General Cycling Discussion - Made some adjustments...

Ok, I got a brand new 7.2FX, and after reading threads on the forum, I realized that the guy at the shop did not set me up correctly. So I decided to do it myself. I adjusted my brakes, seat, handlebars(lowered them by 3 washers), etc. When I am riding, the steering much more sensitive almost feels like I can tip over if I lean/turn a little to hard. Also, my foot hits the tire when I am turning sometimes (did not notice this before adjustments but only rode it a few times). Are these normal things to experience? Or did I not adjust my bike correctly? Thanks.

You should have made one small adjustment at a time unless something was completely out of wack.
Then ride for a bit and repeat.
Toe overlap is common.

Toe overlap is common if you're pedaling with the arches of your feet -- at least, that's how it is with me, which usually only happens when I unclip and rest the middle of the shoe on the pedal to avoid accidentally clipping back in.

I'd wager that the steering feels more sensitive because you're putting more weight on the bars, which is also making you slide a bit forward, including putting your feet farther forward on the pedals.

I should ask -- why did you make each change?

Toe overlap is common if you're pedaling with the arches of your feet -- at least, that's how it is with me, which usually only happens when I unclip and rest the middle of the shoe on the pedal to avoid accidentally clipping back in.

I'd wager that the steering feels more sensitive because you're putting more weight on the bars, which is also making you slide a bit forward, including putting your feet farther forward on the pedals.

I should ask -- why did you make each change?

Because my handle bars were wayyy higher than my seat, and I read and watched many tutorials showing how to calibrate a bike. I just rode 3 miles and so far so good...I'm content except my arms are still locked out..maybe I need to bring the handlebars closer to the seat?

Hmm...

With those FX's and how they come from the factory, the bars shouldn't be higher than the seat, at least not by very much.

Are you sure that the saddle is high enough for a good pedal stroke?

See if you can post a pic of how you have it set up now.

What do you mean lowered the handle bars by 3 washers? Is it a threadless setup? If so, don't you need to cut the forktube since the topcap needs the 1/8" gap from the top of the tube.. (just askin' since I'm not familiar with FX stuff).

What do you mean lowered the handle bars by 3 washers? Is it a threadless setup? If so, don't you need to cut the forktube since the topcap needs the 1/8" gap from the top of the tube.. (just askin' since I'm not familiar with FX stuff).

He'd be fine as long as he moves the spacers above the stem. But I wouldn't cut anything yet, because it sounds like something's not right at all.

He'd be fine as long as he moves the spacers above the stem. But I wouldn't cut anything yet, because it sounds like something's not right at all.

Ahhh, ok! I didn't realize that could be done or would work! :D...Learn sumthin' new everyday!:p

Ahhh, ok! I didn't realize that could be done or would work! :D...Learn sumthin' new everyday!:p

Yeah. You'll see bikes with spacers above the stem more often in the Road forum, where the rider is working on fine-tuning the fit of the bike and looking for the best saddle-to-bar drop (too high and it's not aero enough; too low and it hurts too much ;)).

His FX should look roughly like this picture (http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/fx/72fx/), with a bunch of seatpost visible and the seat at about the same height as the bars. He shouldn't be experiencing toe overlap, either, as long as he's pedaling with the balls of his feet (or do as I often do and not pedal much through really tight turns).

Yeah. You'll see bikes with spacers above the stem more often in the Road forum, where the rider is working on fine-tuning the fit of the bike and looking for the best saddle-to-bar drop (too high and it's not aero enough; too low and it hurts too much ;)).

His FX should look roughly like this picture (http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/fx/72fx/), with a bunch of seatpost visible and the seat at about the same height as the bars. He shouldn't be experiencing toe overlap, either, as long as he's pedaling with the balls of his feet (or do as I often do and not pedal much through really tight turns).

Here is a pic...not the greatest but I'm in a rush to get out of my house...

Here is a pic...not the greatest but I'm in a rush to get out of my house...


Going by the pic, are you sure you got a properly sized bike frame for you? When you are in the downstroke with your leg, do you have only a slight amount of flex in your knee?

Without seeing you on the bike, it almost looks like you have the seat too low and IF that is the case, you may have gotten too large a frame. Again, nearly impossible to diagnose via the internet and one pic but I've ridden two different FX's and for the fit to feel right (for me), the seat was as high if not slightly higher than the bars.

Your current set up looks all wrong in my opinion given the seat height. IF the bars are high enough and you need to take the seat higher (if you have proper leg extension), then it appears the frame MIGHT be too big.

More details?

The seat height is correct IMO. I adjusted it based on bicycletutor.com tutorial. I could have went with the 20 or the 17.5 frame according to the shop. I chose the 17.5 because it gives me the option of handing it down to my GF if I want to upgrade......

Actually, if the seat is lower than it should be, the frame would be too big. A bike that's too small would end up with the saddle sky-high, much higher than the bars. Of course, that's also assuming that its height is set for ideal pedal stroke, and not to be able to reach the ground with both feet while seated (which I can't do on any of my bikes).

That seat angle is pretty wild, too.

I mentioned it elsewhere -- the problem with compact geometry frames is that the sloping top tube leaves a lot of room for misadjustment. If this bike had a traditionally horizontal top tube, he would not be able to put the seat as low as it is now.

What you say about feeling like your arms are still locked out also tells me that either the frame is too big or you're not actually rotating forward at the hips -- and that would be difficult to do with your seat tilted so far back. IF the frame is too big, simply dropping the handlebars won't help at all with reach, either -- as the stem slides down the steerer tube, it slides away from you, too.

The FIRST thing I would do is revisit the seat height. A quick way to get in the ballpark would be to pedal with your heels on the pedals -- if your knees are completely straight at the bottom of the stroke, and your hips aren't rocking in an effort to reach the pedals, then your knees will have the proper slight bend when you pedal with the balls of your feet like you're supposed to do.

IF that's how you have your seat now, then I'll say that the bike is much too big. Other bikes are designed to have the bars higher than the seat (you'll see them marketed as "comfort" bikes like Trek's Pure and Navigator series), but not the FX.

Actually, if the seat is lower than it should be, the frame would be too big. A bike that's too small would end up with the saddle sky-high, much higher than the bars. Of course, that's also assuming that its height is set for ideal pedal stroke, and not to be able to reach the ground with both feet while seated (which I can't do on any of my bikes).

That seat angle is pretty wild, too.

I mentioned it elsewhere -- the problem with compact geometry frames is that the sloping top tube leaves a lot of room for misadjustment. If this bike had a traditionally horizontal top tube, he would not be able to put the seat as low as it is now.

What you say about feeling like your arms are still locked out also tells me that either the frame is too big or you're not actually rotating forward at the hips -- and that would be difficult to do with your seat tilted so far back. IF the frame is too big, simply dropping the handlebars won't help at all with reach, either -- as the stem slides down the steerer tube, it slides away from you, too.

The FIRST thing I would do is revisit the seat height. A quick way to get in the ballpark would be to pedal with your heels on the pedals -- if your knees are completely straight at the bottom of the stroke, and your hips aren't rocking in an effort to reach the pedals, then your knees will have the proper slight bend when you pedal with the balls of your feet like you're supposed to do.

IF that's how you have your seat now, then I'll say that the bike is much too big. Other bikes are designed to have the bars higher than the seat (you'll see them marketed as "comfort" bikes like Trek's Pure and Navigator series), but not the FX.

+1

What I meant to say was that he was too small for the bike frame, not that the frame was too small for him. I think you are dead on. (I have edited my post)

And, that seat angle is weird in my view too.

The seat height is correct IMO. I adjusted it based on bicycletutor.com tutorial. I could have went with the 20 or the 17.5 frame according to the shop. I chose the 17.5 because it gives me the option of handing it down to my GF if I want to upgrade......

Hmmm... strange.

How tall are you? I'm 6'1 and the 20" was too much for me on the FX series and found the 17.5 much more comfortable and better fitting. My inseam is 32" and while I could stand over a 20" FX, it was right 'up there' if you get my drift.

Do you just not have the seat high enough for proper leg extension?

Ok everyone, I am 5'9" ish with my sneakers on. I just made some adjustments as per BarracksSi suggestions. Here's an updated pic. I haven't gotten a chance to ride just yet....but it looks better. I'm wondering If I should just flip the handlebar mounting bracket over so it is angled downward if I need them lower....

Ok everyone, I am 5'9" ish with my sneakers on. I just made some adjustments as per BarracksSi suggestions. Here's an updated pic. I haven't gotten a chance to ride just yet....but it looks better. I'm wondering If I should just flip the handlebar mounting bracket over so it is angled downward if I need them lower....


Well, it does look better. But - looks do not matter; your comfort and fit do.

I would just about wager that a 17.5 is too big a frame. However, if the bike fits you and you are happy, that is all that counts.

I'm not sure about flipping the bracket but that may be an option.

IMO (and it is ONLY an opinion) I think you might want to consider going back to your shop and seeing if they would let you try the next size down (15?). It's certainly your call but unless you have long legs, you may have an issue with the seat that high on a 17.5.

Good luck.

Well, it does look better. But - looks do not matter; your comfort and fit do.

+1

When I was talking about how it "should look", I meant that if it's set up wildly different than the typical setup shown in Treks own pictures, it's probably either simply set up incorrectly (again, easy to do with a sloping top tube) or it's the wrong size.

In other words, with the bars back at the top of the steerer and the saddle about the same height as the bars, the bike will ride fine -- IF it's the right size for you.


IMO (and it is ONLY an opinion) I think you might want to consider going back to your shop and seeing if they would let you try the next size down (15?). It's certainly your call but unless you have long legs, you may have an issue with the seat that high on a 17.5.

Good luck.

Yup, definitely try another size if you can. It wasn't until about ten years ago that I first tried various sizes of one bike model, and I was surprised that they felt as different as they did, even with just a ride around the block. I tried three sizes, riding the smallest first. It seemed fine, honestly. Then I tried the middle size -- wow, everything was in the perfect spot. The bigger size just felt too big, so I went with the middle of the three. I still can put a lot of hours on that bike.

To further illustrate what I'm saying about seatpost and how much is visible in different frames, here are two of my bikes. They both have the same saddle-to-pedal distance, but due to the shape of the Bad Boy's frame, you can see a lot more seatpost, making it appear to be higher.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/BarracksSi/Bike/BBWashingtonMonument1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/BarracksSi/Bike/CAAD860Roof2.jpg

+1


In other words, with the bars back at the top of the steerer and the saddle about the same height as the bars, the bike will ride fine -- IF it's the right size for you.





Are you saying to move the 3 spacers from the top of the steering bracket to the bottom? And then flip it over, so it slopes downward instead of upwards?

Are you saying to move the 3 spacers from the top of the steering bracket to the bottom? And then flip it over, so it slopes downward instead of upwards?

So far, it seems like you're trying to push everything on the bike lower.

This will work if your inseam is really short for your height; have people commented that your legs are shorter than normal? The reason why I say this is, with a really low seat, it's like you're riding on an extra-long frame -- which would be fine if you have short legs and a looong torso. However, you're not bringing the bars any closer to you by dropping them -- the steerer tube is angled so that, as you lower the stem, the bars actually get farther away.

But anyway --

Forget the handlebars for now, and -- again -- set the saddle according to your pedal stroke. If you've already done it exactly as described at bicycletutor.com (and his video is spot-on, IMO), and it still has to be as low as shown in your pics, you can either keep the bars low on the steerer (which will result in a long reach) or get a smaller bike (which will result in an average reach).

Looking at your pics again -- is it just me, or is the whole bike angled way back in the first pic?

So far, it seems like you're trying to push everything on the bike lower.

This will work if your inseam is really short for your height; have people commented that your legs are shorter than normal? The reason why I say this is, with a really low seat, it's like you're riding on an extra-long frame -- which would be fine if you have short legs and a looong torso. However, you're not bringing the bars any closer to you by dropping them -- the steerer tube is angled so that, as you lower the stem, the bars actually get farther away.

But anyway --

Forget the handlebars for now, and -- again -- set the saddle according to your pedal stroke. If you've already done it exactly as described at bicycletutor.com (and his video is spot-on, IMO), and it still has to be as low as shown in your pics, you can either keep the bars low on the steerer (which will result in a long reach) or get a smaller bike (which will result in an average reach).

Looking at your pics again -- is it just me, or is the whole bike angled way back in the first pic?

+1

Although, if you look closely at the parts of the tires/wheels that are visible, it almost looks like the nose of the bike is sitting higher than the rear and I think this may be what creates the illusion that the seat is tipped upward at the front.

In his second picture, things look more normal level-wise relating to the seat.

It would be nice if he could post a pic of his leg as he sits on the seat in the riding position. Your advice to adjust the seat height correctly is vital to getting everything else in line. Given the geometry of the bike and his height, I would wager a hot fudge sunday that he needs the next size down.

By the way, your two Cannondales are gorgeous. How do you like the Bad Boy?

The Bad Boy rocks -- it's a fun bike. It's basically a mountain bike with narrow 700c tires. I've put many more miles on the CAAD8, though.

Ok, here it is...just keep one thing in mind...I had to keep my left toes on the ground for balance, so my right leg will probably lock out in full extension when I'm seated more properly. I am going to ride in a little while, but I think my elbows were slightly flexed when I took this picture, so maybe I'll be more comfortable.

Ok, here it is...just keep one thing in mind...I had to keep my left toes on the ground for balance, so my right leg will probably lock out in full extension when I'm seated more properly. I am going to ride in a little while, but I think my elbows were slightly flexed when I took this picture, so maybe I'll be more comfortable.


Well, without standing behind you and for not having both feet on the pedals it LOOKS like a decent extension. If you pedal using the balls of your feet, you should have the right amount of flex but again, that is really difficult to tell without you having both feet off the ground.

From here, it looks to be a decent fit given I'm looking at a pic. Not sure why you would want the bars any lower and it does not look like you should take the seat any higher.

Ride it for a while and see how it feels. Then, post your findings when you can.

Good luck - that IS a nice bike!

EDIT: Just wondering - is it hard to get your leg over the seat with it that high and that is why you had it lower to begin with?

Not too difficult to get my leg over the seat. I had the seat down because I was ignorant and did not know how it should be. I also haven't ridden a bike since I was a kid, so I guess I subconsciously wanted the "safe" feeling of being able to put my feet down "just in case."

From the picture of the seat/handlebar - it looks like your house is jacked-up! LOL. Is that an FX WDS frame? I don't get it..

Anywho - one thing that hasn't been brought up: Have you had/ridden an aluminum-framed bike before this? If not, that could explain your control-issues. Aluminum frames act differently than the old-style steel framed bikes we all (most of us) grew up with. They turn sharper and are less forgiving by nature. Aluminum is like a rigid panel. Very little give - spring - to them. And it seems bike-shops never point this out to their customers. So I often have to explain to people, lying in the road sometimes, that this is the case. I recommend that the new owner of the aluminum-framed bike, like the FX 7.2, take it out to a vacant parking-lot and learn to ride it. Start slow. Once you get the hang of how these bikes behave, you can turn the scary quickness of it into an asset. But you need to practice.

- new owner of an FX 7.5

From the picture of the seat/handlebar - it looks like your house is jacked-up! LOL. Is that an FX WDS frame? I don't get it..



Lol, that is my basement/workshop. Not a WDS frame... http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/fx/72fx/ That is how the frame is...For what it's worth, this bike is advertised for its upright riding position.....

Not too difficult to get my leg over the seat. I had the seat down because I was ignorant and did not know how it should be. I also haven't ridden a bike since I was a kid, so I guess I subconsciously wanted the "safe" feeling of being able to put my feet down "just in case."

Ok, I get it now, about why you had the seat so low --

While seated, I can hardly reach the ground with either foot on any of my bikes. What matters is how it fits while pedaling, not while standing still (never mind that I can't do a trackstand yet..). To get on, I still tip the bike towards me, put a pedal forward, then stand up, just like in the vid on this page by the late Sheldon Brown:

http://sheldonbrown.com/starting.html

If the bike really tips over far enough for falling to be a concern, I can still reach the ground with my foot before I fall over myself. ;)

Lol, that is my basement/workshop. Not a WDS frame... http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/road/fx/72fx/ That is how the frame is...For what it's worth, this bike is advertised for its upright riding position.....

Okay - I get it now! LOL. I have the Trek FX 7.5, so our bikes are more similar than not. As another note for you to consider with your bike, you likely have Avid Single Digit 3 brakes. You may well want to get rid of them soon. They don't stay adjusted. They are weak and wriggle around. And the adjusting screws are about worthless. On a positive note, the Avid Single Digit 7's draw rave reviews - literally, look 'em up on Google - and they aren't that expensive. Easy to mount as well. A bike is only as good as it's brakes - is one of my mottos.

<edit> Oops! You have Tektro brakes. They probably suck as well - so my suggestion stands. Oops - here come the Forum-Trolls. Gotta run!

Actually, if the seat is lower than it should be, the frame would be too big. A bike that's too small would end up with the saddle sky-high, much higher than the bars. Of course, that's also assuming that its height is set for ideal pedal stroke, and not to be able to reach the ground with both feet while seated (which I can't do on any of my bikes).

That seat angle is pretty wild, too.

I mentioned it elsewhere -- the problem with compact geometry frames is that the sloping top tube leaves a lot of room for misadjustment. If this bike had a traditionally horizontal top tube, he would not be able to put the seat as low as it is now.

What you say about feeling like your arms are still locked out also tells me that either the frame is too big or you're not actually rotating forward at the hips -- and that would be difficult to do with your seat tilted so far back. IF the frame is too big, simply dropping the handlebars won't help at all with reach, either -- as the stem slides down the steerer tube, it slides away from you, too.

The FIRST thing I would do is revisit the seat height. A quick way to get in the ballpark would be to pedal with your heels on the pedals -- if your knees are completely straight at the bottom of the stroke, and your hips aren't rocking in an effort to reach the pedals, then your knees will have the proper slight bend when you pedal with the balls of your feet like you're supposed to do.

IF that's how you have your seat now, then I'll say that the bike is much too big. Other bikes are designed to have the bars higher than the seat (you'll see them marketed as "comfort" bikes like Trek's Pure and Navigator series), but not the FX.

Plus if too big a frame is his problem, the cockpit is probably way too long.

Also, my foot hits the tire when I am turning sometimes (did not notice this before adjustments but only rode it a few times).

It's more of a problem with short people on bikes with 700c wheels (like me). Having short stumpy legs means I tend to go for quite a small frame and my cross bike has quite a short wheelbase as it is, coupled with my giant feet I have plenty of opportunities for overlap.

However, due to the way you actually ride a bike and go around corners this is rarely a problem as you very rarely turn your wheel sharply unless at low speeds and after a while you just learn how to do it without hitting the wheel at low speeds.

Plus if too big a frame is his problem, the cockpit is probably way too long.

Yup, exactly. That's part of why shifting the bars down the steerer won't help. Shortening the cockpit can only really be done by using either a shorter stem or handlebars with more sweep back -- although lots of sweep are usually only seen on old European-style city bikes.


It's more of a problem with short people on bikes with 700c wheels (like me). Having short stumpy legs means I tend to go for quite a small frame and my cross bike has quite a short wheelbase as it is, coupled with my giant feet I have plenty of opportunities for overlap.

However, due to the way you actually ride a bike and go around corners this is rarely a problem as you very rarely turn your wheel sharply unless at low speeds and after a while you just learn how to do it without hitting the wheel at low speeds.

The only times I hit the front wheel with my toes is when I'm pedaling with the middle or heel of my foot... which isn't the best way to pedal.

Okay - I get it now! LOL. I have the Trek FX 7.5, so our bikes are more similar than not. As another note for you to consider with your bike, you likely have Avid Single Digit 3 brakes. You may well want to get rid of them soon. They don't stay adjusted. They are weak and wriggle around. And the adjusting screws are about worthless. On a positive note, the Avid Single Digit 7's draw rave reviews - literally, look 'em up on Google - and they aren't that expensive. Easy to mount as well. A bike is only as good as it's brakes - is one of my mottos.

<edit> Oops! You have Tektro brakes. They probably suck as well - so my suggestion stands. Oops - here come the Forum-Trolls. Gotta run!
Yea, thanks for the tip....I keep adjusting the brakes and cannot get them to where I want them to be...meaning that I adjust them, everything seems fine, then after riding they seem to be a little out of whack again.

Don't be so sure about the brakes being bad. Adjusting v-brakes requires a bit of experience and you probably don't have much of it yet so you assume they are bad. I have the 7.2fx and the brakes are good. I work at a volunteer bike shop and have dealt with a lot of v-brake adjustments. The 7.2fx brakes are solid.

For example did you know that you can adjust the spring tension of each arm individually so as to centre the brakes. Did you know that if your wheel is not centred in the middle of the frame, you are gonna have issues with v-brakes because the arms will need different spring tensions to stay in place.

The interesting thing with my 7.2 which is a 25" size, the geometry is almost traditional. It seems that as the sizes get higher, Trek changes the geometry. I don't know why they do this.

Yea, thanks for the tip....I keep adjusting the brakes and cannot get them to where I want them to be...meaning that I adjust them, everything seems fine, then after riding they seem to be a little out of whack again.

Check here:
http://bicycletutor.com/adjust-v-brakes/

and here:
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=21

Specifically where they talk about "Brake Arm Centering" (on the Park Tool site, it's the pic that says, "Tighten screw to pull arm away"). You can also go straight to Step 12 Centering on the bicycle tutor video.

On the picture of your bike at Trek's site, this screw is a tiny black one on the outside of the brake pivot. It adjusts the tension of the long wire that pokes upward along the lever; it's actually a spring, just not a coil-shaped spring.

Don't be so sure about the brakes being bad. Adjusting v-brakes requires a bit of experience and you probably don't have much of it yet so you assume they are bad. I have the 7.2fx and the brakes are good. I work at a volunteer bike shop and have dealt with a lot of v-brake adjustments. The 7.2fx brakes are solid.

For example did you know that you can adjust the spring tension of each arm individually so as to centre the brakes. Did you know that if your wheel is not centred in the middle of the frame, you are gonna have issues with v-brakes because the arms will need different spring tensions to stay in place.

The interesting thing with my 7.2 which is a 25" size, the geometry is almost traditional. It seems that as the sizes get higher, Trek changes the geometry. I don't know why they do this.
Yea, I guess I shouldn't have said that. I am just learning.

The interesting thing with my 7.2 which is a 25" size, the geometry is almost traditional. It seems that as the sizes get higher, Trek changes the geometry. I don't know why they do this.

Small frames usually have a slacker head angle to reduce toe-overlap, the larger frames steepen the head angle to stop the wheelbase becoming too long. There is more to it than this, but it's the main difference.

Ok, everyone I rode 5miles today. The seat height seems great. I was able to get a nice range of motion with each pedal. I am not so sure the handlebars are correct...My hands started hurting in the beginning but then they felt better later on. I am able to flex my elbows a little bit which is a good feeling. I hit 21.5MPH for a short stretch.

Ok, everyone I rode 5miles today. The seat height seems great. I was able to get a nice range of motion with each pedal. I am not so sure the handlebars are correct...My hands started hurting in the beginning but then they felt better later on. I am able to flex my elbows a little bit which is a good feeling. I hit 21.5MPH for a short stretch.

As long as you're not completely straightening your knees, and you don't have to rock your hips, the seat height is good.

Your bars may be too low (sorry.. ;):lol:), or they may be too far away. You can try a different size of frame, or a shorter stem -- which I've actually done with some of my bikes.

I raised the bars by 1 washer and moved the seat forward by about 1 inch. It feels pretty good and I can flex my elbows very easily. I also hit 22.8 mph with this setup, so I must be doing something right. I guess it is a trial and error kind of thing. Thank you everyone for helping me get this right.

I never said anything about moving the seat to get closer to the bars (but that brings me to my next point anyway) --

You should adjust the seat only for best pedal stroke, not to change reach. A rule of thumb commonly used on most bikes (excluding time trial bikes with their more-vertical seat tubes, and "pedal-forward" bikes with laid-back seat tubes) is KOPS, or Knee Over Pedal Spindle. The idea is to have your kneecap directly over your forward pedal when both pedals are level at 3 and 9 o'clock when viewed from the side.

However, you might have actually improved your fore-aft saddle position by scooting it forward just a bit. And, KOPS is merely a starting point, and although it'll get a rider close, it isn't always regarded as the end-all fit method:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html
http://www.serotta.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-2529.html

At the very least, I'm glad that you raised your seat -- that's the first step. :thumb:

Rode 9 miles today. What have I learned? The seat needs to come up another 1/2-1 inch and I also raised the handlebars back to their "stock" height. Feels good now, but my hands still hurt after a while....maybe its the Bontrager ergonomic grips and not my positioning?

Rode 9 miles today. What have I learned? The seat needs to come up another 1/2-1 inch and I also raised the handlebars back to their "stock" height. Feels good now, but my hands still hurt after a while....maybe its the Bontrager ergonomic grips and not my positioning?

Once you have the seat set at the proper height for proper leg extension, you can fine tune the fore-aft position to increase or decrease the amount of weight you place on your hands. This will have some effect but not nearly as much as the height of the handle bars.

I was not surprised to find that you ended up with the handle bars back at their 'stock' position. That is not to say that this is the optimum place for you but with you adjusting so many different things at one time, it's hard to say what worked the best or what is yet needed.

Sort out the seat height/leg extension first. And it's a good idea regarding the fore/aft position to note where your knee is in relationship to the crank (in front/even/or behind).

Most likely, it's going to take some time to find what is most comfortable but remember that the posture you are in on a 'fitness hybrid' is NOT nearly as comfortable as on a true comfort bike.

There is ALWAYS a trade off - more comfort vs more efficiency, etc.... That is why you do not see Lance Armstrong riding a Townie 21 in the TDF.

And, as you start getting closer to your ideal saddle height, make smaller adjustments. Only move it that half inch, not a full inch, at least not yet. I can really feel the difference when I move mine just a centimeter too high.

Your hands may be hurting because of positioning, or it may be your gloves (if you have some; even then, it's personal preference), or it may be the grips.

I'm trying to get a good look at your grips (I think I see reflective end caps, too; that's kinda cool)... do they flare back with a sort of oblong shape? Try twisting them forward, bringing the flared part a bit upwards as shown in the diagrams here:
http://www.ergon-bike.com/en/grips/grip_ergonomics.html?WYSESSID=c9du8o4ba4c8i8lmk6f63d8is0

I have a pair of those Ergon grips and really like them, but you can probably still get yours to work well with some tweaking.

Ok, I need help again. My seat feels right, and I spun the handle bars around so that the "bowed-in" part faces me, which brought the handles closer to me. Is this not advisable, will it result in decreased handling?

Pic of the bars?

Pic of the bars?

Hope these pics demonstrate what I am talking about.

Hmm, ok...

There are handlebars that sweep back even more than that, so as far as the sweep goes, you probably won't have any problems at all.

What I might get concerned about is whether you've introduced some droop to the ends. That can put your wrists at an uncomfortable angle. I wouldn't ride like that for very long, if at all.

Right now, I think you have two options: get a shorter stem, or get a smaller bike.

Hmm, ok...

There are handlebars that sweep back even more than that, so as far as the sweep goes, you probably won't have any problems at all.

What I might get concerned about is whether you've introduced some droop to the ends. That can put your wrists at an uncomfortable angle. I wouldn't ride like that for very long, if at all.

Right now, I think you have two options: get a shorter stem, or get a smaller bike.

Absolutely dead on. I had written a post just before yours but somehow it got wiped out but I was saying the same thing.

I do think this all goes back to the fact that the bike is too big. Parts can be bought or interchanged but still, it does not seem like this is a good, comfortable fit for the rider.

If trading it in for the next smaller size is an option, I would rip off the dealer's arm to get the better sized bike.

Just my opinion mind you but I do not think you could put a price on years of discomfort or dissatisfaction, especially when it can easily be avoided.

Frustration will always sour a 'great deal'...