General Cycling Discussion - wax-cotton jacket for cycling?

I was just wondering. I'm sure I read somewhere that it was waterproof, and yet breathable. I know it's a mite heavier than your usual jacket, and not so foldawayable, but anyone ridden in a wax jacket with? Anyone know how breathable they'd be (esp for winter)?

Have you ever touched one? I don't think you can cycle with one.

I was a fan of waxed cotton or japara when I owned several jackets for general, non-cycling use in the 1970s and 1980s. I have renewed my acquaintance with japara in the form of waterproof pants that I use to cycle-commute to and from, and to work in.

I had forgotten how good this fabric really is, even though the clothing is = bit heavyweight compared with the technical plastic fabrics. It seems to breath sufficiently to avoid excessive sweat build-up inside, yet keeps quite heavy deluges outside.

We are just coming into summer here in Australia, so I haven't bothered to acquire a jacket in the same material, but will definitely do so for next winter. And I will be cycle-commuting in it. I will be seeking a version of the jacket that either has a removable inner or one that doesn't have a lining at all. I'd also prefer the design that has a shoulder vent, for obvious reasons.

I don't know what is available in more "chic" styles in the fabric... here we tend to go for the traditional stockman's style in half and thre-quarter length jackets.

One of the other attractions is that I can purchase a re-oiling kit that rejuvenates the clothing. In between rejuvenations, whenever they are, I only need to put the clothing in the sun or in front of a heater to redistribute the oil in the fabric.

The instructions for my old jackets 20 or so years ago said I had to return them to the maker in New Zealand for re-oiling. I usually wore them out (as in torn, worn through the elbows, etc) before getting to that point.

I had not thought about waxed or oiled canvas clothing in years. I had an old field coat that I wore almost continuously back in the 70's that was oiled canvas. It was of the upland bird hunting style with the drop flap in the back (great for carrying birds or laying out to sit on a wet or dirty surface) It was heavy but much more effective than the goretex parka that eventually replaced it.

I have always much prefered the natural fibers for clothing over the technical stuff. Just funny that way I guess. I have yet to find a "wicking tee" that is comfortable to me.

I do have a couple of the Carradice bags that are waxed canvas and have been pleased with them over the years.

Aaron:)

Thinking about it, I'm sure my father used to have one - and a short one, at that. I'll have to see if my mother kept it. How cool would that be?

if you want the performance of waxed cotton, try Epic encapsulated windbreaker from Wild Things. About the same fabric performance as waxed cotton and very packable and compressible.

I've commuted in a Filson waxed cotton jacket but the waxed cotton definetly doesn't drape well - like a ninja turtle suit!

I have cycled in a Barbour waxed cotton jacket (one of their lighter weight hunting/field jackets).
I wouldnt advise getting waxed cotton for cycling, it is heavy and not as breathable as alternatives.
The main advantage is that it is very tough so can resist scratching from thorn bushes and is repairable and maintainable. It is also acceptable dress in every circumstance from a farmyard to a 5 star hotel.
I much prefer my Paramo (http://www.paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETVASCOUNISEX)jacket. It is equally repairable, easier to rewax using Nikwax, much lighter and easier to move in and far more breathable. It comes in a pullover (http://www.paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYSMOCKVELEZUNISEX)style as well as zipup.

The "Barbour suit" was always the standard item for Euro "trials" motorcycle riding. (more similar to the US "enduro") but I would imagine that they would not be quite breathable enough for tough mountain biking.

I have cycled in a Barbour waxed cotton jacket (one of their lighter weight hunting/field jackets).
I wouldnt advise getting waxed cotton for cycling, it is heavy and not as breathable as alternatives.
The main advantage is that it is very tough so can resist scratching from thorn bushes and is repairable and maintainable. It is also acceptable dress in every circumstance from a farmyard to a 5 star hotel.
I much prefer my Paramo (http://www.paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYJACKETVASCOUNISEX)jacket. It is equally repairable, easier to rewax using Nikwax, much lighter and easier to move in and far more breathable. It comes in a pullover (http://www.paramo.co.uk/en-gb/garments/detail/index.php?pgc=NIKWAXANALOGYSMOCKVELEZUNISEX)style as well as zipup.


That Paramo looks great. I had a look on their website and was a little confused though. Is it a waterproof in the modern term, or is it waxed fabric, like a barbour, just thinner?

I often raced off road motorcycles in one quite a few years ago. I found it to breathe better than any of the high tech breathable fabrics that I have tried, but it was heavy, kind of stiff, and not all that suited to bicycling.

Makes me think of Fjellreven chlotes from Sweden. To be waxed with beeswax using an iron to melt it into the fabrik. Had a jacket like that bur was too lazy to wax it. I guess it depends how much wax you put, or how long ago you put wax?

I guess this is a better way than syntetics and chemicals, but remember they say that the way cotton is produced today (using chemicals) and using soil and water that should have been used for growing food is not so good. Also today we buy a lot of chlotes that we do not use or use only for a short time. If those are cotton it is not good

Makes me think of Fjellreven chlotes from Sweden. To be waxed with beeswax using an iron to melt it into the fabrik. Had a jacket like that bur was too lazy to wax it. I guess it depends how much wax you put, or how long ago you put wax?

I guess this is a better way than syntetics and chemicals, but remember they say that the way cotton is produced today (using chemicals) and using soil and water that should have been used for growing food is not so good. Also today we buy a lot of chlotes that we do not use or use only for a short time. If those are cotton it is not good

Cotton is a sustainable crop...clothes produced from oil are not (a lot of synthetics)

No cotton is not always grown properly, but neither is most of our current food supply.

Aaron:)

So could you take a lightweight cotton jacket, wax it and have, voila, a breathable jacket for cycling?

....And ventile cotton doesn't even need the wax!

Curiously enough, the norwegian military uses a high tech cotton blend in their arctic weather gear.

Finding the right breathable shell for cycling is difficult. I will STRONGLY recommend the OP try a modern counterpart to waxed cotton and try an EPIC- encapsulated fabric jacket like an Epic shell from Wild Things or windshirt from ORC industries.

Epic encapsulated fabric is very similar to waxed cotton in performance and much more packable. and they even encapsulate cotton for golf jackets, etc.

Epic encapsulated fabric technology. The Wild Things Epic jackets are the shizzle.

Don't do it mon.

Cotton is a sustainable crop...clothes produced from oil are not (a lot of synthetics)

No cotton is not always grown properly, but neither is most of our current food supply.

Aaron:)


cotton is just as evil as any synthetic fabric.

more than 1/4th the world usage of pesticides and fertilizers is used for cotton production.
guess where fertilizers and pesticides are made, and what they are made from ? it isn't the hostess bakery....

(and guess where all this drains ? the ocean ? good. algae blooms, transmutation....)


synthetics are no worse, and in some regards better for the environment...the more you know

wool is probably best cuz sheep eat grasses that grow with little or no pesticide and fertilizers

Cotton is a sustainable crop...clothes produced from oil are not (a lot of synthetics)

No cotton is not always grown properly, but neither is most of our current food supply.

Aaron:)


cotton is just as evil as any synthetic fabric.

more than 1/4th the world usage of pesticides and fertilizers is used for cotton production.
guess where fertilizers and pesticides are made, and what they are made from ? it isn't the hostess bakery....

(and guess where all this drains ? the ocean ? good. algae blooms, transmutation....)


synthetics are no worse, and in some regards better for the environment...the more you know

wool is probably best cuz sheep eat grasses that grow with little or no pesticide and fertilizers

Did you READ my post? FWIW I have grown some small batches of organic cotton for personal consumption. Every seen a nylon or poly factory? Not exactly the Garden of Eden and full of nasty stuff if it every hits the atmosphere, one reason much of our synthetic products come from unregulated countries.

I prefer natural fibers because they are renewable, things like bamboo, cotton, wool and hemp are all natural based fibers that can be regrown if done responsibly. Once you use the oil to make nylon or polyester it is gone, never to be replaced. I have no clue why people need the massive amount of clothing that they purchase. Every thing I own clothing wise will fit in a large steamer trunk.

Aaron:)

Have you ever touched one? I don't think you can cycle with one.

Are you kidding? These things are more breathable than goretex (although less waterproof...). They can smell a bit though.

I'd prefer something more flexible and a brighter colour, and usually they're cut for bushwalking or horse riding; but I think if you already have one, or want to try cutting one down, they'd be quite good.

Rode home yesterday in a torrential downpour with oiled cotton trousers on. The clothing underneath was dry when I got home -- no sign of sweat build-up and no ingress of water. And this after a day working in the rain wearing the oilskin pants.

I've spent around half of this winter in Australia riding to and from work in the rain wearing three different styles of waterproof trousers. I maintain that oilskins are a great, cheap alternative to the expensive technical fabrics for this type of riding, where bulk and weight is less important than protection from rain, wind and cold.

The fabric also softens a lot when worn. I think the lining on many jackets probably adds to the perception of stiffness.

I will likely source a jacket on eBay for around $65 (which at current exchange rates equates to around $56 US). I am keen to test the hypothesis that the technical fabric jackets that I have (MEC) could not maintain the same waterproofing, breathable, cold protection qualities for the same price and for the same use.

rowan brings up a good point-

there is waxed cotton and there is cotton oilcloth.

Oilcloth is much more supple than waxed garments which were designed for brush rustling and other high abrasion pursuits.

there's good waxed AND oiled gear in the USA from Filson.

rowan brings up a good point-

there is waxed cotton and there is cotton oilcloth.

Oilcloth is much more supple than waxed garments which were designed for brush rustling and other high abrasion pursuits.

there's good waxed AND oiled gear in the USA from Filson.

+1 on Filson (http://www.filson.com/home/index.jsp):thumb: It is expensive, but will last a long time if taken care of.

Aaron:)

Once you use the oil to make nylon or polyester it is gone, never to be replaced.

Aaron:)

incorrect.

your sustainable crops can be turned into the same plastic bases the crude oil can make. it is all carbon and hydrogen. and it can be reduced to ....oil....then plastics..


also the jury is still out on whether or not new oil is produced deep in the crust. a lot of wells are
filling with new oil from unknown origins. and a lot of the biological matter detected in oil is bactaria that eat the stuff, not the source of the oil itself. there is a lot we do not understand about ground oil. all we really know is how to find a large deposit of it and tap it. the true source of each deposit is hard to pin down.

anyhow....take an acre of hemp and you can outfit a team with goretex kit you just have to process the hemp in a reactor vessel

get a soft shell jacket, they are warm and breathable.

i use those for biking under very cold conditions

otherwise, it'll just be my long sleeve Tshirt + my regular wind/water proof jacket

rowan brings up a good point-

there is waxed cotton and there is cotton oilcloth.

Oilcloth is much more supple than waxed garments which were designed for brush rustling and other high abrasion pursuits.

there's good waxed AND oiled gear in the USA from Filson.

What's the difference between waxed cotton and oilcloth? I had a quick look at a Filson oil skin, and it said it had a parafin oil wax finish. Is this the same kind of finish as a barbour, or is it a different process?

oilcloths are much more supple than waxed workwear canvas.

i love my barbour and filson waxed jackets. they'd be pretty difficult for a long ride i'm afraid, not too breathable and fairly heavy. but nothing beats cotton, wool and leather... i recently wore my barbour to an art opening... it hadn't been out of the closet all year and smelled like an old boy scout canvas tent of my youth. i loved that people were looking around wondering what that smell was...

oilcloths are much more supple than waxed workwear canvas.


Thanks for that. I've just been watching your Youtube videos, which are great. I've really enjoyed them. Where do you get your music from for them? I'm guessing it's royalty free. I've got some videos I want to put up, but they've got copyrighted music on them, and I was thinking of changing it for Youtube.

if you want the performance of waxed cotton, try Epic encapsulated windbreaker from Wild Things. About the same fabric performance as waxed cotton and very packable and compressible.

I've commuted in a Filson waxed cotton jacket but the waxed cotton definetly doesn't drape well - like a ninja turtle suit!

+1 and them some for EPIC

Several years ago I got a jogging jacket from Beans made from EPIC. It breathed well, waterproof, and survived two crashes into pavement. I replaced it
with a lined version I still have. And I have two winter jackets that have an EPIC shell.

Yeah, I like the stuff. A lot. You don't see it as much, and when you do see it, the company has usually given it a goofy name to make it sound proprietary.
It is a ripstop fabric, but the thread is so fine you have to look close to notice it.
Trust me, the stuff is tough enough.

For cycling, I think any of the waxed cotton/canvas items would be like wearing cardboard. Lots of abrasion at pinch points, too - back of neck, and elsewhere. It takes alot to wear them in just for everyday use, let alone for something as pressure sensitive as cycling.

Alas, the Quest for The Holy Grail to remain sweatless and comfy continues. This year, I'm going with wools - even though there might be some objections based upon the fact that sheep fart methane :rolleyes:

I have a Barbour waxed cotton jacket which I absolutely love. It just gets better as it gets older. But I wouldn't wear it for cycling (other than commuting). It just isn't that breathable.