking it is any less safe.

Well stated, thank you. There are people who most certainly should not be on the road without a brake.

Those same folks shouldn't be riding FG.

That's a cop out & you know it 65.

How is being able to stop in an emergency a cop out? Surely you know there are times where you need to stop suddenly! Even a rear brake could not stop you in time in an emergency!

How is being able to stop in an emergency a cop out? Surely you know there are times where you need to stop suddenly! Even a rear brake could not stop you in time in an emergency!

I never think stop, I think evasive maneuver. Name 3 instances where you would most certainly need a brake & I'll show you how to do it.

Well stated, thank you. There are people who most certainly should not be on the road without a brake.

Those same folks shouldn't be riding FG.

Laughable.

Why shouldn't I ride fixed? None of the arguments you are putting forth make a shred of sense.

A fixed gear is just a bike. Going from freewheel with brakes to fixed with brakes is hardly a big leap for any competent rider once you get used to not coasting. You still have to be aware of whats going on whether you ride fixed or not, otherwise you're going to get tagged by a car.

I never think stop, I think evasive maneuver. Name 3 instances where you would most certainly need a brake & I'll show you how to do it.

Maybe in the states you have really wide roads, but in Tokyo, we have quite narrow roads, I would love to be able to swerve to avoid a car or van that pulls out in front of me, but in heavy fast moving traffic with trucks passing you with very little space, it would be suicide to swerve out into the road!!!

Maybe in the states you have really wide roads, but in Tokyo, we have quite narrow roads, I would love to be able to swerve to avoid a car or van that pulls out in front of me, but in heavy fast moving traffic with trucks passing you with very little space, it would be suicide to swerve out into the road!!!

I don't know what the laws of the road are in Tokyo, but if the streets are narrow & your safety is at risk riding between say, parked cars & moving vehicles, you should occupy the lane space until you are safe, even if this means slowing up traffic.

Laughable.

Why shouldn't I ride fixed? None of the arguments you are putting forth make a shred of sense.

A fixed gear is just a bike. Going from freewheel with brakes to fixed with brakes is hardly a big leap for any competent rider once you get used to not coasting. You still have to be aware of whats going on whether you ride fixed or not, otherwise you're going to get tagged by a car.

It is quite a leap my friend, thanks for making my point.

unless you've ridden a rear brake, don't say that. Rear brakes don't make as much of a diff as a front but it is not pointless.

I said basically pointless. A rear brake only has very poor stopping ability and outside of providing the option of instant skids, which are the worst and least effictive way to stop, wont do much more to slow you down than having no brake. That being said IMO a fixed gear on the street should have a brake and a rear is better than nothing. And I have ridden rear brake only and it was basically pointless.

I don't know what the laws of the road are in Tokyo, but if the streets are narrow & your safety is at risk riding between say, parked cars & moving vehicles, you should occupy the lane space until you are safe, even if this means slowing up traffic.

Not parked cars, i am talking about when someone pulls out in front of you. this happened to me last week! And has happened several times since spring.

If it was a parked car, I would have plenty of time to see that I need to go around it and check behind me and merge with the traffic.

The situations where I was glad to have the brake were because someone pulls out right infront of me. The traffic is always heavy and fast, so it is seriously dangerous to just swerve around into the street. Can't swerve into the sidewalk because there is usually a high curb or barrier/fence.

If you have never had this kind of situation then lucky for you, but the streets are full of drivers that aren't quite as alert as we would like them to be. Just be aware of that.

1. I'm going ~25 in the right portion of the road, 50 mph traffic is whipping past me on the left, on the right is a 3 foot ditch and a driver pulling out of a parking lot 6 feet in front of me.

2. I'm sprinting full blast down a narrow street (narrow as in when two cars are driving in opposite directions, one has to pull over to let the other past) and a geriatric old lady in a buick barge turns left in front of me to pull into her driveway, notices me at the last minute, freaks out and stops dead in her tracks, blocking the whole road.

3. I'm on a 50/17 fixed towing a trailer with 120 pounds of old junk bikes and tools bombing down a unfamiliar, windy road. Unbeknowst to me until I turn the corner, there is a red light at the bottom and no gaps in oncoming traffic.

1&2 to happened to me in the past month, 3 happened to a friend.

How would you get out of these situations without brakes bris?

1. I'm going ~25 in the right portion of the road, 50 mph traffic is whipping past me on the left, on the right is a 3 foot ditch and a driver pulling out of a parking lot 6 feet in front of me.


Why are you riding on any road where cars are traveling at highway speeds?



2. I'm sprinting full blast down a narrow street (narrow as in when two cars are driving in opposite directions, one has to pull over to let the other past) and a geriatric old lady in a buick barge turns left in front of me to pull into her driveway, notices me at the last minute, freaks out and stops dead in her tracks, blocking the whole road.

Why would you ride full blast down this type of road?



3. I'm on a 50/17 fixed towing a trailer with 120 pounds of old junk bikes and tools bombing down a unfamiliar, windy road. Unbeknowst to me until I turn the corner, there is a red light at the bottom and no gaps in oncoming traffic.

Why would you bomb an unfamiliar road, AND be towing crap on a FG?

See this is just the type of stupidity I was thinking about when I took my position. Of course if you're the idiot riding like this you need help, not brakes.

I never think stop, I think evasive maneuver. Name 3 instances where you would most certainly need a brake & I'll show you how to do it.

You are bombing down a steep mountain pass being chased by a stampeed of buffalo. There's a sharp turn coming up and you lost your chain. You are going too fast make the turn and you really need to slow down to make it. You are barefoot an Ted Shredding is impossibe....

Why are you riding on any road where cars are traveling at highway speeds?



Why would you ride full blast down this type of road?



Why would you bomb an unfamiliar road, AND be towing crap on a FG?

See this is just the type of stupidity I was thinking about when I took my position. Of course if you're the idiot riding like this you need help, not brakes.

1. because I have to get to work and there is no other route, and I don't have or want a car.
2. because I'm late for school and I have a midterm worth 33% of my grade
3. because he only has a fixed gear, and has freak bikes to build

no one crashed in any of these situations, because we used our brakes.

now answer my question

Pirate, he is just being an ass! take it easy!!!!
http://www.friarjp.com/image002.jpg_1.jpg