Touring - Camping gear purchase. Local vs. online

I have my gear choices narrowed down pretty much now and I think I'll be purchasing my tent, sleeping bag, Therma-Rest, and a few other items within the next few days or so. I've gone into a few local sporting goods stores to look at the tents close up and crawl into them for size.

One sporting goods store is a national chain and even though the sales lady/manager spent a considerable amount of time with me acknowledged that I could buy some of the gear elsewhere for less and it wouldn't hurt her feelings because she was only an hourly employee. The other store I went to is also a chain but a much smaller one that only has a dozen stores in about 3 or 4 states. They were much more knowledgeable about the gear but the prices were also a little higher.

Since neither one of these is a locally owned business and the employees are not commissioned I don't really feel badly about visiting their store to check out the equipment and then ordering it online from REI or Campmor. If I order online I can save about $50.00. However, if I encounter any warranty issues do you think there will there be any advantage to dealing with the local stores? What have been your experiences with warranty issues when dealing with REI or Campmor?

Well the warranty will be with the mfg. not the retailer so your advantage there might be having a local retailer ship it back for warranty vs. you just shipping it yourself(you may even get the mfg to send you a free shipping sticker i know I have done this with household appliances).Many of the established gear companies I believe have favorable warrenty policies you hear of long distance hikers all the time returning gear and the mfg sending replacement gear further up the trail for them.The other issue would be the retailers return policy and I think the large online retailers have decent policies in this regard(but I haven't bought from the companies you mentioned)but again it would probably be an issue of paying for return shipping vs. just returning it to a local store (if they have a favorable return policy).
The only warranty issue I have had was with a TNF sleeping bag where the seam started unravelling after a few months.I bought it at an out of state outfitter so talking to the local outfitter they said TNF had a good warranty policy just ship it back to TNF clean(and after some talking they even offered to do it for me just bring it in).Actually I didn't want to lose the bag for a few weeks while it was shipped crosscountry so I just ducked taped it and kept on using it.

Krispy - how about splitting the difference by at least buying the tent locally? You probably benefitted most from their "tent city" display of models already set up (done at great expense of floor space.) Doing some business locally helps them keep those services going, and at least some of the $ does stay in your community. It should also zap any nagging twinge of guilt that might accompany a return visit.

Krispy - how about splitting the difference by at least buying the tent locally? You probably benefitted most from their "tent city" display of models already set up (done at great expense of floor space.) Doing some business locally helps them keep those services going, and at least some of the $ does stay in your community. It should also zap any nagging twinge of guilt that might accompany a return visit.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Thanks!

I bought my tent yesterday. I bought it locally. I spent all of Saturday afternoon in two different sports shops talking to them about tents, sleeping bags, Therma-Rests etc. I think the little bit of extra money I spent was worth it because of all the information they gave me about the various products. They were both experienced outdoorsmen and knew what they were talking about when they demonstrated the various products. So the little bit of extra money I paid was like investing in a crash course education in outdoor gear!

Curious? What did you end up getting? And what are you using it for?

Ray

Curious? What did you end up getting? And what are you using it for?

Ray

I bought the Sierra Designs Clip Flashlight CD. I'll be using it for touring, both loaded/self supported as well as fully supported tours.

It was a close call between this one and the The North Face Tadpole 23. At first glance they look very similar with the major difference being that the Tadpole 23 is freestanding while the Clip Flashlight is not. Between the two I really wanted a free standing tent but ultimatly decided on the Clip Flashlight because it has 7" more width and 11" more length, weighs a half pound less, but most importantly looks like a higher quality tent. When doing research I found nearly 80 mostly positive reviews on the Clip Flashlight but only found 6 total on the Tadpole 23.

The Tadpole 23 was quicker to setup than the Flashlight CD because it was free standing but in the end I chose the other for the above reasons. Just to make sure I will practice setting it up indoors to determine whether I can live without the free standing aspect. If I can't I can take it back within 45 days.

I have my sleeping bag narrowed down to a few choices. Once I have all my gear together I can determine what size panniers I will need. Then it will be decision time for buying panniers. I think it's down to either Arkle or Jandd.

sounds good, I had a friend on the AT that had that same tent. He used it for about 300 miles, but then swithced over to a hamok. He was much happier with the hamok, though no falut of the tents. I used a eureka backcountry 1. It was the lightest tent I found that was free standing. I had no complaints about it. Dosn't leave much room for gear, but I was ok with that.

Hope your happy with your purchase, let us know.

Ray.

Well you can't go wrong with that decision they are both good tents I chose between basically the same two tents a few years ago and chose the tadpole after setting up both and taking them back down all afternoon torn in indecision.TNF discontinued the tadpole for awhile so I am glad to see they have revived it.You gave a good summary of the difference except the tadpole is actually a little higher quality unless things have changed(both are quality tents though).It is designed to be high at one end for sitting up etc. and then sloping down at the other I have never had any problem with room,comfort etc. for solo use.Also keep in mind an advantage of freestanding for touring is not just ease of setting up but also allows a wider range of camping spots .An urban(ie all concrete)rv park,a covered pavillion(while raining)and an old bridge on the keys are all spots I set up not possible with a non freestanding.The freestanding will also be somewhat more secure in design due to the extra pole (which adds the extra weight)in most cases not a real concern but was nice to know when I got hit by a surprise waterspout with high winds on that bridge lol.So during your evaluation period you may want to take into account what type of camping you will be doing if mostly wooded parks and the like well planned ahead you may well be fine with your choice if more impromptu or some choices may not be on dirt you may have a wider range of choices with the freestanding but like I said both are great tents.

Also keep in mind an advantage of freestanding for touring is not just ease of setting up but also allows a wider range of camping spots .An urban(ie all concrete)rv park,a covered pavillion(while raining)and an old bridge on the keys are all spots I set up not possible with a non freestanding.

Yes that's exactly why I was origionally wanting a free standing and why I've been wondering if I made the right descision all day long. Pitching on concrete under pavillions is what I was not able to do on my tour last year. My riding buddies didnt' have that ability either so I didnt' think too much about it. However, it would be nice to have that option when I'm touring solo.

I wonder if the TNF has changed the layout of the Tadpole any? The new one is 51" x 78", while the Clip Flashlight CD is 58" x 89". Maybe it was just a visual thing but it seemed like I really noticed the additional room of the Clip Flashlight.

How quickly can you pitch your Tadpole including ground cover, tent, putting on the rain fly, staking it all out and guying it down? I was able to do all of the above in my garage today in about 6 minutes but I was substituting weights for stakes. It then took me 10 minutes to take it all down and get it all back into the stuff sacks. Although that was considerably faster than my previous tent it still seems like a free standing would pitch much faster. What has been your experience?

As far as the quality goes I don't know how to answer that one since I have not seen any of the older Tadpoles. It just seemed like the seams were more uniform on the Clip Flashlight and the fabric just felt like it was a little bit more durable. Keep in mind I am not a tent expert and I was going by my first impression.

One advantage that I thought the Clip Flashlight might have would be if I did any wild camping. The colors seem to be more natural and I would think they might less noticable in a grassy or wooded surroundings. While the Tadpole was actually a sharp looking tent it's blue colors were pretty eye catchie but there again I'm not a tent expert so I could be off on my thinking.

I'm also tempted to do what you did and go buy the Tadpole and pitch them side by side for comparison and then return the one I like the least.

I recommend you replace the tent stakes with a stronger set. I have found that the stakes supplied with most tents (even high end) are a bit soft and do not withstand much pounding. If you do much camping in state parks or other places where you are restricted to a 'tent pad', you will find yourself trying to drive the stakes through dirt packed harder than concrete. Outdoor stores usually have some replacement stakes that are a stiffer aluminum than the originals.

By the way, Sierra Designs does stand behind their products. The fly on my 15 year old Clip Flashlight deteriorated and a couple pole ends corroded. I called Sierra Designs and although not covered by warrantee, they did exchange my old tent for a new one for a significant discount over the going retail price.

Well the outfitter I bought from actually insisted I take both to a nearby park and set them both up before buying.I have never had the need to use guy lines and only stakes when backpacking and use the vestibule(ie I only staked the fly) that flexibility is one of the features I like.Mine has what is called a no hitch pitch feature the poles have an elastic line running through them and are able to be broken down into four sections and stored compactly while still connected through the eyelets to the tent.This makes setup and takedown extremely fast and easy.But over time the pole end that is suppose to stay attached became more difficult to keep attached so it increased the setup time to more like a regular tent .Because of this and due to the fact I hadn't set up the tent for awhile on a trip where I had trouble due to darkness and bugs Dwagenheim hasn't let me forget it lol.Anyway that is probably why they discontinued the tent but I still like the feature .I think in the mid 90's when I purchased the tent Sierra Designs products were a little cheaper in price and overall quality than TNF but not enough imo to really affect a decision (in fact the lower price was a positive for SD in my opinion)and that might have changed since then.It was probably the greater use of mesh that gave you the sense of less durable materials but after almost 10 years mine has held up and now that I live in Fl. this is even more of a real positive and without the fly you also have more of a sense of the outdoors inside the tent with all the mesh.The literature I still have doesn't mention dimensions but the layout of mine though it was overall more compact allows plenty of useable space(its particularly high and wide with not much slope on the head end sloping to low and narrower at the foot end) and one feature I liked was the much greater mesh ventilation for warm weather camping (though I hear SD may have to some extent addressed this issue)also a roomer tent will be harder to keep warm in cooler weather camping if that is an issue(though the mesh would be a liability).Also there is room under the fly in the "vestibule" for gear this is where I keep my pack backpacking and you can even cook there during bad weather.And now that I think about it the tent may have seemed a little small at first but you quickly adjust to it as it makes good use of the space width wise and heighth wise like I mentioned before. Mine does have the blue fly but remote camping setting up after dark I have not had a problem but the new colors of the SD would like you say have an advantage more significant if you arrive before dark or leave after dawn. My decision the greater mesh and freestanding capabilities won out over the lower price,less weight and more roominess but of course the SD tent has long been popular with long distance hikers so you can't go wrong there either.

I recommend you replace the tent stakes with a stronger set.

Are there any particular brands or styles that you would recommend?



By the way, Sierra Designs does stand behind their products.

That was another factor that I was taking into consideration. When I was at the store that sold me the SD they were praising SD customer service and although they also sold TNF products (they don't stock the Tadpole but can get it.) they insisted I'd have much better service from SD if it was ever needed. He also told me that as a SD dealer they would talk to them on my behalf if it fell into one of those gray areas.

When I went back to the store that sold the TNF I asked the guy about TNF customer service and warranty. He told me that if I brought the tent to them that they would charge me for shipping so I might as well deal directly with the manufacturer. He then told me that I would have better luck dealing with TNF directly than they would! (This was a locally owned sporting goods store). So percieved quality and concern about potential customer service issues played a part in my descison.

OTOH, if I do decide to take the SD back and get the TNF I think I will buy it from the large national sporting goods chain because the lady that helped me told me that as long as I kept my reciept they would take it back if it didn't function right. She said that she had seen them give full refunds for products returned years after the purchase and when it was apparant that the customer's dog had done the damage and not a manufacturers defect. Of course she didnt' have anything in writing though.

You mentioned you'd had your Clip Flashlight CD for 15 years. Do you mind sharing your experience with it? Has the fact that it isn't freestanding ever become an issue for you?

Well the outfitter I bought from actually insisted I take both to a nearby park and set them both up before buying.

Both local sporting goods stores told me that if I set it up outside I could not return it. However, the national chain store that sells the TNF told me I could return it even after using it in real conditions. They told me they had even taken back stuff caked in dried mud and gook. I'm still just a bit leary though because they don't have anything in writing that says "we will take it back caked in mud and gook years after the purchase."


It was probably the greater use of mesh that gave you the sense of less durable materials but after almost 10 years mine has held up and now that I live in Fl. this is even more of a real positive

Yes that was what gave me the initial impression that it might not hold up for very long. It helps knowing that you have had yours for 10 years though.




and without the fly you also have more of a sense of the outdoors inside the tent with all the mesh.

I had wonderd about that. That could be a favorable thing with me.

Since the mesh is on top have you ever had any issues with condensaton from the inside of the fly dripping through the mesh?

I haven't had a problem and I even camped in a field on my last tour where the next morning the fly was covered in dew on the outside.I don't like the sound of the policies of your local sports stores that one in particular(and I would not buy from him either but you might try setting it up again in the store lol)that was not my experience with a local backpacking/camping specialty store when attempting to return a bag to TNF for repair as I mentioned before.Most of the large chain stores do have fairly liberal return policies I have had good luck with The Sports Authority in this regard even without a receipt they will usually give you store credit although the quality of their prducts and knowledge often leaves something to be desired..

It was probably the greater use of mesh that gave you the sense of less durable materials



My decision the greater mesh and freestanding capabilities won out over the lower price,less weight and more roominess but of course the SD tent has long been popular with long distance hikers so you can't go wrong there either.


How tall are you?

I'm 5'8" tall barefooted. That's 68" and the length of the tent is 78". If I lay with my feet pointing straight up I will have 5" between my feet and the wall and 5" between my head and the wall. Now when I let my feet fall to their natural position when laying on my back I am now taking up about 72" to 74". Add to that the additional material from a sleeping bag and I could easily end up with one or both ends of the sleeping bag against the mesh walls.

Have you encountered any of these issues? If I sleep with my feet against the mesh do you think it will eventually damage it?

Now all of the above is assuming that I sleep straight in the tent. The few times I laid in the tent diagonally I had more foot and head room but it seemed like the tent walls were a right above my face. Of course that is why I probably need to bring the Tadpole home and try them out side by side.

Good question I am 5'11" and usually sleep on my side with one foot stretched out about 5" so that calculates to 76" leaving 2" to spare.I don't seem to have an issue hitting the walls but I think the back edges of the tent are somewhat curved and flexable as opposed to real taunt (particularly if not staked and tied down).I will say the tent is compact enough someone much taller than me would have an issue.And you should sleep with the toes at the narrow back end where there is no mesh down low I believe and the mesh entrance should be near your head.If there is any slope obviously you would want the front end higher. The mummy sleeping bag I use I sleep with my toes all the way to the end of the bag and then if it is cold cinch the hood tight around my head otherwise i think I stuff clothing etc. into the hood to use as a pillow but I don't think it extends much beyond my head.If the bag is to roomy with extra space etc. it won't be as efficient at generating holding heat so you want a snug fit.Actually in Fl. I have taken to a sheet in place of a bag to save weight/space you might be able to get by with that during the summer.You have gotten me motivated now to set up my tent to check some of this plus the dimension out as I need to re-seam seal the fly anyway which I have been putting off forever i will try to do this soon and report back lol.

Good question I am 5'11" and usually sleep on my side with one foot stretched out about 5" so that calculates to 76" leaving 2" to spare.I don't seem to have an issue hitting the walls but I think the back edges of the tent are somewhat curved and flexable as opposed to real taunt (particularly if not staked and tied down).

Hmmm.... Maybe that's how it's all working out for you. 90% of the time I sleep flat on my back.



You have gotten me motivated now to set up my tent to check some of this plus the dimension out as I need to re-seam seal the fly anyway which I have been putting off forever i will try to do this soon and report back lol.

That would be great if you have the chance to check out the dimensions on yours. It might help answer the question as to whether they changed the dimensions with the newer model. Also I seem to recall while laying flat on my back that the mesh at the foot end came down to about 4" from the ground where the bathtub type floor started. I wonder if that part has changed as well.

The large sporting goods store (Bass Pro Shop) is only about 10 minutes from my office I may just run over there at lunch and ask them to set the tent back up and throw a sleeping bag in it for me again. They said they don't mind doing it because when they did it for me the other day it attracted other customers to come over and look at the tents. LOL

Thanks for your help!

I just did a search on both tents and found the tadpole nhp at 86"x50.5"(lxw)compared to the tadpole 23 at 87"x46" contrasted to the Bass website that mentioned the dimensions you originally quoted.You may want to actually measure the dimensions when you visit them.All the links I found people really liked the tent but for both the consensus was those over 6'need not apply here are the links:
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/review/00000962
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/review/00000961
http://www.backcountrystore.com/store/TNF0402.html
I still plan to check mine later this afternoon to confirm though(and seam seal it)

You may want to actually measure the dimensions when you visit them.

Yes I plan on doing just that.

I origionally went back to Bass Pro Shops to look at it there. After setting it up and crawling inside it was apparant that even though the tent was noticabley narrower it seemed to be almost as long as the SD tent so something may not be right in the advertisement. However, when I discussed the return policy their answers were contradictory to what I was told last week.

So I drove across town bought the Tadpole from the local sporting goods store. I told the manager that I had already purchased the SD tent and that I planned on setting them both up in my living room to compare them. She told me that it would not be a problem and that they would give me a full refund if I returned it.

While there I also discussed the warranty policy with her. She told me that they definatly would go to bat for their customers and that they were not having any troubles dealing with TNF customer service. Since this came from the store manager I suspect that what the salesman told me was incorrect. Also because of a special they were running I was given a gift card that gives me $25.00 off any purchase after April 1st. And since I'll need other gear that will be a help.

Now that the warranty and return issues have been clarified and seem to be equal to that of SD, and since the overall cost of my gear will be $25.00 less because of the discount card and it will be almost as though I'm getting the TNF tent for the price of the SD tent the only issue remaining is the size of the tent.

I plan on setting them both up and putting my old sleeping bag in them and just trying them out for size just like what you described you did years ago.

I will also post the results in the event anyone else here is looking at the same two tents. Maybe between what you report from your findings as well as mine someone else can use the information.



All the links I found people really liked the tent but for both the consensus was those over 6'need not apply here are the links:
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/review/00000962
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/review/00000961
http://www.backcountrystore.com/store/TNF0402.html
I still plan to check mine later this afternoon to confirm though(and seam seal it)


Those were the links I had found also and while they were all positive I was a little worried because they were so few when compared to the SD Clip Flashlight CD. http://www.outdoorreview.com/pscOutdoor,Equipment/Backpacking,Camping,Hiking/Tents/Sierra%20Designs,Clip,Flashlight,2CD/PRD_76714_2955crx.aspx
However at the time I didn't realize that the Tadpole had been discontinued for quite a few years and was just put back into production in 2003.

Anyway thanks for all your input. I'll report my findings later.

I just did a search on both tents and found the tadpole nhp at 86"x50.5"(lxw)compared to the tadpole 23 at 87"x46" contrasted to the Bass website that mentioned the dimensions you originally quoted.You may want to actually measure the dimensions when you visit them.


Update

The TNF Tadpole 23.
Dimensions printed on box: 87" x 46"
My own measurements: 83" x 49"

It actually measured 87" from the front to the back at the floor but I arrived at the length of 83" because I was measureing usable space accounting for the angle of the wall. 49" Was the widest point of the tent that I measured where poles were pulling the tent tight so their measurement of 46" is more realistic.

One advantage that the Tadpole had was that the ceiling height was higher over a larger part of the tent when compared to the Clip Flashlight CD. In the Clip Flashlight CD. I could only sit up at the door end of the tent but in the Tadpole I could actually lay with my head at the foot end and sit up without my head hitting the ceiling. I think that this will give me a little more freedom to move around in the tent. I think it might also help it to be a little less claustrophobic if i were to have to stay in it for a prolonged period such as sitting out a storm.

I also agree with you that the abundance of mesh especially on the ceiling makes the tent to not seem so small.

The Tadpole has a bathtub type floor while the Clip Flashlight has seams right at ground level although I don't recall reading any reviews that said this was an issue.

The Tadpole had one other slight advantage over the Clip Flashlight CD.. A lot of the reviews I read on the Clip Flashlight CD. mentioned that when you open the rain fly zipper all the way up that rain dump right into the door. They all suggested that to avoid this you needed to only open it half way and crawl out. On the Tadpole it appears you can unzip it up to three quarters of the way before it is over the door entrance plus the vestibule is longer so you should have a little easier time getting in and out during a downpore without drenching the tent.

When comparing the two I still felt that the Clip Flashlight CD was made from slightly higher quality material. I also found a seam on the Tadpole that was not sewn up straight but I don't know if it will affect the of the structure.

I think that either tent will work for my purposes. Since the Tadpole is freestanding I believe it will offer a little more versitility. However,the tradeoff is that it weighs a half a pound more than the Clip Flashlight CD.

I don't recall spending this much time when I picked out my house! Of course weight wasn't a factor when I bought it! :D